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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by MARTY on April 29, 2006, at 23:22:45
In reply to PARNATE BIPOLAR 2: Agressive mood, tears !?, posted by MARTY on April 29, 2006, at 23:14:23
I'm doing my best to bring you the best head problems possible.. just for your entertainment!
;) ok, well your brains on my case would be very much appreciate. I'm sorry to ask ..Marty
Posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2006, at 23:45:16
In reply to WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by MARTY on April 29, 2006, at 23:22:45
Marty is parnate okay with bipolar? Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on April 30, 2006, at 0:06:48
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC » MARTY, posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2006, at 23:45:16
You've been through a lot lately Marty. How long ago since you started Nardil withdrawl?
Don't know what to say. You could keep the parnate on the lower side of things, and see if the Lamictal doesn't offer a little more eveness.
Sometimes on and off MAOI's can cause swinging. I know a lot of people who have had significant mood fluctuations after stopping one MAOI.
Go with your gut, try to make decisions based on your long term behavior.
Take Care
Linkadge
Posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 2:23:51
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC » MARTY, posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2006, at 23:45:16
Hey Phillipa, How are you ?
Well, I dont know! I know MAOI's are suppose to be safe with Bipolars, but is Parnate gives some troubles to some of them? I can't find any info about that. Are you Bipolar Phillipa ? I invite you to babblemail me, I'd like to know more about you..
Marty
> Marty is parnate okay with bipolar? Love Phillipa
Posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 2:36:48
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by linkadge on April 30, 2006, at 0:06:48
Thanks for answering my request for help Link
> You've been through a lot lately Marty. How long ago since you started Nardil withdrawl?
Not sure .. hum I would say 18 days ? The withdrawal isn't over since if I stop Parnate the Nardil withdrawal come's back very quickly.
But let's say that Parnate as much as it 'saves' me the full withdrawal, it is also extending it.> Don't know what to say. You could keep the parnate on the lower side of things, and see if the Lamictal doesn't offer a little more eveness.
Well, I've got a problem with the Lamictal. My gen. doc has called me lately about the results of a blood test to tell my my liver enzyme level what the double of the normals. This is sure caused by Lamictal, whose's a anticonvulsant before everything else. So my Pdoc called another blood test to determine if I could stay on Lamictal... is sounds like a very bad idea to stop it while I'm not sure if Parnate gives me hypomaniac symptoms...
> Sometimes on and off MAOI's can cause swinging. I know a lot of people who have had significant mood fluctuations after stopping one MAOI.
Ahh didn't hear about that. I known every meds change was playing with your mind and mood, but didn't know MAOI was one of the worst in that regards.. being Bipolar 2, I'm sure to be even more sensible to those disturbance.
> Go with your gut, try to make decisions based on your long term behavior.
Well, I really want to go the farther I can on Parnate. Even if there is small hope that my mood probleme could be fix by the real/full effect of Parnate when it will kick.
I was thinking about adding a LITTLE dose of Trazodone to my regimen. I know that is it good for agressive mood and it would help balance the dopamine/NE vs serotonin which can potentially help for the unsocial/tearing part .. (oh and could also be good for sexual life)
I'd love to know what you think about that idea, doesn't it make sense to you ? do you see any reason why I should try this ? Another cocktail addition idea ?
Marty, The Mighty ;)
> Take Care
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> Linkadge
>
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Posted by SLS on April 30, 2006, at 8:36:44
In reply to PARNATE BIPOLAR 2: Agressive mood, tears !?, posted by MARTY on April 29, 2006, at 23:14:23
I'm not sure it makes sense to "fix" the problem just yet. There may be no problem to fix. If things are truly unbearable, I think a benzodiazepine or a drug like Zyprexa can be used temporarily. If it is bearable, I would ride it out. What you are experiencing now might not be an indicator of things to come, but, rather, a startup effect, possibly made worse with Nardil withdrawal. It is hard to say. If your concern is a bipolar switch, I would opt for Zyprexa. Lamictal is not much good at treating mania.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on April 30, 2006, at 8:52:49
In reply to Re: PARNATE BIPOLAR 2: Agressive mood, tears !? » MARTY, posted by SLS on April 30, 2006, at 8:36:44
> I think a benzodiazepine or a drug like Zyprexa can be used temporarily.
I'm thinking that the benzodiazepine might not be such a great idea afterall. It might cause a sort of disinhibition that would allow for more aggressive feelings and impulsive acts. I guess it depends on how you have reacted to them in the past.
What do you have laying around to work with?
