![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on April 26, 2006, at 6:29:28
One thing im noticing in these posts are people who either start are on just starting MAOIS.
One thing i notice is the strong desire to NOT use benzos.
Hmmm just my opinion here,but personaly i foud benzos actualy HELPED augment my parnate many many times.
Sometimes my brain just dident want anymore parnate,and instead the addition of xanax or klonopin OVER parnate was tremondous,like water and bread.My view is MAOIS are raising i cant spell it here.......the cathclomines,.Dopamine,epderidine,..etc.
HOWEVER to what degree? There is no testing or anything,i think a benzo us perfect when u feel agitation ,anxiety,depression,low mood on ur maoi,it ***could**** be possable the maoi has built over too much activity in the brain and a benzo not only helps with gana but also moderates a lot of nerve activiy in the brain,simply raising gaba is over rated,that is why meds like gabatril and eve otc l -theanine arent grade A choices in fast effective relieaf.
Benzos do a lot more than simply raise gaba,the only other thing i find that can hold a light to a benzo believe it or not is over the counter amino acid Taurine which aids in gaba production but also plays a big rold in overalll nerve activity and moderation ,meaing it try to control over firing neurons.This is not just me yapping do a google search on taurine in the brain and u might be surprised what a profile thins simple cheap amino acid has.
Anyway point is i think people trying for example EMSAM and NOT using a benzo as much as they should MIGHT be cheating themselves out of a lot of benifit,let the benzo do its job of calming ,and let the anti depreessant do its job of lifting ur mood.
Just my two cents,i know id never been able to use parnate on a daily baisis without a benzo,the additioon of a benzo somewhere in my parnate use is A MUST,this is until i feel otherwise which i dont.
Posted by Crazy Horse on April 26, 2006, at 7:00:00
In reply to Maois.. Benzos, posted by willyee on April 26, 2006, at 6:29:28
> One thing im noticing in these posts are people who either start are on just starting MAOIS.
>
> One thing i notice is the strong desire to NOT use benzos.
>
>
> Hmmm just my opinion here,but personaly i foud benzos actualy HELPED augment my parnate many many times.
>
>
> Sometimes my brain just dident want anymore parnate,and instead the addition of xanax or klonopin OVER parnate was tremondous,like water and bread.
>
>
>
> My view is MAOIS are raising i cant spell it here.......the cathclomines,.Dopamine,epderidine,..etc.
>
>
> HOWEVER to what degree? There is no testing or anything,i think a benzo us perfect when u feel agitation ,anxiety,depression,low mood on ur maoi,it ***could**** be possable the maoi has built over too much activity in the brain and a benzo not only helps with gana but also moderates a lot of nerve activiy in the brain,simply raising gaba is over rated,that is why meds like gabatril and eve otc l -theanine arent grade A choices in fast effective relieaf.
>
>
> Benzos do a lot more than simply raise gaba,the only other thing i find that can hold a light to a benzo believe it or not is over the counter amino acid Taurine which aids in gaba production but also plays a big rold in overalll nerve activity and moderation ,meaing it try to control over firing neurons.This is not just me yapping do a google search on taurine in the brain and u might be surprised what a profile thins simple cheap amino acid has.
>
>
> Anyway point is i think people trying for example EMSAM and NOT using a benzo as much as they should MIGHT be cheating themselves out of a lot of benifit,let the benzo do its job of calming ,and let the anti depreessant do its job of lifting ur mood.
>
>
> Just my two cents,i know id never been able to use parnate on a daily baisis without a benzo,the additioon of a benzo somewhere in my parnate use is A MUST,this is until i feel otherwise which i dont.FOR ME, Parnate wipes out my anxiety, and i had some pretty intense anxiety before parnate kicked in. I was using a lot of ativan (the benzo that worked best for me, i tried em all) sometimes i would take as much as 12 mgs. a day...this after being on the drug for 20 years. When parnate kicked in, i noticed i started to forget taking my Ativan...i was dependent on it so i needed it for that reason, but i did not need it for anxiety any longer. Parnate lifts my depression and keeps me calm at the same time...dif strokes for dif folks! I'm now down to only 2 mgs. Ativan daily, and will continue to taper it..why take it if i don't need it . Also, benzos for me worsen my depression-especially at the high dose i was on. Anyway..we are all different, this is what works for me.
Monte
Posted by willyee on April 26, 2006, at 8:33:57
In reply to Re: Maois.. Benzos » willyee, posted by Crazy Horse on April 26, 2006, at 7:00:00
I cant imagine being on such a dose of ativan or any benzo,i know parnate def keeps me from having problems with a benzo,the 5 years ive been on it ive been on the same dose of klonopin since the first day i took parnate.
