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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tecknohed on December 19, 2005, at 1:01:47
Firstly I must point out that I'm not advocating the purchase of drugs online and will mention no sources. But I know lots of people do it so it's those people who I'm asking for opinions from.
OK. I ordered 30 Xanax 1mg from an online company. At first I thought I'd been ripped off cause I've been waiting ages, but I now have a letter from HM Revenue & Customs saying they have seized my "30 UNITS OF CLASS C DRUG received from Pakistan."
The letter is full of legal jargon, and so is the enclosed booklet. It doesn't really give any clear anwers, nothing I can get my (poor mental health ridden) head round anyway.
So, do any of you know how the system works? And could you explain a little in plain English? How can I get them to give me what I PAYED FOR? Will claiming they are for personal use make a difference? I'm not afraid of going to a magistrates court as the letter explains these are not criminal proceedings, but civil proceedings. Infact, despite it sounding like alot of fuss over a few pills, I would find it interesting, exciting even (hey, I'm on Nardil, what you expect lol). Plus, it's the principle of the matter. Though it might cost a lot.
I bought them for my own PERSONAL use, and although a class C drug, its hardly a drug of abuse, and addiction is unlikely from as-needed use. And anyway, Pakistan is a bit far to be my source to feed a 'habit'!
So what are my chances people? Any comments? How should I go about this? I'm VERY keen to get back what I payed for. I basically feel 'robbed'.
Cheers.
Posted by Tom Twilight on December 19, 2005, at 4:36:38
In reply to UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 19, 2005, at 1:01:47
Hey Kev
Thats absolutely infureating!
I though UK citizens were allowed to import drugs for their own personal use.
Unfortunatly I can't offer any practical advice at the moment
I'm going to look into it though........
Posted by Sarah T. on December 19, 2005, at 4:54:20
In reply to UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 19, 2005, at 1:01:47
From the little I know about these things, I think that Customs did you an enormous favor. Today, in the U.S., a huge shipment of FAKE Tamiflu vaccine from Asia was intercepted by U.S. Customs agents in San Francisco. Can you imagine going for the Tamiflu vaccination, paying for it, believing you're protected against the deadly bird flu, only to discover that the vaccine you received was FAKE? If you're lucky, the FAKE medicine would be just sugar water or saline solution. If you're unlucky, Lord only knows what you'd be getting.
How much did you pay for the product that was confiscated? I don't know how you can get your money back. Try writing to the organization that sold you the product and tell them what happened. Other than that, I think it's best not to buy medicines from Internet pharmacies. Find a reputable doctor in your town, get a prescription, and go to a reputable pharmacy. By the way, even in the U.S., there is a problem with counterfeit drugs being sold at reputable pharmacies. If that problem can't be stopped in the U.S. with all the policing that goes on here, then can you imagine how much counterfeiting goes on overseas and at Internet pharmacies, where there is no oversight? In addition to not knowing what's really in the pills being sold over the Internet, I'd be worried about giving my credit card number to some stranger at a P.O. Box, half a world away.
My doctor told me that there is ONLY ONE reputable Internet pharmacy, and that is Victoria Pharmacy, in Zurich, Switzerland. If you can't get what you want from them, then get your medicines locally, from doctors and pharmacies you know and trust. That way, if something bad happens (for example, if you get sick), at least you have some recourse.
Posted by xbunny on December 19, 2005, at 7:48:56
In reply to UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 19, 2005, at 1:01:47
I would phone the citizens advice bureau for advice on it. Buns
Posted by tecknohed on December 19, 2005, at 8:06:03
In reply to Re: It's probably just as well. . . » tecknohed, posted by Sarah T. on December 19, 2005, at 4:54:20
Thanks Sarah T. You made some interesting points. Dud pills would 'seem' like an obvious problem, as the vaccine seizure shows. But this is hardly the same. I think I'm correct in saying that Xanax and other benzos are so cheap to make, and have such a relatively small profit margin, there would be little point in making 'duds'.
