![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8870 to 8894 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2005, at 2:18:55
In reply to quiting, posted by happyg on July 7, 2005, at 15:34:05
> these medicines all the do is make you feel alittle better while you are on them and then .. you health will be destroyed.
Please don’t exaggerate or overgeneralize.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by carolina on July 8, 2005, at 2:35:29
In reply to quiting, posted by happyg on July 7, 2005, at 15:34:05
> hello everyone !!!
> well for everything that i read from you guys i don't see any getting better in any of you. it is either the side effects or the getting worse .
> i did a lot of research on this medicine and all the antidepress med. to tell you the truth i dont believe in this anymore . i took my boyfriend out of this medicine and we are trying new ways to confron this problems .
> i would love for you to try different things and talk to yourself and try to find a way that will make you happier . start by doing all the things that make you happy and try to execrise your mind on your own .
> i read about many people that have had the same sympthons that us .. and they have benn out of it with no medicine . it is the hard way . but you will have a longer life and more healthy .
>
> i also believe nutriotion is very important and also your spiritual life could help if you try to make it better . i don't want to sound like someone who doesn't understant what u are going through. believe me i know how this feels . but the good thing is thatwe are all aware of how we feel and i am sure we can fixed in soem other ways . these medicines all the do is make you feel alittle better while you are on them and then .. you health will be destroyed.
> thank you all for your feedbacks and hope everyone feels better :)>i hope everything works out 4 u. i know very few people that have mental illness that did have success w/o meds and therapy but im not gonna put u down. i really hope it works 4 u. i know that ive tried myself to not take meds and do other things 2 feel better but i felt much worse not long after quitting my meds. a good point that was made from a prior post was that people have to take meds. 4 all types of illnesses and they r not looked down upon in society like people who have mental illness and take meds so its unfair to the ones that suffer from the hurt,emptiness,lonliness,etc.....when thats the last thing they need. please take care and if u start to feel depressed again get help IMMEDIATELY!
Posted by angelbean on July 8, 2005, at 3:27:55
In reply to Re: quiting, posted by haddsl on July 7, 2005, at 15:42:38
THANK YOU!
> Is it proven that not being on antidepressants will lead to a longer life? I have seen no such research! What works for soem does not work for all, and I am sorry but not all of us can solve our problems with talk, spiritual guidance, excersize and nutrition. I for one have nothing in my life that should be making me depressed or anxious in any way but... here I am anxiety disorder and depression. And I knew about the anxiety before the doctor. They thought it was insomnia. Although it was hard to get through your post with all the truley horrid spelling. I believe that if you can get through it on your own... Great!!! But, you don't need to preach to us like we are a bunch of pill popping fakers! Some of us just can't control it on our own. So good luck to you pill free. And to the rest of us... I hope that someday we are able to control these problems, but if you can't I will still be here with a sympathetic ear.
>
>
> > hello everyone !!!
> > well for everything that i read from you guys i don't see any getting better in any of you. it is either the side effects or the getting worse .
> > i did a lot of research on this medicine and all the antidepress med. to tell you the truth i dont believe in this anymore . i took my boyfriend out of this medicine and we are trying new ways to confron this problems .
> > i would love for you to try different things and talk to yourself and try to find a way that will make you happier . start by doing all the things that make you happy and try to execrise your mind on your own .
> > i read about many people that have had the same sympthons that us .. and they have benn out of it with no medicine . it is the hard way . but you will have a longer life and more healthy .
> >
> > i also believe nutriotion is very important and also your spiritual life could help if you try to make it better . i don't want to sound like someone who doesn't understant what u are going through. believe me i know how this feels . but the good thing is thatwe are all aware of how we feel and i am sure we can fixed in soem other ways . these medicines all the do is make you feel alittle better while you are on them and then .. you health will be destroyed.
> > thank you all for your feedbacks and hope everyone feels better :)
>
>
Posted by angelbean on July 8, 2005, at 3:43:23
In reply to Quitting Effexor XR - and off of all other meds!, posted by starlight on July 6, 2005, at 12:38:06
I have been on Effexor XR 150mg for 8 years. I too am coming off of it. Not because it's not working for me, but because I lost my insurance and this stuff is $140 a month! Believe me, if I could afford it, I would continue it forever.
