![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FredPotter on June 1, 2005, at 20:27:48
Does anyone know what I mean? I tend to suffer deep dread that comes out of the ground, crawls up my legs and hits me in the guts. Xanax doesn't help much with this. The jitters however and the dreaded panic that is linked to feelings of suffocation do respond to it (I think)
Posted by TamaraJ on June 1, 2005, at 20:49:50
In reply to deep and surface anxiety, posted by FredPotter on June 1, 2005, at 20:27:48
Hi Fred,
I think I know what you mean, and it is an unnerving feeling. I seem to recall that you are taking Celexa, and have been for some time now. Perhaps it is time to look at a new AD. I did not find Celexa particularly helpful for the feelings of dread that seem to come out of nowhere. Now, when Paxil worked for me (for many years, actually), I didn't have the dread, and only had to use Xanax occassionally. I have found that Nortriptyline has been somewhat useful for the dread. I have also found some of my feelings of dread and apprehension to be tied somewhat to a bit of lingering depression.
I hope you can find a way to deal with the dread. I know how awful and somewhat overpowering that feeling can be. You take care.
Tamara
> Does anyone know what I mean? I tend to suffer deep dread that comes out of the ground, crawls up my legs and hits me in the guts. Xanax doesn't help much with this. The jitters however and the dreaded panic that is linked to feelings of suffocation do respond to it (I think)
Posted by willyee on June 1, 2005, at 20:52:12
In reply to deep and surface anxiety, posted by FredPotter on June 1, 2005, at 20:27:48
> Does anyone know what I mean? I tend to suffer deep dread that comes out of the ground, crawls up my legs and hits me in the guts. Xanax doesn't help much with this. The jitters however and the dreaded panic that is linked to feelings of suffocation do respond to it (I think),
Oh yeah,your not alone there,i also love the notorious morning anxiety,,that sinking feeling in ur gut on a bad morning where u feel like u wanna puke,its a great start to ones day.
Posted by Declan on June 1, 2005, at 21:43:38
In reply to deep and surface anxiety, posted by FredPotter on June 1, 2005, at 20:27:48
Yeah I know what you mean. What did you think about "freezing behaviour" that someone (Ed? Scott?) posted. One reason I took opiates was that they seemed to make voluntary actions possible. As I've got older (now 52) the dread is lessened. I don't get trapped nearly as much. Opiates for the dread, benzos for the jitters. Anyway these things are part of life. From the old (I assume, it's so long since I've been) Anglican evening service......"Lighten our darkness, we beseech thee, O Lord; and by thy great mercy defend us from all perils and dangers of this night; for the love of thy only Son, our Saviour Jesus Christ." We are no less in denial now than then. Hope this makes some sense.
Declan
Posted by Phillipa on June 1, 2005, at 22:48:29
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety, posted by Declan on June 1, 2005, at 21:43:38
It's tough to get up in the morning. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by JenStar on June 2, 2005, at 10:24:05
In reply to deep and surface anxiety, posted by FredPotter on June 1, 2005, at 20:27:48
Fred, that's a beautiful description! The feeling is ugly and I know it; that's why your description hit it right on for me. I feel that kind of crawling anxiety sometimes too!
For me, taking Lexapro has helped. I took it once about 2 years ago, then felt better & stopped. Lately I've been having that anxiety again, so I re-started Lexapro. It took about 4 weeks but it's finally working! I still get a certain level of anxiety, but that deep, clenching body-wasting anxiety is subsiding. (whew!)
Do you take anything now or in the past that has ever helped? I hope you feel better!
