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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 13:40:04
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:56:47
>another semester would push it to $200,000,
Well bugger me. I'm on £10,000 a year and work 6 days a week. Please be a bit more thoughtful.......and a bit more modest. I'm sorry for your pain (trust me, I do understand) but a little bit of modesty goes a long way........or perhaps this is only in the UK.
Ed
Posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 14:31:01
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:12:29
I've improved by a grade letter or so since off SSRI's. Things don't take as long to do either.
Linkadge
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 14:37:04
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 13:40:04
Ed,
I apologize for coming across as immodest. I considered that before posting, and this was my thought process: I could post modestly, or I could post what I would say to my very best friend so i can get responses based on what my friends would say. apologies if I offended you.
Doug
Posted by Caedmon on April 9, 2006, at 15:05:17
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 14:37:04
Hi Doug,
Some of the medications I've taken have blunted my cognition, but not all of them. I managed to graduate with a 3.8 GPA, and I've been accepted to graduate school. (But, I graduated from a state school, so maybe you would consider that to be less significant of an accomplishment.)
SSRIs can deplete dopamine and instate a pseudo-ADD problem. I've noticed this in myself. I've stopped taking SSRI-type medications and experienced my "old" self back, although my old self is still depressed and anxious.
I hear a lot of "shoulds" in your posts. How you "should" be performing at some level or be some sort of person. It sounds like you're very unhappy. It can be painful to have life circumstances change, but maybe you can focus on the things you can do, instead of the things you can't? You don't need to be a CEO to be happy. (I certainly hope not, since I'll never be one and don't plan to.) Best of luck through this difficult time.
- C
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 15:12:41
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 13:40:04
>......or perhaps this is only in the UK.
;o)
That made me smile Ed on otherwise a dreary wet night!!!
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 15:30:28
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:06:23
Glad I could help you abit Doug.....
Just think, there are other ways of measuring 'success' other than having a fancy job......personally, I don't think anyone is anymore successful that another. Everyone is a valid human being no matter what they 'do'..... Am I less of a human being because I don't have a job? I hope not!!
Could you tell your friends that you are having a 'year out' after uni? Maybe do some travelling, work on charity projects abroad, that sort of thing. In the UK its quite acceptable, even encouraged to some degree, so take some time out after uni (or even before/during) by employers. In fact, its bit of a cliche here. But it might be good for you, give you some distance and perspective......I don't know if that sort of thing appeals. Well anyway, I wish I could take my advice at times! I constantly beat myself up over the fact that I'm not doing what I want to be doing with my 'professional' life. Oh well. Its easier said that done....
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 16:08:03
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Caedmon on April 9, 2006, at 15:05:17
C,
Thank you for your post. 3.8 GPA is certainly a great accomplishment, no matter where you went to school. My mind has been so impaired on ADs that I doubt it would matter what school I am at because I think I would do just as poorly as I've done here. I can't tell you how much I look forward to getting off these ADs. Next month can't come fast enough!
Take care,
Doug
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 16:09:19
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 15:30:28
Meri,
Not many people in the US take a year off before going into the work force. I hope to be in much better shape within a few months after I get off the ADs!! We shall see.
Best wishes,
Doug
Posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 17:21:17
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 14:37:04
Hi
It's ok Doug. I understand where you're coming from.
I might be on the minimum wage for the rest of my life since I dropped out of university. All my friends from school have degrees now, most from good universities. I might be able to consider going back to university myself if I wasn't so apathetic.
Regards
Ed
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 17:22:41
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 17:21:17
Thank you Ed. I sincerely hope you find a way out of the apathy and find a great passion.
Best wishes,
Doug
Posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 19:00:41
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 17:22:41
Doug look at it this way. I started on AD's l0years ago and have lost l0years and I was an RN not a CEO. I would never ever want to be one. I was happy doing what I loved and the patients loved me too. I am 60 a week ago time is running out for me . Your are young so there will be meds I'll never see. And now the medical problems to from aging. So I really would want to be in your shoes there is so much promise in the future. Look at the progress since the 50
s in general in all meds. And a hundred years a go people died at 40 from old age. I can't change my age and I wish I could but I can keep fighting and I am. There is an answer somewhere and I'm determined to find it. I have been very angry on this board the last week because of more and more medical problems but there is a cemetary behind my house so I guess thing could be worse. Love Phillipa
Posted by Racer on April 9, 2006, at 19:21:11
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 16:08:03
Doug, I'm very sorry that you feel as though your life has been ruined because you took antidepressants. And I'm very sorry that you didn't get the grades you expected in college.
I gotta tell you, part of me is feeling very resentful, because you really are priviledged. I won't go into that, though.