Anyway, it has been 3 days since my last dose, and I think I'm actually feeling a little better. I have experienced all the side effects that everyone complains of, but I feel pretty good right now. I am frightened by the posts I've read here and elsewhere about the effects of coming off, especially without the benefit of tapering. So I wanted to let people know that one person out there is getting off it, and so far I'm ok. I would love to hear from some people who have been successful at getting off it without a lot of side effects. I'm hoping you're out there, and just not talking!
> Hi all,
> I'm coming off of effexor xr and frankly am scared about it.
Posted by DawniePoo on July 8, 2005, at 6:46:25
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hi. I've been checking in on this board since going on Effexor about 4 months ago, but have never posted. I have a few concerns that I thought you all may be able to answer/help with...
First, the side effects, I've had increased sweating, hot flashes, some wierd disconnected feeling, sometimes slip into a "fog", and my energy levels seem to be really odd, up, down, up down.
Three years ago I quit smoking cold turkey, since being on Effexor I have started again, and the reason seems to just be this new "EH- whatever" attitude. The smoking is just one example, this attitude seems to carry over to alot, but it leaves me thinking is this a side effect, or is this the way normal people function? I spent all of my life depressed and was just pushed over the edge to get help after my mom died and I began having some odd PTSD (I was there when she died)... so after spending all my life freaking out over all the "little stuff" is this just normal to not be freaking out on myself about all the little stuff, or is this not normal. (Keep in mind I realize I should not smoke, and I need to stop, I just seem to not be downing myself about it) Should I be? Another example, money issues pop up and I seem to not think about it ALL day, just find a way to resolve it and get over it, again, hard to know if this is normal, or not...Wierd.
Also, I have High Blood Pressure (not severe, more high borderline) so I take Atenenol and my Effexor, I have a really odd schedule so I have forgotton to take my meds before, and it seems when I have forgotton, I wake up in the morning and I am beyond dizzy and off balance- JUST FROM FORGETTING ONE DOSE! Has anyone else exprienced that? I surely will not be forgetting to take my pills anytime again soon!
Now that I have blabbed on and on about this... Wanted to also say thanks to all of you for the informative input you all put out there, it helps ALOT!
I look forward to your input...
-Dawn
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 8:31:31
In reply to Re: please be civil » happyg, posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2005, at 2:18:55
> > these medicines all the do is make you feel alittle better while you are on them and then .. you health will be destroyed.
>
> Please don’t exaggerate or overgeneralize.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Dr. Hsiung,
In your above statement to the poster , you write,[...don't overgeneralize...exaggerate...].
Could one post research links here that could have the potential to show that the poster in question is not overgeneralizing or exaggerating?
Lou Pilder
Posted by haddsl on July 8, 2005, at 9:07:50
In reply to Re: quiting, posted by julish on July 7, 2005, at 20:14:19
I know I am just so sick of people treating us like a bunch of druggies. And other people say it all the time on this thread as well. Everyone is different. And anyone that CAN fix this problem with just talking or excersixe or what not. Must not be that bad, or it must not be caused from chemical inbalance or something. I know I can NOT fix mine that way. But good luck to all.
> Thank YOU! Well said, haddsl!
> By the way HappyG.... I am having great success so far on effexor. I can function again, think again, LIVE again! It's wonderful...and I DID try many alternatives and investigations as to what the problem was...until this medication, nothing helped.
> So...there are successes. And... "to each, his own".... Don't judge others because medication is helping them.
> And good luck to you.
> Julie
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2005, at 9:35:08
In reply to Lou's response to Dr. Hsiung's post-hstygen? » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 8:31:31
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 10:35:04
In reply to Re: sure (nm) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2005, at 9:35:08
Dr. Hsiung and all members of this mental-health community.
