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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Impermanence on November 24, 2005, at 18:43:16
I just copied and pasted this post as it was from the substance abuse section but the questions remain the same. Sorry Dr Bob for posting the same post in two sections, I'm a little medicated.----------------------------
Thanks so much for your replys guys, it means a lot. Unfortunately, I had a pretty serous relaps (a massive binge). I came into a few Euros (Pounds, Dollars - whatever your currency) I stupidly thought I'd have just a short celebration and was drunk for ....ehh.. lets just say a while. I was brought into hospital A couple of days ago (I think it was a couple of days ago anyway lol, yep, my time preception is all screwed up right now) and they where really nice about it I must say.
They gave me a few 1mg Rohypnol for sleeping an a bottle of Diazepam, Unfortunately it was not enough to keep the 'horrors' away, I have a pretty high benzo tolerance but try telling that to a nurse!! So like the idiot I can be I had a few beers to magnify the benzo intensity. As you can imagine they ran out pretty quickly so I started drinking again (not for pleasure I must stress but to keep the demons away, I cannot handle the horrors, they are pure hell, worse than hell, whatever hell is like, If you even believe in a hell lol). Things got pretty messed up and I was brought into hospital yet again. This time they gave me an injection, I have no clue what it was but it brought me down nicely. I was doped out of my mind!!
My mother was with me so they gave her the pills to take home this time. I think it was about 100 10mg Librium to last a few days but they also gave her A bunch of Clonazine (Thorazine in America), it's a mild antipsychotic. I'm supposed to take 100mgs to 150mgs for sleeping over the next few nights. Now when I read 'mild' on medical websites - this stuff knocked me for six, and I don't mean just made me fall asleep. I was completely disorientated untill about 6pm today when I started comming round, I'm still feeling a little dopey. I could hardly walk on the stuff all day. To be honest it's not a very nice drug, but we're all different right?
Do any of you guys use Thorazine?? If so would you be kind enough to tell be about your own experence please.
One more thing before I forget, I've been taking pretty large amounts of the antacid 'Renny' to help with the alcohol indigestion. Every website with Thorazine information warns against taking with any anticid, is this just a mild warning I can ignore as I'm usually a pretty tough bloke lol, except when it comes to booze of course!!!
Thank you in advance for any enlightenment on the subject. You guys are a joy to have on the net.
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2005, at 22:33:54
In reply to Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. sorry!, posted by Impermanence on November 24, 2005, at 18:43:16
Thorazine is an old antipsychotic. It runs the risk of lowering your blood pressure. I've never ever heard of it being used for alchohol withdrawl. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by med_empowered on November 24, 2005, at 23:15:00
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. sorry! » Impermanence, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2005, at 22:33:54
hey! I've heard of Thorazine being used for drug/alcohol withdrawal...but pretty much in the past. These days, docs tend to use benzos, and Buspirone (BuSpar), and other agents. Thorazine is **harsh**...milligram per milligram it isn't that strong, but its rough...one of its old nicknames is "Zombie Juice," if that gives you any indication. I'd recommend switching docs or something.
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2005, at 23:39:18
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. sorry! » Impermanence, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2005, at 22:33:54
Med how long ago did they use it? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by med_empowered on November 25, 2005, at 2:41:40
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. sorry! » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2005, at 23:39:18
I remember reading a case study while doing a report about a woman dying from NMS during the '70s...I think she was being treated with Thorazine during withdrawal from Quaaludes. William S. Burroughs, the beat-poet, talked about Thorazine treatment during one of his many attempts at going clean from heroin and stimulant abuse; that would probably mean 50s-early 70s. When the neuroleptics were still big and considered "miracle drugs," they were being used for everything...much like the atypical antipsychotics are being sprayed around for everything today. It wasn't until the mid-to-late 70s that this practice stopped; at that point, there were complaints about over-prescription, mis-prescribing (ex: giving it to the elderly for "senile agitation," or to children for "conduct disorder") and there were increasing concerns about EPS and tardive dyskinesia. Perhaps more importantly, the 70s and 80s saw a lot of malpractice litigation based on the (mis)use of neuroleptics, so shrinks had to prescribe other stuff to avoid losing licensure or paying hefty settlements.
Posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2005, at 13:57:39
In reply to Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. sorry!, posted by Impermanence on November 24, 2005, at 18:43:16
100-150mg was far too much chlorpromazine! If you take it again, try 25mg.
~Ed
Posted by Impermanence on November 25, 2005, at 22:25:23
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. sorry! » Impermanence, posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2005, at 13:57:39
Thank you all so much for your input, I'm dropping the dose of Clonazine / Thorazine to 50mgs along with 50 or so mgs of Librium tonight to see how it goes, If I need more of the old and s*itty Librium at least I have it. I'll also be sending an e-mail to the A & E department I was addmited to about their excessive use of such outdated and "harsh" antipsychotics in such high doses for panic attacks. I may have been having serious withdrawals but I was nice and friendly and hardly a danger to anyone. I guess they thought my drinking with the Rohypnol and Diazepam was pretty stupid and desperate and just wanted to knock me out for a few days. Well the picked the right drug for that LOL. Anyway guys, Thanks again for the repilys, you thought me a few things. Peace.
Hmmmmm that 50mgs is even making my head drop now lol, maybe I should go sleep it off.
Posted by ed_uk on November 26, 2005, at 14:13:22
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. so, posted by Impermanence on November 25, 2005, at 22:25:23
Hi!
>Hmmmmm that 50mgs is even making my head drop now lol, maybe I should go sleep it off.
50mg was too much for me. 25mg was ok though. 10mg is enough for some people!
>s*itty Librium
In what way is it s*itty? I guess you prefer flunitrazepam :-)
Regards
Ed
Posted by Impermanence on November 27, 2005, at 4:19:57
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. so » Impermanence, posted by ed_uk on November 26, 2005, at 14:13:22
> Hi!
>>
> 50mg was too much for me. 25mg was ok though. 10mg is enough for some people!
>
You where right Ed, 50mgs of Thorazine was also far to heavy, that stuff has a real 's*itty downer' buzz. I'm moving to your suggested 25mgs tonight (well whenever I get to bed!! it's 10.10am now and I'm still up LOL), I'd say that will help with the sleep but without the groggy crappy feeling the next morning. I bit off a bit of a tablet (I'd say roughly 10mgs) a few hours maybe 3 ago and I took it with 60mgs of Librium just as a test of strength, and honestly I felt only slightly calm for an hour or two and had slightly tired eyes for only a half hour when the Thorazine kicked in, and now 3 hours later I have the shakes again and I'm fully alert. I guess 25mgs sounds like the right dose for bed later as long as you get in and close your eyes.I bet tolerance builds up pretty quickly, did you have that experence?, I'll probably be back on 100mgs or 150mgs this day next week lol, then I'm getting off the stuff.
> >s*itty Librium
>
> In what way is it s*itty? I guess you prefer flunitrazepam :-)
>Well Librium (chlordiazepoxide) and flunitrazepam are completely different benzos mate as I'm sure you're well aware, you can't compare them at all.
But yeah LOL I am fond of Rohypnol for sleeping alright, 2mg usually gives me a good nights rest. I'm also very fond of nitrazepam, I love the buzz of nitrazepam, it's milder and mellow, it's lovely with a nice fat sticky sativa spliff before bed. But the daddy hypnotic benzo for me is Midazolam, It can be hard enough to get but with internet pharmacies and a little doctor shopping in the city I can work my magic. Midazolam completely knocks me out, I sleep like a baby.
As for anxiolytic benzodiazepines, Librium is s*it, it's a waste of my time unless I take a handful, even then I wait an hour to feel slightly calm. I do understand it was the first benzo discovered by accident in the 50's so ya gotta give it some respect but it's still rubbish if you have any kind of high benzo tolerance. I've used just about every benzo at some stage or another and was on some for years and I have to say the DADDY and KING is Diazepam, I LOVE the stuff, it just works so well with me. 100mg of Diazepam, a can of lager and about five spliffs is pure heaven.> Regards
>
> Ed
Yeah you to mate, sorry for my benzo rant lol, I just start typing about any subject and get it hard to shut up sometimes. Thanks again for your input, you've been a help.
