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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 47. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 12:49:24
Wow, I've been on Parnate for 2 wks today and I am much improved! I am actually enjoying life again. My depression has lifted (I was in bed for approx. 2 mos. before starting Parnate) I have A LOT more energy, 0 anxiety ( would try to go off my Ativan, but I don't want to "Rock the Boat" ) but have reduced it by 2 mgs daily, social anxiety has gone from severe to very mild, I feel motivated and have a positive attitude for a Big Change! My wife says she can see a big change in me and says I'm much nicer.Heck, I can even Laugh!! What a great medicine, this is my second time around on Parnate, and I just hope and pray it doesn't poop-out. Side effects: Insomnia, but not horrible, I will definitely take the Insomia, cause the benefits are wonderful! Feels so good too feel "good" for a change. God bless you all.
Tyler
P.S. Forgot to mention I have a much healthier reduced appetite also-have lost 8 pounds in 2 wks( I need to lose another 20 or so ). Thanks to Remeron before this...which made me hungry as a horse.
Posted by WeeWilly on February 23, 2006, at 13:57:05
In reply to 2 weeks on Parnate, and feeling pretty Groovy!, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 12:49:24
Great news! I am sure hopeing it is effective long term for you. I will be returning to Parnate in April. It has only been effective in my case for three months in the past. This time I plan to augment with Lamictal and possibly other things. Best wishes.
Posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 14:04:09
In reply to 2 weeks on Parnate, and feeling pretty Groovy!, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 12:49:24
long time lurker first time poster.
several rounds with parnate myself and looking at it once again to turn several aspects of my life around.
having browsed the posts recently, and this is purely subjective, sure seems that parnate has a significant, strong, and positive following. nice is this is representational of a trend and to see a see a return to the ole MAOIs.
now that the hype is gone all thats left is the efficacy.
they are metabolically complex and not all that well understood. as aside to their non selective MAO inhibition, the increase of this over time, the variation of receptor agonism due to dosage, and that they also happen to work on cytokine modulation somehow.
meaning that i could never work out the proper dosage/admin.
i typically went into a 24 hour awake/12 hours sleep cycle.
made sleep look a bit like death! 8)however i ate EVERYTHING at high doses: like 120mg, monitored BP and never had even a spike over 130/80. Orthostatic hypotension was pretty disturbing though, passing out in front of friends is pretty embarrasing.
It sure makes life feel important.
tessellated
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 15:31:13
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Parnate, and feeling pretty Groovy!, posted by WeeWilly on February 23, 2006, at 13:57:05
Thanks Bud, yea we plan to augment also as needed. I've heard Lamictal can be good, also Lithium, Thyroid 3, Pindolol, and even Nueronton.
I wish the very best for you also! Let's stay in touch and maybe we can help eachother with ideas for insomnia, augmentation , etc. Take care.Ty
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 15:56:14
In reply to Parnate is pretty Groovy!, posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 14:04:09
Yea, Parnate can be a great drug for some people-the hard part is dealing w/ the sleep probs and of course trying to prevent poop-out.
I'll give you a list of things I'm doing different this time that is working for me.1) I went off caffiene, I now have maybe one diet pepsi a day. Different strokes for dif folks-but last time on parnate I drank a lot of coffee and d.pepsi, so I decided to try going without it this time and what I find is that I'm getting steady anti-depressant action this time, instead of roller coaster action like last time- feel good, feel tired, feel good, feel bad. Now I feel steady-good all day long!
2) I'am also doing a lot of vitamins and minerals this time, I'll give you my list and I do believe it's helping. A super potent mult vit with 100 mgs of all the B's. A super high potency multi-mineral(Make sure these are "chelated Minerals", omega 3 fish oil(lots), vit. C, Vit. E 100-400mgs daily, Niacin 200 mgs daily, magnesium citrate-go easy on this as it can cause diahrea, Ginko Biloba-to combat sexual side effects and increase circulation to the brain. Anyway they are working for me. Hey you take care and feel free to ask me any questions. I wish you only the very best. Tyler
P.S. I have a long list of augmentation ideas also-but only going to use them if/when needed.
Posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 17:25:52
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy! » tessellated, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 15:56:14
tyler,
right, taking it easy is the trick.
i was never able to sleep a normal shift.i was initially prescribed by a Pdoc who's mentor used it and considered it a "smart drug". as i am a "creative", i found it tremedously activating in regard to my visual system, previs, ambition, empathy, inspiration, intuition.
i went off on my own after a falling out with this pDoc, and did in fact augment it with numerous meds commonly countraindicated. As in my experience the poop occured round about month 6. the one combo not often discussed and take this only as personal experience, NOT A SUGGESTION, as I have yet to see any studies, was low dose parnate (<60mg) with medium low dose provigil (50-100mg). it was quite potent augmentation, i had little to no BP affect, though did find myself (as i do on high dose provigil) increasing stereotypic behaviors-i.e. grooming. it was quite pleasant, but not a productive use of time. it must be triggering an older (mammalian/mesocortical) brain structure, as it often reminds me of monkey man behavior.
also: seroquel i would believe is an odd combo as it antagonizes most of the same receptor sites partnate is intentionally activating. i don't follow the logic except as an antidote; for adverse effects created by excess monoamine action-like mania, psychosis, hostility, etc.
the worst part of parnate inho: was the brutal withdrawl.
like being hit with reserpine-pure monoamine depletion. from 6-8 mo's use I'd say it was a brutal 7-10 affair with a month or so of pure readjustment.has anyone really gotten the parnate sleep cycle down?
trazadone works, but does selectively enhance 5HT(serotonin) almost too much. Benzo's suck for the memory interference on a regular basis.i just never felt i had the true benefit of parnate consciousness untill about 12 hours after first ingestion. I'd just start feeling lucid right around midnight, so all nighters occured every other night! Got 40 hours of work done in 2 days! Then slept like a baby thoroughly exhausted and unaugmented.
tesselated
Posted by willyee on February 23, 2006, at 17:31:11
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy! » tessellated, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 15:56:14
> Yea, Parnate can be a great drug for some people-the hard part is dealing w/ the sleep probs and of course trying to prevent poop-out.
> I'll give you a list of things I'm doing different this time that is working for me.
>
> 1) I went off caffiene, I now have maybe one diet pepsi a day. Different strokes for dif folks-but last time on parnate I drank a lot of coffee and d.pepsi, so I decided to try going without it this time and what I find is that I'm getting steady anti-depressant action this time, instead of roller coaster action like last time- feel good, feel tired, feel good, feel bad. Now I feel steady-good all day long!
>
> 2) I'am also doing a lot of vitamins and minerals this time, I'll give you my list and I do believe it's helping. A super potent mult vit with 100 mgs of all the B's. A super high potency multi-mineral(Make sure these are "chelated Minerals", omega 3 fish oil(lots), vit. C, Vit. E 100-400mgs daily, Niacin 200 mgs daily, magnesium citrate-go easy on this as it can cause diahrea, Ginko Biloba-to combat sexual side effects and increase circulation to the brain. Anyway they are working for me. Hey you take care and feel free to ask me any questions. I wish you only the very best. Tyler
>
> P.S. I have a long list of augmentation ideas also-but only going to use them if/when needed.TYLRER STOP WORRYING ABOUT POOP OUT FOR GOODNESS SAKE........ITS WORKING LIVE,LOVE IT ENJOY IT,DONT THINK ABOUT IT AT ALL.
As for me i took a quick slide downhill,LUCKLY i now have been simplfying my augment to xanax XYREM and partial klonopin,and its working,although i still wanna see how this emsam pans out only because ive been on parnate 5 years i think it be time for a change,but the xyrem has been exactly what it was lacking for me.
P.S the slide got worse when my insurance changed and i went down from getting as many tabs as i desired leaving me always with parnate on hand,usualy 80-90 mg,more importantly knowing i had some.........to a now STRICT 60 mg and that be it.
Tyler what is ur dosage max??
Posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 17:37:42
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy!, posted by willyee on February 23, 2006, at 17:31:11
been simplfying my augment to xanax XYREM and partial klonopin,and its working
-man, xyrem and parnate-that's gotta shred.
the two only true AD's I've ever experienced.
maybe provigil a close 3rd.
provigil and xyrem is rock solid itself.
they balance very cleanly.
Posted by willyee on February 23, 2006, at 17:49:04
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy!, posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 17:37:42
> been simplfying my augment to xanax XYREM and partial klonopin,and its working
> -man, xyrem and parnate-that's gotta shred.
> the two only true AD's I've ever experienced.
> maybe provigil a close 3rd.
> provigil and xyrem is rock solid itself.
