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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Jakeman on March 1, 2006, at 20:55:04
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon, posted by linkadge on February 27, 2006, at 15:09:45
They have to have worked for some people. Why would people pay billions over years for a placebo? Yes, SSRI's disrupt sleep. That's when they stopped working for me. Several sleep tests have shown that I get lots of REM sleep, but little or no deep (short wave) sleep. I have this condition, while depressed, while taking SSRI's.
In reading the anecdotal reports what strikes me is not whether or not they will work, but if they will work long-term.
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by Glydin on March 1, 2006, at 21:33:06
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » Glydin, posted by linkadge on March 1, 2006, at 15:13:55
> Well, there are many different types of post.
>
> But there is certainly one type which involves the assigning of undue merrit to drugs.I'm not really sure to what type of postings you are referring.
However, generally, I do think when I post of KNOWING my improvement and response is a direct result of the med I'm using - based on my assessment of myself, I don't think it's correct nor fair for anyone to question what my truth is to me. Doing so appears judgemental to me and I feel insulted. On the VERY other hand, if someone has THEIR reasons based on their experiences that are the polar opposite of what I believe true for me, I don't question that nor do I care to judge them. It's what is true for them. This is irregardless of results of studies, clinical trials, etc... and I'm speaking of true self-assessed beliefs that are used to give credit or discredit to the efficacy of a med.
Mutual respect in the face of differing views - it ain't easy.
Posted by Phillipa on March 1, 2006, at 21:47:17
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » linkadge, posted by Glydin on March 1, 2006, at 21:33:06
The debate is over. To each his own. I am going to start about four threads below this at the bottom of the page. One for those who like and respond to the SSRI's and SNRI's. One for those who don't like them or had no response or don't believe in them. Another for those who favor a different category of med. One positive one negative. And I guess for one that has posters who use a combo of meds to relieve whatever it is they have whether it be depression, bipolar, schizophrinia, Anxiety, Panic and any others. Just give me a few minutes to start them. Please. Thanks Jan/Phillipa I started this and accept full responsibility.
Posted by FredPotter on March 1, 2006, at 21:49:35
In reply to Changing Format of My Threadn, posted by Phillipa on March 1, 2006, at 21:47:17
we're having a healthy discussion. Don't split us up
Posted by wildcard11 on March 1, 2006, at 21:50:12
In reply to Changing Format of My Threadn, posted by Phillipa on March 1, 2006, at 21:47:17
Posted by Phillipa on March 1, 2006, at 22:06:40
In reply to Re: Changing Format of My Threadn, posted by FredPotter on March 1, 2006, at 21:49:35
I'm not saying I did anything wrong. It's just easier and yes I'm lazy to split into distinct categories so I see count the votes so to speak but if you like carry on with the discussion. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by deniseuk on March 2, 2006, at 6:40:37
In reply to Re: To Linkadge » deniseuk, posted by linkadge on March 1, 2006, at 16:02:41
Hi Linkadge,
Prothiaden worked for me for five years, in that I was depression free for all that time. I felt relaxed and motivated and had all my emotions. No bad side effects or anything
Seroxat worked for the three years that I first took it, I then came off it. Again I felt relaxed motivation and with normal emotions. Stupidly I came off it, three years later I tried it again and it didn't work.
Denise
Posted by deniseuk on March 2, 2006, at 6:42:40
In reply to Re: To Linkadge » deniseuk, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 1, 2006, at 12:09:29
Sorry, if I confused things by rambling on.
I guess my point was that, yes SSRIs do work brilliantly when they actually work.
Anyone who has experienced that light bulb affect when taking them will know this without question.
Denise
Posted by tizza on March 2, 2006, at 7:58:52
In reply to Changing Format of My Threadn, posted by Phillipa on March 1, 2006, at 21:47:17
> The debate is over. To each his own. I am going to start about four threads below this at the bottom of the page. One for those who like and respond to the SSRI's and SNRI's. One for those who don't like them or had no response or don't believe in them. Another for those who favor a different category of med. One positive one negative. And I guess for one that has posters who use a combo of meds to relieve whatever it is they have whether it be depression, bipolar, schizophrinia, Anxiety, Panic and any others. Just give me a few minutes to start them. Please. Thanks Jan/Phillipa I started this and accept full responsibility.
