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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
I'm having a very hard time lately, and it's gotten to where I'm ready to stop meds entirely.
I'm depressed, which colors my view of all this, and you should keep that in mind.
Anyway, lately I've felt so completely immobile, as though I was withdrawn inside myself, and unable to get the impulses towards movement far enough out of my brain for my body to work. Does that make sense? I don't think it's a lack of energy, or precisely a lack of motivation (although that's a lot closer), and it really isn't sedation. It's that leaden feeling in my legs, and when I force myself to do something, I can't keep it up. And I'm feeling worse by the day because of all this.
I was feeling some of this on Wellbutrin alone, but with a lot of tension, too. So, added Buspar. Now I'm more depressed, not so tense, and still paralysed.
Has anyone here experienced this and found a way to improve matters? Right now, I'm stopping the Buspar, no question. But as I said: I'm depressed, have been depressed, and had this leaden sensation on the WB alone, too. Is it worth continuing to take it? Not a good question, because I have pretty well decided to stop it and see if this improves at all. But again: is this something that anyone here has experienced AND FIXED?
Thanks.
Posted by Phillipa on January 26, 2006, at 20:04:02
In reply to Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds, posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
Racer I'm so sorry you are feeling so badly. You help so many of us with your knowledge. I wish I could do the same for you. The only thing I can do is be there for you and hold your hand. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by 4WD on January 26, 2006, at 21:51:58
In reply to Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds, posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
> I'm having a very hard time lately, and it's gotten to where I'm ready to stop meds entirely.
>
> I'm depressed, which colors my view of all this, and you should keep that in mind.
>
> Anyway, lately I've felt so completely immobile, as though I was withdrawn inside myself, and unable to get the impulses towards movement far enough out of my brain for my body to work. Does that make sense? I don't think it's a lack of energy, or precisely a lack of motivation (although that's a lot closer), and it really isn't sedation. It's that leaden feeling in my legs, and when I force myself to do something, I can't keep it up. And I'm feeling worse by the day because of all this.
>
> I was feeling some of this on Wellbutrin alone, but with a lot of tension, too. So, added Buspar. Now I'm more depressed, not so tense, and still paralysed.
>
> Has anyone here experienced this and found a way to improve matters? Right now, I'm stopping the Buspar, no question. But as I said: I'm depressed, have been depressed, and had this leaden sensation on the WB alone, too. Is it worth continuing to take it? Not a good question, because I have pretty well decided to stop it and see if this improves at all. But again: is this something that anyone here has experienced AND FIXED?
>
> Thanks.
Racer,I've had that feeling. Like your body weighs a thousand pounds or like you are made of lead or something.
I remember walking v e r y, v e r y, slowly across the parking lot to a store. It was like I could barely get my body to move through the air. It's a horrible feeling and the mental state that goes with it is just as bad.
When it happened to me it was because I had quit meds and gotten more depressed.
So, I'm thinking it's not *from* the meds. It's because the meds aren't working or have pooped out. I know you've been on about everything out there, haven't you? Is there something other than Wellbutrin that worked fairly well before that you could go back to?
I don't remember if you've tried the tricyclics or not. The first AD that really worked for me was imipramine and it worked great. You might have some prejudice against it because of the TCAs' rep for weight gain but for me it was not a problem - in fact the opposite. I was extremely bulimic when I started it and within six months I was in remission. When they weaned me off it a year later, I lost my remission and started bingeing again. And I didn't gain weight on it.
I did have some side effects, mainly dry mouth and facial flushing with dose changes, and orthostatic hypotension. I'd consider going back on it now if the Effexor/Depakote combo I'm on now doesn't work out.
Zyprexa and Remeron (as augmentation) both gave me a bit more energy and motivation for the short time I was on them - but for me they are not an option because of the increased appetite.
I know this isn't an answer but I wanted to post what I could. I wish I could help more.
Marsha
Posted by finelinebob on January 27, 2006, at 1:05:24
In reply to Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds, posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
Hey racer, long time no see (duh! seeing as **I** have been away so long 8P). Can't say that I've felt the same lethargy that you have, but I'm passing out of a very dark place and at the bottom of it was a time when I went off my meds. Not that that was the cause of the darkness. But at the time I just had a sense of being completely out of touch with some essential part of ME. So I went off my meds, knowing I'd probably get worse but also knowing I had to clear my head, my sight, all my senses. It really "zeroed" me out, tho, and once I knew I needed to get back on my meds I think I had a better sense of where I needed to go.
I'd never recommend going off meds for anyone who needs them. Not even to myself. But I don't listen to myself that well, and I was able to find some value in letting all those meds flush out of my system.