> they balance very cleanly.
You know it,my days of going on the same med,at different doses,diferent combos etc being at the awful mercy of an uncaring unmerciful "dr" are over,this is my fight now.I am picking my aresnal.
>
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 17:51:26
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy!, posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 17:25:52
Yes, the insomnia sucks. I am using Trazodone right now(pdocs 1st choice) It works well if I can FALL asleep, in other words it's good for once I can get to sleep keeping me asleep thru the nite but not good for putting me asleep. I'm currently trying benedryl for putting me to sleep. And I'm going to ask my doc for Ambien CR for those nights i just can't get to sleep-however I doubt he'll go for that. As far as Provigil goes I've heard a lot of people combine it w/ maoi's and it works well. Is it a stimulant? My pdoc won't go for stimulants at all. Hey, you take care.
Tyler
Posted by JaclinHyde on February 23, 2006, at 17:59:46
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy!, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 17:51:26
Hey Tyler, glad to see that your parnate train has pulled out of the station, lol! I have also caught that express train to happiness. And this coming from a looooooong time MAOI user (over 25 years, thank you :-) Never tried parnate before (Marplan was my hero drug) but because it does not induce mania (I'm slightly bipolar) it was the MAOI of choice. And woooohoooooo I am so much happier and finally free of hypochondria and panic attacks again. Not to mention depression. Yes, the insomnia ia a bit much. I stayed up the other night and cleaned the whole kitchen. And it was (dare I say it) fun!
JH
Posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 18:06:44
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy!, posted by willyee on February 23, 2006, at 17:49:04
so willeey
you're (sshhhh) self prescribing?
i did an ugrad degree in this stuff.shot up lab rats on pcp, cocain, amphetamine for smart research. never touched the stuff-totally legit microsurgery. go to school, put on coat, shoot up rat, cut open rat skull, operate on/insert thing into rat brain, make rat run on maze, kill rat, pop out rat brain (sorta like a pecan nut), slice rat brain, examine rat brain, theoretize how unprecise it is to stick things in rat brains.
thought i could self prescribe, did and made a one time error.
i would far rather find the appropriate support, so i'm Doc hunting again.
Or did you finally find the prop doc?
> > been simplfying my augment to xanax XYREM and partial klonopin,and its working
> > -man, xyrem and parnate-that's gotta shred.
> > the two only true AD's I've ever experienced.
> > maybe provigil a close 3rd.
> > provigil and xyrem is rock solid itself.
> > they balance very cleanly.
>
>
> You know it,my days of going on the same med,at different doses,diferent combos etc being at the awful mercy of an uncaring unmerciful "dr" are over,this is my fight now.I am picking my aresnal.
> >
>
>
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 18:10:04
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy!, posted by willyee on February 23, 2006, at 17:31:11
Hey, I've been wondering where you've been. Hang in there ( trying the patch when it's available is a good idea ) You are right, I'm not going to even think about "poop-out" anymore. As far as my dosage your gunna flip, 60mgs all in the morning per my pdoc. Remember I am a big guy (which my doc says does say makes a difference) and I have also needed large doses of meds-my pdoc always says I'm either a poor absorber or a fast excreater of meds. Anyway, it took about 3 days on 60 before it kicked in on tuesday the 21st. And, man did it kick in! I needed this cause I've been feeling like crap for a long time. I just went grocery store and experienced 0 social anxiety-feels great! And yea, I know part of this may be the Amphetamine like effect of Parnate that may fade, but hey I'll take it. Best wishes.
Tyler
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 18:18:05
In reply to Got that Parnate smile as well :-D, posted by JaclinHyde on February 23, 2006, at 17:59:46
Thanks Jaclin, you sound like a very nice person and with 25 yrs MAOI experience...Wow! I'll take any advice I can get from you please. And, what do you use for sleep, I'm taking Trazodone and it works ...okay, and sometimes not so okay! Take care!
Tyler
Posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 18:18:44
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy!, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 17:51:26
TY,
i've not heard too much myself about provigil/parnate.
the reasearch hasn't been done as far as i know.
so do not undertake w/o someones supervision due to all the typical scary MAOI stories.
there is very cautious use of amphetamine w/parnate for those with suicidal depression basically the last step before ECT (electroshock). now these stim's are somehow more selective than psuedoephedrine/ephidrine and therefore have a smaller impact on BP and vasoconstriction/dilation. whether provigil synergizes with parnate in such a way that it does not cause a BP spike is UNKNOW? as far as the lit goes. it does pose the potential.
provigil is a stim, used for narcolepsy as is Xyrem, but is vastly more specific than ritlan, coke, amphetamines, etc. i notice it to be something closer in effect to caffeine, and with a nearly non noticable SE profile. Though alas, there is poop.
