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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sukarno on March 7, 2006, at 5:15:54
I can't believe a year has passed so quickly. Wow. Anyway, I would say my experience on Stablon has been satisfactory, although I had to supplement with light therapy for my depression which is mostly related to S.A.D. (Seasonal Affective Disorder).
Stablon seems to be effective for mild to moderate depression in my opinion and own experience and effective for panic disorder. It improved my anxiety a lot and did not cause any sexual dysfunction. In fact, a few times I had taken an extra Stablon I experienced an increase in libido the following day.
There was some "poop out" after a month or two and a dosage increase was necessary. After that I remained stable on 4 tablets a day (recommended dose is 3 tablets a day and maximum is 6) for several months.
After the birth of my son and arrival of the monsoon (rainy season) I began to become more nervous and depressed, so I increased Stablon to 5 tablets a day and then 6 a day.
I also was tapering diazepam (Valium) beginning in October at the rate of 1mg reduction per month.
I'm now on 13mg/day diazepam (7mg AM and 6mg PM).I've been on light therapy for one month and have no depression and my libido has gradually increased to the point where I can say I'm almost normal in terms of libido, whereas I had suffered from very low libido for a few years. I assume depression caused that.
I saw a psychiatrist a few weeks ago and he said 6 tablets a day was excessive for Stablon and that some people abuse this medication, so he recommended a taper down to 3 tablets a day which I accomplished in 2 weeks.
I didn't experience any significant withdrawal symptoms, except for a transient increase in anxiety and depression which quickly resolved on its own without any further intervention.
In the beginning of Stablon treatment one year ago I found it to be somewhat anxiety-provoking in the beginning although I didn't have any panic attacks as a result. After that it began to have strong anxiolytic effects without producing sedation.
The only side effects I have experienced are headache (that could be due to excessive use of my computer though as my computer monitor gives me eyestrain) and slightly dry mouth, but neither of these caused me much concern and declined in frequency with continued use.
I'd recommend this for those who cannot tolerate SSRIs, and/or those who want to avoid sexual dysfunction. I'd also recommend it for anxiety and panic attacks. It seems to be better as an anxiolytic, even in the long term in my experience.
No emotional numbing..in fact, I'd say I experienced the opposite but that didn't happen often.
It is just a much more gentle antidepressant...much easier on the body. Thank God for Stablon. Too bad this isn't marketed in the USA.
Posted by linkadge on March 7, 2006, at 9:31:17
In reply to 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 7, 2006, at 5:15:54
Thanks for your experience. I am interested in tianeptine. Perhaps one day I can convince my doc to give it a try, since I don't respond well to SSRIs.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on March 7, 2006, at 15:55:19
In reply to 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 7, 2006, at 5:15:54
Hi P
Good to hear from you!
How's the diazepam taper going? Sounds like a sensible taper to me. Too often people try to withdraw overnight. This is very bad news!
Ed :)
Posted by sukarno on March 8, 2006, at 6:14:59
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon) » sukarno, posted by ed_uk on March 7, 2006, at 15:55:19
"How's the diazepam taper going? Sounds like a sensible taper to me. Too often people try to withdraw overnight. This is very bad news!"
Hi Ed! :-) How are you doing? What is your medication regimen now? Are you still taking citalopram?
You are right about that. People taper much too quickly and this is probably part of the reason why benzodiazepines have such a bad name today, in addition to the irresponsible prescription of the 1970s.
I do feel slightly more nervous and was hyperventilating a bit last night, so I'm wondering if there is some relapse (not rebound) of my panic disorder.
I've been on 3 tablets a day of tianeptine for about 10 days and I really wish I could take 4 because I think this dose is subtherapeutic. Perhaps 13mg of diazepam per day is also not enough. My psychiatrist wanted me on a slightly higher dose of diazepam temporarily but I told him I was determined to taper. I think his idea was better... I really could be below the threshold needed to control panic attacks.
I know that back in 1995 I was on only 2mg diazepam 3 or 4 times a day and it was not enough to control the panic attacks. 18mg/day used to be the "magic number" which kept me 100% panic free, but I hope to take the minimum that is necessary to control the anxiety.
It seems my pdoc is more anti-Stablon than anti-diazepam. Seems he has no problem with diazepam. We are both in agreement over our dislike of alprazolam due to its short-acting nature and ability to actually precipitate anxiety.
He even told me to smoke 1 to 3 cigarettes per day if I thought that would help me with my motivation, since the drugs which helped my motivation (conventional TCAs) were intolerable in terms of side effects.
Smoking is such an unorthodox suggestion and I have not tried it (I'm a former smoker) again, but I had told him that nicotine was very effective at helping my motivation. It really works wonders and it is unfortunate that I cannot get prescription nicotine here. No gum or patches available whatsoever.
I guess I could ask him about pramipexole or ropinirole but don't they cause narcolepsy (sudden attacks of sleep which are uncontrollable)?
