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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 107 to 131 of 183. Go back in thread:
Posted by sukarno on October 26, 2005, at 7:40:57
In reply to Taking Stablon (tianeptine) with amineptine, posted by sukarno on October 24, 2005, at 14:38:13
ugh...I'm getting dull stomach pain after eating now. This never happened prior to taking amineptine 2 days ago. :-(
I read this is rare and precedes hepatitis. I hope not.
Is this a normal side effect? It's hard to come by information on either Stablon or Survector on the internet. An abundance of information is there for Prozac, but not for the European meds. :-(
Posted by sukarno on October 26, 2005, at 9:38:41
In reply to Re: Taking Stablon (tianeptine) with amineptine, posted by sukarno on October 26, 2005, at 7:40:57
I took Pepcid 20mg and it seems to have helped. I have cut back on Pepcid a lot in the past few weeks and the acid reflux has come back like it was before. Unless I'm sitting straight up at all times I'll get tons of acid coming up into my chest and throat.
I still can't find rabeprazole here. I looked on an Indonesian drug registry and it isn't listed, but they do have omeprazole, lansoprazole, esomeprazole and pantoprazole.
I remember after taking amineptine the first time I felt a lot of heartburn.. jeez.
Perhaps the excipients or fillers in the tablet aren't very good. Amineptine has a foul smell too. I only found the date of expiry on one strip of tablets and it said "Jul 07", but the rest look very old....the style of print appears to be old.
I know of someone who takes selegiline with amineptine, even though MAOIs are contraindicated.I'd do anything to get my motivation back again...except I won't take Pamelor again. That was dangerous. Smoking is probably safer. hehheh.
Posted by sukarno on October 27, 2005, at 8:00:00
In reply to Taking Stablon (tianeptine) with amineptine, posted by sukarno on October 24, 2005, at 14:38:13
I decided to quit amineptine because each time I take it, about 12 hours later my stomach will feel as if there is a lit match inside it... a burning feeling and dull pain that isn't relieved by antacids.
The good thing I can report about amineptine is that is does indeed increase libido (markedly in my case) and reduces worrysome thoughts. You wake up in the morning refreshed too. Too bad that I have to quit it.
Or maybe I could try PPI + amineptine?
I guess I'll try to explore the use of various FDA-approved Parkinson's medications since they are dopaminergic and dopaminergics are usually pro-sexual and pro-motivation.
Stablon makes me feel good, but it is a lazy type of mood elevation. Imagine feeling good or even euphoric, but lazy. :-(
It is an excellent anxiolytic though. In fact, I would say, the longer you take Stablon, the more anxiolytic power it seems to possess. I think it is better than Valium and hence I am going to quit Valium one of these days (in less than 20 months anyway. hehheh).
Posted by ed_uk on October 28, 2005, at 14:25:14
In reply to Re: Amineptine's delayed effect, posted by sukarno on October 25, 2005, at 22:34:48
Hi P,
>I did some reading about citalopram and apparently it does not rely exclusively on CYP2D6 so it might be worth a try for me if I ever discontinue Stablon... although I'm afraid of the emotional numbing of SSRIs.
I think you'd find citalopram too numbing to be honest. Also, I don't think you'd like the sexual side effects.
>Take care and keep me updated on the citalopram. Does it have any action on NE?
It doesn't inhibit the reuptake of NE at all, it's a very selective SSRI.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on October 28, 2005, at 14:27:28
In reply to Quitting amineptine, posted by sukarno on October 27, 2005, at 8:00:00
Hi P!
>Or maybe I could try PPI + amineptine?
:-( I think you should quit the Survector. You could still take a PPI for your acid reflux though.
