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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 44. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 19:25:55
Okay, the Prozac isn't doing anything for me. The Desipramine has helped a tiny bit. Is there any point to keep on talking the Prozac? I've tried everything and nothing helps. Should I just resign myself to life filled with depression? I don't think I can do that.
But why bother swallowing 80 mg of Prozac everyday if it's not doing a damn thing.
Maxime
Posted by Racer on February 27, 2006, at 19:45:30
In reply to Should I bother anymore????, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 19:25:55
Aside from the usual -- "what does your doctor say?" -- I gots one question: how long you been taking it? If it's less than 8 weeks, I'd say give it until then.
If it's more than 8 weeks, though, I'd talk to your doctor about following up on the Desipramine, and let the Prozac go.
There's something hovering in the back of my mind, though, about this. Let me see if it comes to me...
Posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 20:04:44
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Maxime, posted by Racer on February 27, 2006, at 19:45:30
I have now been on the Prozac for eight weeks, but only 4 at this dosage. You would think that I would feel some effect by now. But I feel nothing.
My doctor just keeps telling me not to give up. Easy for him to say.
I am so fed up and frustrated.
Maxime
> Aside from the usual -- "what does your doctor say?" -- I gots one question: how long you been taking it? If it's less than 8 weeks, I'd say give it until then.
>
> If it's more than 8 weeks, though, I'd talk to your doctor about following up on the Desipramine, and let the Prozac go.
>
> There's something hovering in the back of my mind, though, about this. Let me see if it comes to me...
Posted by RetiredYoung on February 27, 2006, at 20:11:27
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Racer, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 20:04:44
I had the exact same problem: I took Prozac for some time and was actually feeling somewhat worse. Then my doctor suggested augmenting with Zyprexa. I don't know if you want to go that route, but it worked very well for me.
Regards,
Jim
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2006, at 20:17:16
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Maxime, posted by RetiredYoung on February 27, 2006, at 20:11:27
Maime if it hasn't been eight weeks at that dose I guess stay on it. Sorry you feel so horrible. Love Jan
Posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 20:22:46
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Maxime, posted by RetiredYoung on February 27, 2006, at 20:11:27
> I had the exact same problem: I took Prozac for some time and was actually feeling somewhat worse. Then my doctor suggested augmenting with Zyprexa. I don't know if you want to go that route, but it worked very well for me.
>
> Regards,
> JimThanks Jim. I can't take zyprexa ... I lactate on it. Also I can't deal with the weight gain.
:-) Maxime
Posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 20:31:50
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Maxime, posted by RetiredYoung on February 27, 2006, at 20:11:27
> I had the exact same problem: I took Prozac for some time and was actually feeling somewhat worse. Then my doctor suggested augmenting with Zyprexa. I don't know if you want to go that route, but it worked very well for me.
>
> Regards,
> JimHi Jim,
yes Prozac and Zyprexa do go well together. However I lactate on even the smallest dosage of Zyprexa, so it's not an option.Sigh. I am beginning to think I should just give up. So much of my time and energy is put into finding the right med and being deeply depressed and suicidal. 2 months in the hospital didn't even help.
Maxime
Posted by zeugma on February 27, 2006, at 21:05:57
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore????, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 20:31:50
> > I had the exact same problem: I took Prozac for some time and was actually feeling somewhat worse. Then my doctor suggested augmenting with Zyprexa. I don't know if you want to go that route, but it worked very well for me.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jim
>
> Hi Jim,
> yes Prozac and Zyprexa do go well together. However I lactate on even the smallest dosage of Zyprexa, so it's not an option.
>
> Sigh. I am beginning to think I should just give up. So much of my time and energy is put into finding the right med and being deeply depressed and suicidal. 2 months in the hospital didn't even help.
>
> MaximeDoes your doctor think Mirapex is an option?
Also, I remember you were on Adderall for a long time. Is there a reason your doctor doesn't want you on it?
also, maybe switching to nortriptyline will help.
-z
Posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 21:35:47
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Maxime, posted by zeugma on February 27, 2006, at 21:05:57
Hi
Yes, when I see him on Friday he will give me script for the Mirapex. I will also ask him if I can switch to Nortrip.My pdoc doesn't like medicating people per se. He didn't want me on a stimulant to begin with, but I brought him an article about the efficacy of using a stimulant with Parnate.
Thanks for you input.
Maxime
>
> Does your doctor think Mirapex is an option?
>
> Also, I remember you were on Adderall for a long time. Is there a reason your doctor doesn't want you on it?
>
> also, maybe switching to nortriptyline will help.
