![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on April 6, 2006, at 21:22:03
In reply to MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by JaclinHyde on April 6, 2006, at 21:03:39
If you're going to take an MAOI more reason for the patch. Love Phillipa
Posted by tygereyes on April 6, 2006, at 21:47:51
In reply to MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by JaclinHyde on April 6, 2006, at 21:03:39
> Here is the latest update that I could find for an MAOI list. It is from psycom.net
>
> FOODS and DRUGS to TOTALLY AVOID> Raisin and other dried fruits
I've eaten raisins on Parnate with no problem.
>> Overripe fruits especially bananas and avocadoes
I've also had two bananas in one sitting with no problem.
>
> Aged cheeses such as cheddar, Parmesan, Blue, Gruyere. (The following cheeses are OK: cream, cottage, farmer, process American, ricotta, Cheez-Wiz)Mozzarella is okay, too. I've had pizza many, many times without the slightest hint of a crisis.
>> Frozen yogurt (regular yogurt is OK until the expiration date)
Had frozen yogurt without a problem, too.
>
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 6, 2006, at 22:49:57
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05 » JaclinHyde, posted by Phillipa on April 6, 2006, at 21:22:03
I hope you are right but from what I have read the only time you can avoid the food/drug list is if you are taking the lowest dose. And the lowest dose doesn't seem to help people with depression/anxiety judging by the use of L-Deprenyl (selegiline) as a trial for it over the years. It has been used successfully for early Parkinson's disease.
I'm crossing my fingers though!
JH
Posted by gardenergirl on April 7, 2006, at 0:04:44
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by tygereyes on April 6, 2006, at 21:47:51
I appreciate you posting this. There are a lot of lists out there, and also all the anectdotes here, so it can be confusing.
This list doesn't seem to be very different from others I've seen that were established after the 1996 study (I believe, and I forget the name, although someone just referred to it in another thread), that actually measured tyramine in foods and cleared some foods off the original list. Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks identical to the one I started with when I first began Nardil about two and a half years ago.
I tend to eat a lot of chocolate in one sitting (darn those Nardil carb cravings!)without tyramine reactions, although admittedly it's not European chocolate.
I drink a fair amount of caffeine, usually about 4 cups of coffee worth. This was actually "prescribed" by my pdoc to try to help with my ADHD.
I've eaten raisins and bananas, even pretty dark ones without incident. I DEFINITELY have eaten meat that's been refrigerated more than 24 hours. That one is actually new to me, come to think of it. I can't think why that would be on there.
Of course, caution and diligence about reading labels and checking for foods on the list is paramount. And I definitely followed the list to a "T" when I first started. I didn't try eating foods that had been tested okay or that many others reported were okay for at least six months, and I also quit caffeine for sometime.
Thanks again for taking the time to post this. For those who are new to MAOI's, I'm sure it will help them get started safely.
gg
Posted by Caedmon on April 7, 2006, at 0:07:15
In reply to MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by JaclinHyde on April 6, 2006, at 21:03:39
Interesting; I seem to learn new things every day.
> All kinds of liver and pate
> Snails (escargot)
> Caviar,
> Pickled herring beef jerky, liver (chicken, calf and beef)Wow. Stuff I never eat! :p
> Any fish or meat that has been refrigerated for over 24-hours
This is one that people often forget about. Aged meat/dairy can include food that has aged right in your home. Careful with storage and expiration dates!
> Chinese pea pods, fava beans, Italian broad beans,
Chinese pea pods? I've never had that. Well, I've never had any of the above.
> Raisin and other dried fruits
I haven't heard this before.
> Red wine,
I hear conflicting evidence on red wine.
> Beer and ale (including alcohol free)
> Sherry
> Brandy--- including fruit brandies
> Cognac
> Liqueurs,I hear conflicting evidence on those too.
> Aged cheeses such as cheddar, Parmesan, Blue, Gruyere. (The following cheeses are OK: cream, cottage, farmer, process American, ricotta, Cheez-Wiz)
I've heard that Parmesan is sometimes okay. <shrug>
> Sour cream.
Really?
> Frozen yogurt (regular yogurt is OK until the expiration date)
Really really?
> Licorice
Really truly? :( I have to give up Twizzlers?
> Chocolate (3 oz of American chocolate is OK) European chocolate is dangerous
Hmm, I hear conflicting evidence on the chocolate thing, but moderation is probably a good idea with chocolate anyway.