~ed
Posted by sukarno on November 1, 2005, at 14:49:05
In reply to Developing side effects to tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 25, 2005, at 5:30:58
Stablon restores neurotrophic factor gene expression
http://www.servier.com/pro/Neurosciences/general/Publication_gene.asp
A recent article entitled “Regulation of hippocampal gene expression is conserved in two species subjected to different stressors and antidepressant treatments” , published in Biological Psychiatry by Alfonso J et al, confirms that the expression of numerous genes involved in the control of neuroplasticity, and particularly of genes coding for neurotrophic factors such as brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and nerve growth factor (NGF) are significantly decreased in animals submitted to a paradigm of depression.The authors measured the effect of a chronic (3 weeks) treatment with STABLON on the expression of genes involved in the regulation of neuroplasticity. The most remarkable finding was that STABLON is able to restore the expression of the genes for the neurotrophic factors BDNF and NGF (Figure 1).
These findings are in line with:* the neuroplasticity hypothesis of depression according to which depression may result from alteration of neuroplasticity in brain areas involved in the control of mood and emotions.
* and with previously published data showing that STABLON has a unique impact on neuroplasticity. These new findings contribute to a better understanding of STABLON’s ability to restore neuroplasticity, and lend further support to its antidepressant efficacy.
Reference: Alfonso J, Frick LR, Silberman DM, Palumbo ML, Genaro AM, Frasch AC. Regulation of hippocampal gene expression is conserved in two species subjected to different stressors and antidepressant treatments. Biol Psychiatry. Epub; October 2005
Posted by sukarno on November 2, 2005, at 12:22:19
In reply to Developing side effects to tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 25, 2005, at 5:30:58
I increased the dosage of Stablon to 5 tablets a day for just two days and experienced in the early morning a definite euphoria. However, it was followed by a sensation of everything being in "slow-motion".
I felt as if I was in a state of derealisation, but not panicky... very relaxed and euphoric.
Is this, perhaps, signs of anticholingeric psychosis?
Servier marketed Stablon as being devoid of anticholinergic effects, but Ed showed me that it does indeed have some effects similar to amitriptyline in that it can cause dry mouth, etc.
The only side effects I feel in the higher doses besides the short-lived euphoria is dry mouth and thirst.
Is this a dangerous side effect? I love the mood elevation as it is very nice to be free of depression, but that distortion of perception frightened me and reminded me of marijuana intoxication.
Posted by katekite1 on November 2, 2005, at 16:46:55
In reply to Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic, posted by sukarno on November 2, 2005, at 12:22:19
Hi,
With a dose increase maybe it suppresses the inhibitory action of serotonin on dopamine neurons, just making this up as I go along practically.
I wonder if that is sort of related to the visual disturbances people get during ssri withdrawal.
I wouldn't up the dose any further until the effect goes away.
I tried Stablon for a week or so, gave me dry eyes and insomnia, and cold toes (something to do with altered vascular tone).
Glad to hear you are getting a pleasant feeling from it.
Kate
Posted by DavidH44 on January 9, 2006, at 11:00:29
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic, posted by katekite1 on November 2, 2005, at 16:46:55
Just posted this on another thread, repeating it here.
No one has mentioned price. When I left Chile Stablon was about $1/pill. Taking 3x/day is out of my price range. How much does it cost wherever you are taking it?
And I'm really sorry to hear that Survector was discontinued in Brazil.
======== repeat post==========
I took aminemptine (Survector) for several years in Chile in the 1990's and it worked great. If it is still available in Brazil (where I visit) or anywhere else I'd love to know. (Don't worry, I won't import it . . .)I did some research when it was withdrawn, supposedly for abuse, but all the studies I found showed low abuse statistics -- and it was the most widely prescribed out-patient med in Europe for many years. The head chemist at the Chile firm that produced it under license said it had been withdrawn only because the French patent holder had a new drug (Stablon, tianeptine) that they expected to be more profitable.
I have not tried Stablon. As to its action, the chemist told me that they believed its mechanism was that REDUCING serotonin caused the brain to INCREASE dopamine, therefore producing an effect similar to Survector by a different method.
When I returned to the US no one knew about either drug so I tried Welbutrin since it was the only anti-depressant with a dopamine enhancer, and it was terrible for me: I had seriously uncontrollable episodes of rage that lasted for months even after I stopped taking the drug. Scared the hell out of me and my family.