JenStar
Posted by FredPotter on June 2, 2005, at 16:01:26
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety » FredPotter, posted by JenStar on June 2, 2005, at 10:24:05
Thanks Jenstar No drug seems to help, apart from alcohol and I don't drink anymore. There's usually something in the background of my life that is behind it. Hence the looming feeling I suppose. Feeling the fear and getting on with life anyway seems for me to be the only way
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2005, at 17:10:21
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety » JenStar, posted by FredPotter on June 2, 2005, at 16:01:26
JenStar, You're one of the lucky ones that can stop a med and then have it work for them again. Don't stop too often. Maybe if you periodically feel good enough to go off meds you could try therapy and not need meds again. Just a thought. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Elroy on June 3, 2005, at 16:35:29
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety » JenStar, posted by FredPotter on June 2, 2005, at 16:01:26
Fred,
Yes, know exactly what you mean.
I have tried Ativan (no luck at all) and was then moved to Xanax XR (1mg x 2 daily). It does a nice job with the active (jittery) type anxiety but nothing for the strong background (deep dread) anxiety - and it is there in the background about 90% of the time.
I too used to be a drinker - and a fairly heavy drinker (which I think now was indeed a form of self-medication) - and wonder if that's somehow connected.
Two suggestions.
Number one, I have been involved - for just a few weeks - with EMDR therapy. It has worked wonders. With some people it can have very quick results with complete remissions. With others (with lots of background problems over a lot of years), it can take quite a bit longer. I appear to be one of the latter types unfortunately... but have still been very, very impressed with the therapy.
For more info see:
http://www.remedyfind.com/rem.asp?id=7766
http://www.remedyfind.com/rem.asp?id=5779
http://www.remedyfind.com/rem.asp?id=4144
http://www.remedyfind.com/rem.asp?id=12635
http://www.remedyfind.com/rem.asp?id=12636Not sure if there's any postings on this Board concerning EMDR or not (it stands for "Eye Movement Desensitization" something or the other).
Also, would strongly look into having your cortisol levels checked. I found out - after the development of my severe anxiety problems about one year ago (prior to that had a couple years of very low level anxiety and about 4 years of chronic high stress) - that I had highly elevated levels of cortisol. We're talking at the time levels that were about 5- 6 times the normal maximum of the reference range. The levels were so high that I had to go through a lot of advanced testing to see if it was Cushing's Disease or not (it wasn't). One of the things that I did find out (through research and discussions with Endos) was that elevated cortisol can cause anxiety and / or depression (actually "manufacture" it) or escalate exisiting conditions.
Finally, would want to also have testing done to see if you have a Pheo tumor or not. That is a tumor located inside the adrenal gland that causes a lot of grief through the excessive otuput of your adrenaline type hormones and neurotransmitters (especially epinephrine and norepinephrine). A very specific symptom is very high levels of anxiety. Generally very high blood pressure is symptomatic of a Pheo tumor, but as many as 20% of Pheo positive patients do not reflect BP problems.
BTW, if it's a high cortisol problem, you can attempt to address it with various supplements, but their effects appear to be most positive in only marginally high cortisol cases. The other legitimate response at this time appears to be Remeron. There are some relatively recent studies that show it apparently has a quite strong effect on cortisol levels (even in "normal cortisol" people). A very recent study report released (like last week) showed that Remeron was statistically more effective than SSRIs...
http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/8525697700573E188525700E00608A93
General info:
http://qualitycounts.com/drugs/remeron_mirtazapine.html
In my own case, there appears to be "something" holding back the EMDR from being a complete breakthrough. My hope is that the Remeron WILL be effective in significantly lowering the cortisol and that it is the highly elevated cortisol that is (A) keeping the anxiety going and (B) preventing the EMDR therapy from being completely effective.
In any case, would check out the EMDR therapy and see if you have a qualified therapist in your area (my current therapist is moving out of state in a couple weeks and is herself locating a replacement EMDR therapist for me - as she was the only one in their office!).
Elroy
P.S. Do you have any physical symptoms involved with your anxiety? Tinnitus? Insomnia? Loss of libido? Extremities pains?
