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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 7:32:48
In reply to ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:44:22
Hi Doug,
I'm in my 30's, and no where near the academic acheiver you are [i feel i had potential academically, but that is another story], but i totally understand everything you are saying, i am in the process of weaning off prozac, [on to st. johns wort, much milder], i too am frustrated with the apathy, loss of concentration, and just lack of drive in general.i have dysthmia, [low grade, "unrelenting" depression] and moderate ocd, but i am willing to take the chance of being med free, to reclaim my former self, i feel at times robotic, and also i have gone from being somewhat timid,[although very social] to a person with a distant, somewhat cocky attitude.
i agree with alot of the posters, meds can save lives, and for some create them, but i honestly, after 4 years also on meds, prefer my pre-medicated, driven self. i am not anti-med by any stretch, i still take klonopin and if neccessary i will return to an non-ssri med, but i think it is such a personal matter, only you can know and evaluate what is best for you,
i would try, [ with the help of a caring professional,] to do what you know makes you your most ambitious and creative self , but please keep all options open, don't feel you have failed if you must return to meds for awhile, you have a long and bright future ahead.but i just want to wish you the best of luck, and please know i understand everything you are saying, if given the chance to walk out of the pharmacy, [like i was about to]the night i filled my first prozac prescription, i would walk without looking back, take care.....john
Posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 8:40:59
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD? » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 7:32:48
I can say that medications had a definate impact on my cognitive skills and abilities.
I am suffering permanant side effects from the usage of certain medications.
On the other hand, univeristy can be tough, and a lot of very smart people struggle very hard in their final years. Its not as simple as to say that I was a genious in high school, what happened.
On the other hand, I know what you are talking about since I am taking 5.5 years to finish a 4 year program while by highschool peers are done.
Meds can fry your brain. The noradrenergic meds probably punch holes in your grey matter like the stimulants can via excitotoxicity (unsubstatiated suspicion :))
I've been off meds for a year (which is a scary thing do undertake all of a sudden in your final year of university), cognition can improve.P.S. you're probably freaking out cause its right near exam time ?? (but yes, I don't disagree with you)
Posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 11:41:25
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 8:40:59
"Its not as simple as to say that I was a genious in high school, what happened."
Sorry, that did not come out the way I wanted it to :) I guess I meant to say that I think it is a common thing for students in upper years to wonder why things are increasingly difficult.
(But on the other hand, I do believe that drugs can make significantly dull certain subtleties of learning and cognition.)
Linakdge
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:56:47
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by SLS on April 9, 2006, at 6:44:09
hi Scott, thank you very much for your thoughtful post. I am not experiencing any anxiety right now; basically the ADs have caused me to be more numb and out of touch than I ever thought possible.
Regarding AD combinations, I've been hearing that the "magic bullet" will come for 4 years now. People have told me it's all about what combination of medication and gave me hope by saying I will eventually find it. So what did I do? I kept changing medications for 4 years now and I still know I wasted the last 4 years.
There's no guarantee things will get better. The ADs might have permanently impaired my ability to perform. Thinking about it from the perspective of when I'm much older doesn't help now. Depression may influence my thoughts, but I've had four years to develop an objective perspective of what has gone on, and unquestionably I have wasted these four years. Four years makes up almost 20% of my entire life -- what a catastrophic loss!! And now I'm going home a failure, an education that with another semester would push it to $200,000, and so many goals left unfulfilled. People should know about the destruction ADs can wreak. They should know that there is not always a "magic combination" -- I've been in school and have an objective measure to follow performance by grades and there has been no improvement on different combinations, only worse and worse as it CHIPS AWAY AT MY PYSCHE and destroys my confidence and self-worth over time.
My pain...
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:57:52
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by SLS on April 9, 2006, at 6:57:31
I have tried psychotherapy, and it worked for my OCD, but my OCD has been brought on by the ADs itself. It's a vicious cycle of seeking out new AD combinations, then getting a host of new destructive side-effects.
Posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 12:01:29
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:57:52
Sounds a bit like me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:06:23
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 7:07:57
Meri,
You have by far been the most helpful post. It is wonderful to hear from someone who truly understands what I have been going through because you have experienced the exact same thing. I know if I continue on ADs, I will only further waste my life away in NO achievement, NO progress and COMPLETE apathy. I am saving your advice and will keep it close to mind as I fight this WAR as I go off the EVIL ADs and try to REBUILD my life. It's SO PAINFUL -- I should be so many places right now that involve high achievement. But now where am I? I am forced to half-lies to fit in with my friends about where they are going to work after school. They are going to great training programs at ibanks, private equity shops and VC firms, but me? I tell a half-truth. I have to in order to save face. But that only reinforces how difficult all of this is because I have to deal with seeing people who I know I should be WAY more accomplished than, and know that I cannot get a job that some person with half the talent could get. I'M A SLAVE TO THE AD's, I'm TRAPPED in a life I should NEVER have led these last 4 YEARS!! Thinking about the perspective of being 70 is all great, but what about NOW? NOW is the worst part, and the most CRITICAL. It sounds like you and I will be going through similar things rebuilding our lives. I want to be BETTER NOW! In fact, I want to skip graduation ceremonies so I have an extra WEEK to get off ADs faster! f*** me...
But thank you Meri. You are the first who can really understand. Please stay on this board. I plan to be posting throughout the next year. Let's FIGHT this together!!
Doug
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:10:04
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD? » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 7:32:48
John,
Thank you for your thoughtful post. We are in the same boat in that we both would take back filling that first prescription. Oh the ANGUISH I feel and PAIN reliving that decision. I just KNEW this would happen. When I made the decision, I had an INTENSE MOMENT when I told myself this was a long-term decision, and it has turned into that, and a very destructive one at that. I have wasted a hugely expensive education at a top 5 university. Now I cannot go on to higher education at another top 5 education because I have the brains but my grades in university undergrad have been so poor there is NO WAY they could look past that. I have to LIVE with that! I have to LEARN all that I could have learned on MY OWN that I SHOULD have learned these past 4 years! I should know finance, statistics and accounting to an ADVANCED extent, but I do not because the ADs have handicapped me.
My destruction...
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:12:29
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 8:40:59
Thank you for your post. A lot of smart people may struggle in their university years, but it was not supposed to be ME. It's one thing to struggle when not handicapped by ADs, but I AM handicapped by ADs, and I HAVE been STUNTED by the ADs, and there is NO RECOVERING the 4 YEARS I have LOST. I hope your cognition continues to improve now that you are off ADs. Can you quantify the improvement you have seen in cognitive performance by considering your academic achievement improvement while off ADs?
Doug
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:13:44
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 12:01:29
For me, the ONLY solution is to break out of this destructive cycle of choosing new ADs and BE MYSELF. I want MYSELF BACK! I want to have FEELINGS again, and the DRIVE, AMBITION and DETERMINATION I once had. F*** ADs!
Oh me...
Posted by greywolf on April 9, 2006, at 12:23:26
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:12:29
" . . . but it was not supposed to be ME."
I think we've all had that thought at times. But I think you have to remember that old stock portfolio warning: past success is not an indicator of future performance.
I know straight A students who went on from high school to mediocrity in college. Whether it was low high school standards, heightened college standard, partying, or mental illness, no one really knows. I also know certified genius students in college who flamed out there or floundered in the business world. Every instance turns on individual circumstances.
You may be entirely right to blame ADs for your predicament. And someone else might correctly be thankful for the same ADs allowing them to do well in school, excel at a job, etc.
All I know is that you have to write off the past, concentrate on the moment, and fight to get ahead. If that means trying new meds or going it alone without meds, so be it. But you have many years ahead of you, and surrendering now because you believe ADs ruined it for you would be selling yourself short.
Good luck.
Posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 13:33:31
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by greywolf on April 9, 2006, at 12:23:26
SSRIs have helped my anxiety a lot but they've also ruined my life. I've lost all ambition and motivation. I dropped out of university last year. I'm now on the minimum wage.
I did well in high school. I did have potential.
So yes, I've been hurt (a lot) by ADs despite the fact that they've also helped me in other ways.
And Doug, let's not forget that you ARE going to complete university. Things could have been a lot worse.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 13:40:04
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:56:47
>another semester would push it to $200,000,
Well bugger me. I'm on £10,000 a year and work 6 days a week. Please be a bit more thoughtful.......and a bit more modest. I'm sorry for your pain (trust me, I do understand) but a little bit of modesty goes a long way........or perhaps this is only in the UK.
Ed
Posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 14:31:01
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:12:29
I've improved by a grade letter or so since off SSRI's. Things don't take as long to do either.
Linkadge
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 14:37:04
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 13:40:04
Ed,
I apologize for coming across as immodest. I considered that before posting, and this was my thought process: I could post modestly, or I could post what I would say to my very best friend so i can get responses based on what my friends would say. apologies if I offended you.
Doug
Posted by Caedmon on April 9, 2006, at 15:05:17
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 14:37:04
Hi Doug,
Some of the medications I've taken have blunted my cognition, but not all of them. I managed to graduate with a 3.8 GPA, and I've been accepted to graduate school. (But, I graduated from a state school, so maybe you would consider that to be less significant of an accomplishment.)