- Scott
Posted by willyee on April 30, 2006, at 10:51:34
In reply to PARNATE BIPOLAR 2: Agressive mood, tears !?, posted by MARTY on April 29, 2006, at 23:14:23
Dont feel alone,its as if someone changed my parnate,never in the past years taking parnate have i felt so unsocial,so emotional,i was never one to feel self pity and latly i feel sorry for myself all the time,parnate used to act as a shield at the least i knew a 40 mg dose of parnate would keep me stable,now its as if the drug is worsening my condtions,i know its time to get off it,but to where,to what,god my first experiacne with this drug was so different,i just cant understand it,i mean even klonopin to this day still has the same effect on me,nothings changed,yet parnate for ME has turned itno a comtply different drug,im so dissapointed.
Posted by linkadge on April 30, 2006, at 12:18:50
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC » linkadge, posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 2:36:48
Yeah, if the liver's the problem, you could cautiously try lithium instead of lamictal. It has AD effects too, and should leave your liver alone.
Linkadge
Posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 14:29:39
In reply to Re: PARNATE BIPOLAR 2: Agressive mood, tears !? » MARTY, posted by SLS on April 30, 2006, at 8:36:44
Hi Scott> I'm not sure it makes sense to "fix" the problem just yet. There may be no problem to fix. If things are truly unbearable, I think a benzodiazepine or a drug like Zyprexa can be used temporarily.
So you think it can go away when Parnate will kick in, ok. That would be good! Do you think increasing Risperdal could do the trick ? Zyprexa makes me VERY anxious. I just can't take it.
BTW, do you think it could be relate to my liver problems ? I have twice the normal level of liver enzymes level (due to Lamictal we guess) and also, just to specify, I'll be soon operate for gallstone (gallblader removal) which is intimely relate to the liver...
Marty
Posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 14:33:24
In reply to Re: PARNATE BIPOLAR 2: Agressive mood, tears !?, posted by willyee on April 30, 2006, at 10:51:34
I'm very sorry for you Willyee. It way worst than my situation since you was already relying of than med. I wish for you that the effects you are looking for in Parnate will come back soon. Don't loose faith.. maybe your body is having difficulties with something that affect your metabolism of Parnate or whatever .. have you though about restarting it ? maybe you should do that before anything else.Marty
> Dont feel alone,its as if someone changed my parnate,never in the past years taking parnate have i felt so unsocial,so emotional,i was never one to feel self pity and latly i feel sorry for myself all the time,parnate used to act as a shield at the least i knew a 40 mg dose of parnate would keep me stable,now its as if the drug is worsening my condtions,i know its time to get off it,but to where,to what,god my first experiacne with this drug was so different,i just cant understand it,i mean even klonopin to this day still has the same effect on me,nothings changed,yet parnate for ME has turned itno a comtply different drug,im so dissapointed.
Posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 14:54:31
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by linkadge on April 30, 2006, at 12:18:50
> Yeah, if the liver's the problem, you could cautiously try lithium instead of lamictal. It has AD effects too, and should leave your liver alone.
That would be a good thing to do, but I can't support Lithium.. it gives me pain in every single articulation. My hands hurt a lot and I am a software engineer.. so :S
Marty
Posted by linkadge on April 30, 2006, at 16:03:56
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC » linkadge, posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 14:54:31
Have you tried taurine ? I know it is an alternative supplement, but many people use it quite sucessfully in applications responding to anticonvulsants.
It has anticonvulsant and mood stabilizing properties. I don't know how it is metabilized, but I would imagine it would pose much less toxicity than lamotrigine.
It might be worth thinking about. It may allow you to reduce the lamictal.
Linkadge
Posted by tygereyes on April 30, 2006, at 21:23:05
In reply to PARNATE BIPOLAR 2: Agressive mood, tears !?, posted by MARTY on April 29, 2006, at 23:14:23
Though I might or might not be bipolar (currently, the Axis I dx is "mood disorder NOS") I TOO EXPERIENCED CRYING EPISODES ON PARNATE! It was so weird I never thought to bring it up - but all of a sudden, I'd be sitting on the bus and think of something sad and get that lump in my throat and tears in my eyes. And this happened ALL THE TIME. Sitting in the movies watching a PREVIEW, for god's sake! A preview about a stupid sports team winning a championship!
It's something that happens to me when I'm at "baseline" but has NEVER happened to me on other, more numbing AD's. Strange since I experienced such a profound euphoria with this drug, too.
> I've been diagnosed Bipolar type 2 and right now I'm in my first week of Parnate 10mg x 3.