That I felt I needed to do that made me realize as well that my previous cocktail was not working the way I needed to, and so getting back with a pdoc I was far more concerned and determined to make a change.
Be well,
bob
Posted by Sarah T. on January 27, 2006, at 2:25:20
In reply to Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds, posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
Hi there, Racer,
I'm so sorry to hear you're feeling so depressed. This winter has been particularly bad, hasn't it? I've met so many people, both online and off, who have been more depressed than usual this winter.
I've been feeling pretty awful a lot of the time. Although I'm not on the medications you're taking, I do think my current depression is largely hormonal. Are you still on that medicine (what was it? Clomid?). A few weeks ago, you said that it might be aggravating your symptoms. Did you discontinue it?
I find that exercise is a terrific antidepressant. The only problem with it is that I have to do it every day, but then, meds have to be taken every day, too, so exercise is a medicine of sorts. I prefer swimming, but anything that gets your body in motion and the circulation going seems to help. I aim for about 30 to 40 minutes per day. It helps everything, physically, mentally and emotionally. If it's too cold to exercise outdoors, do you have a YMCA or other sports facility near you? If you have a hard time getting motivated to exercise on your own, how about taking an exercise class?
Another exercise-type option is taking a dance class. I took one recently. It was all adult women of all shapes and sizes. We had a great time moving to music. I felt horrible before each class, but by the time the class ended, I had undergone such a transformation that when I walked home, I felt like dancing all the way home.
I realize that when you're very depressed, the mere suggestion of exercise might seem like a cruel joke ("What?!! You think I ought to go out and exercise?? How can I do that when I can't even get up off the couch?"). But exercise really does have an almost magical power to transform mood.
For many people, exercise seems to allow their antidepressants to "kick in." A week or so ago, Linkadge posted an interesting article here on PEA, phenylethylamine, which is produced in larger quantities during exercise and during sex. It is also in dark chocolate. Just as endorphins are the body's own opiates, phenylethylamine might be thought of as the body's own amphetamine. The article that Linkadge posted suggested that PEA blocks the reuptake of norepinephrine, so it functions as an antidepressant, and that might explain why exercise augments or jump starts other antidepressants.
Do you have seasonal affective disorder? If so, have you ever used a light box?
I hope you'll be feeling better very soon.
Sarah
Posted by summerflowers on January 27, 2006, at 4:06:44
In reply to Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds, posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
I read that a leaden feeling in the arms or legs goes under A type depression.(or A typical depression).The main symptoms are the leaden feeling,oversleeping,over-eating,but only when depressed,the type of depression being situational,eg depressed like this,but a change of situation,like a good movie or positive feedback or praise can lift the mood somewhat.
Posted by blueberry on January 27, 2006, at 4:18:32
In reply to Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds, posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
I'm so sorry Racer. Geez. I know that place you're at all too well. Not doing well myself right now either. I think one of the worst feelings in the world, on top of the existing depression, is the despair of not knowing what to do next. For me anyway. I'm not sure how I get up and face another day each day. What "normal" people don't even have think about and just take for granted, we have to work at with excruciating effort and pain.
I do not have many medication suggestions. I do know that wellbutrin caused me the exact feelings you described, except they started about 2 days into treatment and it was bad enough that I couldn't keep going with it. Although wellbutrin is a mild NE DA uptake inhibitor, it "felt" to me like it shut down NE and DA release or firing.
Prozac plus zyprexa combination is the only thing that came to my mind. The combination will increase the firing of dopamine and norepinephrine. I know you've already had prozac. Not sure if you had zyprexa along with it. The combinataion is way better than either med alone.
Wishing you a smoother day than yesterday.
Posted by deniseuk on January 27, 2006, at 4:41:20
In reply to Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds, posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
Hi Racer,
I can't really relate to the leaden sensation in your legs that you describe but can relate to the other things.
I really think you're experiencing that blunting of emotions you described before and that I'm feeling right now.
Have you tried stimulants? Sorry if you've already answered this question but I was just wondering.
If you do come off all meds, have you thought about just taking an antipsychotic or Klonopin every now and again?
Denise
Posted by deniseuk on January 27, 2006, at 4:45:56
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds » Racer, posted by finelinebob on January 27, 2006, at 1:05:24
Hi Bob,
After you flushed out all meds what did you go onto take next and did it help?
Kind Regards.....Denise
Posted by ClearSkies on January 27, 2006, at 6:17:13
In reply to Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds, posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
I agree with the general consensus on the thread that you are probably feeling the effects of needing medication. I know that you have so many problems associated with ADs not the least of which is a lack of confidence in your current pdoc. He really does not sound like the right fit for you.