Posted by willyee on February 23, 2006, at 18:21:10
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy! » willyee, posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 18:06:44
> so willeey
> you're (sshhhh) self prescribing?
> i did an ugrad degree in this stuff.
>
> shot up lab rats on pcp, cocain, amphetamine for smart research. never touched the stuff-totally legit microsurgery. go to school, put on coat, shoot up rat, cut open rat skull, operate on/insert thing into rat brain, make rat run on maze, kill rat, pop out rat brain (sorta like a pecan nut), slice rat brain, examine rat brain, theoretize how unprecise it is to stick things in rat brains.
>
> thought i could self prescribe, did and made a one time error.
> i would far rather find the appropriate support, so i'm Doc hunting again.
> Or did you finally find the prop doc?
>
>
> > > been simplfying my augment to xanax XYREM and partial klonopin,and its working
> > > -man, xyrem and parnate-that's gotta shred.
> > > the two only true AD's I've ever experienced.
> > > maybe provigil a close 3rd.
> > > provigil and xyrem is rock solid itself.
> > > they balance very cleanly.
> >
> >
> > You know it,my days of going on the same med,at different doses,diferent combos etc being at the awful mercy of an uncaring unmerciful "dr" are over,this is my fight now.I am picking my aresnal.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
I doc is great,she gave me tons of samples when she knew i had no money at the time,she is just frustrated cause unlike me she doesent dabble in reading about unconventional methods,so yess i keep regualr appts with her,i leave her up to date voice mails,but there are a few avenues in which i go it alone,but she definatly is active in my treatment.......and yess i have made mistakes that prob could cost me my life,but ive said this a time or two,i feel i am fighting a demon riding my back,literaly,i feel he is relentless,and he will attack on any given moment,so its crucial i keep him at bay,he has devoured me at times,bed ridden times,and im sure ill be there again but my cousin who surived being in wtc nows lays totaly motionless from the neck down with twin babies after months later being hit by a car,if that man can get up every morning and have spirit then i will get up every morning and fight this monster that has his claws dug deep in my back.At the particular moment hes only having one arm in but i feel him nipping at my heels always.
Posted by willyee on February 23, 2006, at 18:25:44
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy! » willyee, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 18:10:04
> Hey, I've been wondering where you've been. Hang in there ( trying the patch when it's available is a good idea ) You are right, I'm not going to even think about "poop-out" anymore. As far as my dosage your gunna flip, 60mgs all in the morning per my pdoc. Remember I am a big guy (which my doc says does say makes a difference) and I have also needed large doses of meds-my pdoc always says I'm either a poor absorber or a fast excreater of meds. Anyway, it took about 3 days on 60 before it kicked in on tuesday the 21st. And, man did it kick in! I needed this cause I've been feeling like crap for a long time. I just went grocery store and experienced 0 social anxiety-feels great! And yea, I know part of this may be the Amphetamine like effect of Parnate that may fade, but hey I'll take it. Best wishes.
>
> Tyler
Yess i was totaly devoured,and i recomend anyone in that situation to spend as little time here as possable,maybe even have a friend look for u on any threads concerning ur spefici drug needs,but if u are in the midst of totaly depsiar,dont hang around here please,and this is just my opinion,instead get on the phone,plead and get a canelcation,hav a family member drag u in if u have to,dont feel bad about staying in bed for a few days,as long as ur in treatment,if u have to wait 4 days for ur doc,rest in bed,watch some fav tv shows,allow urself to understand u are bed ridden right now,forcing urself up isnt always the smart thing,i know many "normal" people say this,but u know ur body,and if its telling u its that sick,do all in ur power to get help that will allow u to just rest in bed and sleep,just make sure someone is on the phone get to that doc.
Posted by tepiaca on February 23, 2006, at 22:46:27
In reply to 2 weeks on Parnate, and feeling pretty Groovy!, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 12:49:24
Hi tyler , can you describe how was the first
days on Parnate. Did you have some serious side
effects ? How much time to really kick in? I mean
when you said wow this Parnate is really helping
me now.
