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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by loopsilala on April 7, 2006, at 20:39:51
Hi,
Ive recently changed from ciprimil to effexor and it going well, but the reason I changed is that I'm trying to work out why I get crazy fatigue at any time during the day. Its been like this for months. I feel like im wasting my life asleep as im very young to be this tired and have a great diet and coffee and all that jazz dont help. I might get up and am ready to start the day or go somewhere in the afternoon when all of a sudden my eyes become heavy and I have to be flat and go to sleep, usually for three hours. My doctor cant explain it, would appreciate thoughts!
Posted by Racer on April 8, 2006, at 1:47:29
In reply to Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effexor, posted by loopsilala on April 7, 2006, at 20:39:51
I can't explain it, either, but I know it sounds a lot like what happens to me on pretty much any serotonergic medication -- and which was especially bad on Effexor. (And bad on Cymbalta, too...)
I do hope someone else comes along who knows something, because I'd love to know what might cause it, and what might help.
All I can suggest is talking to your doctor about Provigil, maybe...
Good luck.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 8, 2006, at 3:15:47
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex, posted by Racer on April 8, 2006, at 1:47:29
Hey!
Well same thing happened to me on cipramil UK/Europe -which country are you in?!) I slept for like 12 hours a day. When I came home from work around 6pm I would sleep til 9pm, wake up have something to eat and then go back to bed. Its the cipramil. Apparently SSRIs effect sleep architecture -- anyway cipramil made me sleep ALOT. It was a huge relief when I came of it, because I could actually stay awake past 9pm. I didn't realise it was the drug - I thought it was just me!!!
Anyway cipramil also causes apathy and amotivation -- I generally turned into a sleepy zombie! I also got this pretty bad, in case you were wondering, which I didn't realise until I went off the drug!!
I'm only kinda bitter that I wasted a year of my life on a drug which didn't allow me to do anything.
I think Effexor is better in that regard. I don't think I was nearly as sleepy on it. In fact, I think it is relatively okay.
In fact, I'm rather surprised that your doc didn't know that it is probably the cipramil. Are you in the UK (I only ask because in the USA cipramil is called celexa). UK GPs are notorious (IMHO) for not really having much of a clue about SSRIs (I'm in the UK).
The same thing happened to me - I complained to my GP about being tired all the time, and he didn't even think to ask that it could be the cipramil. I had some blood tests and er that was it. Luckily I found this board, and realised that it was the cipramil.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by loopsilala on April 8, 2006, at 4:20:14
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 8, 2006, at 3:15:47
Hey,
Yes, I'm in Ireland and my gp just took blood tests to see what it could be.It must be the ciprimil! Ive only been on efexor for about two weeks so I'm hoping the sleeping effects will wear off, thank you so much for your comment, its great to know someone else out there is having the same problem, I feel like I've been asleep for half the year!
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 8, 2006, at 9:59:40
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex, posted by loopsilala on April 8, 2006, at 4:20:14
hey again!
I hope effexor is better for you. I think it was for me, in terms of sleepiness anyway. Do you mind me asking what your diagnosis is?? Are you taking anything else?
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by wildcard11 on April 8, 2006, at 13:25:48
In reply to Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effexor, posted by loopsilala on April 7, 2006, at 20:39:51
caused intense fatigue for myself just as you describe. after getting my thyroid ck'ed he added wellbutrin XL for energy but i still felt fatigued. i could only take 75mg effexor w/o the side effect of severe fatigue along w/ the wellbutrin.
Posted by loopsilala on April 8, 2006, at 14:42:25
In reply to effexor xr » loopsilala, posted by wildcard11 on April 8, 2006, at 13:25:48
Hi,
I was on 40mg of Ciprimil and am now on 75mg efexor XL,
I just hope the snooziness will wear off, it sounds silly but fatigue can take over your life,
What amount of efexor are you on?
Posted by loopsilala on April 8, 2006, at 14:45:45
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 8, 2006, at 9:59:40
Sorry misread the email, i've had depression for about three years which replaced an eating disorder when I was younger, last year I became prone to anxiety incredible sadness and panic attacks, this year it just seems to be replaced by sleepiiness.
I was taking st.johns worth but it didnt mix well with the cipramil, I think b vitamins helped aswell but not with the tiredness which was what I originally was taking them for!
Posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2006, at 17:52:02
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex, posted by loopsilala on April 8, 2006, at 14:45:45
It's the SSRI's and SSNRI's again. When will the docs get smarter and realize they are not for everyone just like some people can't take aspirin. But the drug companies pay big bucks to the docs if they use their drugs and adding another drug is just making them more money. I said once before that while working in psych I was amazed a suicidal pt could come in and was transferred upstairs to a less secure unit. Well they would leave my floor on maybe two meds. I would pull an extra shift a week later and now they were on three pages of meds and they were sicker than before. They called them frequent flyers. They would go home and come right back in on and on it went. Love Phillipa
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 5:01:09
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex, posted by loopsilala on April 8, 2006, at 14:45:45
Well, I don't really know what to recommend! Well anyway I stopped taking the cipramil because of the sleepiness, and now I'm much better (well in regard to sleepiness anyway!).
