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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pulse on July 2, 2005, at 6:26:56
i decided to try lunesta again at the highest (3mg) pill. this (2nd) time around, i was amazed at the difference. (did not work at all when i was on the 2mgs). this time, i fell asleep within 1/2 hr; slept soundly - one awakening - delivered my (required) 8-9 hrs. woke up refressed/ no hangover effect. no depression. bad taste this time, but very manageable....no biggie.
however, *sleep now, at week 3* - has on 3 nights been 7 or 6 or even (last) 3 hrs ONLY.
i did have a big, very pleasant/ positive, yet 'stressful' surprise a day after i started the lunesta, but this was 3 wks ago. the surprise will very likely be leading to a big, but looked foward to, life change in a few months. i am the type to always think 'stress'/ 'nerves'/ etc. is behind everything. this time, i do NOT - i'm 90% sure it's the lunesta pooping out.
has this happened to anyone else here (lunesta worked very well for awhile - then pooped out?)
Posted by xbunny on July 2, 2005, at 10:37:56
In reply to lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3???, posted by pulse on July 2, 2005, at 6:26:56
> i decided to try lunesta again at the highest (3mg) pill. this (2nd) time around, i was amazed at the difference. (did not work at all when i was on the 2mgs). this time, i fell asleep within 1/2 hr; slept soundly - one awakening - delivered my (required) 8-9 hrs. woke up refressed/ no hangover effect. no depression. bad taste this time, but very manageable....no biggie.
>
> however, *sleep now, at week 3* - has on 3 nights been 7 or 6 or even (last) 3 hrs ONLY.I used to take zopiclone of which lunestra (eszopiclone) is closely related. I found I could only take it continually for about a week before it was tolerated and effectless. Buns
Posted by pulse on July 2, 2005, at 14:45:56
In reply to Re: lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3???, posted by xbunny on July 2, 2005, at 10:37:56
criminently! thanks, i think my hunch is same, but i should correct that this week has been most stressful of the 3.
i am trying HARD to be ever hopeful, tho.
ambien never ever pooped out on me, but i won't dose every 4 hrs to equal 8. plus, i do think the abuse- potential with ambien is, shall i say, 'seductive' .... even tho my only illicit drug of choice has always been a stim (cocaine) & i never, still can't stand, the idea of being 'laid back,' much less zoned/ zonked out.
i wouldn't even have to take a sleep med if it weren't for the fact prozac is the only ad that still works for me... and (more importantly, believe it or not) doesn't make me VERY physically ill GI-wise .
i see melatonin mentioned on another thread - that's known to cause depression in those with major depression.
for those for whom magnesium works (NO calcium please!) what dosage is effective? valerian is out for me.
anyone have any other poop-out lunesta experiences and/ or suggestions for sleep? this insomnia has been going on for the better part of the last 8 yrs and is absolutely ad related ONLY in my case.
(dr. bob - i realize some of this is 'alternative,' but i am getting desperate, so could you please leave it here?)
~ pulse
Posted by Jakeman on July 2, 2005, at 20:20:23
In reply to lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3???, posted by pulse on July 2, 2005, at 6:26:56
After taking 3 mgs of Lunesta for a couple of months I noticed that it was losing some of its punch...I upped the dose to 4.5 and am doing better. According to my sleep Dr. (and Sepracor's study, see below) Lunesta should not poop-out. I have my doubts. For now though I like it better than any other sleep medication that I've tried, including Ambien.
"Among patients with CHRONIC INSOMNIA, a 6-month course of ESZOPICLONE provided improvements in time to sleep onset, sleep maintenance, and sleep quality compared with placebo, with no evidence indicating that eszopiclone-treated patients developed tolerance to the drug."
Krystal AD, Walsh JK, Laska E et al: Sustained efficacy of eszopiclone over 6 months of nightly treatment: results of a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study in adults with chronic insomnia, Sleep 2003; 26(7):793-799.
best regards ~Jake
Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2005, at 22:23:07
In reply to Re: lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3??? » pulse, posted by Jakeman on July 2, 2005, at 20:20:23
Jake, I've still got those vouchers for the 3mg pills of lunesta. I keep forgetting I have them! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Jakeman on July 2, 2005, at 23:30:12
In reply to Re: lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3??? » Jakeman, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2005, at 22:23:07
Phillipa,
Lunesta will face big competition soon when extended release Ambien hits the shelves. I sure they will be giving out coupons for it as well!
best regards ~Jake
Posted by pulse on July 3, 2005, at 11:31:52
In reply to Re: lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3??? » pulse, posted by Jakeman on July 2, 2005, at 20:20:23
much obliged, Jake!!! FYI, i found that same study yesterday. i am saving your recommendation of 4.5 mg to show my doc.
best
~ pulse> After taking 3 mgs of Lunesta for a couple of months I noticed that it was losing some of its punch...I upped the dose to 4.5 and am doing better. According to my sleep Dr. (and Sepracor's study, see below) Lunesta should not poop-out. I have my doubts. For now though I like it better than any other sleep medication that I've tried, including Ambien.