I am delighted to accept the offer here by Dr. Hsiung to show reserch that could indicate that the taking of psychotropic could harm your health amd that the statement by Dr. Hsiung that the poster in question's statement has the potential to be accurate and is not overgeneralizing or exaggerating.
What I will post here is to show where the psychotropic drugs came from, what the chmicals do to those that take them, how pesticides and poisons act and how nerve agents that kill are related to the development of psychotropic drugs. I also will show the relationship with the Nazi regime and psychiatry along with IG Farben and Nazi Germany, Bayer and Hoechst.
But first I would like for those that are going to post to this thread to take in consideration what is written in the following link concerning the "chemical imbalance" theory of psychiatry.
Lou Pilder
http://www.deep-trance.com/treatment/chemical-imbalance.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 10:49:21
In reply to Re: sure (nm) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2005, at 9:35:08
Friends,
If you are going to post to this thread, I am also requesting that you consider what is in the following link concerning the "chemical imbalance" theory of psychiatry.
Lou Pilder
http://mambers.fortunecity.com/siriusw/Biochemical-Imbalance.htm
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 10:55:44
In reply to Re: sure (nm) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2005, at 9:35:08
http://members.fortunecity.com/siriusw/Biochemical-Imbalance.htm
Posted by Sebastian on July 8, 2005, at 11:04:10
In reply to has anyone tried Cipralex?, posted by jesica on July 7, 2005, at 12:38:06
Some times you just have to pick a med and stick to it. All meds feel strange, especialy at first. You get used to it though. If Cipralex is intolerable like effexor, try switching again. If not give it a while. Are you just starting to take these types of medication?
Posted by julish on July 8, 2005, at 11:21:33
In reply to My strange experiences with Effexor..., posted by DawniePoo on July 8, 2005, at 6:46:25
Dawn
Seems to me that you are more able to handle the ups and downs of life....
I know it has to be strange, after years of freaking out on the little stuff...
Keep observing yourself.... sounds to me, though, like you're doing ok.
I hope the energy level thing levels out for you.
Take Care
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 11:32:57
In reply to Re: sure (nm) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2005, at 9:35:08
Friends,
I am also requesting that if you are going topost to this thread that you consider what is written in the following link.
Lou Pilder
http://www.peter-lehmann-publishing.com/articles/j-f-lehmann.htm
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 13:08:19
In reply to Re: has anyone tried Cipralex? » jesica, posted by Sebastian on July 8, 2005, at 11:04:10
> Some times you just have to pick a med and stick to it. All meds feel strange, especialy at first. You get used to it though. If Cipralex is intolerable like effexor, try switching again. If not give it a while. Are you just starting to take these types of medication?
Friends, in referrence to the above post, I am requesting that you consider the following if you are going to post to this thread.
It is written here, [...sometimes you just have to pick a med and stick to it...].
I am requesting that you consider the following:
A. What principle of mental-health, if there is one, says that you have to pick a med and stick to it?
B.Does the poster define what a "med" is?
C.Does the poster define the conditions that could lead for someone to [...sometimes...]?
The poster then writes something like,[...if effexor is intolorable...try switching...].
I am asking you to consider the following if you are going to post to this thread.
A. If effexor can be intolerable, could it also cause damage to your health in the near term?
B. If any of these type of chemicals can be "intolerable", could it be that all these type of drugs could cause damage to your health in the long term?
Lou
Posted by carolina on July 8, 2005, at 13:14:12
In reply to Re: Quitting Effexor XR - and off of all other med, posted by carolina on July 8, 2005, at 2:14:26
> > Thanks for your info. I too think the meds may have made me hypomanic, but then having a lot of energy runs in my family and I don't consider that abnormal. I consider coming home, getting on the couch and not wanting to do the things I would normally do, abnormal.
> >
> > We're going to come down slowly, and one thing about your post that I'm interested in, is did you come off of the Effexor while you were still on the Klonopin, and did you think that helped you?