>
> -z
Posted by TylerJ on February 27, 2006, at 22:38:47
In reply to Should I bother anymore????, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 19:25:55
> Okay, the Prozac isn't doing anything for me. The Desipramine has helped a tiny bit. Is there any point to keep on talking the Prozac? I've tried everything and nothing helps. Should I just resign myself to life filled with depression? I don't think I can do that.
>
> But why bother swallowing 80 mg of Prozac everyday if it's not doing a damn thing.
>
> Maxime
Has your doc considered augmentation for the Prozac i.e., Lithium, or thyroid 3, and many others may help. Also, I think you will get a good response with the Mirapex and it is relatively rapid, for me i felt it working at about 2 wks. I can't remember my dosage however..sorry. It may make you a little drowsy at first, but that goes away and for me it worked well as an anti-depressant...so think positive about the Mirapex ( i know it's easier said then done ) I would stick with the Prozac for at least another week, ask your doc about augmentation strategies. Also, do you take any Vits/Mins? I think they help me a lot. Hang in there and best wishes-I know you've been hurting for a long time..I feel bad for you. :(Tyler
Posted by ace on February 27, 2006, at 23:19:06
In reply to Should I bother anymore????, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 19:25:55
> Okay, the Prozac isn't doing anything for me. The Desipramine has helped a tiny bit. Is there any point to keep on talking the Prozac? I've tried everything and nothing helps.
Really? Absolutely everything? Be honest
Should I just resign myself to life filled with depression? I don't think I can do that.That's not possible either...life is a wave, and no matter for how long you are depressed, that wave will turn around....but ofcourse the depression wave will turn around eventually too....
>
> But why bother swallowing 80 mg of Prozac everyday if it's not doing a damn thing.No Point! Quit it! Lets move on...tried every MAOI, every MAOI combo, Every TCA, ever TCA combo
Its easy to say...you feel overwhelmed right now...but just get to a safe homely place and start afresh.....and trust the universe,,,somehow/////
Ace
>
> Maxime
Posted by med_empowered on February 28, 2006, at 1:58:21
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Maxime, posted by ace on February 27, 2006, at 23:19:06
I guess I'd say try it up to 8, 9 weeks at your current dosage (Prozac works slowly, so you'll need a longer trial to really see whether it'll help or not).
If you can't take zyprexa, maybe Abilify? Or Geodon? Seroquel? I don't like APs myself, but they do help a lot of people.
I don't know how you feel about vitamin therapy, but it might help. Apparently, alot of people w/ depression also have low-levels of some B-vitamins, so maybe a high-potency B-complex, plus a multi-vitamin? I doubt it'll hurt anything, and the cost is pretty minimal.
Did you respond well to the stimulant? Stimulants were often used in depression, and are still used (along with mood-stabilizers and/or antidepressants) for low spirits...it may be worth while to give Adderall/Dexedrine, perhaps Ritalin, another shot. (Here in the US, I think the usual preferred add-on stim for depression is Ritalin, then the amphetamines...Provigil is also emerging as a viable option).
Adding BuSpar might help; it isn't the greatest med in world, but it can help out some people..it can also help w/ some SSRI side effects, so thats a good thing. Mirapex and other dopamine agonists may also be worth a shot.
Adding a mood-stabilizer might help. Personally, I think it **could** help, but you'd need to watch the dosage; too much and you could end up with a low-grade, drug-induced depression (or generalized apathy and slow-mindedness). I'd go for Trileptal or Lamictal personally, but I imagine depakote and lithium could help a lot, too.
Have you tried Wellbutrin?
Good luck!
Posted by JaclinHyde on February 28, 2006, at 4:05:39
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Racer, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 20:04:44
Your problem obviously is NOT serotonin so don't let him start that dumb med-go-round. There is the snri (Effexor) which hits norepinephrine as well as serotonin. That might be a viable option. And then of course I have to say it: MAOI all the way.
What ever you decide we are here to support you!
JH
Posted by fenix on February 28, 2006, at 4:54:11
In reply to Should I bother anymore????, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 19:25:55
To bother with something that doesn't help you will only make you worse and , in the least, keep you the same.
This extends to family members as well.
Posted by greywolf on February 28, 2006, at 7:09:25
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore????, posted by fenix on February 28, 2006, at 4:54:11
I don't know if you've gone the MAOI route yet. If you haven't, I'd highly recommend giving it some thought. After being on just about every SSRI, NDRI, SRNI, and TCA out there, I tried Nardil and found it to be relatively effective with few SEs. Even though it has not been the answer long term, Nardil certainly brought some relief to my life for many months.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on February 28, 2006, at 9:08:03
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore????, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 20:31:50
Hi there,
> Sigh. I am beginning to think I should just give up. So much of my time and energy is put into finding the right med and being deeply depressed and suicidal. 2 months in the hospital didn't even help.