I appreciate your help
TEP
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 23:18:31
In reply to Re: Parnate is pretty Groovy!, posted by willyee on February 23, 2006, at 18:25:44
I totallty understand and agree. I'll keep you in my prayers my friend. Willyee, you're strong, so like you said, keep fighting the "Monster" (been there too many times myself) and I know somethings going to work for you soon. I say, try "the patch" and go from there-one thing at a time. And maybe later if you need to try something else try Parnate again and it might just work great for you when/if the time comes. Take care Willyee!
Tyler
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 23:24:33
In reply to Got that Parnate smile as well :-D, posted by JaclinHyde on February 23, 2006, at 17:59:46
JH, I forgot to mention that I'am very happy for you that Parnate is working for you too...Let's stay well!!
Best wishes,
Tyler
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 23:40:16
In reply to Question for Tyler ..... » TylerJ, posted by tepiaca on February 23, 2006, at 22:46:27
>
> Hi tyler , can you describe how was the first
> days on Parnate. Did you have some serious side
> effects ? How much time to really kick in? I mean
> when you said wow this Parnate is really helping
> me now.
> I appreciate your help
> TEPTep, The first days I felt nothing, I didn't feel anything til the 5th day on 40mgs (Just a little better mood) Then he upped the dose to 60mgs all in the morning (I'm a pretty big guy and have always need high doses for one reason or another) my third day at 60 about 11th day on Parnate and I felt noticably Better, and it kept getting a little better every day still on 60, I noticed I was becoming much more social, more positive and motivated, depression was gone, anxiety was gone-It is a "miracle drug" for me! II FEEL GOOD..,.AND IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING!!! Only really bad side effect for me has been insomnia about every 3rd night I don't sleep at all-But me and my pdoc are working on this prob. Hey, I'd rather have insomnia than depression, social phobia,anxiety, etc.I wish you the very best Tep, and don't hesitate to contact me for more Questions/support. God Bless.
Tyler
Posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 23:58:28
In reply to Re: Question for Tyler ..... » tepiaca, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 23:40:16
Ty,
Don't know you.
But my best approach to sleep was to wear myself out.
Remeber high school?
After sports eating, showering, passing way out?
If your healthy enough build activity.
Physical activity into your day.
Tire yourself out physically and your mind will follow.However take care not to over do it.
Just make excercise part of the regime, whatever that is.
Swear, it is the best....Put money down on it.
tesl8ted
Posted by TylerJ on February 24, 2006, at 0:32:20
In reply to Re: Question for Tyler ....., posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 23:58:28
That's a great idea. And I am definitely physically active when not severely depressed. I think I'll start tomorrow with a nice walk. Thanks for the advice.
Ty
Posted by JaclinHyde on February 24, 2006, at 13:25:49
In reply to Re: Got that Parnate smile as well :-D » JaclinHyde, posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 18:18:05
> Thanks Jaclin, you sound like a very nice person and with 25 yrs MAOI experience...Wow! I'll take any advice I can get from you please. And, what do you use for sleep, I'm taking Trazodone and it works ...okay, and sometimes not so okay! Take care!
>
> Tyler
Well thank you Tyler. Happy people are nice people, don't ya thiml? ;-) I take Trazodone as well for sleep. Works good. All the others couldn't put me to sleep without adding a Klonopin in the mix. Don't think about pooping (out...hehe) The MAOI's are the only drugs out there being used for depression and anxiety that doctors call a cure, not just a fix to hold you over until something better comes along. Here is an interesting, straightforward article on them....
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/
Depression/treatment/antidepressants/maoi.aspDid you know that there is a really great book abouut a mom's experience with her daughter on Nardil? It's called "You Mean I Don't Have To Feel This Way?" by Colette Dowling. Right now Amazon has one used for .51 It's very good and inspiring read.
Terri
Posted by TylerJ on February 24, 2006, at 14:07:05
In reply to Re: Got that Parnate smile as well :-D, posted by JaclinHyde on February 24, 2006, at 13:25:49
Thanks Terri for the great info and book, I'm definitely going to check both of them out. And you are so right, happy people are nice people :) I am so glad it's working for you too. Please stay in touch-you're very nice and sincere. And I promise to quit thing about "Poop-Out" :-) Take very good care and Keep feeling GOOD...It's so great to finally feel Good, damn good!!!
Ty
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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