>
> "Among patients with CHRONIC INSOMNIA, a 6-month course of ESZOPICLONE provided improvements in time to sleep onset, sleep maintenance, and sleep quality compared with placebo, with no evidence indicating that eszopiclone-treated patients developed tolerance to the drug."
>
> Krystal AD, Walsh JK, Laska E et al: Sustained efficacy of eszopiclone over 6 months of nightly treatment: results of a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study in adults with chronic insomnia, Sleep 2003; 26(7):793-799.
>
>
> best regards ~Jake
>
Posted by pulse on July 3, 2005, at 11:52:49
In reply to Re: lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3???, posted by pulse on July 3, 2005, at 11:31:52
Jake, another question: are you by any chance also taking klonopin (or perhaps another benzo?) ?
i know that klonopin CAN disturb sleep when taken FOR sleep, after a month or less, but i am NOT taking it for sleep. my klonopin is at a low dosage & being taken for anxiety. i make sure to allow 2-3 hrs after my last klonopin of the day - before taking my lunesta.
best
~pulse
Posted by Jakeman on July 3, 2005, at 13:00:31
In reply to Re: Jake -lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3???, posted by pulse on July 3, 2005, at 11:52:49
I've been taking Klonipin off and on for some time to blunt anxiety and help me to stay asleep. Lately I went back to taking .5 mg about 7pm in the evening. I'm also taking a small dose of Elavil which is relaxing and is supposed to help get into delta-deep sleep. I take the Lunesta at bed-time. Also I take tyrptophan on an occasional basis, and magnesium and vitimin C. My insomnia is so severe that I've had to resort to a combination strategy out of sheer desperation. Right now I'm functional but always looking to make things better.
I've aware that Klonipin can disrupt deep sleep, so I plan on weaning off of it. Or perhaps replacing it and the Elavil with Nuerontin (I see my sleep doctor in two weeks).
I don't have the reference handy but I've read that Lunesta was tested with dosages up to 8 mg, but Sepracor used 3 mg as the standard dosage in order to get the quickest approval from the FDA. Plus there's the 20 year track record of its sister drug, Imovane.
Interestingly, Klonipin is rated as the number one medication for insomnia on Remedyfind.com.
good luck ~Jake
Posted by pulse on July 3, 2005, at 14:02:10
In reply to Re: Jake -lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3??? » pulse, posted by Jakeman on July 3, 2005, at 13:00:31
ty for all these suggestions, Jake. btw, i've had pretty good sleep success from neurontin at the lowest dosage possible, but it's still too constipating for me. would be ditto on that with elavil - for sure! i have upper & lower GI problems that makes this meds dance even more complicated for me. a couple months ago, i was finally, after slow titration down, off the klonopin for 1 month, but my stomach rebelled so badly, i simply had to re-initiate. i'm a real trooper, but i was in near constant pain. my sleep *may* have improved somewhat.
i just got some magnesium. when you take it, what dosage? since i'm a short petite woman, i may have to take less than you, tho(?)
much luck seeing your sleep doc again in 2 weeks!
~ pulse
Posted by Jakeman on July 3, 2005, at 14:29:52
In reply to Re: Jake -lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3???, posted by pulse on July 3, 2005, at 14:02:10
Thanks for sharing your experience with neurontin.
I'm hoping that I will be able to tolerate it. I usually take 400 mg. of magnesium with the evening meal. Some people say to take it between meals...there's been some extended discussions about magnesium on the alternative board, esp. Larry Hoover's posts. I know that it's important to take a form that highly absorpable, such as magnesium glycinate or taurate, not the magnesium oxide.
~Jake
Posted by pulse on July 3, 2005, at 16:37:37
In reply to Re: Jake -lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3??? » pulse, posted by Jakeman on July 3, 2005, at 14:29:52
ty again, Jake. i'd earlier tried the magnesium for one night only. i took 200 mg, with no GI problems, so maybe i, too, can manage 400 mg. i will consider taking it with my evening meal, also, then. i'll also read Larry's magnesium info in alternative.
i suspect you may do well with the neurontin. you might want to see some of BarbaraCat's posts on how uniquely relaxing it is.
i am with others here that neurontin may lose abit of it's punch from time to time, but seems just one night w/out, should put the punch back in...at least, it did for me. also, since not using for mood stabilization, perhaps
more 'give' in playing around with it, but still at low-ish dosages.~ pulse
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2005, at 19:11:08
In reply to Re: Jake -lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3???, posted by pulse on July 3, 2005, at 16:37:37
I'll hold on to those coupons. But I take 400mg of magnesium citrate. You didn't mention this. I do know that you won't be constipated on this type. But as far as it relaxing me I don't think it does. I'm still taking the l0mg of valium for sleep. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Jakeman on July 3, 2005, at 21:47:30
In reply to Re: Jake -lunesta @3mg great; poopout at wk 3???, posted by pulse on July 3, 2005, at 11:52:49
> i know that klonopin CAN disturb sleep when taken FOR sleep, after a month or less, but i am NOT taking it for sleep.
I wanted to add.. as far as I know, the main way that drugs like klonipin disturb sleep is if there is an accompanying issue with sleep apnea... since benzo's can relax the airways which may constribute to an breathing obstruction. Then of course there's the rebound insomnia if discontiued too quickly.
best regards ~Jake
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