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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by woolav on July 5, 2005, at 7:52:43
I am not familiar with this drug, but know its rx'd for adult attn def. disorder, right?? I am wondering if my husband has this, I am going to make him an appt. because he has trouble concentrating, his mind is racing all the time and so to relax he has to have a drink. And that is not the way to relax. Can anyone tell me about this med or what would be good for these types of symptoms? I just want him to have some info before seeing a pdoc. I dont want him put on the wrong meds..
Thanks
S
Posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 9:24:57
In reply to Strattera question??????????, posted by woolav on July 5, 2005, at 7:52:43
> I am not familiar with this drug, but know its rx'd for adult attn def. disorder, right?? I am wondering if my husband has this, I am going to make him an appt. because he has trouble concentrating, his mind is racing all the time and so to relax he has to have a drink. And that is not the way to relax. Can anyone tell me about this med or what would be good for these types of symptoms? I just want him to have some info before seeing a pdoc. I dont want him put on the wrong meds..
> Thanks
> S
Hi Woolav,I took this really briefly, and it was great for my motivation and memory, but the other stuff, well I guess I shouldn't comment since I didn't give it a good go. Anyway it's pretty hit and miss with the drugs and dosages, all pretty individual from what I've read. Check out www.addforums.com It's the best place for ADD info. I'm on Adderall XR and it works best for me. BTW, coffee calms me down/makes me sleepy - weird, huh?
Good luck at the p-doc
Jazzy
Posted by woolav on July 5, 2005, at 11:23:36
In reply to Re: Strattera question?????????? » woolav, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 9:24:57
Posted by Phillipa on July 5, 2005, at 17:28:20
In reply to Re: Strattera question?????????? » woolav, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 9:24:57
Since coffee is a stimulant wouldn't it kind of be like taking a med for ADD? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by blueberry on July 5, 2005, at 17:29:33
In reply to Strattera question??????????, posted by woolav on July 5, 2005, at 7:52:43
For racing mind and hard to relax kind of stuff, I like zyprexa starting at 2.5mg or seroquel 25mg. Side effects aren't bad at these doses, mainly limited to some sedation during the day for the first week or two, and probably the munchies, but other than that they will calm things down and provide some peace and comfort. Good for sleep. Usually good for mood. No long wait to see if it will work...you'll know within hours or a couple days.
Posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:51:50
In reply to Re: Strattera question?????????? » woolav, posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 9:24:57
Anxiety, as well as depression, can mimic ADD, but unless you had ADD prior to the age of 7, you don't meet the DSM-IV criteria.
And since when did ADD have ANYTHING to do with racing thoughts? Can't people accept ADD is often combined with other mental illnesses, like anxiety, the only thing that would cover that symptom?
There's no "racing thoughts" symptom in the DSM-IV for ADD. That's a confusion about people mixing up the physical hyperactivity symptom you might have with it and equating that to how your brain moves, which is not rational to say the least.
I don't ever have "racing thoughts" since taking Klonopin for my anxiety, but that doesn't mean my severe ADD is still with me, or that Klonopin is even close to being an ADD drug.
Also, your husband has alcoholism, not from ADD, or from anxiety, but because he has alcoholism. Treating the anxiety MIGHT help, but keep in mind, it might not. You need to confront both issues, and no doc would ever give a stimulant to someone with substance abuse problems (if they feel like keeping their DEA audit, anyway, anecdotes about your docs aside people).
Stimulants, trust me, in someone with anxiety, speed up racing thoughts, and do not calm them down. I am sick and tired of people in the media claiming that it calms people down because it has some "paradoxial effect" or that you can sleep better because you took a STIMULANT.
Anyone who says this is getting a placebo effect, and needs to notice their heart is higher after taking it, and that ain't going to help your CNS reduce its stimulation in your body, and your sleep will be much less deep, regardless of whether you sleep or not. If you don't believe me, take a sleep test in a lab after taking a stimulant, and they'll show you how your sleep is not entering deeper stages. You can't actually determine this objectively without lab equipment attached to your head. Trust me, I've had 3 sleep studies, so I know what they find.
Posted by yesac on July 6, 2005, at 16:16:09
In reply to uh, Anxiety is not ADD, sorry., posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:51:50
> Anxiety, as well as depression, can mimic ADD, but unless you had ADD prior to the age of 7, you don't meet the DSM-IV criteria.