I also know that the cost of an initial consultation with yet another pdoc is an obstacle... but you are SO worth the investment. I feel that part of what is keeping you from finding a more sympathetic doctor is that you don't really think you deserve better care, and that this desperate situation is your lot. But if you took your treasured vehicle to a mechanic who told you to keep driving the car until it *really* breaks, you'd be pretty quick in finding another mechanic with more sense!
Get another mechanic for your self, Racer. There are good pdocs out there. Ones that don't become uptight and close minded by having patients question and challenge their recommendations - that's a matter of personal style.
ClearSkies
Posted by Racer on January 27, 2006, at 12:54:51
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds » Racer, posted by finelinebob on January 27, 2006, at 1:05:24
Long time no see indeed -- and I was just thinking about you. PM me? Let's catch up.
Posted by Racer on January 27, 2006, at 13:05:49
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds » Racer, posted by ClearSkies on January 27, 2006, at 6:17:13
>
>
> I also know that the cost of an initial consultation with yet another pdoc is an obstacle... but you are SO worth the investment.Actually, that's my excuse, not my reason. My reason is that I just don't have any confidence at this point that another doctor would make any difference at all. With that feeling being so strong, what's the point of going from doctor to doctor trying to find one? And, of course, I can't believe right now that ANY medication is going to make things better. I'm still in that place of believing that all the other medications I've tried are too horrible to bother trying again, you know?
That's the really hard part: I *know* that I have responded better to antidepressants in the past, that the way I'm feeling is the depression as much as the triggers involved for me. Even knowing that, I can't remember -- emotionally -- that I ever felt well enough on antidepressants to be worth the adverse effects thay had for me. At the time, maybe I didn't feel that way? I can't remember that. I just remember feeling deadened.
So, I'm too depressed to believe that antidepressants can help me? And the thing with the doctors is just about not wanting to go through that again only in order to feel as lousy as I have on the other meds. Does that make sense?
Clear as mud, huh?
Posted by Racer on January 27, 2006, at 13:20:37
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping me, posted by Racer on January 27, 2006, at 13:05:49
Posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2006, at 18:22:53
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping me, posted by Racer on January 27, 2006, at 13:05:49
Racer I know the feeling well and I sympathize with you. Going through the same thing right now. And the thought of another failure with a pdoc is more than I can take. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Ilene on January 30, 2006, at 1:27:36
In reply to Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds, posted by Racer on January 26, 2006, at 18:37:50
Yes, I fixed it, but only through chance. The leaden feeling was part and parcel of my depression. When I was in the hospital last October I was taken off Prozac and started on Cymbalta. Now I'm on Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, and Trazodone for sleep. I feel much better but not perfect. BTW, exercise didn't help. I know it does for some people, though.
There's a pdoc in SF who uses a type of EEG to help figure out what med is likely to help you:
http://www.drmarkschiller.com/Best of luck,
I.
Posted by finelinebob on January 30, 2006, at 21:14:51
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping me, posted by Racer on January 27, 2006, at 13:05:49
Gotta remember how to PM, hehe...
DeniseUK, I went right back to what I was on before -- nortriptyline and clonazepam. 'Cept my pdoc at the time was one of those overcautious about prescribing benzos -- so he prescribed it "as needed" and since he didn't mean every day by that I wound up never taking it.
Right now, tho, I'm the postah chil' for Bipolar Specturm Disorder. Especially since no one seem sto know exactly what it is, which sounds like me. The before-mentioned brought it up, tho, and just the idea of looking at some bipolar treatments when every always told me I was unipolar depressed with panic disorder has made quite a difference for me recently.
I guess it comes down to if you've considered every reasonable option, it's time to consider some unreasonable ones. Meaning, in this case, treatments for other diagnoses.
Posted by Sarah T. on January 31, 2006, at 0:31:44
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds » Racer, posted by Ilene on January 30, 2006, at 1:27:36
Hi Ilene,
I'm interested in learning more about the EEG you mentioned.
You said that exercise didn't help you. May I ask which exercise you did? Some exercises don't help my mood much, although I know they are good for health in general. I tend to need sustained cardiovascular workouts. I need to get my heart rate up for at least 30-40 minutes in order for it to provide an antidepressant effect. I used to notice the mood-transforming effects pretty quickly, but now it takes between 20-25 minutes before I feel anything. My depression is much worse these days (that's probably due to my unruly hormones), so I seem to need more exercise, and the first half of the exercise routine is pretty difficult. Often, I feel like such a slug for the first half. By the end of the second half, I'm always glad I put in the effort. But I do feel like Sisyphus. I wish there were an easier, less time-consuming way.