> > Thanks,
> > Starlight
>
> YES!!! it helped w/ the anxiety very much. Good luck and take care
Posted by TinMan on July 8, 2005, at 13:23:13
In reply to Re: My strange experiences with Effexor..., posted by julish on July 8, 2005, at 11:21:33
While I certainly believe that the area of the brain and mind need much more research done, I also believe that Nature has a lot to do with who we are. Women can tell you that each baby while in the womb, has a definite personality. Why does one identical twin have schizophrenia, while the other does not?
It is that whole Nature vs. Nurture thing again. And I honestly believe that genetics have a lot to do with our "mental health" if you will.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. That is where therapy and support groups are invaluable. They can help you try something else.
But "talking" or "pulling" myself out of a depression is not possible for me. With the Effexor, I feel that life is certainly worthwhile and I have something to offer. Not something I felt with Paxil. Work and communicate with your Dr. They certainly need the feedback!
Some are straw, some are tin,
TinMan
Posted by haddsl on July 8, 2005, at 13:29:39
In reply to Lou's response to an aspect of this thread-lngtrm?, posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 13:08:19
This is ridiculous! I feel like the only reason you are here is to badger us and make us feel like we are bad and wrong. Of course there are side effects.... there are side effects to cold medicine too! Everything has side effects, So I guess then according to you we shouldn't take cold medicine either!? If you don't like us and the way that we have decided to FIX our problems then you don't have to waste your time on this thread! If you don't want to take anything.... FINE! now leave us alone! BTW... (which means 'by the way' since you don't know what a med is) a med is medication. the reason they said to try ans stick with it is because there are initial side effects that go away or lessen after about a 2 week period. And finally, if they don't like it and they decide to switch... that is because different pills effect everyone differently. What might make this person ill and abnormal, may make me feel perfect. SO! either try to have a little compassion and understanding for a situation that you are not in, and don't understand. Or... keep your attitude to yourself!
> > Some times you just have to pick a med and stick to it. All meds feel strange, especialy at first. You get used to it though. If Cipralex is intolerable like effexor, try switching again. If not give it a while. Are you just starting to take these types of medication?
>
> Friends, in referrence to the above post, I am requesting that you consider the following if you are going to post to this thread.
> It is written here, [...sometimes you just have to pick a med and stick to it...].
> I am requesting that you consider the following:
> A. What principle of mental-health, if there is one, says that you have to pick a med and stick to it?
> B.Does the poster define what a "med" is?
> C.Does the poster define the conditions that could lead for someone to [...sometimes...]?
> The poster then writes something like,[...if effexor is intolorable...try switching...].
> I am asking you to consider the following if you are going to post to this thread.
> A. If effexor can be intolerable, could it also cause damage to your health in the near term?
> B. If any of these type of chemicals can be "intolerable", could it be that all these type of drugs could cause damage to your health in the long term?
> Lou
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 13:48:43
In reply to Lou's response to an aspect of this thread-lngtrm?, posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 13:08:19
Friends,
It is written here something about psychotropic drugs in relation to medicines. I am requesting that you to consider what is written in the following link if you are going to post in this thread.
Lou
http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/levine.schtml
Posted by carolina on July 8, 2005, at 14:40:03
In reply to Re: Quitting Effexor XR - and off of all other meds!, posted by angelbean on July 8, 2005, at 3:43:23
> I have been on Effexor XR 150mg for 8 years. I too am coming off of it. Not because it's not working for me, but because I lost my insurance and this stuff is $140 a month! Believe me, if I could afford it, I would continue it forever.
>
> Anyway, it has been 3 days since my last dose, and I think I'm actually feeling a little better. I have experienced all the side effects that everyone complains of, but I feel pretty good right now. I am frightened by the posts I've read here and elsewhere about the effects of coming off, especially without the benefit of tapering. So I wanted to let people know that one person out there is getting off it, and so far I'm ok. I would love to hear from some people who have been successful at getting off it without a lot of side effects. I'm hoping you're out there, and just not talking!