SSRIs can deplete dopamine and instate a pseudo-ADD problem. I've noticed this in myself. I've stopped taking SSRI-type medications and experienced my "old" self back, although my old self is still depressed and anxious.
I hear a lot of "shoulds" in your posts. How you "should" be performing at some level or be some sort of person. It sounds like you're very unhappy. It can be painful to have life circumstances change, but maybe you can focus on the things you can do, instead of the things you can't? You don't need to be a CEO to be happy. (I certainly hope not, since I'll never be one and don't plan to.) Best of luck through this difficult time.
- C
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 15:12:41
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 13:40:04
>......or perhaps this is only in the UK.
;o)
That made me smile Ed on otherwise a dreary wet night!!!
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 15:30:28
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:06:23
Glad I could help you abit Doug.....
Just think, there are other ways of measuring 'success' other than having a fancy job......personally, I don't think anyone is anymore successful that another. Everyone is a valid human being no matter what they 'do'..... Am I less of a human being because I don't have a job? I hope not!!
Could you tell your friends that you are having a 'year out' after uni? Maybe do some travelling, work on charity projects abroad, that sort of thing. In the UK its quite acceptable, even encouraged to some degree, so take some time out after uni (or even before/during) by employers. In fact, its bit of a cliche here. But it might be good for you, give you some distance and perspective......I don't know if that sort of thing appeals. Well anyway, I wish I could take my advice at times! I constantly beat myself up over the fact that I'm not doing what I want to be doing with my 'professional' life. Oh well. Its easier said that done....
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 16:08:03
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Caedmon on April 9, 2006, at 15:05:17
C,
Thank you for your post. 3.8 GPA is certainly a great accomplishment, no matter where you went to school. My mind has been so impaired on ADs that I doubt it would matter what school I am at because I think I would do just as poorly as I've done here. I can't tell you how much I look forward to getting off these ADs. Next month can't come fast enough!
Take care,
Doug
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 16:09:19
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 15:30:28
Meri,
Not many people in the US take a year off before going into the work force. I hope to be in much better shape within a few months after I get off the ADs!! We shall see.
Best wishes,
Doug
Posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 17:21:17
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 14:37:04
Hi
It's ok Doug. I understand where you're coming from.
I might be on the minimum wage for the rest of my life since I dropped out of university. All my friends from school have degrees now, most from good universities. I might be able to consider going back to university myself if I wasn't so apathetic.
Regards
Ed
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 17:22:41
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 17:21:17
Thank you Ed. I sincerely hope you find a way out of the apathy and find a great passion.
Best wishes,
Doug
Posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 19:00:41
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 17:22:41
Doug look at it this way. I started on AD's l0years ago and have lost l0years and I was an RN not a CEO. I would never ever want to be one. I was happy doing what I loved and the patients loved me too. I am 60 a week ago time is running out for me . Your are young so there will be meds I'll never see. And now the medical problems to from aging. So I really would want to be in your shoes there is so much promise in the future. Look at the progress since the 50
s in general in all meds. And a hundred years a go people died at 40 from old age. I can't change my age and I wish I could but I can keep fighting and I am. There is an answer somewhere and I'm determined to find it. I have been very angry on this board the last week because of more and more medical problems but there is a cemetary behind my house so I guess thing could be worse. Love Phillipa
Posted by Racer on April 9, 2006, at 19:21:11
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 16:08:03
Doug, I'm very sorry that you feel as though your life has been ruined because you took antidepressants. And I'm very sorry that you didn't get the grades you expected in college.
I gotta tell you, part of me is feeling very resentful, because you really are priviledged. I won't go into that, though.
At this point, Doug, you kinda have to decide what you're going to do next. Until you can get your hands on a Way Back Machine, there's nothing you can do about the past four years. But there are a few years ahead of you which you can make some decisions about.
My advice on the matter would be find a good therapist. Work through your anger and resentment about not getting the grades you wanted in college. Work on understanding what happened to you, in order to move on.
Good luck.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 19:47:40
In reply to Let's use the Way Back Machine to fix it all! » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by Racer on April 9, 2006, at 19:21:11
Racer,
Thank you for your post. I definitely need a good therapist. It's also possible for privileged people to feel bad and to feel like failures. I have failed. These last four years have been a total FAILURE. My goal is to be a major CEO and to give a lot back in any way I can to the community and to those less fortunate. I want to get my DRIVE back so I can achieve great things and then give it back to those less fortunate.Doug
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