X
X
X
X> Thanks Jenstar No drug seems to help, apart from alcohol and I don't drink anymore. There's usually something in the background of my life that is behind it. Hence the looming feeling I suppose. Feeling the fear and getting on with life anyway seems for me to be the only way
> Fred
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 3, 2005, at 20:54:44
In reply to deep and surface anxiety, posted by FredPotter on June 1, 2005, at 20:27:48
As some other posters noted, ssri's also helped me when I actually take them (years ago). I have however found that gabapentin (neurontin) and also depakote (to a lesser extent) relieve my 'dread' so long as I'm also on a benzo. I only need small doses.
The combo of clonazepam and neurontin squashes the 'dread' for me these days.
Scott
Posted by FredPotter on June 6, 2005, at 16:22:09
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety » FredPotter, posted by Mr.Scott on June 3, 2005, at 20:54:44
Thanks Elroy and Mr Scott. I'll read up all the latest on EMDR when I have a minute though I think psychotherapy around here is still at the casting out demons phase. I was under the impression that things like EMDR and NLP had been discredited, but I hope I'm wrong.
Yes I've had loss of libido but that was due to Celexa. Tinnitus is always there. I don't know what causes that. Perhaps sitting too close to the drummer. I haven't heard about combining neurontin with a benzo before. Thanks I'll mention it to my pdoc, although I do take lithium and Xanax. Would you expect the same thing from them?
Fred
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 6, 2005, at 22:47:25
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety, posted by FredPotter on June 6, 2005, at 16:22:09
Hey Fred!I think there is something unique about the benzo neurontin combo. At least for me. It's worth trying. If you get a chance, let me know how it works out for you, and I'll know if I'm unique or the combo is unique! :-)
Scott
Posted by Elroy on June 7, 2005, at 19:39:18
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety » FredPotter, posted by Mr.Scott on June 6, 2005, at 22:47:25
Be interesting to see how things could work out in that direction once (if??) Pfizer gets around to releasing Lyrica. Some reports show that it has significant anti-anxiety effects in addition to being better at pain relief than Neurontin. In fact, I believe that it is approved in Europe as an anti-anxiety med in addition to neuropathy type pain reliefs.
But possibly a lose dose benzo combined with Lyrica???
Hmmm.....
Elroy
X
X
X
>
> Hey Fred!
>
> I think there is something unique about the benzo neurontin combo. At least for me. It's worth trying. If you get a chance, let me know how it works out for you, and I'll know if I'm unique or the combo is unique! :-)
>
> Scott
Posted by honey on June 8, 2005, at 5:34:45
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety, posted by FredPotter on June 6, 2005, at 16:22:09
Sorry, late to the thread (and new to the board, hi). Fred, your description is exactly the word I use to try to describe to others what this "other"' type of anxiety is: Dread. Like someone just died, or I am about to die, or something terrible is about to happen. For me it's periodic, but unshakable while present. So interested to read comments.
Does anyone know if Neurontin/Lyrica are available in the UK on the NHS? I currently only take diazepam.
Posted by ed_uk on June 8, 2005, at 7:59:57
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety, posted by honey on June 8, 2005, at 5:34:45
Hi,
>Does anyone know if Neurontin/Lyrica are available in the UK on the NHS?
Yes, both drugs are available in the UK. Gabapentin (Neurontin) is widely prescribed for neuropathic pain and epilepsy.
Ed.
Posted by FredPotter on June 8, 2005, at 22:24:22
In reply to Re: deep and surface anxiety, posted by honey on June 8, 2005, at 5:34:45
Thanks Honey When I first starting suffering anxiety illness I looked it up in an encyclopoedia. It said, "Anxiety Neurosis: symptoms - nameless dread . . . " etc. That's still the best description I know of. The important component, the one that makes it a sickness, the one that makes it something one can't just face up to or to learn Life's lessons from, is that it has no focus, although as it recedes into the past it is often possible for me to see a general backdrop that would have given a general sense of insecurity or loss
Fred
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.