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Posted by mworkman on June 23, 2005, at 12:00:16
In reply to Re: Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ?? » linkadge, posted by Jazzed on June 23, 2005, at 9:28:15
I think ssri lower testosteron(sp) indirectly. It should go back to normal once you are off.
Posted by ed_uk on June 23, 2005, at 14:24:03
In reply to Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ??, posted by linkadge on June 22, 2005, at 20:39:15
>No seriously folks, did I screw up hormonal levels during this time and destine myself to manditory celabacy ??
No, I don't think so. I think you'll be able to 'develop' your libido if you work on it a bit ;-)
I've been on SSRIs since I was about 14. When I d/c an SSRI, my libido comes back slowly........very slowly. I'm so used to not thinking about sex it doesn't really cross my mind. Now that you're off SSRIs, I think your libido will reappear gradually. Perhaps you should *deliberately* think about sex and you might soon find that you're enjoying it :-)
~Ed
Posted by linkadge on June 23, 2005, at 15:39:35
In reply to Re: Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ?? » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on June 23, 2005, at 14:24:03
I've just been thinking a lot about how the medications might alter vital neural processes. I mean if the part of my brain that processes sex has been completely shut off, then what other parts of my brain have been shut off over the years?
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on June 23, 2005, at 17:44:35
In reply to Re: Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ??, posted by linkadge on June 23, 2005, at 15:39:35
Hi Link,
>I mean if the part of my brain that processes sex has been completely shut off........
.......but don't you think it was only shut down temporarily?
~Ed
Posted by linkadge on June 23, 2005, at 20:10:10
In reply to Re: Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ?? » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on June 23, 2005, at 17:44:35
I hope so, time will tell.
Linkadge
Posted by Maximus on June 24, 2005, at 21:07:06
In reply to Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ??, posted by linkadge on June 22, 2005, at 20:39:15
SSRIs decrease testosterone level, both in female and male body. After discontinuation of SSRIs, the T level never come back to its "normal" state. Liver enzymes and dopamine pathway (frontal cortex) are involved in this dysregulation; and probably a lot more things too.
Posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 21:15:56
In reply to Re: Yes! » linkadge, posted by Maximus on June 24, 2005, at 21:07:06
Hi Max :-)
>SSRIs decrease testosterone level, both in female and male body.
Do you know of a study which shows this? I had a quick look but I couldn't find one.
Thank you,
~Ed
Posted by Maximus on June 24, 2005, at 21:50:32
In reply to Re: Yes! » Maximus, posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 21:15:56
> Do you know of a study which shows this? I had a quick look but I couldn't find one.
Hi Ed,
http://www.mhsanctuary.com/rx/testos.htm
http://www.terabytetriangle.com/index.php/id=5&article_ID=58.
http://www.preskorn.com/books/ssri_s7.html#p159indirectly
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/482059_15
And of course search on "newsnet", Google -> news. There is a lot of "real" cases.
Posted by Nezirov on June 25, 2005, at 0:10:50
In reply to Re: Yes! » linkadge, posted by Maximus on June 24, 2005, at 21:07:06
> SSRIs decrease testosterone level, both in female and male body. After discontinuation of SSRIs, the T level never come back to its "normal" state. Liver enzymes and dopamine pathway (frontal cortex) are involved in this dysregulation; and probably a lot more things too.
>
Maximus,Do you have any links for the dopamine pathway disruption? Thanks.
N
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2005, at 0:45:28
In reply to Re: Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ??, posted by Declan on June 23, 2005, at 0:17:10
> Hey Jazzed
> Did you find Maca stimulating? It made it difficult for me to sleep properly, I thought, although I never worked out why I couldn't. Hasn't Maca got a wonderful taste?
> DeclanSorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding Maca to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050612/msgs/518487.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Jazzed on June 25, 2005, at 7:20:18
In reply to Redirect: Maca, posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2005, at 0:45:28
Posted by Maximus on June 25, 2005, at 9:58:48
In reply to Re: Yes!, posted by Nezirov on June 25, 2005, at 0:10:50
> > SSRIs decrease testosterone level, both in female and male body. After discontinuation of SSRIs, the T level never come back to its "normal" state. Liver enzymes and dopamine pathway (frontal cortex) are involved in this dysregulation; and probably a lot more things too.