The vaccine on the other hand is no surprise at all. With world wide pannick and the increasing shortage of the vaccine, not to mention the price of the stuff, someone was bound to try taking advantage of the situation.I beleive it happens alot with Patented drugs too. Because there is not yet a generic, drug companies get away with such extortionate pricing, someones going to want to take advantage.
Then, as soon as the generics come out, prices go down and the scammers loose interest.Anyway, I just rang up Customs. They say the drugs were simply wrapped in newspaper (!!!) and had no identifiable labling or documents other than my address. Apparently, it could have been anything, even though my letter clearly says 'class C drug', so they couldn't have been that hard to identify.
All seems very petty to me. They know what the pills are, my address is on the packet, so why dont they send me my flippin' parcel! GGgrrrrrr!
I'm not despirate for them, I only take benzos occasionally and I have plenty of Klonipin. But for those of you who have ordered similar things online, then you'll probably share my frustration in haveing to wait...and wait...AND WAIT! And by the time they do arrive, you've already given up and ordered some from somewhere else! Those damn conventional & stubborn UK docs, its all thier fault!Never mind me. I have a swollen foot and it kills like hell (edema I think). Off to the doc's soon. Nice man.
;-)
Posted by james_glasgow on December 19, 2005, at 8:32:40
In reply to Re: It's probably just as well. . . » Sarah T., posted by tecknohed on December 19, 2005, at 8:06:03
Hi there
I am afraid HM Revenue & Customs are right. Benzodiazpines are Schedule 4 Class C drugs pursuant to the Misuse of Drugs legislation. It is illegal to import or export them in the UK without a license.
You can only import medicine that is a P*M (prescription only medicine) under the Medicines Act if it is not a Controlled Substance.
James
Posted by jamestheyonger on December 19, 2005, at 12:19:30
In reply to Re: It's probably just as well. . ., posted by james_glasgow on December 19, 2005, at 8:32:40
It is illegal to receive meds without a prescription, so if you do not have one for the Xanax that I would leave this one alone and be glad you were not arrested.
Posted by ed_uk on December 19, 2005, at 13:13:10
In reply to UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 19, 2005, at 1:01:47
Hi Kev
I'm sorry they took your Xanax :-(
Because Xanax is a class C controlled drug in the UK, it's illegal to possess it without having recived a doctor's prescription. Customs won't send your Xanax :-( Don't take any further action, you don't want to get yourself into trouble!
AFAIK, UK customs officials won't seize medication unless it's a controlled drug.
Regards
Ed
Posted by Declan on December 19, 2005, at 17:30:58
In reply to UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 19, 2005, at 1:01:47
I have had no trouble (this is Australia) with
vinpocetine
hydergine
deprenyl
bromocriptine
cabergoline
cialis
but that was as far as I wanted to push the envelope. OTOH some goji berries disapppeared into customs, and maybe a pound of white tea as well. There's nothing you can do about it IMO. But you are right to feel robbed.
Declan
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2005, at 19:50:06
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by Declan on December 19, 2005, at 17:30:58
Declan, from a mutual friend of mine I know it's not illegal to get even valium from the internet in Australia. How come the laws are so different there? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Tom Twilight on December 20, 2005, at 5:13:15
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please! » Declan, posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2005, at 19:50:06
Is it truly impossible to order Benzo's online and get them into the UK?
If thats the case then I'm not happy, not much I can do though.......Regarding fake meds there are a lot of them out there on the internet.
I ordered some Clonazepam which ironically did get through customs.
Unfortunatly it turned out to be fake!Buyer beware!
Posted by NikkiT2 on December 20, 2005, at 13:17:16
In reply to UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 19, 2005, at 1:01:47
If you have a prescription for these, then you'll be fine.. Simply contcat them and inform them of this. They'll probably want to see the evidence though.
But, if you don't have a prescrption, then you are breaking the law.
Would you expect to be able to import marijuana like that? Its in the same legal class..
