![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rjlockhart on December 6, 2005, at 14:11:27
In the us its patented Hydrocodone with acetamp. When i had my wisdom teeth pulled, i was on Vicodin for 1 (1/2) weeks. I usally took 1-2. 5mg per tablet hydrocodone.
Went off it fine. Hydrocodone well i know its an opioid, but how addicting is it, compared to the others, like oxycountin.
I do rerember i felt more "warm" with talking, but it could just be a placebo effect. It really didnt feel much a diffrence, but somewhat..
I have read Hydrocodone is prescribed alot, not the other potent opioids, oxycountin is having a bad rep right now.
Just wanted to ask.
Matt
Posted by med_empowered on December 6, 2005, at 17:27:17
In reply to Vicodin, posted by rjlockhart on December 6, 2005, at 14:11:27
Vicodin and the others (Lortab, Norco, etc.) are schedule III substances; Oxycontin, etc. (Perocet, Percodan, etc.) are schedule II---its understood that Vicodin **usually** isn't much of a problem, as long as its properly RX'd (correct dosage, correct period of time, do a nice, slow taper). I think a lot of the "addiction" has to do with patient mis-management...docs are too busy apparently to do a nice, slow taper, so they either suddenly take patients off the Vicodin (inducing withdrawal that I imagine would make some pursue illicit sources of the drug) or they dont even bother and keep the patient on it for a good long while. Either way...opiate "addiction" isn't so terrible; it doesn't damage any of the major organs or anything, and "withdrawal" basically consists of intense nausea/vomiting for a bit, and then...nothing. No seizures, psychosis, or anything like that. In general, the US has a *big* problem with *under-treatment* of pain, not "addiction" to pain killers. There's a tendency to use "non-addictive" meds in the place of meds that actually work. Its a sad state of affairs.
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2005, at 19:20:36
In reply to Re: Vicodin, posted by med_empowered on December 6, 2005, at 17:27:17
Med I think that when I was prescribed percocet for some surgery it made me feel better and more positive. Do you think that is true? Or did I imagine it? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by spriggy on December 6, 2005, at 23:33:13
In reply to Re: Vicodin » med_empowered, posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2005, at 19:20:36
I know when I take my hydrocodone, I am guarenteed a few hours free of depression and anxiety.
Too bad it didn't last longer.
I am careful of how I take it; only when the Aleve just won't cut it. And I never take more than two 5 mg's a day (usually only 5 mg's a day).
Anyway, I think it definitely affects mood/depression but it's not long lasting enough to help throughout the day.
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2005, at 23:39:03
In reply to Re: Vicodin » med_empowered, posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2005, at 19:20:36
Spriggy that's percocet isn't it? And I'm in such a bad mood . I have 3 left do they also help with sleep? Love your friend Jan
Posted by med_empowered on December 7, 2005, at 2:36:34
In reply to Re: Vicodin » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2005, at 23:39:03
opiates used to be pretty standard treatment for depression, anxiety, insomnia...pretty much any "mental health" problem you can imagine, including psychosis. For a long time, these drugs have been considered too "addictive" for emotional issues, but there's lately been a move towards researching possible uses of opiates in treating mood disorders. I think given all the problems with benzos, SSRIs, antipsychotics, etc. it would make sense to use opiates more--they can induce *dependence*, but withdrawal is never life threatening, and the drugs themselves don't damage any major organ (there's no damage to the liver, brain, etc.). So, no, when you feel a lift in mood from an opiate, it isn't your imagination; opiates really are pretty effective at handling mental health problems. Apparently, there's even some positive effect in schizophrenia--that just shows how intensely these drugs can improve one's mental state.
Posted by spriggy on December 7, 2005, at 13:11:51
In reply to Re: Vicodin, posted by med_empowered on December 7, 2005, at 2:36:34
No vicodin and percocet are different- I can't take percocet ( it's much stronger and makes me vomit).
Vicodin is the weakest pain med ( I think). But I would imagine it would help with sleep. It relaxes me and helps me sleep when I'm in pain.
Posted by jerrympls on December 7, 2005, at 14:51:16
In reply to Re: Vicodin, posted by med_empowered on December 6, 2005, at 17:27:17
> Vicodin and the others (Lortab, Norco, etc.) are schedule III substances; Oxycontin, etc. (Perocet, Percodan, etc.) are schedule II---its understood that Vicodin **usually** isn't much of a problem, as long as its properly RX'd (correct dosage, correct period of time, do a nice, slow taper). I think a lot of the "addiction" has to do with patient mis-management...docs are too busy apparently to do a nice, slow taper, so they either suddenly take patients off the Vicodin (inducing withdrawal that I imagine would make some pursue illicit sources of the drug) or they dont even bother and keep the patient on it for a good long while. Either way...opiate "addiction" isn't so terrible; it doesn't damage any of the major organs or anything, and "withdrawal" basically consists of intense nausea/vomiting for a bit, and then...nothing. No seizures, psychosis, or anything like that. In general, the US has a *big* problem with *under-treatment* of pain, not "addiction" to pain killers. There's a tendency to use "non-addictive" meds in the place of meds that actually work. Its a sad state of affairs.