>(Plain Robitussin is OK)
Specifically guaifenesin
> Amphetamines---“speed”
I believe that dextroamphetamine is sometimes used to augment partial-responders to MAOIs, although I would never use a stimulant except under close medical supervision
- C
Posted by djmmm on April 7, 2006, at 8:42:31
In reply to MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by JaclinHyde on April 6, 2006, at 21:03:39
> Here is the latest update that I could find for an MAOI list. It is from psycom.net
>
> FOODS and DRUGS to TOTALLY AVOID
> Meats and Fish
>
> Aged, pickled, and preserved meats such as pepperoni, pastrami, corned beef, beef jerky
>
> All kinds of liver and pate
>
> Snails (escargot)
>
> Caviar,
>
> Pickled herring beef jerky, liver (chicken, calf and beef)
>
> Any fish or meat that has been refrigerated for over 24-hours
>
>
> Fruits and Vegetables
>
> Chinese pea pods, fava beans, Italian broad beans,
>
> Raisin and other dried fruits
>
> Tofu, miso, sauerkraut, brewer’s yeast (bread and cake are OK)
>
> Overripe fruits especially bananas and avocadoes
>
> Canned figs
>
>
> Beverages
>
> Red wine,
>
> Beer and ale (including alcohol free)
>
> Sherry
>
> Brandy--- including fruit brandies
>
> Cognac
>
> Liqueurs,
>
> One or two drinks containing white wine, gin or vodka are OK
>
>
> Dairy Products
>
> Aged cheeses such as cheddar, Parmesan, Blue, Gruyere. (The following cheeses are OK: cream, cottage, farmer, process American, ricotta, Cheez-Wiz)
>
> Sour cream.
>
> Frozen yogurt (regular yogurt is OK until the expiration date)
>
>
> Miscellaneous
>
> Soy sauce (You may eat Chinese food, but make sure that there are no pea pods and request that soy sauce not be used)
>
> Marmite
>
> Bovril
>
> Licorice
>
> Chocolate (3 oz of American chocolate is OK) European chocolate is dangerous
>
>
> DRUGS to Avoid
>
> Demerol
>
> Cold preparations containing decongestants
>
> Cough medications containing decongestants, dextromethorphan or Demerol (Plain Robitussin is OK)
>
> Sinus medications
>
> Nose drops or nasal sprays
>
> Nasal decongestants . . . steroid sprays are OK
>
> Diet pills
>
> Amphetamines---“speed”
>
> Cocaine---“crack”
>
> NOTES
>
> Please ask your doctor or dentist to phone your psychiatrist before prescribing any medication
>
> Aspirin (plain or buffered), Tylenol, and all antibiotics are OK
>
> When you go to the dentist, you may take gas or a local anesthetic that DOES NOT CONTAIN ANY EPINIPHERINE
>
> Please phone your psychiatrist if you have any questions about this list
>
> Revised 1/29/05
>
> JH
>
>
>Although this list may be "technically" accurate (based on tyramine), it hardly represents the real world MAOI "diet."
Most of the foods listed are fine..they may contain tyramine, but NOT at a level high enough to cause a significant rise in blood pressure.
A lot of people needlessly suffer from depression, and avoid the potential benefits of MAOIs because they fear this "diet"
I urge anyone, who is considering a MAOI, to seek out accurate information regarding what foods to avoid-- based on tyramine content (or other pressors)
No aged, hard cheeses
No liver
No air-dried sausages
No sauerkraut
No soy sauce
No Fava beans (broad beans)-they contain L-DopaFWIW, the key is moderation... naturally if you consume an entire block of cheese, or actually like eating banana peels, and drinking 8oz glasses of soy sauce, or a tub of sour cream, you are going to run into problems.
Medication you must avoid vary from person to person... I have no problems taking antihistamines, afrin nasal spray, beta blockers, and many other medications... in fact there are some people who augment their MAOI with stimulants and other antidepresants.
I'm hoping that EMSAM will force the scientific community to revisit MAOIs, research, and finally produce a realistic list of food and medication to avoid.
Posted by ed_uk on April 7, 2006, at 14:25:25
In reply to MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by JaclinHyde on April 6, 2006, at 21:03:39
Hi
>When you go to the dentist, you may take gas or a local anesthetic that DOES NOT CONTAIN ANY EPINIPHERINE
There is no clinical evidence that the local anesthetic/epinephrine combinations used in dentistry interact with MAOIs.
Regards
Ed
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 7, 2006, at 18:04:18
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by gardenergirl on April 7, 2006, at 0:04:44
I drink soda all day long and am in chocolate heaven at the moment with little mini Dove singles. But that's me, ymmv.
JH
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 7, 2006, at 18:07:48
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by Caedmon on April 7, 2006, at 0:07:15
> I've heard that Parmesan is sometimes okay. <shrug>
Parmesan should be ok if you buy it off the store shelf. It is the fresh grated kind that could be a problem.
JH
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 7, 2006, at 18:13:37
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05 » JaclinHyde, posted by ed_uk on April 7, 2006, at 14:25:25
My doctor told me to avoid gettng the normal novacaine shot years ago. I have had it since without a problem.