Nikki
Posted by ed_uk on December 20, 2005, at 15:59:12
In reply to Impossible to import benzo's into the UK? :-(, posted by Tom Twilight on December 20, 2005, at 5:13:15
Hi Tom
>Impossible to import benzo's into the UK?
Well no, it's not impossible! .......but it is illegal ;-)
Ed
PS. Got your text but couldn't reply - phone not working at the mo :-(
Posted by Declan on December 20, 2005, at 16:08:51
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please! » Declan, posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2005, at 19:50:06
Hi PJ
It must be a grey area. If it's OK to import Valium, what about Focalin, Ritalin, Dexedrine, hydrocodone etc. Maybe they draw the line at dangerous drugs. I know smart drugs (otherwise unavailable here) are OK. There was an internet pharmacy in Western Australia closed down. They found all this stuff, and it was within our borders here. But that's the thing, you never know where these outfits are located.
Declan
Posted by tecknohed on December 20, 2005, at 16:39:10
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please! » tecknohed, posted by NikkiT2 on December 20, 2005, at 13:17:16
Thanks for all the opinions.
So it is illegal to import Class C drugs into the UK. Well believe it or not, I never once thought it was 'legal' to do so. But this isn't cannibis, or even a large amount of Xanax. The purchase was made in genuine belief that what I was doing was within the law, except I seem to have possibly overlooked one or two details.
Obviously, I cannot post any links to the pharmacy site here, but here is some info from the site regarding importation etc:
-"Great Britain (England)
prescription not required
Import of medicine for personal use is subject to the approval of the health ministry. Prescription drugs should be no more than 3 months' supply. Non-prescription drugs should be limited to 5 pieces of each item. Viagra is prohibited."-"Please note now that as part of the ordering/checkout process you will be required to complete a FREE online medical consultation. This is an easy and short process requiring very little time. A registered physician will then check these consultations and decide whether the order can be fulfilled. In most cases (~99%) this process results in the order being granted." (maybe I'm wrong, but this made me think I was being issued a script AUTHORISED by a REGISTERED Physician?)
-"These medicines are prescription drugs but can be imported from an overseas pharmacy such as ours according to the FDA personal importation rule. Your medications will be shipped directly to your door with discreet packaging. Delivery from Subscribed International Shipping is now available! Please read our shipping instructions and terms and conditions before ordering."
And of course there is the usual (in minute text hidden on a page 'somewhere) "We have endeavored to make sure that the following information is correct, however we will be not held responsible for the accuracy or otherwise of this information".
As naive as I may sound, there is no apparent reason that I can tell, why I should worry about any dire consequences as far as criminal proceedings go. I have already phoned the cutoms office and spoke to an official, who was very helpful and explained what I needed to do to request recovery or restoration (return) of the item. Nothing was mentioned about breaking the 'law'.
And neither did the letter mention anything of the sort. In regards to Condemnation Proceedings it says "....legal proceedings in a Magistrates Court will be taken for condemnation of the items. These are CIVIL rather than CRIMINAL proceedings at which you or your legal representative should be present to show why goods should not be forfeited." The letter mentions nothing of 'criminal' activities nor does it give any kind of warning or threat.
My only concern is costs. And since the order was for less than £30 ($50) I'm gonna leave it.On the up side, I got my GP to prescribe some valium yesturday. :-)
Posted by jamestheyonger on December 21, 2005, at 0:48:01
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 20, 2005, at 16:39:10
" -"Please note now that as part of the ordering/checkout process you will be required to complete a FREE online medical consultation. This is an easy and short process requiring very little time. A registered physician will then check these consultations and decide whether the order can be fulfilled. In most cases (~99%) this process results in the order being granted." (maybe I'm wrong, but this made me think I was being issued a script AUTHORISED by a REGISTERED Physician?)"