Who cares? DSM criteria are not the be-all-and-end-all of mental health/illness. Many people do not meet the criteria for various DSM disorders... that doesn't mean that they don't have the problem at all. Humans are not that black and white. It's not necessarily a matter of you have it or you don't. People do not always fit into the boxes that the DSM creates.Her husband may or may not have an attention disorder, or he may have attention problems due to depression or anxiety... Strattera or another ADD med could still help him with those attention symptoms, regardless of what disorder he has.
> There's no "racing thoughts" symptom in the DSM-IV for ADD. That's a confusion about people mixing up the physical hyperactivity symptom you might have with it and equating that to how your brain moves, which is not rational to say the least.
She may not have meant actually racing thoughts, but possibly more like too many thoughts constantly in her husband's head and/or distractability due to too many thoughts. I have ADD and that is how I would describe my thoughts.... many thoughts jumping around and distracting me from paying attention to other things.
> Also, your husband has alcoholism, not from ADD, or from anxiety, but because he has alcoholism.
I don't think you can make that diagnosis from what Woolav said. It's a bit harsh to say a thing like that.
> Stimulants, trust me, in someone with anxiety, speed up racing thoughts, and do not calm them down.
They calm me down. My heart rate may be higher, but I don't equate that with not being calm. Your heart rate speeds up when you exercise, too, but that doesn't mean that you're anxious. I'm sure that stimulants increase anxiety in many people, but I don't think you can make the generalization that it will happen to everyone. My mind feels much more calm on stimulants, despite my anxiety problems.
Your experience is unique, and drugs as well as disorders affect people differently.
Posted by linkadge on July 6, 2005, at 20:13:44
In reply to Re: uh, Anxiety is not ADD, sorry. » utopizen, posted by yesac on July 6, 2005, at 16:16:09
I agree with yesac, that was a little harsh. Who cares what the exact criteria is. Some depressed people eat to much, and some don't eat at all. Although this sounds like anxiety to me too, there is no reason that ADD could not be the case.
My father for instance, now fits the same category. As a child he had all the symptoms of ADHD but was in a pre-ritalin era. As a result he drinks pots of coffee, and makes due. That does not mean that this symptom cluster is not a manifestation of undiagnosed ADD.
That being said, racing mind, and needing to drink to relax, screams anxiety to me. It sounds to me that anxiety is probably more of a culprit than anything.Although "racing mind" may not be on the symptom list, it is well known that some ADD'rs do have this problem, esp since there is a great co-morbidity between ADD and bipoliarity.
If you want a med suggestion, then a low dose TCA might be helpful.
Linkadge
Posted by Jazzed on July 6, 2005, at 22:43:51
In reply to Re: Strattera question??????????, posted by Phillipa on July 5, 2005, at 17:28:20
> Since coffee is a stimulant wouldn't it kind of be like taking a med for ADD? Fondly, Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
Yeah, coffee makes me feel like when I take Ritalin. I get really tired, blek! But the ADD meds that work for me help with concentration, staying on task, memory, and focus, stuff like that, they don't jazz me up at all, I don't feel like I could clean all day or anything, drat! Coffee just makes me want to nap.
Jazzy
Posted by Racer on July 7, 2005, at 12:52:52
In reply to Re: uh, Anxiety is not ADD, sorry., posted by linkadge on July 6, 2005, at 20:13:44
Aside from what Link said, which I agree with, I had another thought:
"Racing Thoughts" can mean different things to different people. It can mean distractibility, with a series of unrelated thoughts following quickly upon one another, or it can mean thoughts on one path, racing through your mind in a little rut, one barely finishing before the next starts. To me, one of those descriptions might sound more like ADD, the other like anxiety.
Just a half formed thought for the board...
Posted by ed_uk on July 7, 2005, at 14:57:38
In reply to 'Nother thought on this one... » linkadge, posted by Racer on July 7, 2005, at 12:52:52
>"Racing Thoughts" can mean different things to different people.
Well said!!! An important point.
~Ed
Posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 15:19:53
In reply to 'Nother thought on this one... » linkadge, posted by Racer on July 7, 2005, at 12:52:52
> Aside from what Link said, which I agree with, I had another thought:
>
> "Racing Thoughts" can mean different things to different people. It can mean distractibility, with a series of unrelated thoughts following quickly upon one another, or it can mean thoughts on one path, racing through your mind in a little rut, one barely finishing before the next starts. To me, one of those descriptions might sound more like ADD, the other like anxiety.
>I agree with this. I have ADD, ans some people say that "lots" of thoughts are racing thoughts. People just express it diff. ways. I have what my p-doc calls "obsessive thoughts", but he said not like obsessive/compulsive, to him it means I can't get to sleep because I keep thinking of things that other ppl put aside to sleep. I think of things I have to do, things I said or should have said, bills I have to pay, etc. Some ppl would call that racing thoughts. I don't have them so much when I'm on the Adderall.