>
>
> > Hi all,
> > I'm coming off of effexor xr and frankly am scared about it.>hey i have stopped effexor b4 and didnt experience any awful side effects except mood swings but i was pregnant and the mood swings cont. so i feel it was the pregnancy, not the effexor causing them :-D i would never stop a med cold turkey ever again just b/c u never know what can happen but i was ok. do u live in a state that has a state type mental health center b/c some states do and even if u have no ins. they base ur fee on a sliding scale and give u samples of the meds if they have them. also u can always apply 4 medicaid in ur state b/c a lot more states are starting to realize mental illness is serious and some will approve state ins. if ur eligable 4 help-even if its just counseling and u dont want meds. i live in sc and i know that at one x sc was the #1 state to approve any needed assistance re: mental health ( i guess they figured most of us are crazy here !!! J/K ) its worth checking into just in case u start 2 feel bad. the info would be in the gov. section of ur phone book-take care and im here if u need me
Posted by Elroy on July 8, 2005, at 14:40:42
In reply to Lou's acceptance of Dr. Hsiung's offer-chmimbal? » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on July 8, 2005, at 10:35:04
An exception that I see that immediately speaks out as an exception occurs with people who develop Cushing's of one form or the other (Cushing's Disease, Cushing's Syndrome, or even Pseudo Cushing's). They have NO mood disorder problems prior to the onset of Cushings and then develop anything from mild to moderate to even very severe depression and / or anxiety due to the excessive levels of cortisol in their bodies. Once the cortisol problem is corrected the depression / anxiety is also cleared up. That correction may be in the form of surgery (i.e., removal of a pituitary tumor or removal of an adrenal gland tumor) OR it may be in the form of medications (as an exciting example, recent studies using the drug RU486 for a very SHORT-TERM application have had amazing results in Pseudo Cushing's type cases).
Clearly an example of a BIOLOGICAL cause of a mood disorder... and that was corrected by (in some cases) pharmaceutical intervention.
Another example, somewhat rare, that comes to mind is that with "Pheo tumors" (pheochromocytoma tumor) of the adrenal gland. A pheo tumor (generally located inside the cortex area of the adrenal gland) causes the generation of excess adrenaline hormones (epinehprine, norepinehprine, etc.) and cause many symptoms... physical ones such as very high blood pressure but also generate extremely severe anxiety. When the pheo tumor is removed and the adrenaline hormones - which are also, BTW, neurotransmitters - brought back into balance, the anxiety disappears.
Clearly an example of a BIOLOGICAL cause of a mood disorder...
Another very obvious example lies in the realm of menopause / andropause situations. Being a male I will focus on the example of andropause. A male has NO mood disorder problems of any type when his testosterone production begins falling. As it continues its downward trend, the male becomes more and more depressed... and as his testosterone decline continues it is accelerated by an aromatase proces that begins escalating and converting more and more testosterone to more and more estradiol (E2, one of the estrogens) leading to an "estrogen dominance" situation in this male. Now his depression may get severe - or he may instead continue to have moderate depression, but now also have severe anxiety and/or panic attacks. The male gets his hormone levels checked and finds that he has abnormally low testosterone and highly elevated estradiol (E2). He then goes into an HRT (hormone replacement therapy) program and gets intermuscular testosterone shots weekly and Arimidex to control his E2 levels - and within a few weeks is feeling great again, with no more depression and/or anxiety!
Clearly an example of a BIOLOGICAL cause of a mood disorder... and that was corrected by pharmaceutical intervention!
In fact, in the latter example, the HRT the male is receiving is very probably prolonging his life and definitely providing for a very high quality of life. HRT (done properly with the use of bioidentical or near bioidentical hormones - and NOT any processed horse urine! - will strengthen his cardivascular system, improve his cholosterol picture, and stop the occurrence on bone loss).
There are clearly biological causes of mood disorders. In addition, when a trauma situation occurs (whether long-term, chronic stress that leads to severe anxiety or an acute trauma situation that leads to depression), it only stands to reason that the stress to the HPA Axis is going to effect the production of various hormones and neurotransmitters. In fact, the dysfunction of the HPA Axis is the primary concept behind several of the Pseudo Cushing's variations. The functions of the brain itself become overloaded and/or otherwise dysfunctional when anxiety or depression settles in for the long haul. Serotonin levels become depleted or dopamine levels become excessive, or cortisol levels become elevated, or whatever cmbination thereof...
