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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by supamom on October 25, 2005, at 0:39:42
My 7yr old recently had a neurotransmitter urine test. Below are the results...can someone please explain plainly what they mean.
URINE SAMPLE WAS TAKEN AT 11:30AM
Epinephrine 11.0
Norepinephrine 43.1
Norepi/Epi (Ratio) 3.9
Dopamine 125.0
Serotonine 250.5
Glycine 2043.7
Taurine 278.4
GABA 6.6
Glutamine 1046.7
Glutamate 36.7
Aspartic Acid 42.9
PEA 288.5
Agmatine 1.6
Histamine 45.7
Creatinine 91.8
Posted by Glydin on October 25, 2005, at 7:50:22
In reply to neurotransmitter urine test, posted by supamom on October 25, 2005, at 0:39:42
I did not know of such a thing. If I could ask what type of doc did this? They gave you these results and did not interpret them for you?
I was under the impression there were not tests of this type - involving levels found in body fluids - that were of use in determining what was going on and how that equated to their actions in the brain so I'm following your thread to see what insight others may have to this.
Posted by supamom on October 25, 2005, at 11:20:12
In reply to Re: neurotransmitter urine test, posted by Glydin on October 25, 2005, at 7:50:22
> I did not know of such a thing. If I could ask what type of doc did this? They gave you these results and did not interpret them for you?
>
> I was under the impression there were not tests of this type - involving levels found in body fluids - that were of use in determining what was going on and how that equated to their actions in the brain so I'm following your thread to see what insight others may have to this.Yes. He is seeing an Osteopathic doctor and is a part of a study. He had (hindsight) symptoms as a new born that looked very much like when he now has a seizure. They lasted for about 2 months and when didn't see them anymore. None of his pediatricians at the time could explain what the involuntary muscle ticking was...only to say that his nervous system may have been immature. I was given Pitosin, Demoral and an Epidural during an intense labor with him. It left me unable to move for almost 2 days and with a rash for a month. It left him completely commatosed, unresponsive to nursing, etc. Gross motor development was on target and his walked at 10 months. He had less than 10 words in his vocab at 3yrs...was tested as speech and language delayed at that time...tested by a neuropsych at 5years and diagnosed PDD NOS and is extremely hyper. He was prescribed Ritalin by his pediatrician and starting suffering from seizures a month after which we are still battling now with Trileptal and Topamax. The Ritalin was replaced with Strattera which we did for 9months with no real change in his lack of focus, processing and high activity level...so we took him off. He had 2 ambulance rides and 6 seizures in two weeks this summer. We are tired of all the meds masking the real problem and wanted some true biological answers. I understand that the term Autism (which PDD NOS falls under) is a term given the disorder by the American Psychiatric Association but ...it addresses the behaviors we see in children with Autism...which I may add varies depending on the child...and is very subjective based on what you see (my son's school has brought in their own Autism team and an independent (yeah right!!!) psychologist who all disagree with his Neurologist, Neuropsychologist, Pediatrician, Group Therapist and now Osteopath (although she has a different view on Autism. We have been undergoing a series of tests to look at the biological cause of his issues. The neurotransmitters urine test is one. The exam was explained to the best of the OD's ability...she is awaiting feedback from Neuroscience...who interpreted the results because several areas are new on the results...two in particular being the Glycine and Taurine count. I didn't add the levels they consider normal because someone out there might understand the test. It was explained but I want it in plain English like I was 4 years old (movie Philadelphia...Denzel Washington quote :-)) and I want to understand in plain English what each of those transmitters listed do, their function and what it controls behaviorally for us in everyday life. We do know his GABA and Glutamate is off- too high. GABA and Glutamate or B6 defieciency are often the cause of some types of seizures. The glycine from what I was able to find out on the net affects speech and motor development. His EEG showed seizure activity in the hemisphere that is responsible for speech and language however, intense light makes the seizures cover the entire brain. I'm probably babbling at this point...there's just so much info and I feel like we're just scratching the surface. I also have a 4 year old...had no drugs during labor with her...walked to the post partum room cause I had so much energy, no latching problems, she nursed till almost 2 years. She's been writing her name since she was 2 and has already intellectually surpassed her older brother. I have to think that environmentally factors affected his brain although we have done DNA research and now know that his is missing a gene that helps his liver detoxify heavy metals (vaccinations) and certain drugs that go through certain pathways he should avoid (Ritalin, Strattera and actually both his seizure medications are on this precautionary list for him)...that was a blood test and I believe the test was Detoxic Genomi (?) Anyway...I think I've babbled enough...if anyone has any expertise in the list of neurotransmitters, their functions and what the levels should be...I am eager to learn more.
Posted by greenhornet on October 25, 2005, at 13:09:10
In reply to Re: neurotransmitter urine test » Glydin, posted by supamom on October 25, 2005, at 11:20:12
The tests were for more than just "neurotransmitters" (and here we are not talking about neurotransmitters in the brain but the whole body). The doctors are probably trying to rule out a metabolic disorder of which there are many --some of which can cause the symptoms you describe.
I would get a second opinion from a pediatric neurologist, preferably one at a University Medical Center.
You might want to check out this website also, it explains PDD-NOS pretty well.
http://info.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/autism/pddnos.html
Posted by supamom on October 26, 2005, at 1:18:22
In reply to Re: neurotransmitter urine test, posted by greenhornet on October 25, 2005, at 13:09:10
> The tests were for more than just "neurotransmitters" (and here we are not talking about neurotransmitters in the brain but the whole body). The doctors are probably trying to rule out a metabolic disorder of which there are many --some of which can cause the symptoms you describe.