My goal is to discontinue diazepam someday and rely on Stablon to control anxiety as I feel, despite Stablon's psychological dependence, there is little or no physical dependence.I'm afraid that benzodiazepines will become more tightly scheduled in the future and thus, I'd better consider abandoning them before this happens.
Seems like my pdoc would rather have me take diazepam and mirtazapine (Remeron) rather than Stablon. Have you tried Remeron? I wonder how a drug which is a serotonin _antagonist_ can help depression? Does dopamine production increase when you decrease serotonin?
Take care Ed! :-)Best wishes,
Paul
Posted by Pfinstegg on March 9, 2006, at 19:02:07
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 8, 2006, at 6:14:59
I wanted to add my support about tianeptine. I have taken it for about a year, also, and feel that, while it's only moderate (for me) as an AD, it's quite good in reducing anxiety. It gets very high marks for neuroprotection from the people who have studied it at Rockefeller University (Bruce McEwen) and the German Primate Center. It's been ued safely in France for 10 years- and it's the most side effect-free AD I've ever taken.
I'm amazed that your doctor would suggest SMOKING a bit, after you have quit. Also, valium is much more addictive than tianeptine, although a few people (in France) have begun taking steadily increasing amount of tianeptine- only a few, though, and they are all people with lengthy abuse histories.
Posted by tessellated on March 11, 2006, at 7:50:26
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by Pfinstegg on March 9, 2006, at 19:02:07
yes,
tianeptine is a very cool agent.
i easily pushed 10 of those tic tacs down in a day.
it has a very slight but exiting stimulantory nature to it.
good for moderate vegetative depression.
good augment
i mixed with wellbutrin for a high energy state that pushed my libido back to adolescence.
Posted by Last Chance on March 11, 2006, at 10:47:29
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by tessellated on March 11, 2006, at 7:50:26
I have occasional irregular heartbeat, sometimes very fast - have had a few a-fib episodes in the last 5 years. Do you know if this condition might make Tianeptine a bad choice. Thanx
Posted by sukarno on March 11, 2006, at 10:59:50
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by Last Chance on March 11, 2006, at 10:47:29
You should ask your cardiologist about that before beginning tianeptine therapy.
However, tianeptine is vastly different from the other tricyclic antidepressants in that it does not block the sodium channels in the heart, thus it does not seem to affect cardiac function, at least not adversely.
It also possesses much less anticholinergic activity than other tricyclics.I don't think it will be a problem, but please consult first with your cardiologist. :)
Posted by Last Chance on March 15, 2006, at 14:15:54
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon) » Last Chance, posted by sukarno on March 11, 2006, at 10:59:50
> You should ask your cardiologist about that before beginning tianeptine therapy.
>
> However, tianeptine is vastly different from the other tricyclic antidepressants in that it does not block the sodium channels in the heart, thus it does not seem to affect cardiac function, at least not adversely.
>
> It also possesses much less anticholinergic activity than other tricyclics.
>
> I don't think it will be a problem, but please consult first with your cardiologist. :)Thank you for your input! Richard
Posted by Last Chance on March 22, 2006, at 15:30:52
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon) » sukarno, posted by Last Chance on March 15, 2006, at 14:15:54
Stablon - dosage question. I am supersensitive to meds and would like to start on a low dose of Tianeptine. The tabs are coated and not scored - does that mean they should not be cut in half? Would halving mess with it's action? Thanx for any input. Richard
Posted by Tony P on March 24, 2006, at 0:17:33
In reply to 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 7, 2006, at 5:15:54
Thanks for posting your experience sukarno & others!
I tried tianeptine recently as I have had very negative experiences with the usual SSRI and SNRI's. My impression was that it was helpful in a mild way. I didn't take more than 3x12.5 mg/day -- perhaps that wasn't enough.
I have been taking Lamictal (200 mg/day) for a couple of years and I wondered if that might mask the tianeptine's effect -- it seemed to interfere with Buspar, which used to work well for me at one time. In any case, with my p/doc's OK, I've stopped the tianeptine temporarily and am tapering off the Lamictal so I can get a clear baseline and try the tianeptine again.
Posted by kavaman on March 24, 2006, at 15:23:17
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by Tony P on March 24, 2006, at 0:17:33
Hi there everyone!
Havent written in a while. I today started on tianeptine, i also use remeron about 7.5mg aday which used to cut my anxiety/panic close to zero for about 3 years. On higher doses it made it much worse.Im "only" suffering from anxiety and panic, but getting depressed if i dont get atleast a little better soon.
Do you think its a safe combo? Also, i think my panic has been worse today when i started. I just took 2 pills of 12.5mg stablon.
How long did it take for you to feel the anxiolytic effects of stablon sukarno? I think you mentioned that you felt a bit worse in the beginning... Im a little worried because usually when a med makes me feel worse in the beginning its not going to help me at all, but i want to give this stuff a try, because i got it overseas, and because ive read good things about it. I dont feel any side effects, but i just feel panicky........like always.. but even more so now.