I think of mania when I think of racing thoughts.Jazzy
Posted by yesac on July 7, 2005, at 20:27:28
In reply to Re: 'Nother thought on this one..., posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 15:19:53
>
> I agree with this. I have ADD, ans some people say that "lots" of thoughts are racing thoughts. People just express it diff. ways. I have what my p-doc calls "obsessive thoughts", but he said not like obsessive/compulsive, to him it means I can't get to sleep because I keep thinking of things that other ppl put aside to sleep. I think of things I have to do, things I said or should have said, bills I have to pay, etc. Some ppl would call that racing thoughts. I don't have them so much when I'm on the Adderall.
>
Does it feel at all like anxiety to you? I mean, are you anxious about the things that you have to do, etc? That's how I feel. It's thoughts just like you describe-- the "lots of thoughts" thing, many thoughts distracting me and keeping me from focusing on other stuff at times. And they're hard to put aside. I do have ADD-- but especially in the mornings, these thoughts tend to make me freak out and it's more like anxiety about everything I have to do. Other times the thoughts are just there, not necessarily anxiety provoking, but kind of overwhelming anyways, and bothersome because they keep me from paying attention to other (more important) stuff.I'm not currently taking any ADD med. I've only tried Ritalin and Adderall and didn't like them, plus they didn't seem to work. I want to take something else but I'm not sure what.
Posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 23:18:55
In reply to Re: 'Nother thought on this one... » Jazzed, posted by yesac on July 7, 2005, at 20:27:28
>
>
> Does it feel at all like anxiety to you? I mean, are you anxious about the things that you have to do, etc? That's how I feel. It's thoughts just like you describe-- the "lots of thoughts" thing, many thoughts distracting me and keeping me from focusing on other stuff at times. And they're hard to put aside. I do have ADD-- but especially in the mornings, these thoughts tend to make me freak out and it's more like anxiety about everything I have to do. Other times the thoughts are just there, not necessarily anxiety provoking, but kind of overwhelming anyways, and bothersome because they keep me from paying attention to other (more important) stuff.
>
> I'm not currently taking any ADD med. I've only tried Ritalin and Adderall and didn't like them, plus they didn't seem to work. I want to take something else but I'm not sure what.OMGosh! Yes! Yes! Yes! I live in a constant state of anxiety. It's what keeps me focused to some degree, but it feels horrible sometimes. I think of what I need to do, what I didn't do, what I could be doing, what I should be doing, what didn't get done, what bills need to be paid, what I should have said but didn't say, what I did say but shouldn't have, how I want converstations to to, or every possible way they could go, all the bad stuff that could happen, and on and on and on. When I'm really stressed, I feel every nerve in my body and I am restless. Every day I exercise like a fiend, just to keep my sanity. If there's a day w/o exercise, I am depressed.
I'm on Adderall, and it helps with everything, but by the time I go to bed, it's worn off and I stay up thinking till 2, 3, or 5 AM. Now I have Ambien available to use, and Xanax for anxiety, which really only helps me with the physical aspects of the anxiety. Anxiety is often co-morbid in a lot of adult ADDers.
Strattera was great for memory and motivation for me, but if you ever try it, be sure to titrate up SLOWLY!!! Go to www.addforums.com for advice on that. If your doc does it the way the lit says to do it, it could be bad, it was for me! But at 40 mg I was fine. Forgot how to pee, and sweated like a pig, got suicidal at 80 mg., which was bad, but I think I just went up too fast. 40 to 80 in one week.
Good luck!
Jazzy
Posted by yesac on July 8, 2005, at 16:11:05
In reply to Re: 'Nother thought on this one... » yesac, posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 23:18:55
> OMGosh! Yes! Yes! Yes! I live in a constant state of anxiety. It's what keeps me focused to some degree, but it feels horrible sometimes. I think of what I need to do, what I didn't do, what I could be doing, what I should be doing, what didn't get done, what bills need to be paid, what I should have said but didn't say, what I did say but shouldn't have, how I want converstations to to, or every possible way they could go, all the bad stuff that could happen, and on and on and on.