> And I got those moods where I feel agressive, irritable and don't care at all about what people says, and I sometime feel Unsocial, which has never happen to me.
>
> There is also some tearing for nothing that happens randomly. Sometimes I will hear people argue a little, not even a real fight, and I have this fealing that some tears will (and sometimes do) drop.
>
> Is there a link with my bipolarity 2 ? Never experience something like that before.
>
> Is there anything I could try, appart benzos, that could help with the mood disturbance ? I barely can increase my Risperdal and my Lamictal for some reasons. I though about catapres, but my Pdoc didn't think it was a good idea.
>
> Hope you got some ideas, Parnate is the last AD worth trying for me and I already took risks and put some energy just to be able to start the treatment...
>
> HeLp!
>
> Marty
>
>
Posted by willyee on April 30, 2006, at 21:29:53
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by linkadge on April 30, 2006, at 16:03:56
Taurine also has a great synergy with benzos,personaly i found it can in some meaning me lower the dose of a benzo needed.Again i am doing my best with the use of a little klonopin and a little xanax rather than a larger dose of either alone,i think xanax and klonopin seem to be most effective but one lacks something the other doesent and using them both in moderation always works best for me.
Posted by tygereyes on April 30, 2006, at 23:26:30
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by willyee on April 30, 2006, at 21:29:53
Taurine? As in, the ingredient found in Red Bull?
> Taurine also has a great synergy with benzos,personaly i found it can in some meaning me lower the dose of a benzo needed.Again i am doing my best with the use of a little klonopin and a little xanax rather than a larger dose of either alone,i think xanax and klonopin seem to be most effective but one lacks something the other doesent and using them both in moderation always works best for me.
Posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2006, at 23:34:46
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by tygereyes on April 30, 2006, at 23:26:30
No it aids in realaxtion like a benzo but from a health food store Love Phillipa
Posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 23:41:12
In reply to Re: PARNATE BIPOLAR 2: Agressive mood, tears !?, posted by tygereyes on April 30, 2006, at 21:23:05
Hey Hi TigerWell.. Welcome in the free tears club :) This is so funny cause me too had tears seeing a preview at cinema.. What would it be if we would have an heartbreak ? lol What about your plan to return to Parnate, are you back on it ?
Marty
> Though I might or might not be bipolar (currently, the Axis I dx is "mood disorder NOS") I TOO EXPERIENCED CRYING EPISODES ON PARNATE! It was so weird I never thought to bring it up - but all of a sudden, I'd be sitting on the bus and think of something sad and get that lump in my throat and tears in my eyes. And this happened ALL THE TIME. Sitting in the movies watching a PREVIEW, for god's sake! A preview about a stupid sports team winning a championship!
>
> It's something that happens to me when I'm at "baseline" but has NEVER happened to me on other, more numbing AD's. Strange since I experienced such a profound euphoria with this drug, too.
>
>
> > I've been diagnosed Bipolar type 2 and right now I'm in my first week of Parnate 10mg x 3.
> > And I got those moods where I feel agressive, irritable and don't care at all about what people says, and I sometime feel Unsocial, which has never happen to me.
> >
> > There is also some tearing for nothing that happens randomly. Sometimes I will hear people argue a little, not even a real fight, and I have this fealing that some tears will (and sometimes do) drop.
> >
> > Is there a link with my bipolarity 2 ? Never experience something like that before.
> >
> > Is there anything I could try, appart benzos, that could help with the mood disturbance ? I barely can increase my Risperdal and my Lamictal for some reasons. I though about catapres, but my Pdoc didn't think it was a good idea.
> >
> > Hope you got some ideas, Parnate is the last AD worth trying for me and I already took risks and put some energy just to be able to start the treatment...
> >
> > HeLp!
> >
> > Marty
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 23:43:47
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by willyee on April 30, 2006, at 21:29:53
Thanks to everyone who pointed me to Taurine.I know NOTHING about it at this time.. I'll do my homework and come back with something worth saying :P sounds interesting
Would be great to be able to diminish doses of some of my meds.
Marty
Posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2006, at 23:45:42
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 23:43:47
Post on alternative or google vitaminshoppe spelled that way. Love Phillipa
Posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 23:45:46
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by tygereyes on April 30, 2006, at 23:26:30
> Taurine? As in, the ingredient found in Red Bull?
Actually Yes :P This is one of the thing I've found so far. You can look on Wikipedia for a confirmation of this.
Marty
Posted by tygereyes on May 1, 2006, at 0:09:37
In reply to Re: PARNATE BIPOLAR 2: Agressive mood, tears !? » tygereyes, posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 23:41:12
Since I had such problems with Parnate, I think I'm going to try EMSAM. I don't really have much faith in meds anymore but at least it will soften the edges.
