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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 13:59:27
In addition to Nardil and Depakote, I've been taking Vivarin as needed to try and lift my spirits...can caffeine possibly be all that helpful?
Posted by willyee on June 4, 2005, at 14:28:14
In reply to Caffeine for depression?, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 13:59:27
> In addition to Nardil and Depakote, I've been taking Vivarin as needed to try and lift my spirits...can caffeine possibly be all that helpful?
Nardil affects dopamine less than parnate,BUT also effects gaba,depakote effects gaba too,so it makes perfect since that u might be craving a stimulant to ehance dopamine,id imagine you prob crave cigarettes more too if u smoke.
I take pure caffiene when parnate fatigue sets in,and i get from it a mood lift and energy,nothing like caffiene alone.
Last to ease ur mind,i read in a few places caffiene has postive effects on dopamine,so with the meds ur taking i am not surprised at all if ur both smoking more and taking caffiene,i know its helped me tremndously with my med.
Posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 16:11:10
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression?, posted by willyee on June 4, 2005, at 14:28:14
My pdoc has said that he's found Parnate to be more effective for depression than Nardil...maybe that has something to do with the fact that it prevents the breakdown of dopamine more potently. He said Nardil inhibits the breakdown of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine, but didn't mention GABA. I would think that Depakote's more responsible for the dopamine cravings than Nardil, wouldn't you?
Posted by willyee on June 4, 2005, at 16:39:34
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression? » willyee, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 16:11:10
> My pdoc has said that he's found Parnate to be more effective for depression than Nardil...maybe that has something to do with the fact that it prevents the breakdown of dopamine more potently. He said Nardil inhibits the breakdown of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine, but didn't mention GABA. I would think that Depakote's more responsible for the dopamine cravings than Nardil, wouldn't you?
Im not good at explaining chemistry,so ill say it in lamons terms as i remember,nardils metabolite DOES very much have an effect on gaba,parnate from what i read actualy can decrease gaba levels,this was in one of those snipplets from the good drug guide.So yess unlike parnate Nardil does effect gaba,as well as has a lower effect on dopamine then parnate does.I guess this would fit two profiles,one of a bed ridden type depression (parnate) the other of a maniac anxiety filled depression (Nardil).
As to any debate over which is better parnate or nardil is a pointless one,youll have people who swear by both,so to say one is more effective than the other is mere opinion,it seems to be simply an individual thing,some will respond great to one and praise it,while responding horrable to the other and curse it.Both regardless seem to be the most effective meds avaialble.
P.S Any gaba med makes me crave cigarettes in the worst way,i work out and have failed quitting numerous times.
Posted by willyee on June 4, 2005, at 16:55:49
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression?, posted by willyee on June 4, 2005, at 16:39:34
I should have put this in my post.When i switched from parnate to nardil i felt horrable,i stayed on it a while since i really wanted it to work.Finaly it was clear i had to get off.
I upon specific reasons and at my own doing did not wash out,i posted this many times that the next day when i restarted parnate i had a tremendous remission of depression and anxiety,actualy i prob felt better than i could want.
To this i wonder if the different propeties of the two drugs would togther make a incredably effective med.I read on a few posts similiar situations as well.
I deemed it too dangerous to attempt taking both,but knowing me im sure ill end up doing it.If i do i would take one dose only of nardil in the morning,since its ir-revsable and the later take parnate for the remainder of the day.Parnate has a debate on being a reversable one and i know for a fact it feels like its inactive after a few hours,so i would hope to have nardil slowly build up a foundation and take parnate there on.This of course if i choose to ever do this.
Aside from that,i was surprised that vivarin seemed to have a synergy with parnate,one would have thought the addition of it with parnate would have drove one mad,but for whatever reason it just caused a little jitterness but much more benifit.
With caffien working so well with parnate,i looked back and wondered if nardil might have worked better had i cut any sedatives,in ur case depakote and instead added caffiene.Are you holding back,is it possable adding the caffiene more often might help nardil turn around for u?.
Last,and god i know this is a long post,im sure u know,but just a reminder theres a hurd of people gaining more succes with nardil by the use of inserting it in a specifc capsule,there are a lot of threads here on the capsule to use,just in case u werent aware of it.Sorry for the post but maois really spark my interest.
Posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 17:24:37
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression?, posted by willyee on June 4, 2005, at 16:55:49
I'm interested in MAOIs too, considering I'm on one...I have been holding back on the Vivarin since my psychiatrist told me to limit my caffeine intake. About a week and a half ago, I stopped taking Depakote because I thought it might be adding to my depression. I felt even worse without it, which I didn't think was possible. When I saw my doctor the other day, he suggested if things don't improve we could try Nardil and Lamictal or Parnate and Depakote...which is weird because both seem like they're worth a shot.