Sure, brain brain chemistry is difficult to measure directly, but brain electrical activity, which results from chemical reactions, is now easy to assess with Quantitative Electroencephalography (QEEG), also called brain mapping... just as an EKG measures electrical activity in the heart. (There's also some other brain scanning techniques that are showing very promising results as possible methods of observing brain chemstry and brain chemistry activity)
Dr. Eric Braverman uses a computer with special interfaces and software to record and interpret the four key electrical measures of brain health, those being voltage (or energy), latency (or speed), rhythm (or balance), and synchrony (or symmetry).
According to Dr. Braverman, " ...these measurements reveal everything we need to know about dopamine, acetylcholine, GABA, and serotonin levels, respectively. Brain chemical imbalances are uncovered by lobe-specific brainwave abnormalities."
Maybe, a bit of a "stretch" (i.e., "reveal 'everything' we need to know... ").... but still very promising and more advanced technology.
I also note with interest that Dr. Braverman takes a quite "holistic" approach to his practice:
"Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) correct the neurotransmitter deficiency responsible for causing depression. Xanax and Klonopin do likewise for GABA-deficient anxiety, Aricept addresses acetylcholine-deficient memory loss, and Dexedrine bolsters the brain's dopamine when chronic fatigue presents. But drugs, as effective as they might be, should be the last-not first-resort. With "The Edge Effect", they can be.Amino acids that are the raw material precursors to the neurotransmitters. Tyrosine and phenylalanine are transformed into dopamine; acetylcholine comes from phosphatidyl serine and n-acetyl carnitine; glutamine supports GABA; and tryptophan is the raw ingredient for serotonin."
NOW......
That said, I do agree that there is too much "art" and not enough "science" in the psychiatric field. When SSRI medications came on the field, it was as if psychiatrist (generally) only had a hammer so every problem became a nail.
When I earlier ( a couple of years ago) had mild to moderate anxiety, I was able to handle it with "talk therapy" and some sleep aid assistance (ambien). Why did my p-doc keep trying to put me on SSRI medications? With anxiety it was highly unlikely that I had a serotonin problem! If anything, very low dose Xanax XR might have been a more effective option but as it turned out then I didn't need it. An even better option - with mild to moderate anxiety - would have been to put me on a regimen of certain amino acids (taurine, glutamate) and vitamins (a little extra B6) to build up my likely depleted GABA levels.
But pharmaceutical medications unfortunately DO have their place.
When the bottom fell out (for me) in June of 2004, I tried "toughening it out" for about 3 months, only for the anxiety to continue to get worse and worse. Talk therapy was like trying to pit into a hurricane (accomplishing nothing). I was first put on Ativan and then upped to Xanax XR... and quite honestly believe that I would not be here today had not the Xanax XR been able to "quench the fire" of the raging anxiety that was going on at that time.
As testing would later show (the very next month) I had very high levels of cortisol and was initially thought to have Cushing's. I was also found to now be hypogonadal (again courtesy of highly elevated cortisol). Numerous advanced testings later revealed that I did not have "regular" Cushing's, but an adrenal gland tumor (benign, thanfully) was found and it was suspected to be a Pheo tumor due to the severity of the anxiety.
That turned out to be a negative (several more tests later) and I was finally diagnosed with Pseudo Cushings due to a dysfunctional HPA Axis caused by several years of chronic stress and milder anxiety. I am currently taking the AD "Remeron", not for its AD effects (as I really have fairly mild depression and that comes and goes... and is just from being so pissed off that nothing has "cured" my condition to this point, though many thing, individually, have helped). No, I'm taking the Remeron because a number of clinical trials (remember that phrase) have shown that it has strong effects in lowering cortisol. My GP doc has hopes that we can get the cortisol lowered and keep it down for a sufficient period of time for the HPA Axis to "re-set" itself and bring cortisol production back to normal ranges.
