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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by becksA on February 8, 2006, at 12:05:05
I found what phillippa said very interesting in that for seizure disorders, up to 20mg (daily?) I'm assuming it is, is taken. That makes me a bit less concerned about my dosing.
Another very interesting point is how radically different it can affect different people! some can get by with .25mg daily, which would be a sugar pill for me. I'm now on 6mg daily throughout the day (2mg 3x daily), and am probably going to ask my doc if I can raise it.
HOw much does the size of the person affect it? I am 210 pounds, 6'7". I also have had a long history of being extremely overtolerant to drugs, and able to stop cold turkey some of the most difficult drugs in which this is usually the case. (effexor, xanax....etc.)
I just find the benzo topic interesting (of course it does heavily apply to me so....yeah :) )
thanks
Posted by john berk on February 8, 2006, at 12:55:24
In reply to continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting, posted by becksA on February 8, 2006, at 12:05:05
Hi
I also use up to 4 mgs. of klonopin at times, somedays less, but i have a strong tolerance for drugs, although i am a 5'8", 175 lb. male, it has always intrigued me also how some people get by on almost micro-doses, my dad takes 0.5 and sleeps like a log!!
i would imagine your size does play a part in your metabolism, and also we are all unigue anyway in the way we metabolize drugs!! but i was on 2 mgs. from day one, 5 years ago, [i suppose i am slightly addicted, lol]
but i also have a history of alcohol abuse, so i imagine my system can handle stronger doses, or needs them!! it is quite interesting though...john
Posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 13:11:10
In reply to continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting, posted by becksA on February 8, 2006, at 12:05:05
> I found what phillippa said very interesting in that for seizure disorders, up to 20mg (daily?) I'm assuming it is, is taken. That makes me a bit less concerned about my dosing.
>
> Another very interesting point is how radically different it can affect different people! some can get by with .25mg daily, which would be a sugar pill for me. I'm now on 6mg daily throughout the day (2mg 3x daily), and am probably going to ask my doc if I can raise it.
>
> HOw much does the size of the person affect it? I am 210 pounds, 6'7". I also have had a long history of being extremely overtolerant to drugs, and able to stop cold turkey some of the most difficult drugs in which this is usually the case. (effexor, xanax....etc.)
>
> I just find the benzo topic interesting (of course it does heavily apply to me so....yeah :) )
>
> thanks
I recently posted that i noticed something,taking two benzos,seem to help lessen a high dose of either.Logic?........Perhaps every benzo although very similiar has to differ some where,in some degree,adding two might cover more sites and be more effective than one alone which may never cover a certain site.
I dunno but since adding xanax ive dropped my klonopin a whole 1 mg,and am keeping the xanax low as well,and basicaly overall im taking less benzo period with a million times more benifit.Now i guess the problem would be getting a doc on baord for that type of logic huh.
Posted by john berk on February 8, 2006, at 13:33:21
In reply to Re: continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting, posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 13:11:10
Hi Willyee, how are you?
that is a totally interesting idea, [although my pdoc would ban me from the building] xanax effects the GABAa subtype receptor, possibly somewhat different than klonopin, and also has a anti-depressant activity that i don't think any of the other benzo's posess!!
i am going to talk to my family doctor about trying that, he is more open to new options...john [i would love to lower my klonopin intake].
Posted by yxibow on February 8, 2006, at 13:33:38
In reply to continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting, posted by becksA on February 8, 2006, at 12:05:05
> I found what phillippa said very interesting in that for seizure disorders, up to 20mg (daily?) I'm assuming it is, is taken. That makes me a bit less concerned about my dosing.
>
> Another very interesting point is how radically different it can affect different people! some can get by with .25mg daily, which would be a sugar pill for me. I'm now on 6mg daily throughout the day (2mg 3x daily), and am probably going to ask my doc if I can raise it.
>
> HOw much does the size of the person affect it? I am 210 pounds, 6'7". I also have had a long history of being extremely overtolerant to drugs, and able to stop cold turkey some of the most difficult drugs in which this is usually the case. (effexor, xanax....etc.)
>
> I just find the benzo topic interesting (of course it does heavily apply to me so....yeah :) )
>
> thanks
I am also a big boy, in weight that is, a little bit more than you but 5'11. Its hard to say -- most drugs are based on blood level, and the size of the body can have little effect on this as we all generally have proportioned brains, blood vessels, etc. Its always been something I've wondered -- I do tend to metabolize medication faster and generally have higher doses than others, but that could be as much to do with my genetic makeup as anything else. Some people are deficient in a certain liver CYP that keeps a higher blood level in the body because it takes longer to break down things (if I'm recalling correctly, I dont have the information in front of me.)Alcohol is one of those drugs that is almost definately dependent on weight and gender, no matter how many brewskis someone can claim they can down and go drive a mack truck, they're actually intoxicated. They may have just cleverly over time gotten used to it.
So, who knows ?
Tidings
Jay
Posted by becksA on February 8, 2006, at 14:26:55
In reply to Re: continuing that klonopin discussion..interesti » becksA, posted by yxibow on February 8, 2006, at 13:33:38
THat's one thing I've never looked into, is two separate benzos at once. Very interesting, also very interesting why the topic has never arisen. I will bring it up next time I talk to him. The klonopin helps a LOT, (and I'm also still taking depakote which at this point I'm pretty convinced is mainly to also help stabilize the anxiety). Adding another benzo might even things out even more. i'll have to see.
Posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 15:50:02
In reply to Re: continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting » willyee, posted by john berk on February 8, 2006, at 13:33:21
> Hi Willyee, how are you?