Posted by willyee on June 4, 2005, at 17:55:50
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression? » willyee, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 17:24:37
> I'm interested in MAOIs too, considering I'm on one...I have been holding back on the Vivarin since my psychiatrist told me to limit my caffeine intake. About a week and a half ago, I stopped taking Depakote because I thought it might be adding to my depression. I felt even worse without it, which I didn't think was possible. When I saw my doctor the other day, he suggested if things don't improve we could try Nardil and Lamictal or Parnate and Depakote...which is weird because both seem like they're worth a shot.
Well i am of course not a doc,lol god help us all if i were,but i personaly dont see lamictal helping depression.I took it and it definatly spiked depression with parnate.Personaly id add a stimulant,and beings how caffiene is fairly safe id try to keep it simple and use that.You have depakote,so that sorta helps,u can add the caffiene more often and use a benzo should u have any excess stimulation.
I know the maois say no caffiene,well there were days where the caffiene totaly gave parnate the boost i needed without any doubt,so i think ill go with how i feel over any maoi resttictions.
What i did do is switch to only water and sprite to lower my general caffeine intake from soda,and after a year of use with caffiene with parnate the worst thats happened is some mild anxiety which is expectable.
I hated lamictal.
Posted by phillipa on June 4, 2005, at 20:21:23
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression?, posted by willyee on June 4, 2005, at 17:55:50
Doesn't valium affect Gaba? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by willyee on June 4, 2005, at 20:45:23
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression? » willyee, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 17:24:37
> I'm interested in MAOIs too, considering I'm on one...I have been holding back on the Vivarin since my psychiatrist told me to limit my caffeine intake. About a week and a half ago, I stopped taking Depakote because I thought it might be adding to my depression. I felt even worse without it, which I didn't think was possible. When I saw my doctor the other day, he suggested if things don't improve we could try Nardil and Lamictal or Parnate and Depakote...which is weird because both seem like they're worth a shot.
Hey dont wanna tie the board up anymore with this single thread,but there are some things id like to discuss,if you find any free time please email me at brklyn234@yahoo.com,at ur convienance.
Posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 21:06:37
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression?, posted by phillipa on June 4, 2005, at 20:21:23
> Doesn't valium affect Gaba? Fondly, Phillipa
Yeah, it's a benzo...they affect GABA.
Posted by linkadge on June 5, 2005, at 18:17:08
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression? » phillipa, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 21:06:37
There was a study done that showed that women who drank three + cups of coffee per day, had a significant reduction in suicide attemps/competions.
I was wondering if inositol depletion was a common mechanism for lithium and caffiene's reduction in suicidiality.
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on June 5, 2005, at 23:40:16
In reply to Caffiene, suicide reduction, posted by linkadge on June 5, 2005, at 18:17:08
I know this is anecdotal, but Stalin's wife was prescribed caffeine for her depression/or whatever it was. It seemed not to work, anyway she shot herself.
If I need caffeine I'd much rather it in coffee or better, tea, than in a tablet.
Declan
Posted by SLS on June 6, 2005, at 4:46:59
In reply to Caffeine for depression?, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 13:59:27
> In addition to Nardil and Depakote, I've been taking Vivarin as needed to try and lift my spirits...can caffeine possibly be all that helpful?
Caffeine has been about the only drug I can always depend on to increase my functionality. I try to use it in a way that will have the most impact. I don't use it every day, and when I do use it, I carefully measure out the amount that is optimal for the energy and cognitive enhancing effect. For me, too much is worse than not enough.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on June 6, 2005, at 12:12:40
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression?, posted by SLS on June 6, 2005, at 4:46:59
Caffeine pills don't seem to affect me. They seem like a placebo!
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on June 6, 2005, at 16:19:07
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression?, posted by ed_uk on June 6, 2005, at 12:12:40
I experience no ill effects from even extremely high doses of caffiene.
It has some of the properties of an antidepressant but not all of them.
Linkadge
Posted by laurenjb on June 8, 2005, at 0:37:59
In reply to Re: Caffeine for depression?, posted by linkadge on June 6, 2005, at 16:19:07
I'm curious about those of you taking caffeine with Parnate. First of all, I just started Parnate a week ago and have just stopped being a complete zombie, even though my doctor told me it was energizing. I have tremendous sleep problems and stopped all caffeine a few months ago. How do you find the caffeine use affecting your sleep while on Parnate? Thanks, Lauren
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 8, 2005, at 1:15:18
In reply to Caffeine for depression?, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 13:59:27
Although I often forget to mention it, caffeine is one of the "medications" I use to treat my mood disorder. Every day begins with 30mg adderall and 200mg caffeine. I find these helpful for residual fatigue, and cognitive dysfunction. Have to be careful not to consume too much coffee after that however or i can get overfocused, too "in my head", anxious, etc...
I cannot imagine life without caffeine. Despite the potential for side effects I mentioned above, It may be the backbone at this point of my drug cocktail. I've given up many controlled substances(for good as I'm in sobriety) but caffeine for me ranks up there with food, air, and water.
Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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