Sorry you're having so much trouble with Parnate. I've found it to be a really interesting, unique drug - it has so many benefits and, it seems, so many downsides, too. Trileptal might help with the aggressiveness - not sure about the spontaneous tears. I do know that when I was on Seroquel + Trileptal + Desipramine I did not have these crying episodes and I would say that it was probably the Trileptal that stabilized me, as Desipramine only made me irritable and I was on a low dose of Seroquel (25 mgs) for sleep.
>
> Hey Hi Tiger
>
> Well.. Welcome in the free tears club :) This is so funny cause me too had tears seeing a preview at cinema.. What would it be if we would have an heartbreak ? lol What about your plan to return to Parnate, are you back on it ?
>
> Marty
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Though I might or might not be bipolar (currently, the Axis I dx is "mood disorder NOS") I TOO EXPERIENCED CRYING EPISODES ON PARNATE! It was so weird I never thought to bring it up - but all of a sudden, I'd be sitting on the bus and think of something sad and get that lump in my throat and tears in my eyes. And this happened ALL THE TIME. Sitting in the movies watching a PREVIEW, for god's sake! A preview about a stupid sports team winning a championship!
> >
> > It's something that happens to me when I'm at "baseline" but has NEVER happened to me on other, more numbing AD's. Strange since I experienced such a profound euphoria with this drug, too.
> >
> >
> > > I've been diagnosed Bipolar type 2 and right now I'm in my first week of Parnate 10mg x 3.
> > > And I got those moods where I feel agressive, irritable and don't care at all about what people says, and I sometime feel Unsocial, which has never happen to me.
> > >
> > > There is also some tearing for nothing that happens randomly. Sometimes I will hear people argue a little, not even a real fight, and I have this fealing that some tears will (and sometimes do) drop.
> > >
> > > Is there a link with my bipolarity 2 ? Never experience something like that before.
> > >
> > > Is there anything I could try, appart benzos, that could help with the mood disturbance ? I barely can increase my Risperdal and my Lamictal for some reasons. I though about catapres, but my Pdoc didn't think it was a good idea.
> > >
> > > Hope you got some ideas, Parnate is the last AD worth trying for me and I already took risks and put some energy just to be able to start the treatment...
> > >
> > > HeLp!
> > >
> > > Marty
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by tygereyes on May 1, 2006, at 0:14:11
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC » tygereyes, posted by MARTY on April 30, 2006, at 23:45:46
also ... don't ever stop a MAOI cold turkey! ESPECIALLY Parnate. TAPER TAPER TAPER!
<< http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1188476 >>
<< http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3183078&dopt=Citation >>
Posted by willyee on May 1, 2006, at 6:30:33
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by tygereyes on April 30, 2006, at 23:26:30
> Taurine? As in, the ingredient found in Red Bull?
>
> > Taurine also has a great synergy with benzos,personaly i found it can in some meaning me lower the dose of a benzo needed.Again i am doing my best with the use of a little klonopin and a little xanax rather than a larger dose of either alone,i think xanax and klonopin seem to be most effective but one lacks something the other doesent and using them both in moderation always works best for me.
>
>Yess it is found in Redbull,but not for stimualtive properties.First redbull is PACKED with psycho stimulants the caffiene alone is enough to skyrocket somepeople,....the addition of taurine is like how people add redbull to alcholic drinks,its to get the speed benifit of the drink,while mainting some form of calm,so taurine in the drink is what is put there to counter act some of the stimulants of the drink so u dont go nuts.
Also taurine is considered a SMART NUTRIENT,reason being the stablizing effects it is to have on the electircal over acitivity in the brain is supposed to creat a clear headed calm,so u think more clearly.People hear taurine in redbull and think its like caffiene,taurine is a INHIBTORY amino,it surpress not excites,and some claim in the same way dilantin did that this calming of the racing mind helps one think smoother and clearer,thats why redbull is a mind/body drink.
Kinda follows a trend that any good stimulant works better in conjuntion with some form of sedative.
Posted by Phillipa on May 1, 2006, at 17:52:41
In reply to Re: WANTED! - SLS, LINKADGE, ED_UK, MED_EMPOWERED ETC, posted by willyee on May 1, 2006, at 6:30:33
Willyee you're right. It's not stimulating my first thought when I saw it was in redbull. Stopped by the health food store today and they reassured me it is calming. It has something to do with glutamate too but the technicle stuff I don't understand. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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