> >
> Maximus,
>
> Do you have any links for the dopamine pathway disruption? Thanks.Sorry, i just came back yesterday from a long trip and i'm a little bit tired/lazy. But search on Google and you will find a lot of research done on this. SSRIs should be taken very briefly. Period.
Bye.
Posted by Nezirov on June 25, 2005, at 14:08:19
In reply to Re: Yes! » Nezirov, posted by Maximus on June 25, 2005, at 9:58:48
Yes, I agree. If I had only taken celexa for a few months rather than two years, I think I would have been OK.
N
Posted by linkadge on June 25, 2005, at 18:10:07
In reply to Re: Yes!, posted by Nezirov on June 25, 2005, at 14:08:19
Yeah, well I'd taken it for more like 4 years. Even less hope for me.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on June 25, 2005, at 20:00:09
In reply to Re: Yes! » ed_uk, posted by Maximus on June 24, 2005, at 21:50:32
Hi Max,
Thank you, that was very interesting :-)
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on June 25, 2005, at 20:06:09
In reply to Re: Yes!, posted by Nezirov on June 25, 2005, at 14:08:19
>Yes, I agree. If I had only taken celexa for a few months rather than two years, I think I would have been OK.
Unfortunately, short-term treatment with SSRIs is not an option for everyone. SSRIs are virtually the only consistently effective drugs for OCD. I'll probably need to take an SSRI for decades. As much as sexual dysfunction is unpleasant, it's trivial compared with severe OCD - if you knew what it was like to suffer 12 hours of obsessions/compulsions per day you'd know what I mean.
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on June 25, 2005, at 20:11:31
In reply to Re: Yes!, posted by Nezirov on June 25, 2005, at 14:08:19
Just to clarify, I certainly don't think sexual dysfuntion is trivial.......but it *is* trivial *compared* to severe obsessive-compulsive disorder.
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on June 25, 2005, at 20:18:53
In reply to Re: Yes!, posted by Nezirov on June 25, 2005, at 14:08:19
PS. I don't like taking Celexa 60mg. It makes me tired and lazy. I have virtually no libido. I also sweat constantly. Maybe I should have my testosterone level measured.
~Ed
Posted by linkadge on June 25, 2005, at 22:14:55
In reply to Re: Yes! » Nezirov, posted by ed_uk on June 25, 2005, at 20:18:53
To me, the idea of sex is trivial. But what scares me, is the idea of these drugs affecting me in other ways long term.
Hormonal ballance is so essential to mental health. I just wonder what the neurolocial long term implications are, to no sex drive.
It's just like appetite surpressants. From a pleasure stand point, I am not worried about eating, but from other stand points, it is a big deal.
Linkadge
Posted by Chairman_MAO on June 26, 2005, at 10:12:18
In reply to Re: Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ??, posted by linkadge on June 23, 2005, at 15:39:35
There is no one "part of your brain that processes sex". If there are people who lead normal lives after having chunks of their brain REMOVED, then I think when you stop taking SSRIs, you will find eventually that your sex drive and libido will be normal. If not, there is pharmacotherapy for that as well (I'm sure you wanted to hear that).
Posted by Nezirov on June 26, 2005, at 15:27:04
In reply to Re: Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ?? » linkadge, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 26, 2005, at 10:12:18
This is a good point, and something that I've thought about as well. But what do you think is causing the persistent sexual dysfunction, which I and others have? Reduced testosterone, or something worse and more obscure and insidious.
I don't think it is brain damage in the traditional sense of death of neurons (well I really hope not - that would be just too terrible). More likely, I think, is that the neurons have undergone behavioral alterations that are not reversing for some reason, even though they seem to revese for most people. It's as though they're stuck in an abnormal pattern of biological activity. That could be reduction in the number of serotonin receptors, or dopamine receptors or whatever. Though I have a feeling it's probably more complicated than that.