Posted by Ilene on January 31, 2006, at 0:59:23
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds » Ilene, posted by Sarah T. on January 31, 2006, at 0:31:44
> Hi Ilene,
>
> I'm interested in learning more about the EEG you mentioned.
>
Here's some more info:
http://www.drhamlinemory.com/articles.htm> You said that exercise didn't help you. May I ask which exercise you did? Some exercises don't help my mood much, although I know they are good for health in general. I tend to need sustained cardiovascular workouts. I need to get my heart rate up for at least 30-40 minutes in order for it to provide an antidepressant effect. I used to notice the mood-transforming effects pretty quickly, but now it takes between 20-25 minutes before I feel anything. My depression is much worse these days (that's probably due to my unruly hormones), so I seem to need more exercise, and the first half of the exercise routine is pretty difficult. Often, I feel like such a slug for the first half. By the end of the second half, I'm always glad I put in the effort. But I do feel like Sisyphus. I wish there were an easier, less time-consuming way.
I take a 1-hr. all-around exercise class that includes aerobics, weights, crunches, etc.
I.
Posted by Sarah T. on January 31, 2006, at 1:28:32
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds » Sarah T., posted by Ilene on January 31, 2006, at 0:59:23
Posted by Racer on January 31, 2006, at 13:39:27
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping me » Racer, posted by finelinebob on January 30, 2006, at 21:14:51
> Gotta remember how to PM, hehe...
>
>Actually, I meant BabbleMail me. If you do, include your email address, and we can go to no middleman
Good to see you, dude
Posted by Sarah T. on January 31, 2006, at 19:27:36
In reply to Re: Feeling paralysed, and thinking of stopping meds » Sarah T., posted by Ilene on January 31, 2006, at 0:59:23
Ilene,
Hi. I have another question. . .You said that you take a one-hour exercise class that covers all the bases (cardiovascular, weights, etc.). I was wondering how much of that time is devoted to uninterrupted cardiovascular exercise? The reason I ask is that I have found that in order to get a good antidepressant effect, I need an uninterrupted or nearly uninterrupted, moderately vigorous cardiovascular workout. Although I know that weights are good for other things (such as guarding against osteoporosis), and calisthenics help with toning, they don't seem to do much for my mood. I wish that I could benefit more from other types of exercise. It certainly would be more convenient.
Sarah
Posted by Ilene on January 31, 2006, at 23:45:30
In reply to Exercise as an antidepressant or AD adjunct » Ilene, posted by Sarah T. on January 31, 2006, at 19:27:36
> Ilene,
>
> Hi. I have another question. . .You said that you take a one-hour exercise class that covers all the bases (cardiovascular, weights, etc.). I was wondering how much of that time is devoted to uninterrupted cardiovascular exercise? The reason I ask is that I have found that in order to get a good antidepressant effect, I need an uninterrupted or nearly uninterrupted, moderately vigorous cardiovascular workout. Although I know that weights are good for other things (such as guarding against osteoporosis), and calisthenics help with toning, they don't seem to do much for my mood. I wish that I could benefit more from other types of exercise. It certainly would be more convenient.
>
> SarahSome days we do more cardio stuff, and some days more weights or floor work. I used to swim regularly, and I don't recall it having any affect on my mood either. I used to do about 45-60 min in the water.
I.
Posted by finelinebob on February 1, 2006, at 0:33:07
In reply to DOH! Brain [forbidden word deleted] » finelinebob, posted by Racer on January 31, 2006, at 13:39:27
Yeah... I forgot to turn babble PMing on, so I had to figure out how to do that. aCk! 8*P Soon, hon, soon....
Posted by alohashirt on February 1, 2006, at 6:33:41
In reply to Exercise as an antidepressant or AD adjunct » Ilene, posted by Sarah T. on January 31, 2006, at 19:27:36
I spend an hour at a boxing gym three times a week. It is a workout that is both tough cardio and with hitting heavy bags and teh like has a lot of resistance training. Its the only kind of exercise I've stuck with, and is a lot of fun.
> Ilene,
>
> Hi. I have another question. . .You said that you take a one-hour exercise class that covers all the bases (cardiovascular, weights, etc.). I was wondering how much of that time is devoted to uninterrupted cardiovascular exercise? The reason I ask is that I have found that in order to get a good antidepressant effect, I need an uninterrupted or nearly uninterrupted, moderately vigorous cardiovascular workout. Although I know that weights are good for other things (such as guarding against osteoporosis), and calisthenics help with toning, they don't seem to do much for my mood. I wish that I could benefit more from other types of exercise. It certainly would be more convenient.
>
> Sarah
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