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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Paulbwell on October 11, 2005, at 23:09:07
Ritalin has been described as "Cocaine dripped thru molasses"- there seems to be proof to this admission-perhaps why some kids crush up the pills and snort them?.
As someone who has had experience with the stuff it CAN definately be severly brain chamging- to the neurotransmitters ETC, and one can expect some PRETTY TOUGH time when stopping it.
Take a look at the Nurological effects of Ritalin and Cocaine--THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.
cocaine N/A topical anesthetic (oral, laryngeal and nasal cavities) N/A 30-90 minutes
CYP-3A4 * psychostimulant:
DA reuptake inhibition ++
NE reuptake inhibition +Now Ritalin-note the SIMILAR MODE OF ACTION.
methylphenidate Ritalin, Concerta, Metadate, Methylin, Methylphen ADD, ADHD, depression, CFS
20-30mg
(60mg max) 2.9 hrs
* psychostimulant:
DA reuptake inhibition
NE reuptake inhibition
NE releaseSEE?
1, a redreational drug of like damaging abuse, the other a medically scripted remedy for a "medical ailment"
Cheers
Posted by Ryan2828 on October 12, 2005, at 6:21:34
In reply to Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is slow duration Cocaine, posted by Paulbwell on October 11, 2005, at 23:09:07
Pretty scary but boy are they making a fortune from it $$$$$ they are counting their money.
Posted by ed_uk on October 12, 2005, at 13:48:06
In reply to Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is slow duration Cocaine, posted by Paulbwell on October 11, 2005, at 23:09:07
Hi P,
On a brighter note, methylphenidate is less likely to cause seizures and cardiac arrhythmias than cocaine.
~Ed
Posted by Tom Twilight on October 12, 2005, at 16:27:52
In reply to Re: Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is slow duration Cocaine » Paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on October 12, 2005, at 13:48:06
I don't think its fair to say that Ritalin/Mephylphenidate is 'legal' Cocaine.
What seems to be being emplied is that cocaine is a "Bad" drug, so Ritalin must be to.Its fair to say that there are big similarities between the two drugs.
I'm sure if you 'snort' ground up Ritalin tabs its probably not that different from Coke.It has to be said that if taken apropriatly there are significant differences between Ritalin and Coke.
For one thing Ritalin has a much longer duration of action than coke.
I don't think an oral dose of Ritalin will produce a high like coke will, unless the Ritalin dose is really high.Its also worth noting that cocaine is not inherently 'bad'.
For example Cocac leaves are chewed regularly in parts of South America, like Columbia.
Chewinging the leaves releases a reasonable amount of cocain.
Despite this coca leaf does not seem to be addictive, or at least no more so than coffee.Heres an interesting link
http://www.cocaine.org/potplant.htm
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2005, at 17:44:30
In reply to Ritalin is slow duration Cocaine?-Not That Simple!, posted by Tom Twilight on October 12, 2005, at 16:27:52
My misguided and contentious opinion is that all of us (well, most of us) would be much much better off chewing coca leaves and throwing out the crappy meds. Or eating poppy capsules. The pharmaceutical industry is an insulting racket.
Just about everything is these days. Accepting the moment, this is as good as it gets.
Declan
Posted by Paulbwell on October 12, 2005, at 18:24:08
In reply to Ritalin is slow duration Cocaine?-Not That Simple!, posted by Tom Twilight on October 12, 2005, at 16:27:52
> I don't think its fair to say that Ritalin/Mephylphenidate is 'legal' Cocaine.
> What seems to be being emplied is that cocaine is a "Bad" drug, so Ritalin must be to.
>
> Its fair to say that there are big similarities between the two drugs.
> I'm sure if you 'snort' ground up Ritalin tabs its probably not that different from Coke.
>
> It has to be said that if taken apropriatly there are significant differences between Ritalin and Coke.
> For one thing Ritalin has a much longer duration of action than coke.
> I don't think an oral dose of Ritalin will produce a high like coke will, unless the Ritalin dose is really high.
>
> Its also worth noting that cocaine is not inherently 'bad'.
>
> For example Cocac leaves are chewed regularly in parts of South America, like Columbia.
> Chewinging the leaves releases a reasonable amount of cocain.
> Despite this coca leaf does not seem to be addictive, or at least no more so than coffee.
>
> Heres an interesting link
> http://www.cocaine.org/potplant.htmHi Ya
"What seems to be being emplied is that cocaine is a "Bad" drug, so Ritalin must be to"
cocaine is one of the most psychological addictive substances there is.
Give rats unlimited access to Heroin 1/3 of them will ignore everything until it kills them.
Give rats unlimited to Cocaine 90% will ignore everything else till death-Most Humans are euphoria addicts.
While taken properly, under medical guidence, Ritalin has been used for decades, successfully by many-ADD/HD, Narcolepsy.
But it has a very similar mode of action to Coke. When experienced IV Cocaine users are shot (IVed) with Methylphenidate-they cannot tell the difference-fact.
It can be a very usefull med, but should be treated with caution.