I've tried a variety of things since then, and what seems to work best is something the docs say shouldn't work at all: a combination of low doses of zoloft and celexa, with amantadine (a dopamine enhancer prescribed for Parkinsons)
Just shows: people are different, and what works for one doesn't work for another. Psychiatric pharmacology is mostly flying blind, trial and error, not customized to the individual. Where's Timothy Leary when we really need him?
Good luck to all.
Posted by rod on January 9, 2006, at 12:58:09
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic, posted by DavidH44 on January 9, 2006, at 11:00:29
> Just posted this on another thread, repeating it here.
>
> No one has mentioned price. When I left Chile Stablon was about $1/pill. Taking 3x/day is out of my price range. How much does it cost wherever you are taking it?
>
Hello there... vianna calling0,44 USD / pill
I didnt have a good response to this drug at all..
bye
Posted by sukarno on January 10, 2006, at 13:32:26
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinog » DavidH44, posted by rod on January 9, 2006, at 12:58:09
Stablon is available in Indonesia for 50 cents (US) per tablet at the least expensive pharmacy.
Survector (amineptine) is $2.00 (US) per tablet.
Posted by shasling on January 13, 2006, at 21:58:13
In reply to Taking Stablon (tianeptine) with amineptine, posted by sukarno on October 24, 2005, at 14:38:13
> I need some motivation because my lack of motivation interferes with my quality of life and is quite severe at times. Even though I don't experience major depression since being on Stablon, I still feel amotivational. Basic activities are a burden for me. Mostly I just want to sleep all the time or just sit at my computer and listen to music.
>
> I don't like being this way and no drug but Pamelor (nortriptyline) has worked for this, however I can't take that anymore due to the large number of side effects I experienced...especially cardiotoxicity (e.g. arrhythmias, rapid heartbeat).
>
> I developed an amotivational syndrome when I was 15 years old, approximately 18 months prior to my first panic attack. The amotivational syndrome coexisted with depression.
>
**Sukarno, I have the exact same amotivational issues you mention above and know what it does to one's life. Have you tried Abilify? It worked GREAT for me, until I developed mental confusion, jumpiness and cognitiion problems. Maybe you would not have the same side effects... It was really the best thing ever up until then. Just a suggestion.Be well,
Suzie
Posted by sukarno on January 13, 2006, at 23:31:06
In reply to Re: Taking Stablon (tianeptine) with amineptine, posted by shasling on January 13, 2006, at 21:58:13
Well, I don't think I'd ever try a dopamine antagonist as those can cause tardive dyskinesia and are basically anti-psychotic drugs.
I think the risk outweighs the benefits with all antipsychotics unless you have schizophrenia or some other serious mental break with reality.
Dopamine antagonists also cause sexual dysfunction.
I wonder if there is a dopamine agonist (booster) that is safe enough to use along with tianeptine to increase motivation? I was thinking of pramipexole (Mirapex), but it can cause sudden, uncontrollable sleepiness...so that could be dangerous if it happened to you while you were eating or driving a car.
Bupropion seems to increase the risk of seizure and aggravate preexisting anxiety.
Perhaps I'll increase the Stablon to see if that helps any.
Posted by ed_uk on January 14, 2006, at 7:14:35
In reply to Re: Taking Stablon (tianeptine) with amineptine, posted by sukarno on January 13, 2006, at 23:31:06
Hi P
>Perhaps I'll increase the Stablon to see if that helps any.
I'd be interested to hear how it goes. Few people have much experience with Stablon on this board!
Take care
Ed
Posted by douglass on January 17, 2006, at 9:50:14
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic, posted by DavidH44 on January 9, 2006, at 11:00:29
hi, I haven't posted in quite a while so most of you wont recognize me.A little history. I'm a viet Nam combat vet(I make the difference between combat vet and vietnam vet because the ones in the rear didn't get the constant day to day trauma besetted on us) and a corpsman(medic) with the Marines.