> that is a totally interesting idea, [although my pdoc would ban me from the building] xanax effects the GABAa subtype receptor, possibly somewhat different than klonopin, and also has a anti-depressant activity that i don't think any of the other benzo's posess!!
> i am going to talk to my family doctor about trying that, he is more open to new options...john [i would love to lower my klonopin intake].I first seen it spoke of in google groups archive,they might not be the most civilest bunch of there but information is information lol.
Anyway i too,and this is a trend i think we have seen well forever about klonopin,is this....
Klonopin works,most people agree it does work,it helps.
Although it helps,no one ever seems to say they are totaly satisifed,they either find it helps to
a degree,find they have to raise the dose,or find that it helps but causes too much depression.After reading this one guys post i remebered it the other night about a little over a week ago,hurried to my pharmacy and was astatic to find my old xanax was still valid.
And i lie not,alternating these two benzos are SO
SO SO much more effective,xanax alone i felt dident provide enough anxiety relief,and the rebound was to robust.Klonopin alone i noticed a soggy depressed state,and now they are both dfinatly canceling each otehers problems out.
BUT heres the problem,the big hurdle youll have is WHY your doc wont do it,INSURANCE,they are gonna come back to your doc and wanna know why two benzos are being used.
Second your pharmacy will prob not allow it.
How to overcome these obstacles,talk to your doc and get the ok,then you will have to pay out of pocket for one of these benzos,when u pay out of pocket its your cash and no ones buisness.Second and im not sure if im allowed to say this,if im not please let the powers that be remove it,but in order to use two benzos u will prob have to use a second pharmacy,,pharmcy computers are equiped with a kinda red light stop feature,and will not allow or stop a pharmacist in certain cases from going foruth with certain drug combos.
Ive had this happen also with my maoi,where me and my doc agreed on a combo and my pharmscist said the system would not green light it as it said it is a contraditcion,i had two do a lot of work to get around doubt with the help of my doc and my phamsict.After that long drawn out problem is when the second time in the benzo case i simply used another pharmacy and i did not have a 3 day issue.
Right now i just took one half of a .25 klonopin and even less of xanax and i feel no anxiety what so ever,i feel totaly conetent with the klonopin dosage where as normaly a .25 would have me still shaking.We need to work togther there are just too many of us who are really intelligent to sit back suffer and wait for someone to stop our bleeding for us.
Posted by becksA on February 8, 2006, at 18:35:16
In reply to Re: continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting, posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 15:50:02
great post. thanks a lot.
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 19:42:22
In reply to Re: continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting, posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 13:11:10
Willyee I had two pdocs give me both at the same time with xanax being the heaviest dose. The klonopin I took .25am and lmg at bed with xanax.5 thoroughout the day. Never in all that time did I think klonopin was the stronger of the two. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 19:46:44
In reply to Re: continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting, posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 15:50:02
Willyee at the time I had good insurance used the same pharmacy and never had a problem and both were paid for. I was even on chloral hydrate at the time for sleep. Still no problem with more than one benzo. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 20:11:21
In reply to Re: continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting » willyee, posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 19:46:44
> Willyee at the time I had good insurance used the same pharmacy and never had a problem and both were paid for. I was even on chloral hydrate at the time for sleep. Still no problem with more than one benzo. Fondly, Phillipa
Yeah i had the actual problem with the Maoi,i feared the problem with the benzos so i autmaticaly took a different route,so as to if its a fact a pharmacy wont fill two benzos i was kinda giving a heads up,personaly i still wont take that chance,using a simple second pharmacy is just to easy to do,i dont want any problems right now when things are going ok.But if it worked for u thats good to know since it probuably means it wont be a problem for anyone.
As for the insurance,you also have your individual insurance,and they vary,and again not from fact but from pre emptive measures i used cash as my doc told me depending on the company some peoples insurance are picky and will come down on you about what they are paying for.
You had a gracious doc,personaly id still guess due to my own trouble that getting a docter to prescribe to different benzos could be a daunting task.
I know of a doc who refused this.Just make sure people know as much as they can so it all goes smoothly which is what we all want with this health system.thanks for ur past exper it sheds some light.
Last how to use them,well in the case of both klonopin and xanax i do as follows and this is why........I take the both as a first dose,with both being a generous amount.
Klonopin is long acting,and cause depression so that morning dose of klonopin will remain sufficient.......after that i will take as needed through the day minscure pieaces of xanax,this is to cover any anxiety trying to still sneak in while not making me tired or depressed.
Xanax is also short lived so klonopin stays working in the background the whole day as the short lived xanax is used daily as needed.
You could also try simply using both togthet on every dose just using very small amounts,i just found this way so far to work best.But i will tell u even if this doesent last,i now a very firm believer in benzos,we live once thats it,and i have LIVED this week,i have opened up,im talking im leaving the house interacting etc......so im now truly not in favor of any anti benzo beliefs,instead they need to be understood and taken right.
They are not drugs to just take in whopping doses,a person needs to find his/her own dose and have a doc willing to trust them to do this.
With benzos and lots of pillls i hate mg "sized" amounts,i always do better on a drug that can be cut,as i always find the dose i find effective NOT the dose i would be forced to use had i taken the entire pill.
Posted by becksA on February 8, 2006, at 20:36:08
In reply to Re: continuing that klonopin discussion..interesting, posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 20:11:21
I was on 3mg Xanax XR 3 times daily, and it did absolutely nothing to me, so im not sure, maybe something besides xanax. (klonopin does work).
This is the end of the thread.
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