GREAT post! I currently am being prescribed hydrocodone as part of my med cocktail for treatment-resistant depression. I've been on 5mg 4x daily for a year now with no tolerance or need to increase the dosage. It helps a lot.
Jerry
Posted by jerrympls on December 7, 2005, at 14:56:05
In reply to Re: Vicodin Philipa, posted by spriggy on December 7, 2005, at 13:11:51
> No vicodin and percocet are different- I can't take percocet ( it's much stronger and makes me vomit).
>
> Vicodin is the weakest pain med ( I think). But I would imagine it would help with sleep. It relaxes me and helps me sleep when I'm in pain.Just to clarify - Vicodin (hydrocodone) isn't the weakest of the opiate pain meds. If I am correct, the order kinda goes like this (from weakest to strongest)
codeine
propoxyphene
hydrocodone
oxycodone
fentenyl
morphine, demerol, dilauded
heroinJerry
Posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2005, at 18:00:18
In reply to Re: Vicodin Philipa » spriggy, posted by jerrympls on December 7, 2005, at 14:56:05
Jerry did search on both oxycodone and hydrocodone. So which is vicodan and which is percocet and which is stronger. The net confused me. Thanks Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by jerrympls on December 7, 2005, at 18:08:20
In reply to Re: Vicodin Philipa » jerrympls, posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2005, at 18:00:18
> Jerry did search on both oxycodone and hydrocodone. So which is vicodan and which is percocet and which is stronger. The net confused me. Thanks Fondly, Phillipa
Vicodin contains HYDROcodone
Percocet contains OXYcodone
Oxycontin contains only OXYcodoneOXYcodone is usually stronger.
Hope this helps
Jerry
Posted by spriggy on December 7, 2005, at 18:12:01
In reply to Re: Vicodin Philipa » Phillipa, posted by jerrympls on December 7, 2005, at 18:08:20
So jerry is Percocet the same thing as Oxycontin???
I had no idea- the weird part is that I was given Oxycodone instead of hydrocodone and it didn't seem to work as well for me (besides making me sick to my stomach!).
For some strange reason, if I break a 5 mg of Vicodin in half, it helps me more...
I'm petite, maybe less meds work better for me?
Posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2005, at 18:12:37
In reply to Re: Vicodin Philipa » Phillipa, posted by jerrympls on December 7, 2005, at 18:08:20
Jerry thanks. I took hyrocodone last night to help with sleep. I knew I had left over scripts for percocet and vicodin. So I took percocet last night. And I might say I did sleep. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by spriggy on December 7, 2005, at 18:13:10
In reply to Re: Vicodin Philipa » jerrympls, posted by spriggy on December 7, 2005, at 18:12:01
I reread your message and think I understand it better: Percocet does *contain* oxycodone (likely with some other pain reliever like tylenol)
But Oxycontin, ONLY contains oxycodone?
Is that right?
*adding "pharmacist" to my many hats* LOL
Posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2005, at 18:14:43
In reply to Re: Vicodin Philipa » jerrympls, posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2005, at 18:12:37
Wait. I took oxicodone last night. Just checked the bottle. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by jerrympls on December 7, 2005, at 19:15:48
In reply to Re: Vicodin Philipa » jerrympls, posted by spriggy on December 7, 2005, at 18:12:01
> So jerry is Percocet the same thing as Oxycontin???
>
> I had no idea- the weird part is that I was given Oxycodone instead of hydrocodone and it didn't seem to work as well for me (besides making me sick to my stomach!).
>
> For some strange reason, if I break a 5 mg of Vicodin in half, it helps me more...
>
> I'm petite, maybe less meds work better for me?Percocet has acetaminophen and oxycodone. Oxycontin is a time-release form of JUST oxycodone.
We all react differently to meds - including opiates - so hydrocodone may work better for you than oxycodone.
Posted by jerrympls on December 7, 2005, at 19:16:52
In reply to Re: Vicodin Jerry, posted by spriggy on December 7, 2005, at 18:13:10
> I reread your message and think I understand it better: Percocet does *contain* oxycodone (likely with some other pain reliever like tylenol)
>
> But Oxycontin, ONLY contains oxycodone?