Today I still have PTSD and major depression. I went almost 20 years before I got help for PTSD and the depression was lifted by prozac but it never really got me out of depression altogether. My VA Pdoc tried me on many fifferent SSRI's and every one had such bad side effects I will not now or ever take another SSRI. I have to admit it got me out of serious vegatative depression, but I was left with anergia, anhedonia, dysthmia, a lack of motivation, not happy but not depressed, just feeling like a lot is still missing.
In1994 I tried a French drug called miniaprine, it's mode of action was mostly dopaminergic with some other modes I forget now, I think nor epinephrine uptake was one but mainly a dopaminergic. It did well with me, I felt human again, motivation, pleasure etc. Most all I was still lacking I got from that drug. It was then I realized I may be dopamine deficient. I told my Pdoc and he agreed with me and we tried some of USA drugs but nothing worked like miniaprine.
I also got in on the last of GHB and that drug, although very impracticle to take a a regular drug for depression, was the most potent anti depressant I've ever taken then and now. I was only on it a few months when it got rescheduled to a CI and CIII for research. It's on the market now as "Oxybate" but very strictly controlled for cataplexy.
I then was on phenalzine then parnate. Parnate was the best AD for me but again the side effects were to great. Not the cheese effect but other things like myeloclonic jerks(a form of seizure you get just before falling to sleep). I stayed on that for a couple of yeare till I found out there was some amineptine available in Argentina. Before that I had heard of it and did some research into it and decided if I ever had a chance I would try some as it sounded like what I needed. In 2002 I sent away to Arg. for 200 tabs of 100mg tab amineptine(survector100). Aftrer about 3-4 days I started to feel a littlejump in my mood. As the days went on, within two weeks it had got to therapeutic levels and 200mg/day seemed right for me. I couldn't believe the difference between amineptine and all the other USA drugs I tried. There's nothing that comes close to it. GHB was the most powerful in it would bring me from depression to a state of exhilaration in a matter of minutes, 15-30, but the regimine was a strange one I won't go into as this isn't about GHB.Miniaprine came as close as any other drug to amineptine. My anhedonia was gone, I actually felt pleasure out of little things, I had psychic and physical energy, I was motivated to do things and finish them, was sociable and enjoyed talking where before I didn't enjoy talking , maybe because the emotional pain was too great to empathize with others, life was good again, I had gotten my life back. I kept sending for 200 tabs averery 3mo. or so not thinking it would be gone like the others did in 1999. I was devastated, went back into depression again and was in such despairI started my world quest for more amineptine. It became my life's endeavour to find another country that still makes and uses it. Brazil was that country. I started to find a pharmacy that would sell it. It took me almost 8 months to find one and I then ordered more and got it. Only that didn't last long. I being rather poor couldn't buy 2000 like this man in Br wanted me to do as he said it may not be around much longer and get some while it's still legal. No way could I afford that and within weeks it too was banned.Now I had heard of 17 more countries left not bowing to the FDA(what interest does the FDA have in other countries selling amineptine, well the politics are long, but the gist of it is money, get the old off patent drugs off market so new expensive ones have to be used). For most depressants amineptine would be their drug of choice and apparently in US there was a large group using it as the chat rooms were full of amineptine off market when it happened in 1999.Almost all european countries stopped using it with the French paving the way.
I still have some from a supply I got from another country before it too stopped making it legally.I don't know whAT i' going to do when I use that last pill.. I know there are a few countries left using it, but won't sell out of country for some reason. Uraguy was one, Paraguay also was one but now doesan't make it any more. All these countries were making it by Servier Co.. main office ifn France and a plant in most other countries or it was made by another drug co. for Servier.Chile was next, peru' I'm guessing that there are only about 5 countries left making it legally, I say legally cause the way the world works, there are corrupt countries that don't enforce the rules and maybe one or more co. are illicitly still making and selling it on the black market, but I don't know that for certain, just intuitive guessing.'My point to all this is if there is any one out there who knows where any can be bought I would like to know about it. You can PM me if you want or if you have some info from past I would be interested.