Imp :-)
Posted by ed_uk on November 27, 2005, at 11:52:45
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. so » ed_uk, posted by Impermanence on November 27, 2005, at 4:19:57
Hi Imp
>You where right Ed, 50mgs of Thorazine was also far to heavy, that stuff has a real 's*itty downer' buzz.
I hope 25mg works ok. Do tell :-) If you're gonna take chlorpromazine at all, you really need the 10mg tablets so that you can adjust the dose properly.
>I bet tolerance builds up pretty quickly, did you have that experence?, I'll probably be back on 100mgs or 150mgs this day next week lol, then I'm getting off the stuff.
The drowsiness reduces in time but some of the effects remain unchanged. Don't be tempted to increase the dose, it will make you feel dreadful if you take too much, even if you 'think' you've developed a tolerance!
>Well Librium (chlordiazepoxide) and flunitrazepam are completely different benzos mate as I'm sure you're well aware, you can't compare them at all.
In *your* experience, what are the subjective differences between chlordiazepoxide, diazepam and flunitrazepam?
I've never taken chlordiazepoxide. The benzo I've taken most is diazepam - the most widely prescribed benzo anxiolytic in England. Flunitrazepam was discontinued here a while ago. In England, nitrazepam and temazepam are the most popular benzos for sleep, diazepam for anxiety and chlordiazepoxide for alcohol withdrawal. I find temazepam to be quite pleasant. Diazepam and lorazepam are ok too, diazepam has a much more rapid onset of action - often quite sudden. I've never taken nitrazepam.
>Midazolam completely knocks me out
It's only available as an injection here, is an oral formulation available in Ireland? I know it is in some countries. I guess you could just drink the injection solution though ;-)
Ed
Posted by med_empowered on November 28, 2005, at 8:05:29
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. so » Impermanence, posted by ed_uk on November 27, 2005, at 11:52:45
hey! sorry about your withdrawal problems. Hope we here at the board can help. Anyway, Ed's right about the Thorazine...its an antipsychotic that also serves as a sedative (its used alot with other drugs for pre-operative sedation). I guess the idea is that it will calm you down and mildly sedate you w/o causing any dependence or any other undesirable effects. Still, its a kind of old-school way to deal with alcohol withdrawal. I personally like Librium, but I took it for anxiety, so that's a little different. 10-25mgs/Thorazine really should do you for however long you need to take this medication...if you go above that, you won't get too much more sedation, but you will get infamous Thorazine side effects such as:
difficulty concentrating, difficulty thinking, akathisia (a state of restlessness where you move around constantly, fidgeting and unable to sit still..Ive had it before. Its pure hell), drug-induced depression, tremors, muscle stiffness, constipation, skin reactions (flushed skin)...you can also have problems dealing with hot or cold (Thorazine makes your body less able to handle changes in temperature, so hypo-and hyper-thermia become more likely), night sweats (Thorazine does this to a lot of people). The mind-numbing effects of Thorazine become more apparent as the dose goes up...when Thorazine first hit the scene in the early 50s, it was called "the chemical lobotomy," because patients treated with it tended to behave a lot like patients who had undergone lobotomy, where their frontal lobes were removed....high-dose thorazine tends to leave people dull and inert, which is why Thorazine has fun nicknames like "zombie juice" and "chemical cosh". They used it a lot in prisons, foster homes, mental institutions, and nursing homes. Low doses aren't so bad--they can be really helpful, actually--but higher doses can be **terrible**. Also, if possible, only use Thorazine for a *very* little while.
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2005, at 19:33:26
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. so, posted by med_empowered on November 28, 2005, at 8:05:29
Did you know they also use it for intractable hiccups? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on November 30, 2005, at 15:29:03
In reply to Re: Post for sub abuse, maybe more suited here. so, posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2005, at 19:33:26
>Did you know they also use it for intractable hiccups?
Same applies to Haldol. I'd rather hiccup personally :-)
Ed
This is the end of the thread.
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