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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Squiggles on July 9, 2005, at 8:53:36
This was a very frightening event.
Its good side was that it was a
confirmation that I am truly bipolar;
assuming that what happened was that
I went below the "narrow therapeutic
index". I was very happy for most
of the time for the lack of side effects.
I gradually became manic and then in a short
period of time, very sick - suicidal.I called my dr. and got a prescription to
the previous brand taken for about 20 years.
Valeant was very kind to let me know that
switching from non-generic to generic can
have such effects, once stabilized on a
particular type.Over about 3 weeks now I am nearly entirely
stable. It was very difficult to stabilize -
severe headaches, fatigue, taming the motor
mania and depression;Strange thing is that I feel "cleaner",
almost detoxified sort of .... from the
lithium toxicity effects I was having.
Is it possible that a weaker generic over
5 months allowed for a wash-out?I wrote to the partices concerned and the gov.
so that the generic versions on "narrow therapeutic index" drugs may get some attention,
in case others fall into this trap.Thanks
Squiggles
Posted by SLS on July 9, 2005, at 12:36:43
In reply to Given Generic lithium and crashed after 4-5 months, posted by Squiggles on July 9, 2005, at 8:53:36
Hi Squiggles.
Thanks for posting, Squiggles. Important stuff. How much lithium were you taking? What were your lithium blood levels when you crashed? What are they supposed to be?
Thanks.
- Scott
> This was a very frightening event.
> Its good side was that it was a
> confirmation that I am truly bipolar;
> assuming that what happened was that
> I went below the "narrow therapeutic
> index". I was very happy for most
> of the time for the lack of side effects.
> I gradually became manic and then in a short
> period of time, very sick - suicidal.
>
> I called my dr. and got a prescription to
> the previous brand taken for about 20 years.
> Valeant was very kind to let me know that
> switching from non-generic to generic can
> have such effects, once stabilized on a
> particular type.
>
> Over about 3 weeks now I am nearly entirely
> stable. It was very difficult to stabilize -
> severe headaches, fatigue, taming the motor
> mania and depression;
>
> Strange thing is that I feel "cleaner",
> almost detoxified sort of .... from the
> lithium toxicity effects I was having.
> Is it possible that a weaker generic over
> 5 months allowed for a wash-out?
>
> I wrote to the partices concerned and the gov.
> so that the generic versions on "narrow therapeutic index" drugs may get some attention,
> in case others fall into this trap.
>
> Thanks
>
> Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on July 9, 2005, at 12:51:57
In reply to Re: Given Generic lithium and crashed after 4-5 months, posted by SLS on July 9, 2005, at 12:36:43
My usual blood level is 0.8 - 1.0, and
that is satisfactory by my doctor, inspite
of the side effects. Recently, (past 6 yrs.
some side effects have increased and there
was some talk of switching me to something else);
I love lithium and I fear any change in an
equilibrium which has taken years to adjust
with the other drugs.I get bloods every year and the last one would
have been 0.8 to 1.0 -- after 20 yrs. my dr.
relies on that as a constant.Just how depleted or less the new generic
lithium was (by another company) is very hard
to tell. I dissolved them both in water to
compare and did not find much dif. in physical
properties. Perhaps, the drug was old as
they would not renew it after the 2nd time
at the new pharmacy.I was absolutely delighted with no side effects
and I still feel refreshed. It took about 24
hours to come out of full-blown suicidal psychosis
with the usual VALEANT lithium prep.Both caps had 300mg lithium carbonate each.
I take 900 per day, with Synth. and K.Squiggles
Posted by platinumbride on July 11, 2005, at 14:34:29
In reply to Given Generic lithium and crashed after 4-5 months » SLS, posted by Squiggles on July 9, 2005, at 12:51:57
Fascinating stuff!
I really thought that i was the only one who experienced this when I switched pharmacies and, conequently, formulations.
Around the time this happened I had levels checked and the 600 mgs which had always kept me at .6 and basically feeling OK, showed a reading of .2 (I think), with a comment that it was "barely perceptible". That was also a time when I felt terribly depressed.
My doc then put me on a slow release of eskalith, this time 900 rather than 600 and I felt better within a few days. (Oddly enough, I had been on the first formulation at 900 mgs once and it kept me at the same .6 as 600 mgs did)
My last level was .8.
So much for the "all generics are the same and the same as the original" story.I'm glad you are feeling better.....
Diane
Posted by Squiggles on July 11, 2005, at 14:45:13
In reply to Re: Given Generic lithium and crashed after 4-5 months, posted by platinumbride on July 11, 2005, at 14:34:29
> Fascinating stuff!
>
> I really thought that i was the only one who experienced this when I switched pharmacies and, conequently, formulations.
>
> Around the time this happened I had levels checked and the 600 mgs which had always kept me at .6 and basically feeling OK, showed a reading of .2 (I think), with a comment that it was "barely perceptible". That was also a time when I felt terribly depressed.
>
> My doc then put me on a slow release of eskalith, this time 900 rather than 600 and I felt better within a few days. (Oddly enough, I had been on the first formulation at 900 mgs once and it kept me at the same .6 as 600 mgs did)
>
> My last level was .8.
> So much for the "all generics are the same and the same as the original" story.
>
> I'm glad you are feeling better.....
>
> DianeYes,
I feel better thank you Diane. I have no reason
to doubt that my levels when starting on the
generic lithium were the same as the chronic
0.8-1.0 or at most 1.2.I noticed the change very gradually, but the
first thing I noticed on the generic was the
gradual easing of all the nasty side effects
of lithium. I was so happy. But I did not
realize that along with a lack of side effects
something else must be wrong.I gradually became manic and then quite suddenly
depressed after 5 months.I reported the "superiourity" of the generic
to the companies (both generic manufacturers and
VALEANT -- my constant provider, and VALEANT
wrote back to me saying, I was lucky, because
you are not supposed to switch from one brand that
you have been accustomed to to another especially
to a generic as the levels may not be the same.Cynically, I thought they just wanted my cash, lol. Nope, they were actually doing me a favour.
Squiggles
p.s. Question: I feel refreshed physically --
is it possible that I have been "de-lithified after 20 years? Dr. Mogens Schou says that
when drs. check the bloods, they really should
also check the brain, because lithium can accumulate in the brain and the bloods will not
reflect that. Anyone know anything about this?Well, two good things have come of this:
1. I know I am bipolar - mania and depression
-- no doubt of that and a very frightening experience;2. I feel "cleaner" as if I had a chance to
get rid of some excess lithium.Would be interesting to know what the generic
dose really was.
This is the end of the thread.
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