Phillipa you don't need to accept responsibility for starting such a passionate topic. It's been obvious that people feel very strongly about this for both good and bad reasons. I'm really happy that ssri's are working for you and thousands of others out there and not so good for others like me. People are just telling there stories. Please, please don't take it to heart, you haven't done ANYTHING wrong. I hope you are well and not stressing out about it, it's just been a very interesting thread. Paul :)
Your new threads are yet another great idea, please keep them coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 8:20:23
In reply to Re: Yes, posted by Comet on March 1, 2006, at 20:23:14
This is the thing. There are so many factors. IF I take a drug with such a marginal benefit, then side effects become very detrimental. For instance, many SSRI's created so many cognative problems that I was getting depressed because of how my school performance was dropping.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 8:21:43
In reply to Re: Opinions » wildcard11, posted by TylerJ on March 1, 2006, at 20:50:37
Perhaps most people *you know* are not the average, but most people *in general*, are the average :)
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 8:23:16
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » linkadge, posted by Jakeman on March 1, 2006, at 20:55:04
"Why would people pay billions over years for a placebo?"
When people respond to a placebo in trials, often they are adiment on continuing with its use.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 8:25:09
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » linkadge, posted by Glydin on March 1, 2006, at 21:33:06
Don't want to point any fingers, but ACE's posts come to example of what I am referring to.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 8:30:04
In reply to Re: To Linkadge, posted by deniseuk on March 2, 2006, at 6:40:37
It is difficult to know if it was really the drug that kept you better for 5 years.
For instance, depression often remits with a year or so. So it is impossable to say that it was the drug for certain that was doing it. It may have been responsable for a faster initial responce.
I was "reasonably ok" on celexa for a few years, but in hindsight, I was exercising a lot, taking fish oil, and other things that are helping me now. My life was less stressfull back then too, so I could never be sure that the celexa was responsable for everything.
Linakdge
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 8:30:59
In reply to Re: To Meri-Tuuli, posted by deniseuk on March 2, 2006, at 6:42:40
But placebos too, work brilliantly when they work.
Linkadge
Posted by Glydin on March 2, 2006, at 9:14:23
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » Glydin, posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 8:25:09
I get what you're saying, Link - I really do and I do think there's validity to your point.
Posted by Phillipa on March 2, 2006, at 11:00:26
In reply to Re: Changing Format of My Threadn » Phillipa, posted by tizza on March 2, 2006, at 7:58:52
They're not working that's the thing this just scares me more. I was hoping people would say they worked that way I could hold out some hope for me. Each day I feel worse and sleep later,and I'm young like most of you are I am old less years for a cure. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by wildcard11 on March 2, 2006, at 11:10:50
In reply to Re: Changing Format of My Threadn » tizza, posted by Phillipa on March 2, 2006, at 11:00:26
they have *helped* pull me out of the ugly pits of hell several times along w/ therapy. talk w/ your doc. (insist he listen), about how you feel. maybe another route would work better for you. it's just hard to say yes or no. they work for some and not for others. it's based on the individual. (((pj)))
Posted by TylerJ on March 2, 2006, at 13:14:41
In reply to Re: Opinions » TylerJ, posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 8:21:43
> Perhaps most people *you know* are not the average, but most people *in general*, are the average :)
>
> LinkadgeIf you don't mind me asking, what is your diagnosis and what are you taking for it? I know we disagree a lot...but I still wish you the very best!
Tyler
Posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 14:19:00
In reply to Re: Opinions » linkadge, posted by TylerJ on March 2, 2006, at 13:14:41
My original diagnosis was MDD. I have recurrent depressive episodes and a lot of anxiety inbetween.