The similarities are well known-hence why it's a Sch 11 med-as with Cocaine Hcl
Cheers
Posted by linkadge on October 12, 2005, at 19:10:00
In reply to Cocaine=Methylphenidate share many similararities » Tom Twilight, posted by Paulbwell on October 12, 2005, at 18:24:08
You are right, the modes of action are identical.
Potency, and half life are the only major differences.
Ritalin abuse in my area is much much worse than cocaine abuse.
I would imagine that it could cause some of the same neurochemical changes associated with cocaine.
I took 20mg and I found that after a few months, it was like taking nothing at all. I literally would start asking myself weather I took it or not, because I wasn't sure.
Linkadge
Posted by blueberry on October 12, 2005, at 19:18:01
In reply to Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is slow duration Cocaine, posted by Paulbwell on October 11, 2005, at 23:09:07
A few years ago when my doc had me try ritalin, I swear it felt like cocaine. The feeling was so similar it was scary.
Posted by Paulbwell on October 12, 2005, at 20:46:05
In reply to Re: Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is slow duration Cocaine, posted by blueberry on October 12, 2005, at 19:18:01
> A few years ago when my doc had me try ritalin, I swear it felt like cocaine. The feeling was so similar it was scary.
In what method of administration, dose?
Cheers
Posted by CK1 on October 12, 2005, at 21:14:28
In reply to You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by Paulbwell on October 12, 2005, at 20:46:05
Paul,
Ritalin and Adderall are great drugs that have helped many people, including myself. I only take Adderall for school and it has SAVED my grades. Yes, it's overprescribed, but some people need it to function better. Stop being such a "Ritalin Hater" or at least save us from your comments comparing Ritalin to Coke. People on this board don't want to hear that the meds that are helping them are essentially cocaine and horrendous drugs. Well, I guess I'm doing coke a few times a week! yeaaa...life is good.
Posted by Paulbwell on October 12, 2005, at 21:21:30
In reply to Re: You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by CK1 on October 12, 2005, at 21:14:28
> Paul,
>
> Ritalin and Adderall are great drugs that have helped many people, including myself. I only take Adderall for school and it has SAVED my grades. Yes, it's overprescribed, but some people need it to function better. Stop being such a "Ritalin Hater" or at least save us from your comments comparing Ritalin to Coke. People on this board don't want to hear that the meds that are helping them are essentially cocaine and horrendous drugs. Well, I guess I'm doing coke a few times a week! yeaaa...life is good.I hear ya dude, perhaps if Adderal was available.
I am only pointing out the obvious, Cocaine Hcl and methylphenidate Hcl have a similar action-thou Rit lasts longer.
I'm sure Amphetamines help many.
Cheers
Posted by Ryan2828 on October 13, 2005, at 6:30:30
In reply to Re: You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare? » CK1, posted by Paulbwell on October 12, 2005, at 21:21:30
Is this the same for all stimulants or what other ones there are? Are there stimulants that have a large impact on focus and completing tasks that are not so severe?
Posted by blueberry on October 13, 2005, at 7:01:43
In reply to You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by Paulbwell on October 12, 2005, at 20:46:05
> > A few years ago when my doc had me try ritalin, I swear it felt like cocaine. The feeling was so similar it was scary.
>
> In what method of administration, dose?
>
> Cheers
Cocaine was many years ago. Started with small lines, tolerance led to huge piles.Ritalin was a few years ago. Don't remember the doses. Started at the lowest dose. Tolerance set in extremely fast. I increased the dose rapidly to get the same initial effect, but ended up going through a whole month's supply in just a week. Too addicting for me. Couldn't control the urge. It did feel just like cocaine, including the abusive high feeling and the craving for more and more.
Posted by rod on October 13, 2005, at 9:30:54
In reply to Re: Cocaine=Methylphenidate share many similararities, posted by linkadge on October 12, 2005, at 19:10:00
> I took 20mg and I found that after a few months, it was like taking nothing at all. I literally would start asking myself weather I took it or not, because I wasn't sure.
>
>
> LinkadgeHi Link,
Just curious. How old have you been when you took it for that time?
Roland
Posted by gromit on October 14, 2005, at 0:55:16
In reply to You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by Paulbwell on October 12, 2005, at 20:46:05
> In what method of administration, dose?
Were you asking for a comparison? Cocaine either snorted or smoked with pot didn't do much for me except empty my wallet. Then we learned how to make "rock cocaine", aka crack, but this was before crack. You shouldn't take cocaine, you shouldn't snort your ritalin but the last thing you ever want to do is smoke crack. It's like 5-10 minutes of the best feeling ever and then straight off the cliff. It would be against human nature not to want another hit, and another...
Ritalin doesn't feel anything like cocaine to me, but zoloft didn't feel anything like lexapro and those drugs supposedly both do the same thing.
Rick
Posted by Paulbwell on October 14, 2005, at 4:49:20
In reply to Re: You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by blueberry on October 13, 2005, at 7:01:43
>
>
> Cocaine was many years ago. Started with small lines, tolerance led to huge piles.
>
> Ritalin was a few years ago. Don't remember the doses. Started at the lowest dose. Tolerance set in extremely fast. I increased the dose rapidly to get the same initial effect, but ended up going through a whole month's supply in just a week. Too addicting for me. Couldn't control the urge. It did feel just like cocaine, including the abusive high feeling and the craving for more and more.