But as long as the neurons contain DNA, there is no reason why they can't synthesize new receptors or transporters or whatever they need to function normally again. For some reason they're not getting the correct signals to do that.
But I know that the process is reversible because there was one day a few months ago when I was in a kind of "hypersexual" mode, had a libido, and could orgasm easily. But it didn't last, and everything returned to the hyposexual state.
Here's what I'm thinking: When you take any drug, especially something that interferes with hormones or neurotransmitters, the expression of many genes is altered. As you know, the body is a complex system, a network, and you can't just change one parameter without changing others. There are probably changes in hundreds of genes when you put psychoactive drugs in your body (actaually there is research to prove this). Those changes may not be all that large for individual genes, but because there are so many changes, the *net* result is profound. This is not that good of an analogy, but if you're listening to music, and you tweak each dial on the graphic equalizer just a little, you can get quite a different sound coming out of the speakers. Even if you only move each dial a little bit, because there are many dials, the overall change is large. That's what I think is going on here and why there are so many different side effects from SSRIs.
It will be difficult to fix I think, but not impossible.
Posted by Nezirov on June 26, 2005, at 15:28:02
In reply to Re: Can SSRI anorgazmia mess up hormones ?? » linkadge, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 26, 2005, at 10:12:18
How long did it take for your sexual functioning to return to normal when you quit SSRIs?
Nezirov
Posted by barbaracat on June 27, 2005, at 1:48:44
In reply to Re: Yes! » linkadge, posted by Maximus on June 24, 2005, at 21:07:06
I've read this also, can't cite the references. However, you'd have to assume that receptors and pathways would resume normal function after a certain timeframe.
My husband was on Zoloft for over a year and was aghast at how it affected him. His T count was very low even a year after stopping. He maintains that things have not been the same since. He takes injections of testosterone so he's not exactly suffering, but my question remains. Cells/enzymes should regenerate to normal levels after a while. Why do we have this sneaking suspicion that these meds are permanently changing us?
> SSRIs decrease testosterone level, both in female and male body. After discontinuation of SSRIs, the T level never come back to its "normal" state. Liver enzymes and dopamine pathway (frontal cortex) are involved in this dysregulation; and probably a lot more things too.
>
>
Posted by Nezirov on June 27, 2005, at 3:38:35
In reply to Re: Yes! » Maximus, posted by barbaracat on June 27, 2005, at 1:48:44
Hi,
So he still has sexual dysfuntion/low libido even though he is taking testosterone?
N
Posted by barbaracat on June 27, 2005, at 13:35:38
In reply to Re: Yes!, posted by Nezirov on June 27, 2005, at 3:38:35
For a 54 year old guy he's doing quite allright, much better than 10 years ago when he was going through alot of work related anxiety and depression. It's certainly not like the bunny-romping in the early days of our relationship but it has definitely improved. He's also now taking 300mg Wellbutrin which helps both with his mood and libido. His depressions are of the blah lethargic type that sap him of will for anything.
It was interesting with the Zoloft because while he was taking it there wasn't much of a problem except for delayed ejacs (I didn't complain, understand). It was only after he had stopped that he started having dysfunction.
He feels the testosterone (testosterone cyprionate) helps in general with energy and well-being and the WB helps with motivation. As long as he's getting exercise and staying involved and motivated with life, it extends to his sexual energy. In other words, supplementing the physical supports and enhances his general emotional lust for life. After all, interest in sex is usually the last thing a person is interested in when they feel physically and emotionally sick.
One other important factor is that we as a couple are alot happier in our relationship, mainly because it got to the point where we had to decide if we were committed to doing the difficult work to make it work, or split up. I'm not sure if liking each other is as important to a guy as it definitely is to a woman, but it can't hurt. Put bluntly, when we're pissed at each other, the last thing we want is a roll in the hay - at least with each other. - Barbara
> Hi,
>
> So he still has sexual dysfuntion/low libido even though he is taking testosterone?
>
> N
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