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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tygereyes on November 1, 2005, at 20:10:35
To those who have used both:
How are they similar? different? (side effects, efficacy, which symptoms treated, etc.)
I know about the differences in pharmacology; I'm interested in patient reports here.
Posted by SLS on November 1, 2005, at 20:59:59
In reply to PARNATE vs. NARDIL, posted by tygereyes on November 1, 2005, at 20:10:35
Hi.
> I know about the differences in pharmacology;
What differences are there?
I have taken both Parnate and Nardil. Both have brought me into transient states of remission. I liked the feel of Nardil better than Parnate. With Parnate, I believe there was some residual anhedonia. However, it rendered me 100% functional. It gave me both physical and mental energy along with cognitive clarity. Nardil did the same thing, plus I found that I enjoyed things more and was more gregarious.
Regarding side effects, I think Nardil might be more troublesome than Parnate. Hypotension and urinary hesitency tend to be more of a problem. One may also experience edema (although this seems to occur more in females). Nardil is a bit hard on the liver. Many people also experience anorgasmia, but this often dissipates after a few months.
Both drugs can produce total insomnia, so it is important to develop an aggressive plan to attack this side effect should it occur. Because these drugs can be so effective, it is worth attempting to treat side effects rather than simply discontinuing treatment.
How would you describe your symptoms? Are you bipolar or unipolar? Do you experience social anxiety? OCD? Some doctors will choose the MAOI based upon diagnosis or symptom cluster.
- Scott
Posted by willyee on November 1, 2005, at 22:17:44
In reply to PARNATE vs. NARDIL, posted by tygereyes on November 1, 2005, at 20:10:35
> To those who have used both:
>
> How are they similar? different? (side effects, efficacy, which symptoms treated, etc.)
>
> I know about the differences in pharmacology; I'm interested in patient reports here.
I wish i could take both,i start nardil and get worried when i feel tightness in my face and a little difference,i start saying no no bad idea just keep trying to augment parnate.Id like to stay with nardil IF it worked for me,but god i cant deal with 3 weeks of waiting whether it is on nardil kicking in,or this damn usesless parnate i have now.I am going to combine ritalin with l-theanine at night time,or later afternoon to see what happens.This is absurd my bosy is totaly not accepting parnate.
I remeber id stay to myself as a side effect,but parnate still had me going off in the mornings to my rec center to a GIANT room that was always empty cause no one know it,and id put the tv on,and shoot pool,practice alone and i really enjoyed it.Now parnate when it works gets me up and pumps me into OCD behaviour until im frustrated and sad cause all im doing is cleaning.
Xyrem would break that and make me feel social,and rahter call and talk to people than clean everything and worry.Parnate serious lacks this effect.
Posted by ace on November 2, 2005, at 2:06:27
In reply to PARNATE vs. NARDIL, posted by tygereyes on November 1, 2005, at 20:10:35
> To those who have used both:
>
> How are they similar? different? (side effects, efficacy, which symptoms treated, etc.)Nardil causes wonderful relief of depression and anxiety and is so calming...I love it!
Parnate caused me a black depression. I hate it!>
> I know about the differences in pharmacology; I'm interested in patient reports here.Well you just had info coming from the worlds greatest MAOI man, knowlegable in all aspects of the drug. BTW, The addition NE agonism caused my depression I believed...it happened with reboxetine too...suprise suprise!!
Ace!
Posted by Chairman_MAO on November 2, 2005, at 8:49:02
In reply to Re: PARNATE vs. NARDIL....NARDIL WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by ace on November 2, 2005, at 2:06:27
While not an uptake inhibitor or a [direct] releaser, phenelzine DOES cause a PROFOUND increase in both intrasynaptic and intraneuronal NE. I can feel it right now, believe me [adrenergic scalp "tingles", cold hands, erectile dysfunction, etc.].
It is also metabolized into PEA which I believe has some NE releasing effect, though I am not sure about that.
Posted by SLS on November 3, 2005, at 7:49:03
In reply to Re: PARNATE vs. NARDIL....NARDIL WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!! » ace, posted by Chairman_MAO on November 2, 2005, at 8:49:02
> While not an uptake inhibitor or a [direct] releaser, phenelzine DOES cause a PROFOUND increase in both intrasynaptic and intraneuronal NE. I can feel it right now, believe me [adrenergic scalp "tingles", cold hands, erectile dysfunction, etc.].
I experienced these things with Parnate too.
When I first began taking Nardil, I found it somewhat sedating. After a short period of time, however, the sedation disappeared and I noticed a stimulating effect that occurred immediately after dosing. It seems to me that such an acute effect would not be due to a change in MAO activity. Perhaps Nardil increases the release of monoamine neurotransmitters as it first enters nerve terminals.
Any other ideas? This stimulant-like effect might be very important to the clinical effects of Nardil when compared to other MAOIs.
- Scott
Posted by tygereyes on November 3, 2005, at 16:03:01
In reply to Re: PARNATE vs. NARDIL, posted by SLS on November 1, 2005, at 20:59:59
I am currently taking Parnate, 50 mgs. It has helped with rejection sensitivity and body dysmorphic disorder though (strangely) not as much with the depression itself. I do find it very activating, however, and my cognition has unquestionably improved.
The reason I asked about it vs. Nardil is because of some side effects I've been experiencing. I lost my appetite and lost weight (nine pounds in a week and a half) - since I'm in recovery from anorexia, a dangerous thing for me. I also found it amphetamine-like and started taking higher doses than prescribed, though I have stopped this.
My "official" diagnosis is Borderline Personality Disorder and Bipolar II (though this is debatable).
Posted by ace on November 4, 2005, at 2:54:10
In reply to Re: PARNATE vs. NARDIL....NARDIL WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!! ¼Âace, posted by Chairman_MAO on November 2, 2005, at 8:49:02
> While not an uptake inhibitor or a [direct] releaser, phenelzine DOES cause a PROFOUND increase in both intrasynaptic and intraneuronal NE. I can feel it right now, believe me [adrenergic scalp "tingles", cold hands, erectile dysfunction, etc.].
>
> It is also metabolized into PEA which I believe has some NE releasing effect, though I am not sure about that.How did you come to the conclusion the metabolizm into PEA has NE releasing effect
Interesting....
Ace
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