At this point, Doug, you kinda have to decide what you're going to do next. Until you can get your hands on a Way Back Machine, there's nothing you can do about the past four years. But there are a few years ahead of you which you can make some decisions about.
My advice on the matter would be find a good therapist. Work through your anger and resentment about not getting the grades you wanted in college. Work on understanding what happened to you, in order to move on.
Good luck.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 19:47:40
In reply to Let's use the Way Back Machine to fix it all! » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by Racer on April 9, 2006, at 19:21:11
Racer,
Thank you for your post. I definitely need a good therapist. It's also possible for privileged people to feel bad and to feel like failures. I have failed. These last four years have been a total FAILURE. My goal is to be a major CEO and to give a lot back in any way I can to the community and to those less fortunate. I want to get my DRIVE back so I can achieve great things and then give it back to those less fortunate.Doug
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 19:49:11
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 19:00:41
Phillip, thank you for your thoughtful post. I sincerely hope you find love and happiness. I will keep your post in mind as I go through this. I am very young, but it's very hard right now in this difficult time to keep that perspective. The fact is I just don't have it, and it's been a NIGHTMARE. I have to find hope. It's hard...
Doug
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 9, 2006, at 23:32:50
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:56:47
Doug, I am just wondering if you have ever been checked for bipolar disorder? And I know I am going to get crucified for this but don't you think you are being a bit hard on the meds you took? Could it just be that you have to blame something for what you are going through? It takes two to tango you know and maybe you should take a good hard look at yourself and leave the meds out of the picture for a moment. I am NOT unsympathetic. I do know you are going through a lot of pain right now. All I am saying is to shift your thinking and be honest with yourself.
much love,
JH
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 23:42:00
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by JaclinHyde on April 9, 2006, at 23:32:50
JH,
With all due respect, I know you do not mean ill, but I must say that you could not possibly be more wrong in your assessment/questions. I could write out many more pages through objective measures showing exactly the impact the ADs have had on me. My conclusion is that people in general are far to easy on the ADs and should be much more considerate of the negative effects of ADs.
So in short, while I understand you are just asking and I'm sure you mean no harm by asking, but I cannot help but be offended at the thought. I have spent 4 YEARS of pain that through objective measures have been caused by the ADs. It's that simple. I think more people like me should come forward to recognize that ADs are not all fine and good for everyone. People should know!
Doug
Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on April 10, 2006, at 0:25:28
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 23:42:00
Doug:
Again, my heart goes out to you. I am sorry you were and are in so much pain. This message board is stacked full of people in the same situation, maybe even worse.
You should be proud of yourself from graduating from college despite all of your adversity. It proved what tremendous character and inner strength you possess.
Again, my friend, you must realize there are plenty of people in Fortune 500 companies that have emotional issues. Ted Turner, founder of CNN, is bipolar, as is former CNN president Tom Johnson. Jane Pauley is bipolar. Bill Gates didn't graduate from college. I could go on and on and on.
Everyone knows life is what you make of it. Yes, maybe it will be tougher to get a job out of the starting gate. Then again, because your grades aren't as good as you like, it may make you more aggressive in pursuing a job, therefore open different doors, bigger doors.
I've never even known grades to matter in a job interview except for maybe your first job. Most of the time, it all seems about what you can do. I pray that this obstacle you see even makes you more determined. Michael
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 10, 2006, at 0:30:36
In reply to Re: Mistaken beliefs, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on April 10, 2006, at 0:25:28
Michael,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful post. I appreciate your encouragement. I feel determined to get out of this, and that starts by getting off the handicapping ADs. My goal is to have some great news of progress by the fall and report back to this board. ADs themselves can sometimes be the problem. It's been TOO LONG. FOUR YEARS is 3.4 years TOO LONG.
Thank you again Michael. I wish you well.
Doug
Posted by Caedmon on April 10, 2006, at 0:41:00
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 23:42:00
> With all due respect, I know you do not mean ill, but I must say that you could not possibly be more wrong in your assessment/questions. I could write out many more pages through objective measures showing exactly the impact the ADs have had on me.>
What objective measures? Surely someone as bright as you understands the importance of isolating variables. I think JH was simply addressing that issue.
- C
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 10, 2006, at 0:48:49
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Caedmon on April 10, 2006, at 0:41:00
For starters, you have isolated several variables in this comparison: in high school, pre-AD I had near perfect grades. After ADs, they fell by a letter grade on average.
Posted by xbunny on April 10, 2006, at 5:38:11
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 17:21:17
Hiya Ed,
> I might be on the minimum wage for the rest of my life since I dropped out of university. All my friends from school have degrees now, most from good universities. I might be able to consider going back to university myself if I wasn't so apathetic.