Ha. Then why did they arrive loose, unmarked, without the prescribing docs name ?" They say the drugs were simply wrapped in newspaper (!!!) and had no identifiable labling or documents other than my address"
Posted by james_glasgow on December 21, 2005, at 1:23:25
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 20, 2005, at 16:39:10
Hi teknohed
I have attached below an article I found in the archives of the Pharmaceutical Journal.
I have not looked at the Misuse of Drugs legislation for sometime and it is now also an offence for an individual (not a doctor, pharmacist, etc.) to possess a benzodiazpeine without a valid prescription, that is one issued by a doctor in the UK registed with the GMC. Although out of date I have also attached a link to a site that explains what the terms "schedule" and "clas" actually refer to as there is often confusion surrounding them.I hope this is of some help and I have not frightened you, I doubt very much any action would ever be taken againsts you you will just not get your Xanax i'm afraid.
Take care.
James
The Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001
The Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001, which come into effect on 1 February, are a consolidation of the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 1985 and its subsequent amendments. They are almost identical in terms to the 1985 Regulations and therefore there is little change for pharmacists in hospital or community practice.Benzodiazepines (and eight other substances) and anabolic drugs were listed in Part II and Part I, respectively, of Schedule 4 of the 1985 Regulations. These were commonly referred to as CD (Benz) and CD (Anab) for simplicity. Changes have now been made to reverse the listing, so that Part I becomes Part II and vice versa. There is no need to change the descriptions, although the effect is that CD (Benz) now means Schedule 4 Part I. This change was accompanied by a tightening of the controls on benzodiazepine drugs, so that the degree of control now moves progressively through the Schedules, with Schedule 1 being the most stringent and Schedule 5 the least stringent.
The new controls on benzodiazepines include restrictions on import and export, and possession without authority becomes an offence. The increased controls will have no impact on most hospital and community pharmacists.
As Schedule 4 Controlled Drugs, benzodiazepines are not subject to the requirement for community pharmacies and publicly funded hospitals to keep a CD register (a requirement only for Schedule 2 drugs), but any person possessing or supplying CDs under the terms of a Home Office licence (which could include some private hospitals) should check with the Home Office (advice on legal changes, tel 020 7273 3474; enquiries in respect of production, supply and possession authorisations, tel 020 7273 2620; applications for and enquiries about import and export licences, tel 020 7273 3475).
http://www.addaction.org.uk/Drug_law.htm
Posted by NikkiT2 on December 21, 2005, at 13:15:02
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 20, 2005, at 16:39:10
There is actually a black market for valium out there! I paid £5 each for some 5mg diazapam when I hadn't had time to get to my GP and get some for a flight I was taking! Thats just to show that it is a drug that is abused (not that you were going to, just that some do).
And I didn't say they were going to take legal action against you.. But, under UK law, you do need a prescription for valium. I was just pointing out that customs were within their right to seize it.
Plus, its much cheaper just to pay a prescription fee *smiles*
Nikki x
Posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2005, at 14:42:20
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by tecknohed on December 20, 2005, at 16:39:10
Hi K
>As naive as I may sound, there is no apparent reason that I can tell, why I should worry about any dire consequences as far as criminal proceedings go.
I agree :)
>On the up side, I got my GP to prescribe some valium yesturday :-)
I find diazepam anxiolytic when I take 10mg or more (per dose). I've never found lower doses helpful. My doctor has always wanted to prescribe doses that were too low to be beneficial.
Warm regards
Ed
Posted by alohashirt on December 21, 2005, at 21:12:50
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please! » Phillipa, posted by Declan on December 20, 2005, at 16:08:51
Declan,
Is Focalin available in Australia?
> Hi PJ
> It must be a grey area. If it's OK to import Valium, what about Focalin, Ritalin, Dexedrine, hydrocodone etc. Maybe they draw the line at dangerous drugs. I know smart drugs (otherwise unavailable here) are OK. There was an internet pharmacy in Western Australia closed down. They found all this stuff, and it was within our borders here. But that's the thing, you never know where these outfits are located.