Perhaps there is something in your environment that is causing your depression? I find I get suicidal with stress, so I therefore look at ways to reduce my stress levels..... I went through a period trying to find the 'prefect med' that would work wonders for me....I mean its easier to blame a chemical imbalance and to think that 'if only I found the right med/combo..' rather than face up to the idea that it might be your circumstances/history/hurtful thought patterns... Have you tried CBT? Sometimes, I think, its about control. If you have a painful living environment eg being isolated, unemployed etc etc, its often easier to try and change the things that we think we have control over, ie our medication, whilst ignoring the things that we think we can't change, eg unemployment, being stuck in the house. So we channel our engeries into finding the prefect med .
Anyway at any rate, I truly sympathize with you - its horrible. Being depressed in itself is depressing!! And thinking you're going to be like this forever. But try and focus on the things that make you feel good - a walk on a sunny day etc. I try to view medication as only part of the whole picture - there are other things that can help, eg CBT, omega 3 oils, exercise, changing your environment. Little by little things will come together.....have you thought about St John's wort???? I'm taking it, and I have to say, its the best 'med' I've ever taken.....and no side effects!
I'm really sorry you're going through this. I hope we can all help you through this difficult time.
~Meri
Posted by JaclinHyde on February 28, 2006, at 10:20:42
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore????, posted by Meri-Tuuli on February 28, 2006, at 9:08:03
Just my humble opinion here but if you are that down that you are suicidal, St. John's Wort is a bit too weak. All it is is a natural SSRI. If you are that down you need industrial strengh medication. Don't know if you mentioned this before but have you ever tried an MAOI? You sound the way I did 25 years ago when there was nothing left to try but the MAOI's. I was terrified of it because of the dietary restrictions. But you know what? I was MORE terrified of living another day in the hell that was my depression/panic attacks/hypochondria. I am totally convinced that if I had not taken that first scarey step I wouldn't be here today. I push these drugs whenever I can because I know that they will bring you a miracle. And honey, you deserve it.
JH
Posted by Maxime on February 28, 2006, at 11:14:48
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Maxime, posted by TylerJ on February 27, 2006, at 22:38:47
Hi. Lithium makes me sick as a dog. T3 - my endocrinologist won't prescribe it for me ... I'm hypothyroid so I take T4. I hope the Mirapex helps.
I take a bunch of vitamins that are suppose to help depression.
It's getting hard to hang in.
Thanks.
Maxime
> Has your doc considered augmentation for the Prozac i.e., Lithium, or thyroid 3, and many others may help. Also, I think you will get a good response with the Mirapex and it is relatively rapid, for me i felt it working at about 2 wks. I can't remember my dosage however..sorry. It may make you a little drowsy at first, but that goes away and for me it worked well as an anti-depressant...so think positive about the Mirapex ( i know it's easier said then done ) I would stick with the Prozac for at least another week, ask your doc about augmentation strategies. Also, do you take any Vits/Mins? I think they help me a lot. Hang in there and best wishes-I know you've been hurting for a long time..I feel bad for you. :(
>
> Tyler
>
Posted by Maxime on February 28, 2006, at 11:17:41
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » Maxime, posted by ace on February 27, 2006, at 23:19:06
Well I have tried over 40 meds. I have tried everything that is available in Canada. Been on Nardil and Parnate. Parnate worked but stopped working when I added Trileptal.
So I just ride the wave?
Maxime
>
> Really? Absolutely everything? Be honest
>
>
> Should I just resign myself to life filled with depression? I don't think I can do that.
>
> That's not possible either...life is a wave, and no matter for how long you are depressed, that wave will turn around....but ofcourse the depression wave will turn around eventually too....
>
>
> >
> > But why bother swallowing 80 mg of Prozac everyday if it's not doing a damn thing.
>
> No Point! Quit it! Lets move on...tried every MAOI, every MAOI combo, Every TCA, ever TCA combo
>
> Its easy to say...you feel overwhelmed right now...but just get to a safe homely place and start afresh.....and trust the universe,,,somehow/////
>
>
> Ace
>
>
> >
> > Maxime
>
>
Posted by Maxime on February 28, 2006, at 11:23:08
In reply to my suggestions..., posted by med_empowered on February 28, 2006, at 1:58:21
> I guess I'd say try it up to 8, 9 weeks at your current dosage (Prozac works slowly, so you'll need a longer trial to really see whether it'll help or not).
Oh God, 4 more weeks of waiting.
> If you can't take zyprexa, maybe Abilify? Or Geodon? Seroquel? I don't like APs myself, but they do help a lot of people.
I would like to try Abilify but it's not available in Canada. Seroquel also makes me lactate. I don't know if Geodon is available in Canada ... I will check.
