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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Declan on August 15, 2005, at 14:44:31
Not going so well Tom? It's been a month or so. I've been wondering how it is with you. No matter what your response to Marplan is I/everyone would be interested to hear about it. I need to be informed about this stuff. My mother developed agitated depression and it was the worst experience of my life to watch it. Death from cancer was a piece of cake by comparison. I worry about this happening to me and want to be prepared. So....
Declan
Posted by Tom Twilight on August 15, 2005, at 16:17:20
In reply to TOM and MARPLAN, posted by Declan on August 15, 2005, at 14:44:31
Hey Declan
Its nice that you remebered meFor a full, if rather melodramatic account of my Marplan experience see my post below
Although my experience with Marplan has been quite negative so far, there are patients and doctors who swear by it
How are you doing? Is the insomnia under control?
Posted by Declan on August 16, 2005, at 0:58:42
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN, posted by Tom Twilight on August 15, 2005, at 16:17:20
Yah, I dunno Tom. That stuff I said about Seroctin and Parnate was misconcieved. I wonder about seratonin things for me. I think they tend to make me agitated, if not immediately then later.
It's interesting (to me) that deprenyl's always been OK even if I've had insomnia and felt a little jittery.
I keep changing the Parnate dose a little every day and trying to come to a conclusion about the right dose for me.I think I shall look for Linkadge's post about the different 5ht receptor subtypes and what they do.
I've never *not* had social anxiety, particularly initially. I won't mention the drugs here, but *nothing* (chemical) gets rid of it. (Maybe falling in love, what about that? Just the suggestion for someone with SP!) Maybe it's life, I dunno, I just tell myself that we're a dangerous breed to cheer myself up.
I dragged myself out of the house today and climbed Mt Warning, and feel much better for it.
Declan
Posted by bigcat on August 16, 2005, at 20:24:38
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN, posted by Declan on August 16, 2005, at 0:58:42
I'm one of the "only responds to nardil" people. This being the case, I surprisingly responded to Marplan on probably the fourth trial of the drug, after having it never touch me on the earlier trials. I had a good hypomanic month, followed by a few months of up-'n-down remission. I kept having to raise the dose until I was way above b*llshit recommended dose range. But eventually it sh*t out too. Such a tease, so unpredictable. I haven't responded to parnate, moclobomide, or eldpryl ever... maybe in the future. Good luck.
Posted by Tom Twilight on August 17, 2005, at 4:34:13
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN, posted by bigcat on August 16, 2005, at 20:24:38
Thanks for the response guys
> I kept having to raise the dose until I was way above b*llshit recommended dose range.
What dose did you respond to Bigcat?
For some stupid reason my Psychiatrist doesn't want to raise the dose over 30mgsSorry your having a hard time with Social Anxiety Declan, it is a horrible condition, have you tried GHB/Xyrem
Posted by ed_uk on August 17, 2005, at 5:10:44
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN, posted by Tom Twilight on August 17, 2005, at 4:34:13
>For some stupid reason my Psychiatrist doesn't want to raise the dose over 30mgs.....
That's so sad.
The worst thing is, when docs (rarely) prescribe MAOIs, they tend to use sub-therapeutic doses.
Two things that p*ss me off.........
1. That >30mg Parnate is taboo in the UK
2. That the UK manufacturer of Nardil suggests that people can only take 75-90mg/day if they're in hospital. Give me a break.
Kind regards
~ed
Posted by Declan on August 17, 2005, at 5:46:49
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN, posted by Tom Twilight on August 17, 2005, at 4:34:13
Yeah it's a *bit* horrible, meaning it could be worse. I would love to have tried GHB but I wasn't quick enough off the mark and I've never been in the right place at the right time, meaning clubs or wherever it is. I just find social interactions complicated and draining.
The first hour of amphetamine is good. I feel like I can keep track of everything then!
Declan
Posted by ed_uk on August 17, 2005, at 9:03:50
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN » Tom Twilight, posted by Declan on August 17, 2005, at 5:46:49
>I would love to have tried GHB...
Me too!
~ed
Posted by bigcat on August 17, 2005, at 10:03:52
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN » Tom Twilight, posted by Declan on August 17, 2005, at 5:46:49
With my last doc, in practice for 30 years and very determined to bring me relief and I ready to guinea pig-myself (chop of balls, whatever) we've gone much higher than recommended doses on MAOI's (and other classes as well). This doesn't mean that higher is better, just that doctor's heed the PDR way too strictly. This board is good because it provides empirical evidence of people using this or that tweak or sometimes "unheard of" dose levels to respond.
Empirical evidence would show that these therapuetic range numbers are total horse-sh*t and can be eliminated to dust with "let's try it". I don't have a death wish, but I know what abnormalities to look out for, and that "toxicity" levels are thrown out there so a med doesn't get bad press if someone has a severely adverse reaction.
These numbers are for personal physcicians who want to presribe anti-d's, not psychiatrists willing to see through the propaganda. I can always either look past or tolerate side effects, and they never seem to hit me as hard as others.