> I would get a second opinion from a pediatric neurologist, preferably one at a University Medical Center.
> You might want to check out this website also, it explains PDD-NOS pretty well.
> http://info.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/autism/pddnos.htmlThanks for the info...the test was exactly for that. It was a neurotransmitter urine test that measures neurotransmitters in the urine comparable to the neurotransmitters in the brain to check if the levels are where they should be. Neuroscience is the name of the clinical research lab and he has already been tested - ordered by his pediatric neurologist for metabolic disorders. The neurologist ordered an amino acid analysis to look for metabolic defects and he had chromosonal tests specifically for his chromosome karyotype, subtelomeric fish and fragile X study. All these tests came back normal. His OD than ordered the 1.neurotransmitter test, 2.spectracell test (which looks for any vitamin and mineral deficiences), 3.US Biotek test (tests for allergens from 98 foods and 48 inhalants - my son also has asthma, severe environmental allergies and mild to moderate food allergies, 4. Complete blood count analysis and 5. Detoxi Genomic test to look at his DNA makeup and evaluate if there are red flags within his DNA that would, ie. affect the way he is able to process drugs, toxins, etc. The complete blood count and spectracell came back normal. The 3 that didn't were no surprise to us since he does suffer from allergies, has learning and social disorders and seizures...although it did alarm us the amounts of foods that affect him...when we took him to his allergist a year ago we skin tested him primarily for environmental allergens. Most of those showed up in the results as IgE...antibodies that may be associated with immediate-onset hypersensitivity reactions. Most of the foods that showed up as moderately or highly reactive were all IgG ... antibodies that may be associated with delayed-onset hypersensitivity reactions. I do have an issue with this test because all of the food allergens have an asterix (*) by them with a key that states incomplete testing for items with (*) due to insufficient sample...yet they give recommendations as follows :- highly reactive - all dairy, peanuts, soybeans, spelt, wheat, whey, yogurt, all casein and all gluten. Moderately reactive - blueberry, egg white and yolk, lemon, orange and all gliadin. My husband and I left wondering what we can feed him! And again, the whole reactive foods list (including all the foods that scored no reaction and low had (*) by them...so I'm a bit confused with that test. He is scheduled for 2 more - both stool tests - one to look for yeast and parasites and the other to test for heavy metals.
Posted by Glydin on October 26, 2005, at 6:01:39
In reply to Re: neurotransmitter urine test, posted by supamom on October 26, 2005, at 1:18:22
It sounds like you and your family have been through and continue to go through alot on your search to get to the bottom of things and find a good treatment for your son.
I hope you do get some answers soon... you're a good parent.
Posted by supamom on October 26, 2005, at 14:23:23
In reply to Re: neurotransmitter urine test » supamom, posted by Glydin on October 26, 2005, at 6:01:39
> It sounds like you and your family have been through and continue to go through alot on your search to get to the bottom of things and find a good treatment for your son.
>
> I hope you do get some answers soon... you're a good parent.I appreciate you saying that...it is completely overwhelming at times and my husband and I feel completely helpless at times. We are both over-achievers and just expected our kids to do the same. I love him for who he is but we worry about his future...what happens when we're gone and not able to protect him...will he be able to marry and sustain a relationship...and sometimes I feel like we're not doing enough...like this is the one class/course or degree I won't pass. This situation causes a lot of strife in our marriage as well...especially where discipline is concerned for him. Really knowing what he cannot control and when he is hoodwinking us...he is a very smart kid...he just learns differently and we are trying to balance between how much compromise needs to be made between his view of the world and society's view.
Posted by Glydin on October 26, 2005, at 14:33:39
In reply to Re: neurotransmitter urine test, posted by supamom on October 26, 2005, at 14:23:23
Sounds like you are doing a wonderful job. You are advocating for you son, that's the best thing ever.
Posted by greenhornet on October 26, 2005, at 18:44:32
In reply to Re: neurotransmitter urine test, posted by supamom on October 26, 2005, at 14:23:23
> > It sounds like you and your family have been through and continue to go through alot on your search to get to the bottom of things and find a good treatment for your son.
> >
> > I hope you do get some answers soon... you're a good parent.
>
> I appreciate you saying that...it is completely overwhelming at times and my husband and I feel completely helpless at times. We are both over-achievers and just expected our kids to do the same. I love him for who he is but we worry about his future...what happens when we're gone and not able to protect him...will he be able to marry and sustain a relationship...and sometimes I feel like we're not doing enough...like this is the one class/course or degree I won't pass. This situation causes a lot of strife in our marriage as well...especially where discipline is concerned for him. Really knowing what he cannot control and when he is hoodwinking us...he is a very smart kid...he just learns differently and we are trying to balance between how much compromise needs to be made between his view of the world and society's view.I agree and AMEN all that has been said. Something that you need to seriously think about is what are you doing to take care of yourself? This is so easily shoved aside in a situation such as yours. No matter what, your son is in God's hands. You need to be healthy mentally and physically to be of help to your son and the rest of your family.
I want to continue supporting you and your struggle, but perhaps we should shift this discussion to parenting before Dr. Bob redirects us there!!(No offense Dr. Bob, you're the greatest!) If you post there I'll be there too. Hornet
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 27, 2005, at 20:29:06
In reply to Re: neurotransmitter urine test » supamom, posted by greenhornet on October 26, 2005, at 18:44:32
> I agree and AMEN all that has been said. Something that you need to seriously think about is what are you doing to take care of yourself? ...
> I want to continue supporting you and your struggle, but perhaps we should shift this discussion to parenting before Dr. Bob redirects us there!!:-) Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/child/20050817/msgs/572506.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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