JH
Posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2006, at 18:21:28
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05Phillipa, posted by JaclinHyde on April 6, 2006, at 22:49:57
Compare it to the other ad's isn't even the patch stronger then say a benzo too? How bad does anxiety and depression have to be to be on the patch or the real thing. I really don't know. And are the drug reps going to push this on the pdocs. They are afraid of MAOI's so why would they use the patch? I really truly dont know to compare any of it. Love Phillipa
Posted by tygereyes on April 7, 2006, at 21:05:18
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05Phillipa, posted by JaclinHyde on April 6, 2006, at 22:49:57
> I hope you are right but from what I have read the only time you can avoid the food/drug list is if you are taking the lowest dose.
Nope, I am taking 80 mgs of Parnate.
Keep in mind that everyone is different, though, and everyone reacts differently to tyramine.
Posted by fires on April 7, 2006, at 22:23:23
In reply to MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by JaclinHyde on April 6, 2006, at 21:03:39
>>Any fish or meat that has been refrigerated for over 24-hours<<
What??
>>>Licorice<<<
It's my understanding that licorice candy doesn't contain an real licorice any longer -- but don't trust my info..
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 8, 2006, at 0:30:36
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05 » JaclinHyde, posted by fires on April 7, 2006, at 22:23:23
I knew there was something I forgot to mention. The licorce that is bad for you is the old fashioned black kind. Twizzlers and the like (red shoe lace etc.) are OK.
JH
Posted by SFY on April 8, 2006, at 12:32:33
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05 » JaclinHyde, posted by fires on April 7, 2006, at 22:23:23
> >>Any fish or meat that has been refrigerated for over 24-hours<<
>
> What??The longer meat, fish, leftovers, or cold cuts are kept, the higher their tyramine level. 24 hours is probably being overly cautious but eating anything after 3 days or so might be a problem.
Posted by fires on April 8, 2006, at 17:29:34
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05 » fires, posted by SFY on April 8, 2006, at 12:32:33
> > >>Any fish or meat that has been refrigerated for over 24-hours<<
> >
> > What??
>
> The longer meat, fish, leftovers, or cold cuts are kept, the higher their tyramine level. 24 hours is probably being overly cautious but eating anything after 3 days or so might be a problem.
>Yeh, it was the 24 hrs that seemed strange. I ate foods that were refrigerated for about 48 hrs without any problems.
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 8, 2006, at 23:24:36
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05 » SFY, posted by fires on April 8, 2006, at 17:29:34
I agree, I think 24 hours is really conservative. How is anyone supposed to eat there left over Thanksgiving turkey in one sitting?! :-)
JH
Posted by gardenergirl on April 8, 2006, at 23:35:21
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by JaclinHyde on April 8, 2006, at 23:24:36
Posted by naughtypuppy on April 9, 2006, at 10:16:04
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by JaclinHyde on April 8, 2006, at 23:24:36
Uncooked meat is the real problem. After it's cooked the bacteria and therefore tyramine level rises more slowly as tyramine is produced by the effect of bacteria on protean.
Posted by Declan on April 9, 2006, at 20:44:38
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by gardenergirl on April 7, 2006, at 0:04:44
I eat some chocolate on Parnate that could have sent my BP up (something did). Probably Lindt 70% cocoa, maybe the worst sort for doing that? It was that or the whisky.
Declan
Posted by gardenergirl on April 9, 2006, at 21:05:29
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by Declan on April 9, 2006, at 20:44:38
My bet would be the whiskey. I've stayed absolutely away from liquor since I started Nardil. One of the two food reactions I've had likely was caused by a small amount of Tia Maria in some cheesecake. I had diligently checked out all the other things I ate that night, but never thought to ask about the cheesecake. But mmmmmm, it was GOOOOOOD.
gg
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 9, 2006, at 22:57:23
In reply to There are supposed to be leftovers? :-) (nm), posted by gardenergirl on April 8, 2006, at 23:35:21
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 9, 2006, at 22:59:36
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05 » Declan, posted by gardenergirl on April 9, 2006, at 21:05:29
> My bet would be the whiskey. I've stayed absolutely away from liquor since I started Nardil. One of the two food reactions I've had likely was caused by a small amount of Tia Maria in some cheesecake. I had diligently checked out all the other things I ate that night, but never thought to ask about the cheesecake. But mmmmmm, it was GOOOOOOD.
>
> ggI agree, I would put my money (if I had any) on the whiskey.
JH
Posted by ed_uk on April 10, 2006, at 13:55:15
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05, posted by Declan on April 9, 2006, at 20:44:38
Thankfully, vodka doesn't contain any tyramine :)
Eddy
Posted by Declan on April 10, 2006, at 20:30:13
In reply to Re: MAOI Diet Revised on 1/05 » Declan, posted by ed_uk on April 10, 2006, at 13:55:15
Yeah Hi
So whisky contains Tyramine? It may have been Jamesons, I'm not sure. It wasn't a heap, probably 4 standard drinks all up.
Declan
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.