Amineptine has given me back my life that I lost in the jungles of viet nam and I will do about anything to get some more, even if it means borrowing money to get a good supply.
The only other medicine that would come close to amineptine is amisulpride in low doses, 25-50mg, as at that dose it releases presynaptic dopamine, but as you incfease the dose it starts to do the opposite and inhibit post synaptic dopamine, making it a very good drug for schizophrenia or any psychosis and when neg symptoms become troublesome, lower the dose to 100-200mg and it takes care of them, so you are constantly raising or lowewring the dose depending on how you are doing. At super low dose it's been clinically tested for anhedonia and works every time. I took some for a while when amineptine wasn't available and to my surprise it worked, not as good as amineptine as it has some side effects and because it's a neuroleptic theoretically at that low dose you could get some of the neg cide effects from amisulpride as hyperprolactinamia, tardative dyskinesia, metabolic changes as inselin insenitivity, diabetese, weight gain etc., but as an anhedonic, it did work and I was feeling good on it, not great like amineptine but good. If amineptine is stamped forever gone from tyhe face of the earth, then amisulpride or pramipexzole would be my next drugs of choice, but I don't like the cataplexy pramipexole causes.
Posted by shasling on January 17, 2006, at 11:57:16
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic » DavidH44, posted by douglass on January 17, 2006, at 9:50:14
Lots of good information there, Douglass on amisulpride, minapine, etc. I never got to try amineptine, but you know I don't think I've heard of one of us anhedonics says it *didn't* work. I hope you find some.
Oh, and FDA want's it gone for the sake of American Big Pharma profits. What would happen if people didn't take all those worthless SSRI's anymore? Nevermind that it can save lives. That's what we get when we let corporations run our government, but I digress....
Suzie
Posted by ed_uk on January 17, 2006, at 16:20:53
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic » DavidH44, posted by douglass on January 17, 2006, at 9:50:14
Hi D
How do you respond to psychostimulants such as methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta), dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine) and amphetamine (Adderall)?
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 17, 2006, at 16:36:17
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic » DavidH44, posted by douglass on January 17, 2006, at 9:50:14
So you took minaprine (Cantor)? How unusual. So few people seem to have tried it. Tell us more about its effects/side effects. What dose did you take? For how long?
Thanks
Ed
Posted by DavidH44 on January 17, 2006, at 16:40:22
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic » douglass, posted by ed_uk on January 17, 2006, at 16:20:53
Generally well, but not as good as Survector. I suspected I was in need of dopamine partly because dexamyl got me thru college and because my mother was a nicotine addict. I was very reluctant to take an SSRI so my Chilean doctor suggested Survector and it worked great. I find that Ritalin (Concerta) and Adderall are OK but less long-lasting, more ups and downs, and the one time I took concerta for a month its effect wore off -- ie it was dose escalating, and I didn't like that. Survector wasn't. I also tried Wellbutrin because of it's dopamine effect and for me it was TERRIBLE. I had uncontrolable rages that lasted for months after I quit.
I took Survector 1xday and felt effect by the second day. Hard to describe the effect, but it seemed to me that it gave me more energy by getting me to stop using up all my enegy worrying about stuff. With survector, things just didn't bother me as much, so I did more things, enjoyed things more.
OK, here's another bit of info: I had stopped ADs for about a year. The reason I started again was that I was part of an asthma study where they put me on Prednisone for 12 days. I felt better than I ever had in my life, and got more done in two weeks than in the two years previously. You can't keep taking prednisone, but I figured that if some chemical could improve my life that much, there must be another one . . . Unfortunately I haven't found it yet.
D
Posted by ed_uk on January 18, 2006, at 9:44:22
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic, posted by DavidH44 on January 17, 2006, at 16:40:22
Perhaps Concerta would work well for you in combination with a more 'standard' antidepressant?