Dont lose hope, I never went to university either and make better than minimum wage.
Best regards, Bunny
Posted by SLS on April 10, 2006, at 9:05:27
In reply to no uni - no job » ed_uk, posted by xbunny on April 10, 2006, at 5:38:11
> I might be on the minimum wage for the rest of my life since I dropped out of university. All my friends from school have degrees now, most from good universities. I might be able to consider going back to university myself if I wasn't so apathetic.
I have no practical answers for you at this time.I would like to say that I doubt someone as intelligent, caring, persistent, and resourceful as you are will remain impoverished for very long. You are held in high regard here, and I hope you see how such high esteem is a reflection of the esteem you should have for yourself.
- Scott
Posted by greywolf on April 10, 2006, at 10:21:26
In reply to Re: no uni - no job, posted by SLS on April 10, 2006, at 9:05:27
Doug,
You have to sit back and think about how you've gotten to where you are right now. I think that, usually, people don't wake up after 4 years and have an epiphany that their failure to reach important objectives is due solely to anti-depressants. In fact, I think it's most often the exact opposite: as we go along striving to reach our goals and it becomes harder and harder to achieve those goals because of, for instance, congitive deficits or lethargy caused by medication, we talk to our doctors to either find something without interfering impacts or to try an augmentation strategy that may put us in the position to reach our objectives.
So, while I understand your upset, I also seen the other poster's point. And honestly, I can't imagine how you could measure all the variables in this situation because there are just too many that are completely subjective. It's wonderful that you did well in high school and got into a good university. And if it's a "top 5 university in the world," I'd imagine that everyone there also did really well in high school. That competition makes college success versus your peers more difficult by orders of magnitude, and that creates an awful lot of pressure that even effective meds may not be able to adequately address.
That's why I recommended that you let the past be the past, and seize the opportunities ahead of you. You will find in the real business world that your degreee doesn't mean much in 90% of it, and in the 10% where it matters, that just gets you in the door.
I regularly do battle with people who really believe that where they went to school somehow gives them an advantage, and those people regularly discover it doesn't matter.
And I'm happy to teach them that lesson every chance I get.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_Team on April 10, 2006, at 11:26:36
In reply to Re: no uni - no job, posted by greywolf on April 10, 2006, at 10:21:26
greywolf,
Thank you for taking the time to write that post. I know you did not intend to be offensive, but you completely misinterpreted what actually happened. I did not "wake up" suddenly after 4 years and start blaming ADs. It has been a long process of 4 years using trial and error to see what works.
With regards to teaching people a lesson that went to some top school, I'm glad you enjoy that. I could careless that I went to a top 5 school. My Dad went to a mediocre school and is the very best at his profession. It's all about what you make of it.
I'm glad it has worked for you, but I find the idea of continuing for years to continue to "augment" the medication until some magic bullet formula is reached is a trial in futility. I do not think people realize that. Fortunately for me, I have an objective measure of performance in the form of grades, but a lot of people who like me have negative cognitive side-effects on ADs do NOT understand because, although you do not mean any harms, the ideas from people like you perpetuate the myth that ADs are a cure-all. The reality is they are not for all.
The very fact people are questioning the validity of my assessment is offensive because in their responses they insert assumptions that are way off base or misunderstand what has actually happened. I do not mean to offend anyone, but perhaps those people either (1) have had a great experience on ADs and thus are unable to consider the possibility that others could not be right for ADs or (2) have had a poor experience on ADs, but live in denial that those side-effects do not exist.
Greywolf, I know you mean well, but your injection of your own assumptions (read guesses) about my situation are way off base and frankly offensive to me and the SUFFERING I have had to endure while on ADs. In that post, you should have been more considerate of your choice of words.
Doug
Posted by bipolarspectrum on April 10, 2006, at 12:56:02
In reply to Re: no uni - no job, posted by Doug_Saving_The_Team on April 10, 2006, at 11:26:36
Hello again Doug,
I propose that you take time away from school... a minimum of 6 months, more favourably a year.... go find a great pdoc, not a good one, a great one... and work with him/her for that time... and your goal mabye to return to school and/or enter the working world after this period... i advocate this plan because I followed it... I learned I have bipolar disorder and am finally being treated with proper medication (not ssris)... My goal is to return to school this sept, be it med school or back to undergrad.... the advantages of a break is that it allows you to focus 100% on ourself... and dont think its boring, I'm doing things I never thought I'd be able to do, like salsa dance and read.... you may think its more wasted time, but i see it as an investment in your future!
bps
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