> I don't know how you feel about vitamin therapy, but it might help. Apparently, alot of people w/ depression also have low-levels of some B-vitamins, so maybe a high-potency B-complex, plus a multi-vitamin? I doubt it'll hurt anything, and the cost is pretty minimal.Yup, I take a high-potency B complex, zinc, selenium, fish oil and a few others.
> Did you respond well to the stimulant? Stimulants were often used in depression, and are still used (along with mood-stabilizers and/or antidepressants) for low spirits...it may be worth while to give Adderall/Dexedrine, perhaps Ritalin, another shot. (Here in the US, I think the usual preferred add-on stim for depression is Ritalin, then the amphetamines...Provigil is also emerging as a viable option).
I was on Adderall and it helped. But now my pdoc doesn't want to prescribe it for me anymore.
> Adding BuSpar might help; it isn't the greatest med in world, but it can help out some people..it can also help w/ some SSRI side effects, so thats a good thing. Mirapex and other dopamine agonists may also be worth a shot.Mirapex is being added on Friday
> Adding a mood-stabilizer might help. Personally, I think it **could** help, but you'd need to watch the dosage; too much and you could end up with a low-grade, drug-induced depression (or generalized apathy and slow-mindedness). I'd go for Trileptal or Lamictal personally, but I imagine depakote and lithium could help a lot, too.I take a low dose of Trileptal ... 450 mg.
> Have you tried Wellbutrin?Yup twice and it made me psychotic both times.:-(
> Good luck!
Thanks
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on February 28, 2006, at 11:25:09
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore????, posted by JaclinHyde on February 28, 2006, at 4:05:39
Thanks, I was on an MAOI and then it stopped working. Doctors think it because I added the trileptal.
Effexor made me manic.
Thanks for your support.
Maxime
> Your problem obviously is NOT serotonin so don't let him start that dumb med-go-round. There is the snri (Effexor) which hits norepinephrine as well as serotonin. That might be a viable option. And then of course I have to say it: MAOI all the way.
>
> What ever you decide we are here to support you!
>
> JH
Posted by Maxime on February 28, 2006, at 11:26:54
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore????, posted by greywolf on February 28, 2006, at 7:09:25
Yes, NArdil made me very ill. Parnate worked but then stopped working.
Maxime
> I don't know if you've gone the MAOI route yet. If you haven't, I'd highly recommend giving it some thought. After being on just about every SSRI, NDRI, SRNI, and TCA out there, I tried Nardil and found it to be relatively effective with few SEs. Even though it has not been the answer long term, Nardil certainly brought some relief to my life for many months.
>
>
Posted by Maxime on February 28, 2006, at 11:30:02
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore????, posted by Meri-Tuuli on February 28, 2006, at 9:08:03
I agree with you. I do CBT exercises from various books. I try to stay positive, which is almost impossible right now. I know there is no med out there that is going to make me better. I will always have issues to deal with.
I wish I had the money to get away from my environment.
Maxime
> Perhaps there is something in your environment that is causing your depression? I find I get suicidal with stress, so I therefore look at ways to reduce my stress levels..... I went through a period trying to find the 'prefect med' that would work wonders for me....I mean its easier to blame a chemical imbalance and to think that 'if only I found the right med/combo..' rather than face up to the idea that it might be your circumstances/history/hurtful thought patterns... Have you tried CBT? Sometimes, I think, its about control. If you have a painful living environment eg being isolated, unemployed etc etc, its often easier to try and change the things that we think we have control over, ie our medication, whilst ignoring the things that we think we can't change, eg unemployment, being stuck in the house. So we channel our engeries into finding the prefect med .
>
> Anyway at any rate, I truly sympathize with you - its horrible. Being depressed in itself is depressing!! And thinking you're going to be like this forever. But try and focus on the things that make you feel good - a walk on a sunny day etc. I try to view medication as only part of the whole picture - there are other things that can help, eg CBT, omega 3 oils, exercise, changing your environment. Little by little things will come together.....have you thought about St John's wort???? I'm taking it, and I have to say, its the best 'med' I've ever taken.....and no side effects!
>
> I'm really sorry you're going through this. I hope we can all help you through this difficult time.
>
> ~Meri
>
>
Posted by Maxime on February 28, 2006, at 11:32:21
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore????, posted by fenix on February 28, 2006, at 4:54:11
> To bother with something that doesn't help you will only make you worse and , in the least, keep you the same.
>
> This extends to family members as well.Ha! you are right on both counts.
Maxime
Posted by JaclinHyde on February 28, 2006, at 12:08:56
In reply to Re: Should I bother anymore???? » JaclinHyde, posted by Maxime on February 28, 2006, at 11:25:09
That's right...sorry, I forgot you said that. So what about switching the trileptal to Topamax? They don't interact with each other and you'll lose a ton of weight to boot.
JH
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