I may have a bad day or situation,but on average my benzo KLONOPIN ranges from 0.25 to 1 mg a day on a bad day,and never went higher than this in 5 years.
I remeber in ER well after a doc i saw for "the moment" suggested i was underuising klonopin and wanted to write me 2 mg a day klono with depakote,WITHOUT knowing i was on parnate,WOW this guy must have wanted me to be a zombie.
Anyway i doubt ill ever know if klonopin is worsening my anxiety since i had it before i started,all i do know is one or two people with out clinical anxiety who took it for a few months and stopped it almost on a dime.
Posted by valene on April 26, 2006, at 8:39:22
In reply to Maois.. Benzos, posted by willyee on April 26, 2006, at 6:29:28
Monte,
So do you think that the EMSAM patch could help me in reducing my xanax? I hope so. I am taking 1.5, sometimes more per day and have been for over 20 years. I had a horrible time tapering down from 3mg. xanax. I am desperate for help since the benzo is depressing and tapering off it is *hell*.So is it possible that if I went on the EMSAM patch I could get rid of the xanax? That would be a miracle, something to help my depression *and* anxiety. I wish I had never taken the first benzo. I was worried that EMSAM would be too stimulating?
Cheers,
Val
Posted by valene on April 26, 2006, at 9:16:51
In reply to Re: Maois.. Benzos » willyee, posted by valene on April 26, 2006, at 8:39:22
Posted by Crazy Horse on April 26, 2006, at 9:57:02
In reply to Re: Maois.. Benzos » willyee, posted by valene on April 26, 2006, at 8:39:22
> Monte,
> So do you think that the EMSAM patch could help me in reducing my xanax? I hope so. I am taking 1.5, sometimes more per day and have been for over 20 years. I had a horrible time tapering down from 3mg. xanax. I am desperate for help since the benzo is depressing and tapering off it is *hell*.
>
> So is it possible that if I went on the EMSAM patch I could get rid of the xanax? That would be a miracle, something to help my depression *and* anxiety. I wish I had never taken the first benzo. I was worried that EMSAM would be too stimulating?
>
> Cheers,
> ValI wish i could say yes, but honestly i'm not sure, as i don't know that much about EMSAM. As i'm sure you are aware of, Robert is doing very well on EMSAM and has had a big reduction in anxiety...so it's very possible you could also. :) I agree with you about Benzos and yes they are hell to get off of, especially after 20 years like you and i. I taper my ativan very slowly about 1/2 mg. per 1 or 2 weeks, and i'm sure that it'll get harder now that i'm down to 2 mgs. daily. I'm excited to be off it..first time in 20 yrs! You can do it too..just real slow..but wait until the EMSAM kicks in. I wish you the best. :)
Monte
Posted by mattw84 on April 26, 2006, at 17:42:25
In reply to Maois.. Benzos, posted by willyee on April 26, 2006, at 6:29:28
Willy,
I agree (I think), benzos are a great class of drugs and definately have a bad wrap. Largely because of a couple well known family members: Xanax & Valium. For some reason doctors often shy away or use benzos only as a last resort simply because of the reputation they have. I have taken almost all types of benzos and at many varying doses. 120mg Valium, 12 mg Klonopin, 10mg Xanax, etc. . . And yes, I know these are high doses, which makes it even harder to find a doctor comfortable with writing the Rx. Bottom line, I have tried SSRIs, SNRIs, HCAs, TCAs, APs, MAOIs, Beta Blockers, etc. . . All have paled by comparison.
At my current combo, 4mg klonopin at bedtime with 2 mg Xanax 3x a day. I am more functional than ever before. I think some folks who are spending hundreds of extra bucks on this EMSAM may just be throwing it away when there is a very viable and effective alternative already available. The only problem is getting it Rx'd.
That's my 2 cents. . .
Regards,Matt
Posted by Phillipa on April 26, 2006, at 19:31:32
In reply to Re: Maois.. Benzos » willyee, posted by mattw84 on April 26, 2006, at 17:42:25
Matt you already know how I feel about the benzos. If you have time how about a quick E-mail on ENSAM. Thenks Phillipa
Posted by mattw84 on April 26, 2006, at 22:55:09
In reply to Re: Maois.. Benzos » mattw84, posted by Phillipa on April 26, 2006, at 19:31:32
"Since the mechanisms of these reactions are not fully understood, it seems prudent, in general, to avoid this combination of ELDEPRYL and tricyclic antidepressants as well as ELDEPRYL and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. At least 14 days should elapse between discontinuation of ELDEPRYL and initiation of treatment with a tricyclic antidepressant or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Because of the long half-lives of fluoxetine and its active metabolite, at least five weeks (perhaps longer, especially if fluoxetine has been prescribed chronically and/or at higher doses) should elapse between discontinuation of fluoxetine and initiation of treatment with ELDEPRYL."