SSRI's provided some help, but overall made the situation worse.I've tried, all the SSRI's, effexor, remeron, trazodone, clomipramine, doxepin, parnate, 4 difft AP's, lithium, depakote, tegretol, trileptal, ritalin, dexedrine, and probably a dozen others I can't think of.
In hindsight, parnate probably had the most punch to it, so I wish you the best on it.Linkadge
Posted by wildcard11 on March 2, 2006, at 14:28:00
In reply to Re: Opinions, posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 14:19:00
we have very similar dx's but i've been on diff. meds. than those you listed. prozac,buspar,zanax,zoloft,trazadone,lexapro,wellbutrin,effexor,klonopin and rx'd seroquel(for nightmares) but won't take it...and more i cannot recall either. have you had CBT or other types of therapy w/ the meds.? i know that the combo worked for me, not the med or therapy alone.
Posted by TylerJ on March 2, 2006, at 15:05:24
In reply to Re: Opinions, posted by linkadge on March 2, 2006, at 14:19:00
> My original diagnosis was MDD. I have recurrent depressive episodes and a lot of anxiety inbetween.
>
>
> SSRI's provided some help, but overall made the situation worse.
>
> I've tried, all the SSRI's, effexor, remeron, trazodone, clomipramine, doxepin, parnate, 4 difft AP's, lithium, depakote, tegretol, trileptal, ritalin, dexedrine, and probably a dozen others I can't think of.
>
>
> In hindsight, parnate probably had the most punch to it, so I wish you the best on it.
>
> Linkadge
Are you considering trying the "Patch"? Or are you feeling ok now?Tyler
Posted by TylerJ on March 2, 2006, at 15:13:25
In reply to Re: Opinions » linkadge, posted by wildcard11 on March 2, 2006, at 14:28:00
Thanks for the e-mail ... it brought a smile to my face. :) It's nice to meet someone who is smart ( you ) and has good common sense as well. Take care, hope you're doing Great!
Ty
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 2, 2006, at 15:45:56
In reply to Re: Yes » FredPotter, posted by linkadge on March 1, 2006, at 15:31:54
I agree with you re: placebo effect/poop out.
Reminds me of how studies on buspirone found that those who had previously used a benzodiazepine for anxiety did not respond to Buspar. The investigators did all sorts of stupid theorizing about this, but it is obvious that what that shows is that once someone knows what a real anxiolytic drug is like, they do not readily respond to placebos.
I see no reason why it should be otherwise for SSRIs vs. MAOIs/stimulants/opioids/etc. The notion that you have x y and z psychoneurlogical abnormality simply because you respond to a drug with an effect on a particular neurotransmitter subsystem is question-begging of the highest order.
The rich and privileged use the drugs of abuse as antidepressants, especially opioids. It is just that the physicians actually acknowledge their emotional pain as PAIN, their fatigue as fatigue, and so forth. Psychiatry is usually a very simple language game. What else does "I am anxious" mean within the context of the psychiatrist's office than "I want an anxiolytic". "I cannot sleep" == " I want a sleeping pill." The best psychiatrists are honest about this and use their medical knowledge to help their patients choose the most safe and effective drugs that suit their needs. Anyone that tells me that antipsychotics should be tried for anxiety (and psychotic states can be conceived of as the result of extraordinarly severe anxiety/neuroses) before opioids (or benzos, but opioids are often easier to discontinue) is compromising their own freedom and dignity by believing as such.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 2, 2006, at 16:12:44
In reply to Re: Opinions » wildcard11, posted by TylerJ on March 1, 2006, at 20:50:37
Most people are average. That is the definition of "average". There is something called the "Lake Wobegon Effect" (I cant spell it) which is the phenomenon of a majority of people believing they're all above average at something, e.g. whether they are a poor, average, or above-average driver.
Now, if what you mean is that most people that you know are not what society defines "normal" behavior as, e.g. not too much but not too little of anything, then yes, I agree with you. The average number of children per family can be a decimal, not just an integer. This makes sense, and yet there is no such thing as an actual FAMILY with 2.7 children. It is not that most people are not average, but that "average" is metaphysical.
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