So, it's pretty far-fetched to make generalized claims that there's no such thing as biological causes for mood disorders and psychological problems... even when the cause is one of traumatic issue, it still effects the hormones, the neurotransmitters, the HPA Axis (and as I found in becoming hypogonadal, the HPAT Axis), etc.
And, yes, I have read your links.
Some of it I agreed with....
QUOTE:
In the Florida study, psychiatrists missed diagnosing physical illness in 80% of the cases. Gold said he was "embarrassed" at how bad psychiatrists were at "doctoring" and that one third of psychiatrists admit feeling incompetent to give a patient a complete physical examination. [Mark Gold, The Good News About Depression, 1986, p.22-24]
END QUOTEJust as I stated before, this is a field where often there's too much "art" and not enough "science", too much of a "guessing game" (and often with no logic behind it... why give someone with anxiety a serotonin boosting drug? why give someone with anxiety a norepinehrine boosting drug - which will just make their anxiety worse?)
But I often noted that studies that were cited were older (like the above one, 1986, almost 20 years ago) and / or very minor studies.
But mostly it was simply citing ancedotal cases. This individual was found to have really had this problem, and this other individual was actually found not to have depression but had this brain tumor, etc., etc. There are ALWAYS exceptions, and exception do NOT make the rules, but are exceptions to those rules.
Otherwise, most of what I noted was simply the opinions of various medical individuals. Those opinions can be countered by opposing opinion of other medical authorities back and forth ad nauseum...
And what sources are referred to?
Medicine on Trial
CCHR publication, Psychiatry: Committing Fraud
The Good News About Depression
No More Ritalin, Treating ADHD Without Drugs
The Hyperactivity Hoax
Prescription for Disaster
Etc., etc., etc.Pretty "one-sided" view, no?
Again, views that can be countered by numerous other medical books by other medical authorities that say otherwise.
That said, I will state in my personal opinion that I think that we - as a country and society - ARE overmedicated, that doctors ARE too likely to look for a pharmaceutical response (jeez, with all those sales reps, I wonder why?) and that doctors should take more holistic approaches to both treating symptoms AND finding root causes for full treatment, and that pharmaceuticals should be last-ditch responses when severity simply insists that it must be done (I, for example, would not want to go to the ER with a badly infected arm wound and be given a regimen of vitramins and amino acids to take when clearly some strong antibiotics would be called for to keep from losing the limb - or even worse!).
As to the pharmaceutical companies themselves, I (again my own personal opinion) believe them to simply be necessary evils. They are too profit oriented, often - IMHO - conduct questionable studies, and simply by their mode of operation put too much pressure on doctors to use them as a first resort rather than a last resort.
Elroy
X
X
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X> Dr. Hsiung and all members of this mental-health community.
> I am delighted to accept the offer here by Dr. Hsiung to show reserch that could indicate that the taking of psychotropic could harm your health amd that the statement by Dr. Hsiung that the poster in question's statement has the potential to be accurate and is not overgeneralizing or exaggerating.
> What I will post here is to show where the psychotropic drugs came from, what the chmicals do to those that take them, how pesticides and poisons act and how nerve agents that kill are related to the development of psychotropic drugs. I also will show the relationship with the Nazi regime and psychiatry along with IG Farben and Nazi Germany, Bayer and Hoechst.
> But first I would like for those that are going to post to this thread to take in consideration what is written in the following link concerning the "chemical imbalance" theory of psychiatry.
> Lou Pilder
> http://www.deep-trance.com/treatment/chemical-imbalance.html
Posted by angelbean on July 8, 2005, at 14:50:41
In reply to Re: Quitting Effexor XR - and off of all other med, posted by carolina on July 8, 2005, at 13:14:12
Could someone please tell me what you mean by hyopmanic. I see that here a lot, and am not sure what it is.
Thanks.> > > Thanks for your info. I too think the meds may have made me hypomanic, but then having a lot of energy runs in my family and I don't consider that abnormal.