*Note that Eldepryl = PO Emsam. . .
Posted by willyee on April 27, 2006, at 6:47:37
In reply to Re: Maois.. Benzos » willyee, posted by mattw84 on April 26, 2006, at 17:42:25
I wasnt discouraging the use of anti depressants like emsam for example,i just personaly dont see why when someone is on one they feel so ABDAMENT to get off there benzo.
Why,because were told benzos are addicting and Anti depressants arent,it is way to early to even know if thats true,and truth is most people in the same way of benzos once they start anti depressant therapy and allow a second med to be tried dont usualy turn back either.My point is i wouldent be too concerned about elimnating the benzos until ur sure it cant actualy help ur anti depressant work,but like the other poster every is different and some people really hate benzos they cant tolerate them,i feel that way about many of these drugs,almost all actualy,hmm im on them why again?Oh i cant get off right!
Posted by MARTY on April 27, 2006, at 20:09:36
In reply to Re: Maois.. Benzos, posted by willyee on April 27, 2006, at 6:47:37
HiBefore I start: Benzo already saved my life, they saved many life, they are a great to-have in the psychiatry toolbox and they allow a lot of people to live nearly normal life. If tomorow the FDA decided to retire the benzo off the market I would fight for the people who needs them. ....
... BUT ...
Unlike many meds that can do benzos jobs, benzos tend to put a veil between you and the reality. Because of the way they shield from anxiety, they are also shielding from emotions in general; love, passion, sex, food taste or even the feelings you can get when seeing a movie..
Benzos are like a double-edged sword. They could help forever but from time to time (more often than we usually think) they bring the users in one of the worst possible depression.Imagine you are in a major depression and are suicidal, so you go to the ER.. they 'examine' you then find out that your benzo is likely the biggest factor of your depression. So they put you off the benzo and you are in for a major depression + nightmarish withdrawal.. a very efficient combo.
So, for me, benzos are only for short period of time like a withdrawal or a more difficult moment.
If I would be put on another benzo for long term, it would not be Clonazepam.. it is the worst for inducing depression.Marty
Posted by Don_Bristol on April 28, 2006, at 0:31:39
In reply to Re: Maois.. Benzos » willyee, posted by Crazy Horse on April 26, 2006, at 7:00:00
> FOR ME, Parnate wipes out my anxiety, and i had
> some pretty intense anxiety before parnate
> kicked in.I find the same. Parnate addressed my anxiety even though it is a distinctly energising medication and might have been expected to make me extra anxious. In truth the opposite happened.
I took 30mg Parnate before I noticed this. i am on 50mg now.
What dose do you take?
I would be interested to know.
Don
Posted by Don_Bristol on April 28, 2006, at 0:37:50
In reply to Maois.. Benzos, posted by willyee on April 26, 2006, at 6:29:28
I am with you on this one, Willyee.
Benzos work well. I take them with Parnate and I havenever had any trouble but I do find they can be useful. As it happend I do not feel the need to take a benzo each day but if I did feel that need then I would go ahead and take the benzos.
I think the docs are deliberately trying to move to the non-benzo meds like zolpidem & zopliclone for sleep and that Buspar for generalized Anxiety which takes a couple of weeks to work.
I think some people are ok with benzos and never get hooked and get a good response while others get hooked quickly and have a declining response.
Don
Posted by Crazy Horse on April 28, 2006, at 8:49:23
In reply to Re: Maois.. Benzos » Crazy Horse, posted by Don_Bristol on April 28, 2006, at 0:31:39
> > FOR ME, Parnate wipes out my anxiety, and i had
> > some pretty intense anxiety before parnate
> > kicked in.
>
> I find the same. Parnate addressed my anxiety even though it is a distinctly energising medication and might have been expected to make me extra anxious. In truth the opposite happened.
>
> I took 30mg Parnate before I noticed this. i am on 50mg now.
>
> What dose do you take?
>
> I would be interested to know.
>
> DonAre you sitting down? :) I take a high dose 150 mgs. split 3 times a day. Reason for this? I'm TR(treatment resistent) and have always needed high dose everything. My pdoc thinks i'm a "poor absorber" of meds. Also, my Doc and i both believe in high dose Parnate...check out some of the old threads, if i get some articles/reports i'll send them your way. Have a nice day! :)
Monte
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.