Ed
Posted by DavidH44 on January 18, 2006, at 12:00:56
In reply to Re: Stablon is anticholinergic? Mildly hallucinogenic » DavidH44, posted by ed_uk on January 18, 2006, at 9:44:22
Thanks. Everyone reacts differently to these drugs, so it's just trial and error. The best I've found so far (aside from Survector and prednisone!) is small doses of zoloft and celexa, plus amantadine. Right now I'm trying Stablon and it seems reasonably good. Problem is, there are too many variables in life to evaluate drug effect.
D.
> Perhaps Concerta would work well for you in combination with a more 'standard' antidepressant?
>
> Ed
Posted by sukarno on September 9, 2006, at 8:17:29
In reply to Re: Tianeptine tolerance, depression returns » sukarno, posted by ed_uk on July 9, 2005, at 11:42:54
Is there anyone else here on Stablon? I'm taking 12.5mg QID (4x/day) and am doing quite well. I take one tablet every 6 hours and that seems to have eliminated the "see-saw" effect. I do feel a consistent antidepressant effect. Reducing the dosage of Stablon to TID (3x/day) results in relapse of depression and anxiety.
I'm also on diazepam (Valium) 10mg BID and famotidine 40mg QID.
I tried lansoprazole (Prevacid) 15mg/day and it stopped the GERD too, but it also caused me to regurgitate quite frequently and sometimes at night (I would wake up almost choking on refluxate... can you choke to death if you regurgitate food at night while sleeping?).
I then had a high fever on day 10 of Prevacid treatment. Quitting resulted in the fever disappearing the following day. I quit Prevacid for one month and tried a rechallenge. Fever and bone pain returned on day 3.
(I read later that PPIs all readily convert into a sulfonamide after ingestion and I've read that people allergic to sulfa antibiotics also have allergies to PPIs.) I only had a fever on Prevacid, so could that be an allergy? It sure seems like some sort of immune response.
I'm not sure if it is a good idea to try another PPI if I'm hypersensitive to the sulfonamide. I hope I'm only sensitive to the parent drug.
It seems that in panic disorder, depression and GERD both coexist frequently. I'm trying to treat all three.Diazepam is an excellent medication for the anxiety, but it does have adverse effects on memory at times and persistent daytime drowsiness despite having taken it or other benzodiazepines for 16 years. I wish I could quit taking it, but it isn't easy. I haven't experienced any significant withdrawal symptoms from tapering the dose, but I did experience more panic attacks (I don't believe they were rebound attacks...it seemed to be the classic attacks that were returning when I had been on 12mg/day for at least two months. I had reduced tianeptine to 12.5mg 3x/day at that time, so that could have been another factor.)
Tianeptine works very well for reducing worrisome thoughts and other psychic tension. It also helps mildly to moderately for the depression. It would probably be a great adjunct to any anxiolytic regimen. I actually have S.A.D. and should use my lightbox, but taking tianeptine (Stablon) is easier and has other benefits such as helping my asthma.
I have read that tianeptine is efficacious in panic disorder, but I haven't been able to try it as monotherapy yet.I'm glad I toughed it out through those first weeks on Stablon because it has really paid off in the long term. :-) Definitely, in my experience, tianeptine is easier to tolerate than SSRIs or other tricyclic antidepressants and there are almost no side effects with extended use.
Taking it four times a day seems to be the right amount for me. I hope others can share their experiences with this medication.:-)
Posted by psychobot5000 on September 10, 2006, at 10:38:41
In reply to 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on September 9, 2006, at 8:17:29
Hi,
I've been on tianeptine 12.5mg 3/day for...perhaps sixteen months, and it is the best med I've found so far, though it's not a complete fix.
I take it for anergic, anhedonic, asthenic depression. It elevates my mood as much as any medication (which is not enough to make me feel good, but at least brings me out of the horrible pits), without any significant side-effects. SSRIs, for example, were no better, but increased my anxiety, gave me awful stomach problems, prevented me from sleeping...etc etc.