> Declan
Posted by tecknohed on December 22, 2005, at 2:53:05
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please!, posted by jamestheyonger on December 21, 2005, at 0:48:01
>
> Ha. Then why did they arrive loose, unmarked, without the prescribing docs name ?
>What do you mean "Ha"? What are you insinuating?
If you are not going to be helpfull, please do not contribute to my posts. I haven't time for your immaturity.
Posted by tecknohed on December 22, 2005, at 3:37:33
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please! » tecknohed, posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2005, at 14:42:20
I know what you mean Ed. For immediate anxiety reliefe, although I've only taken up to 6mg valium and several other benzos at equivelent doses (for anxiety), NONE of them helped the anxiety AT ALL and would usually make things worse . They only seem to work for my anxiety when taken continuously. Not something I like to do anyway.
Actually, one of them did help , alot. Temazepam at 20mg worked a dream and made me completely calm, focussed, collected and talkative without any drowsiness at all. I totally loved the stuff.
I don't bother with benzos for anxiety any more. I only use them now for stress, or if I've been particularly good and feel I deserve a RELAXING night in. For these things they're just the job. :-)
Posted by tecknohed on December 22, 2005, at 5:27:03
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please! » tecknohed, posted by NikkiT2 on December 21, 2005, at 13:15:02
> There is actually a black market for valium out there!
That's a bit racist isn't it? And it wasn't valium, it was Xanax.
>I paid £5 each for some 5mg diazapam when I hadn't had time to get to my GP and get some for a flight I was taking!
I'm afraid you were ripped off there :-(
>Thats just to show that it is a drug that is abused
Why, because some poor valium medicated soul was low on cash and though he'd sell a few of his pills so he could afford his bus fair to work that week?
>(not that you were going to, just that some do).
How do you know I wasn't gonna binge on them? I am a reformed drunk ya'know.
> And I didn't say they were going to take legal action against you..
That's right, you didn't. I don't even think I said you did, did I?
>But, under UK law, you do need a prescription for valium.
It wasn't valium, it was Xanax.
>I was just pointing out that customs were within their right to seize it.
Absolutely. Doesn't mean I should agree with it. They took what wasn't thiers. Thieves.
> Plus, its much cheaper just to pay a prescription fee *smiles*
And what if NO doctor will even consider prescribing it to me?
Hay, I'm just teasing!
Merry Christmas to you! And have a fantastic New Year!
Kev.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 22, 2005, at 8:38:48
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please! » jamestheyonger, posted by tecknohed on December 22, 2005, at 2:53:05
> What are you insinuating?
>
> I haven't time for your immaturity.I'm not sure he was insinuating anything. Please don't jump to conclusions about others or post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by ed_uk on December 22, 2005, at 14:19:59
In reply to Re: UK Customs Seized my 'GOODS' - advice please! » ed_uk, posted by tecknohed on December 22, 2005, at 3:37:33
Hi Kev
Perhaps I shouldn't say this but........
I've never found benzos particularly helpful for anxiety. Sometimes they've helped a bit, other times they've made me forgetful, clumsy, ADDish and generally useless - aggravating my anxiety considerably. Low doses in particular (eg. less that 10mg diazepam) tend to aggravate my anxiety.
......I do however enjoy taking the occasional benzo to 'chill out' on an evening. When I'm not feeling anxious, when I don't have to work on anything, taking a benzo can be pleasant....
I don't take benzos very often. Probably once every few months. I don't want to risk withdrawal symptoms.
30mg diazepam can be pleasant on an evening ;-) I also like temazepam. Xanax is nothing special for me.
Regards
Ed
PS. Warning to the un-initiated. Don't go out and take 30mg diazepam. It might knock you out - so to speak. I'm relatively resistant to the effects of benzos myself.
PPS. If anyone was thinking of scolding me - please restrain yourself. Taking the occasional benzo to relax is little different to getting home from work, putting your feet up and having a glass of wine.
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