Posted by angelbean on July 8, 2005, at 15:00:26
In reply to Re: Quitting Effexor XR - and off of all other meds!, posted by carolina on July 8, 2005, at 14:40:03
Thanks for your feedback. The first 3 days I had that 'out of my head' feeling. But on day 4, it subsided. And I am thinking so clearly now. I feel liberated. I believe I'm even breathing better. It's strange.
I don't recommend coming off to anyone, so please don't misunderstand me. My point is only to inform people who are considering stopping that not everyone has the horrific experience I've read so much about.
Anyway, now that I've come to this point, I don't think I'll be turning back. It's funny how introspective I've been over the past couple days. I see things so clearly. I'm looking forward now to making some drastic changes for the better in my life (don't worry, I'll give it some time). I feel great!
> >hey i have stopped effexor b4 and didnt experience any awful side effects except mood swings but i was pregnant and the mood swings cont. so i feel it was the pregnancy, not the effexor causing them :-D i would never stop a med cold turkey ever again just b/c u never know what can happen but i was ok. do u live in a state that has a state type mental health center b/c some states do and even if u have no ins. they base ur fee on a sliding scale and give u samples of the meds if they have them. also u can always apply 4 medicaid in ur state b/c a lot more states are starting to realize mental illness is serious and some will approve state ins. if ur eligable 4 help-even if its just counseling and u dont want meds. i live in sc and i know that at one x sc was the #1 state to approve any needed assistance re: mental health ( i guess they figured most of us are crazy here !!! J/K ) its worth checking into just in case u start 2 feel bad. the info would be in the gov. section of ur phone book-take care and im here if u need me
Posted by carolina on July 8, 2005, at 15:18:53
In reply to Re: My strange experiences with Effexor..., posted by TinMan on July 8, 2005, at 13:23:13
> While I certainly believe that the area of the brain and mind need much more research done, I also believe that Nature has a lot to do with who we are. Women can tell you that each baby while in the womb, has a definite personality. Why does one identical twin have schizophrenia, while the other does not?
>
> It is that whole Nature vs. Nurture thing again. And I honestly believe that genetics have a lot to do with our "mental health" if you will.
>
> The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. That is where therapy and support groups are invaluable. They can help you try something else.
>
> But "talking" or "pulling" myself out of a depression is not possible for me. With the Effexor, I feel that life is certainly worthwhile and I have something to offer. Not something I felt with Paxil. Work and communicate with your Dr. They certainly need the feedback!
>
> Some are straw, some are tin,
> TinMan>i agree w/ u on the nature vs nurture b/c although its just theory, it makes the most sense to me.I believe in the nature b/c stats show that it is not uncommon if 1 member in a family has mental illness of any form, a lot of the time some1 in that same family has the illness also; even if they r raised in seperate environments. i believe that nurture can play a role also if a child grows in an environment that is full of various types of illness and abuse and if not dealt with, can cause depression b/c of the unhealthy "learned" behaviors.just my opinion
Posted by figgycat on July 8, 2005, at 16:14:46
In reply to Re: Quitting Effexor XR - and off of all other meds!, posted by carolina on July 8, 2005, at 14:40:03
I'm tapering down very slowly, by "counting beads" after being on 75 mg for 4 years. It helped my depression, for which I'm grateful, but I don't want to be on it for life. My doc told me to just immediately go to 1/2 a dose - but it was horrible! Nausea, dizziness, bad temper, headaches and weird forgetfullness. I found this website, and decided to wean myself off. So I'm opening up the capsules and taking out beads - 5 or 10 less each day or so, depending on how I feel. This will take a long time, but there are almost no side effects (just mild occasional nausea and "spaciness"). I set the pills up several days ahead in divided pill box so that it's ready to go in the morning, and I don't have to count the damn beads when I'm in a hurry. I keep the leftover beads in an empy pill bottle, so I can use them later when I get down to a low dose (it works to put them in peanut butter, apple sauce or yogurt, if you just need a few). I wish you all well - it's been a great help to know that others are going thru the same thing.
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