>
> Is that right?
>
> *adding "pharmacist" to my many hats* LOLOxycontin is a time-release form of JUST oxycodone.
Posted by greenhornet on December 7, 2005, at 19:18:37
In reply to Re: Vicodin » med_empowered, posted by jerrympls on December 7, 2005, at 14:51:16
What a wonderful discussion! I am over 60 and have very severe arthritis. I know that I have posted about this before so I'll try not to bore you.
I go to a group practice. about two months ago I had a REALLY bad flare up. The doc I saw prescribed Vicodin 500q4h -- limited it to one prescription and was willing to renew it once when I called.(ten days worth each time). When I called to have the script filled again the nurse called me back and said that Dr.___ wouldn't renew the Vicocin unless I saw him as he wanted to be sure I wasn't "overly dependent on the Vicodin"....BUT he was going to be off for a week!! I scheduled with another doctor in the practice (still not my own regular doc) This guy was willing to give me a script for Vicodin 750mgm and a month's worth with a refill!!
I was once an alcohol abuser (over 25yrs ago) and my own regular doc knows this and KNOWS that I am very careful not to increase the dose. These other docs can also see this on my chart, and, with the exception of the last one I saw, go bonkers when I ask for a pain killer!!
HELLO ?! Celebrex, Vioxx and the other "arthritis meds" were taken off the market -- so what are we supposed to do?? It is a giant pain (no pun intended)--What? -- "former addicts" are not allowed to be in pain? (and I am not even sure that I could be classified as an addict - but that is another story)
They all have the DEA breathing down their necks and as a result folks like me are in pain -- HUMM what is wrong with this picture??
-------------------------
> > Vicodin and the others (Lortab, Norco, etc.) are schedule III substances; Oxycontin, etc. (Perocet, Percodan, etc.) are schedule II---its understood that Vicodin **usually** isn't much of a problem, as long as its properly RX'd (correct dosage, correct period of time, do a nice, slow taper). I think a lot of the "addiction" has to do with patient mis-management...docs are too busy apparently to do a nice, slow taper, so they either suddenly take patients off the Vicodin (inducing withdrawal that I imagine would make some pursue illicit sources of the drug) or they dont even bother and keep the patient on it for a good long while. Either way...opiate "addiction" isn't so terrible; it doesn't damage any of the major organs or anything, and "withdrawal" basically consists of intense nausea/vomiting for a bit, and then...nothing. No seizures, psychosis, or anything like that. In general, the US has a *big* problem with *under-treatment* of pain, not "addiction" to pain killers. There's a tendency to use "non-addictive" meds in the place of meds that actually work. Its a sad state of affairs.
>
> GREAT post! I currently am being prescribed hydrocodone as part of my med cocktail for treatment-resistant depression. I've been on 5mg 4x daily for a year now with no tolerance or need to increase the dosage. It helps a lot.
>
> Jerry
Posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2005, at 19:26:51
In reply to Re: Vicodin » jerrympls, posted by greenhornet on December 7, 2005, at 19:18:37
Celebrex is still on the market. Just two days ago my rheumatologist suggested it for me. He takes it himself and said quality of life is more important to him. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by mystery road on December 8, 2005, at 21:49:45
In reply to Re: Vicodin, posted by med_empowered on December 7, 2005, at 2:36:34
Theres no doubt in my mind that opiates have great anti-depressive effects..I took Ultram for 3 weeks and have never felt better..It was amazing..I stopped because it affected my muscles by cramping and couldn't exercise at all..What neuro transmitters are effected by opiates?..Are there other alternatives to opiates if I know thats what helps me?
Posted by jerrympls on December 22, 2005, at 1:57:06
In reply to Re: Vicodin, posted by mystery road on December 8, 2005, at 21:49:45
> Theres no doubt in my mind that opiates have great anti-depressive effects..I took Ultram for 3 weeks and have never felt better..It was amazing..I stopped because it affected my muscles by cramping and couldn't exercise at all..What neuro transmitters are effected by opiates?..Are there other alternatives to opiates if I know thats what helps me?
Opiates primarily work with engogenous endrphins - which in turn have a symbionic relationship with other key neurotransmitters like serotonin, NE and Dopamine. I also believe that they have some effect on the hypo-pituitary axis and its function - but I may be off on that.
Ultram hits very specific opioid receptors (however, not as strong as other opiates like hydrocodone, oxycodone, etc) but also act as serotonin and NE reuptake inhibition.
Jerry
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.