-kavaman
Posted by Last Chance on March 24, 2006, at 18:34:30
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by kavaman on March 24, 2006, at 15:23:17
> Hi there everyone!
>
> Havent written in a while. I today started on tianeptine, i also use remeron about 7.5mg aday which used to cut my anxiety/panic close to zero for about 3 years. On higher doses it made it much worse.Im "only" suffering from anxiety and panic, but getting depressed if i dont get atleast a little better soon.
>
> Do you think its a safe combo? Also, i think my panic has been worse today when i started. I just took 2 pills of 12.5mg stablon.
>
> How long did it take for you to feel the anxiolytic effects of stablon sukarno? I think you mentioned that you felt a bit worse in the beginning... Im a little worried because usually when a med makes me feel worse in the beginning its not going to help me at all, but i want to give this stuff a try, because i got it overseas, and because ive read good things about it. I dont feel any side effects, but i just feel panicky........like always.. but even more so now.
>
> -kavamanKavaman - I just started on Wednesday, but only took a half of a 12.5 - will take a whole today. I did feel some extra anxiety about an hr. after I took it, but it subsided. I am also taking .25 Klonapin a day, but working towards getting off, and then just taking a benzo only as needed. Other side effect has been upset stomach, so I will take with, or after a meal. I hope Stablon works. I suffer from social phobia, anxiety, and depression. Please keep posting - I would like to know how it is working. Richard
Posted by kavaman on March 25, 2006, at 4:17:00
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by Last Chance on March 24, 2006, at 18:34:30
Seems like your quite like me. Extremely powerful reactions to drugs. However this does not happen me on the benzo class of drugs. I use 2-3 days of clonazepam and then keep a 7 days break, just to take a break from the symptoms im having everyday. But my dosage of clonazepam on those 2-3 days is about 2-3mg! But antidepressants make me generally feel really woozy and very anxious, well atleast the ones ive tried (cipramil,buspar, some antipsychotics (seroquel,levozin). Also tried tolvon which is similar to remeron im taking now. The remeron for 7.5mg low dose worked miracles for me no panic attacks at all, started working since pill 1. I dont know why, neither does my psych doc.
So the only drugs im taking now are stablon 2-3pills of 12.5mg per day, and remeron 7.5mg per day. And those clonazepams still after a 7 days clean off period. I would need them everyday, but im sure if i do ill get so freaking addicted that i cant get off.
However i think im trying to give this stablon a go. Im just so sceptical of any pill working for me. I mean i fight hard to get the pills, but when i have to try and start it i just feel like i cant / dont want to. So afraid that i will feel even worse, and/or get really addicted to benzos because of that.
-kavaman
Posted by Last Chance on March 26, 2006, at 15:23:29
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by kavaman on March 25, 2006, at 4:17:00
> Seems like your quite like me. Extremely powerful reactions to drugs. However this does not happen me on the benzo class of drugs. I use 2-3 days of clonazepam and then keep a 7 days break, just to take a break from the symptoms im having everyday. But my dosage of clonazepam on those 2-3 days is about 2-3mg! But antidepressants make me generally feel really woozy and very anxious, well atleast the ones ive tried (cipramil,buspar, some antipsychotics (seroquel,levozin). Also tried tolvon which is similar to remeron im taking now. The remeron for 7.5mg low dose worked miracles for me no panic attacks at all, started working since pill 1. I dont know why, neither does my psych doc.
>
> So the only drugs im taking now are stablon 2-3pills of 12.5mg per day, and remeron 7.5mg per day. And those clonazepams still after a 7 days clean off period. I would need them everyday, but im sure if i do ill get so freaking addicted that i cant get off.
>
> However i think im trying to give this stablon a go. Im just so sceptical of any pill working for me. I mean i fight hard to get the pills, but when i have to try and start it i just feel like i cant / dont want to. So afraid that i will feel even worse, and/or get really addicted to benzos because of that.
>
> -kavaman
>
> kavaman, hey - yeah the Klonapin, it's easy to become addicted. I'm getting off because I believe it added to my depression - and I have read plenty of info that supports that. How long have you been doing the 2 or 3 days on and 7 off? I have had the Stablon for maybe 2 years, and am finally taking it. Still just one pill a day, and will be doing that til I get some more - I only have 22. I want to believe that it will work - I will just take it really slow and see what happens. I was going to wait for Emsam, but decided to give the Tianeptine a try. Richard
Posted by Last Chance on March 27, 2006, at 10:31:18
In reply to Re: 1 year on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by Last Chance on March 26, 2006, at 15:23:29
I have been having headaches and upset stomach with the Tianeptine. Was that a problem for you, and if so, did they subside and after how long? Richard
This is the end of the thread.
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