>
i apreciate your honesey!i have never tried Cocaine.I am not going to fib, I have heard of crushing and snorting Ritalin. I don't usually do this, but have. It is very quick acting this way, and can take me from being somewhat drunk to sober, after snorting 2-3 10mg Ritalins. It hits quick and fast.
The above post by Blueberry is not unique, but i guess any Amphetamine can be abused, althought Methylphenidate is a slower acting Cocaine.
Orally is best.
Posted by linkadge on October 14, 2005, at 12:37:04
In reply to Re: You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by CK1 on October 12, 2005, at 21:14:28
The point wasn't to condem people it is just some basic truths about the drug.
It is quite binary, either it is like cocaine, or it isn't. Either it can cause similar problems or it can't.
Unfortunately ritalin is very much like cocaine, right down to its effects on dopamine in the pleasure centres of the brain.
There are a lot of studys showing that it causes similar neurochemical and structural alterations to the brain.
People need to be aware of these things if they are going to make informed decisions.Sweeping any facts under the carpet is not a good idea.
My psychiatrist tried to sweep antidepressant poop out under the carpet, and that got nobody anywhere.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 14, 2005, at 12:41:50
In reply to Re: You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by linkadge on October 14, 2005, at 12:37:04
Even though I make these comments, I am not trying to make any reflection on your condition or your medical need for the drugs.
Its the same with antdepressants. Sure they make me feel better, and as such, its seems inconcievable that they may not be good for my brain, but unfortuately the way a drug makes one feel, and the way it affects ones brain, are completely separate affairs.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 14, 2005, at 12:45:05
In reply to Re: Cocaine=Methylphenidate share many similararit » linkadge, posted by rod on October 13, 2005, at 9:30:54
I was about 20 years old. I was using it completely medicinally, no recreational practices.
I noticed at first improved concentration, and ability to do work, but a few months later it was like taking a placebo every morning, I felt identical to before I took it.
Linkadge
Posted by Ryan2828 on October 14, 2005, at 18:53:51
In reply to Re: You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by linkadge on October 14, 2005, at 12:41:50
I think Ritalin helps hundreds but hurts thousands who abuse it, 6 and 7 year olds snorting it in school is a problem.
Posted by 4wd on October 16, 2005, at 14:46:46
In reply to Re: You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by Ryan2828 on October 13, 2005, at 6:30:30
I have tried cocaine (recreationally) and I have taken Ritalin (legitimately). They felt totally different. Coke was euphoric and mentally as well as physically energizing. Ritalin made me feel wired physically but there was no sense of euphoria and no motivated feeling or any pleasurable feeling at all.
Marsha
Posted by linkadge on October 16, 2005, at 16:04:48
In reply to Re: You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by 4wd on October 16, 2005, at 14:46:46
Taken from:
http://www.amphetamines.com/methylphenidate/brain.html
In the work funded by the NIH, Dr. Carlezon and his chief collaborator, Dr. Susan Andersen, examined the effects of exposing rats to Ritalin during early development on behaviors later in life. They exposed normal rats to twice-daily doses of Ritalin during a period that is equivalent to approximately 4-12 years of age in humans. Examining the behavior during adulthood, Carlezon and Andersen conducted several types of tests that all showed that the animals had a reduced ability to experience pleasure and reward, particularly when it was measured by sensitivity to cocaine. In addition, they found that the animals exposed to Ritalin during pre-adolescence were more prone to express despair-like behaviors in stressful situations (such as swim tests) as adults. Overall, the animals showed more evidence of dysfunctional brain reward systems and depressive-like behaviors in adulthood.
Posted by alohashirt on October 16, 2005, at 22:39:32
In reply to Re: You have tried Cocaine and Ritalin-compare?, posted by Ryan2828 on October 14, 2005, at 18:53:51
> I think Ritalin helps hundreds but hurts thousands who abuse it, 6 and 7 year olds snorting it in school is a problem.
Um really?
I recall the panic that swept my elementary school in 1976 when the PTA sent home a newsletter asking parents to watch for drug dealers who were hanging out near school and giving away colored stickers to children that were impregnated with LSD. This was one of those urban myths that swept the world and were repeated as fact by people who had no notion of that this was in fact, just a myth, just like the alligators in the sewers of New York City, or the razor blades in the Halloween apples, or the ... There are *NO* reported incidents of drug dealers distributing LSD on the back of stickers to children despite this urban myth having spread the world.
Ryan - have you observed a seven year old snort ritalin? Do you have direct personal knowledge (third hand doesn't count) of a seven year old who has done this? Ritalin appears to help hjundreds of thousands and is in an extremely effective drug esopecially when dealing with children's ADHD symptoms. Children who are prescribed Ritalin have a lower incidence of drug abuse than those who are not. I remember when my sister tried to smoke alfalfa (lucerne) but there is no cottage industry in writing books scaring people about the dangers of alfalfa. I suspect that there are probably 100x as many people who are negatively impacted by Tylenol than ritalin.
Aloha
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