I have just recently stopped taking St John's wort - which was good - I wasn't sleepy. How did you find it? Yes, its a very bad idea combining St John's wort with cipramil. Did your GP know about this??
Well I guess you can see how the effexor goes. If you're anything like me, it did well on the sleepiness front, although I was only on 75mg. I hope it improves.
Adding wellbutrin may be problematic. It is contraindicated in patients who have had an ED. And also, if in Ireland its like in the UK, Wellbutrin isn't actually avaible as a psych medication. Here in the UK it is called 'Zyban' and used to help people quit smoking. I had bit of a hard time getting my GP to precribe it for me. Also, they won't like the idea of it being combined with an SSRI (although it is safe to do so).
And BTW - when/if you decide to come off effexor, please do it really slowly - effexor withdrawal can be very bad. How did you find the cipramil withdrawal??
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by loopsilala on April 9, 2006, at 5:42:38
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 5:01:09
Wow,
Thanks for all that info! I found coming off the ciprimil very hard as my gp told me to leave it for three or four days before starting the efexor to get it out of my system but I could only last about two and a half. I'm also only on 75mg of efexor and in terms of happiness I feel so far its the right dose for me which I never felt with Ciprimil.
Whats your diagnosis if you don't mind me asking?
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 7:22:20
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex, posted by loopsilala on April 9, 2006, at 5:42:38
Hi!
>! I found coming off the ciprimil very hard as my gp told me to leave it for three or four days before starting the efexor to get it out of my system but I could only last about two and a half.
Prior to this, did you taper the cipramil at all???? I mean, did you decrease the doses gradually?
I can't actually remember how long I left between medications. Maybe it doesn't matter that you didn't taper the cipramil because you were going staight on the effexor.> Whats your diagnosis if you don't mind me asking?
Depression (which could be atypical), anxiety, panic attacks. Its all sort of jumbled together.
Posted by FredPotter on April 10, 2006, at 0:23:19
In reply to Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effexor, posted by loopsilala on April 7, 2006, at 20:39:51
Me too. I was on Cipramil (Celexa). My pdoc said if it didn't happen all the time then it was unlikely to be a side effect. More likely a symptom of atypical depression. I've been off Cipramil for months now and take Effexor instead. I still have days like this though. I slept almost all day yesterday, but I wasn't depressed. I quite enjoyed it
Posted by FredPotter on April 10, 2006, at 0:25:26
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex, posted by Racer on April 8, 2006, at 1:47:29
Is it possible that SSRIs cause dopamine depletion or interference with the dopamine system?
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 10, 2006, at 7:43:29
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex » Racer, posted by FredPotter on April 10, 2006, at 0:25:26
Yeah it is, I can't remember the details, but there was a discussion here not to long ago called, I think, amotivational syndrome on SSRIs....there was some abstracts being branded around that dopamine is affected, um, the extact details are beyond my understanding!! But it makes sense to me.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060322/msgs/625401.html
and:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060329/msgs/627514.html
And er some others. I can't really remember which treads they were through!
Kind regards
Meri
> Is it possible that SSRIs cause dopamine depletion or interference with the dopamine system?
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 10, 2006, at 7:45:14
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effex » Racer, posted by FredPotter on April 10, 2006, at 0:25:26
I think it was this one that i was thinking of....
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060322/msgs/623866.html
Posted by FredPotter on April 11, 2006, at 16:55:05
In reply to Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effexor, posted by loopsilala on April 7, 2006, at 20:39:51
I still have the tiredness and sleepiness now I'm on Effexor, though I take a lot (375mg). The sleepiness is linked with agitation, overbreathing and a feeling of opposing forces grinding in my abdomen. Also I find everything a chore, like playing or listening to music, cooking, eating. All I want is to go to bed. How much of this is due to the drug and how much is depression I don't know. Can anyone help?
Fred
Posted by wildcard11 on April 11, 2006, at 17:08:20
In reply to Re: Inexplicable fatigue during day,Ciprimil,effexor » loopsilala, posted by FredPotter on April 11, 2006, at 16:55:05
i know that a small percentage of people (including myself), that are/were on effexor xr experienced fatigue. if i took more than 75mg, i felt just as u described!! it was awful so my doc added wellbutrin after having thyroid checked,etc.. it helped some but not a big difference. i found that 75xr in the am and then another 75xr in mid afternoon along w/ the wellbutrin boosted my energy some. i've never taken more than 150mg even though he wanted me on 300+. feel free to babblemail me if u have any questions....
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