Tianeptine eliminates my depression-related stomach troubles, and helps mildly with my anxiety, as well as elevating my mood. No increase in difficulty sleeping, no irrition, nothing like that, though I am still left without much motivation. I have tried many augmentors, but none seems to do much.
Tried 25mg 3/day for a couple weeks once, but it made me feel a little strange, and at that dose I got dry mouth. Wasn't able to convince myself that there was any additional mood benefit.
In sum, I wish its antidepressant effect were stronger, but it's effective in that regard, helps me breath a little better, helps with anxiety and irrational worrying, helps with my abdominal pain, helps with other random somatic pain (like many depressives, I suffer from increased pain-sensitivity--Tianeptine eliminates that), and has no significant side-effects. Upping the dose was not useful for me.
If you're dealing with depression, anxiety, and stomach issues, I'd recommend Remeron/mirtazapine. It was a good anxiolytic and antidepressant, but can be very sedating. It wasn't hard on the stomach, like many other meds can be (I hate SSRIs).
Have you tried ranitidine or famotidine for your GERD? They can be effective acid-reducers, but you have to be a little careful about interactions--they may effect liver enzymes and raise the levels of other meds. My doc, however, says that it's mostly their sister cimetidine that does that, and that ranitidine and famotidine are okay, as well as being effective against GERD.
For myself, I just wish Stablon had more effect on my lack of motivation and pleasure. It makes me more laid back and relaxed, but...I'm drive deficient.
Supplementing with stimulants or a dopaminergic (tianeptine does not seem to actually be very dopaminergic) seems like natural augmentation strategies for tianeptine. I have heard some people say they are effective.
Hope this is useful,
P-bot
Posted by Last Chance on September 10, 2006, at 11:06:29
In reply to 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on September 9, 2006, at 8:17:29
Sukarno - maybe I quit too soon with the Tianeptine? I should have kept a journal, because I can't remember why I stopped - I know that I got headaches both times I tried, and I must have felt no benefit. The 2nd attempt I tried harder, a couple weeks. What were the side effects you encountered, and about how much time passed before you felt like it was working? I am still on half 6mg Emsam, and am feeling terrible lately - thinking of stopping, but not sure what withdrawal symptoms to expect - could not handle feeling any worse than right now.
Posted by sukarno on September 11, 2006, at 3:47:26
In reply to Re: 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon) » sukarno, posted by Last Chance on September 10, 2006, at 11:06:29
"Sukarno - maybe I quit too soon with the Tianeptine? I should have kept a journal, because I can't remember why I stopped - I know that I got headaches both times I tried, and I must have felt no benefit."
Hi there! :-) Yeah, I had a lot of headaches when I first started taking it. I wasn't sure if it was the Stablon or my computer monitor (which gave me eyestrain and headaches before I started Stablon). I think Stablon does cause some headaches at the beginning of treatment.
"The 2nd attempt I tried harder, a couple weeks. What were the side effects you encountered, and about how much time passed before you felt like it was working?"
I would try it again for about 4 to 8 weeks. It seems that tianeptine takes as long as any standard antidepressant to begin working. I don't think tianeptine works any faster than the other antidepressants. I felt the first effects 12 days into treatment, but the full anxiolytic and antidepressant effects took at least 6 weeks.
The first side effects were some headaches, nervousness (but nothing that would cause a panic attack), decreased appetite and partial insomnia. Those gradually disappeared and my mood was much better and I felt much more relaxed. Now I have no side effects except for an occasional mild dry mouth which only lasts a few hours when it does happen.
I hope you can give it another try. You can always lower the dose if you experience side effects and then increase it again after you stabilise for a while. I found that I need 4 tablets a day for it to work. Three tablets just wasn't enough to keep the depression at bay.
Good luck to you! I hope it all works out. Let me know if you start taking Stablon again. :-)
Cheers,
Sukarno
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