When Nardil and Parnate were bailing out on me, we got up there. I'm guessing 120 Nardil (and I was at university at the time, not in a hospital). Anyway, it wasn't working for me. I would increase the dose every week, even every coupla' days, and I'd feel just right for 48 hrs., and then nothing.
I don't quite remember how high the Marplan got, but I think that went up to 90mgs (Parnate the same). I hope this doesn't frustrate you with your doc's caution, and a higher dose is NOT always the answer by any means. But some docs are simply more aggressive than others, and you'll always hear stories of a massive dose happening to be needed and working for someone.
This was not the case for me, but at least I checked out some unchartered waters and have an increased awareness of the flexibiltity of dose ranges. How can you objectify a "ceiling" dose when we're all wired and respond differently?
Posted by ed_uk on August 17, 2005, at 10:21:13
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN, posted by bigcat on August 17, 2005, at 10:03:52
Maximum doses I've heard of people taking for depression.....
Parnate 200mg
Marplan 170mg
Nardil 135mg~Ed
Posted by bigcat on August 17, 2005, at 18:34:15
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN » bigcat, posted by ed_uk on August 17, 2005, at 10:21:13
> Maximum doses I've heard of people taking for depression.....
>
> Parnate 200mg
> Marplan 170mg
> Nardil 135mg
>
> ~Ed
Good stuff Ed. I never took the parnate much above 90mgs, sleep was impossible. I tried haldol, chloral, klonapin, but never seroquel, which at high doses seems to pack a punch. Maybe ambien would be a good idea too. It's something to consider. I was probably close to that Marplan dose, but didn't have insurance (still don't). I'm looking to get insurance in which case $200 a week for a cartload of Marplan pills will get diverted to copays. But anyway, this is very encouraging- I thought I was a radical, but all it takes is self-examination and interpretation of the history of one's treatment to say to hell with it, there's much more to lose by not trying it.Toxicity on tricyclics may induce seizures, but I think most people who go high on maoi's have to bail because they cant take the side effects. Bring 'em on, I ain't affraid. It proves that me and my doc aren't reckless psychos, and may want to explore these regions again. (Man I've tried everything including ECT, and the Marplan and Nardil are the only drugs that have ever touched me (and they BROKE THROUGH. Ahhhhhh).
There truly is no middle ground with me. Not bipolar, just devastating, all consuming and debilitating depression, or remission that gives me a wonderful taste of my *true mind* and putting it to use to live life.
Dexedrine was glorious for depressive remission, f*ck the associated stigma of seeking a euphoria. That is NOT what I was looking for (though ocassionally felt). Anyway, my doc's reasoning to try the dexedrine was because maoi's supposedly break down into amphetamines. It was a genius move which I may go back to, but it's rather up and down, and I question whether it is a feasible option for long term treatment of treatment-resistant depression. But nardil and marplan remissions were glorious too. Just reading a book or taking a walk in comfort, and having the ability to express myself and take interest in things, laugh, socialize. Now those days are an incessant taunt as I now truly know what I've been missing out on and want to be a part of so excruciatingly badly.
Maybe dexedrine with an maoi might work in conjunction to prevent mutual poopout. Ever hear about trying this, or anything that will make one of the two hold? Are there any MAOI astronauts anyone can refer me to for some advice/experience at letting 'em soar?Thanks for bearing through.
Posted by Declan on August 17, 2005, at 19:28:39
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN, posted by bigcat on August 17, 2005, at 18:34:15
Hi bigcat
Maxime was taking Parnate 80mg/d and Dexedrine 15mg/d, I think. The comedown from Dexedrine was abit of a problem for her.
My thought for the day is that the best dose of Parnate for me is 5(!) mg/d. With 1mg/d deprenyl. No big deal of course. If I take more, especially 20 I feel a little unbalanced.
I do remember I had a day or two on Nardil once and had an immediate magic reaction. I may have imagined it, in which case I wish I could imagine it everyday.
Declan
Posted by ed_uk on August 18, 2005, at 9:56:13
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN, posted by bigcat on August 17, 2005, at 18:34:15
Hi BigCat,
>Maybe ambien .....or Seroquel.... would be a good idea too.
I agree. Certainly worth a try. You could also try a short-acting benzo such as temazepam... or perhaps a sedating antihistamine.
>Maybe dexedrine with an maoi might work in conjunction to prevent mutual poopout.
Quite a few psycho-babblers have tried this combination. You could talk to SLS - he's tried it. In fact, he once tried MAOI + TCA + stimulant + thyroid hormone!
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Tom Twilight on August 18, 2005, at 15:36:27
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN » bigcat, posted by ed_uk on August 18, 2005, at 9:56:13
Never my Psychiatrist nor my GP will prescribe anything with the Marplan to help with sleep
Its very annoying
I'm having to self medicate for it
Posted by ed_uk on August 18, 2005, at 18:05:42
In reply to Re: TOM and MARPLAN, posted by Tom Twilight on August 18, 2005, at 15:36:27
Where did you get the amitriptlyine and zopiclone?
I once found a box of zopiclone in the town centre. It was in a box of flowers outside a pub
~ed
This is the end of the thread.
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