Wow, cool. I mean, not cool that you have that, but just cool that other people experience this kind of thing. It's hard to say if it's ADD or anxiety, but really I think it's both. Like, having such constant obsessive thoughts and not being able to tune them out might be more because of ADD, but then the thoughts themselves make me anxious often. And a lot of the anxiety is related to ADD issues-- for example, I freak out because I feel so disorganized and it makes me very uneasy and I'm afraid that I can't get my act together and will forget something important, or will lose track of something important like the ten tons of mail that I don't bother to open because I find it too overwhelming.>
> Anxiety is often co-morbid in a lot of adult ADDers.Really? I didn't know that. Maybe because ADD symptoms CAUSE a lot of anxiety... ? Like if I don't pay attention in a class or meeting or whatever, then I get stressed out about not knowing what's going on. And then I feel stupid because I don't know what's going on or know what I'm supposed to do (for example, in labs when I was in college), and then I feel bad/down/depressed.... It's all just one big psychopathological cycle.
>
> Strattera was great for memory and motivation for me, but if you ever try it, be sure to titrate up SLOWLY!!! Go to www.addforums.com for advice on that.Thanks, I'm thinking of trying it soon. I'd like to try Dexedrine, but I think my psychiatrist might not prescribe it for me. I had sort of a bad reaction to Adderall. It really messed me up emotionally, and I'm already pretty messed up! People say that they're all different, like a person can not respond to Ritalin but have a good response to Concerta, or a person can have bad luck with Adderall but not Dexedrine. But I feel like my shrink doesn't believe that or something. He seems to think that if Ritalin didn't work for me, Concerta won't. I'd like to try, just because, well it can't hurt right? But yeah, all I've taken are Ritalin and Adderall and neither seemed to work. How do you know if they work? I mean can you really tell that there's a difference? Is it very noticible?
Posted by Jazzed on July 8, 2005, at 18:07:13
In reply to Re: 'Nother thought on this one... » Jazzed, posted by yesac on July 8, 2005, at 16:11:05
>
> Wow, cool. I mean, not cool that you have that, but just cool that other people experience this kind of thing. It's hard to say if it's ADD or anxiety, but really I think it's both. Like, having such constant obsessive thoughts and not being able to tune them out might be more because of ADD, but then the thoughts themselves make me anxious often. And a lot of the anxiety is related to ADD issues-- for example, I freak out because I feel so disorganized and it makes me very uneasy and I'm afraid that I can't get my act together and will forget something important, or will lose track of something important like the ten tons of mail that I don't bother to open because I find it too overwhelming.
>
LOL, no not at all cool that I feel anxious, or you! I think a lot of it IS related to the ADD. Like when I stress out because I can't seem to get my sh*t together like everyone else, do all the things the other moms do, get my house together like a normal mom, cook a normal dinner, get everything done, blah, blah, blah. I will also start to do things, get distracted start something else, and on and on. Or, will start out to go to the post office, and end up at the other side of town before I remember I was going to the PO! Then I worry what everyone thinks of me, which I think is more anxiety than ADD, but probably caused a lot by the stuff I can't seem to do because I'm so freaking scattered! I take everything personally, every look, every comment, everything.
> Really? I didn't know that. Maybe because ADD symptoms CAUSE a lot of anxiety... ? Like if I don't pay attention in a class or meeting or whatever, then I get stressed out about not knowing what's going on. And then I feel stupid because I don't know what's going on or know what I'm supposed to do (for example, in labs when I was in college), and then I feel bad/down/depressed.... It's all just one big psychopathological cycle.
>Yep, yep, like I always tell everyone....go to
www.addforums.com and you will find the largest community of ADDers anywhere, and you will feel normal!!! I only love babble better!
>
> Thanks, I'm thinking of trying it soon. I'd like to try Dexedrine, but I think my psychiatrist might not prescribe it for me. I had sort of a bad reaction to Adderall. It really messed me up emotionally, and I'm already pretty messed up!Tell me what Adderall did to you. I had a bad reaction the first time. Tell me your dose, and what happened. Bad depression?
>>People say that they're all different, like a person can not respond to Ritalin but have a good response to Concerta, or a person can have bad luck with Adderall but not Dexedrine. But I feel like my shrink doesn't believe that or something.
Oooo, time to see someone who specialized in ADD!
I wouldn't trade my p-doc, he's a specialist and just the best.
>>He seems to think that if Ritalin didn't work for me, Concerta won't. I'd like to try, just because, well it can't hurt right? But yeah, all I've taken are Ritalin and Adderall and neither seemed to work. How do you know if they work? I mean can you really tell that there's a difference? Is it very noticible?The difference is like a different world. I did have problems on strattera, it was not all good.
Get on Babble mail and babble mail me, and we can chat about all of this!jazzy
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