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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 1, 2005, at 22:18:48
Hi everyone,
I recently reduced my Nardil dose from 67.5 mg to 60 mg. No big deal, you would think. But for the last two days, I've been needing an excessive amount of sleep, and I'm dreaming constantly. I used to dream pretty regularly before going on Nardil, but Nardil has been suppressing this.So is this REM rebound? How long does it typically last? I really can't afford to be CRAVING sleep like this! And I'm also very active in my sleep. I woke myself up "trying to close the garage door" that I was dreaming about. I never used to "act out" my dreams before Nardil, but last time this happened I almost punched my husband in my sleep--I hit the pillow right next to his head. Oy!
Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
gg
Posted by JayDee on June 2, 2005, at 0:01:50
In reply to REM rebound?, posted by gardenergirl on June 1, 2005, at 22:18:48
when I switched from brand to generic prozac, I had a week of this... I had a very vivid dream, in which in the end I punched my dad twice in the face, what woke me up was the pain from my bleeding fist from punching the stucco wall next to the bed.
I also would YELL/SCREAM in my dream so loud that it would wake me up. somthing like "shut the **** up!!" twice in a row before I would wake up.
btw.. ended up going back to brand prozac.so..uh... you're not alone.
Posted by JayDee on June 2, 2005, at 0:05:59
In reply to Re: REM rebound?, posted by JayDee on June 2, 2005, at 0:01:50
on that note, I may have some fun tonight! Ran out of procac and was only able to take a 1/2 dose. gnite!
Posted by SLS on June 2, 2005, at 8:45:30
In reply to REM rebound?, posted by gardenergirl on June 1, 2005, at 22:18:48
> Hi everyone,
> I recently reduced my Nardil dose from 67.5 mg to 60 mg. No big deal, you would think. But for the last two days, I've been needing an excessive amount of sleep, and I'm dreaming constantly. I used to dream pretty regularly before going on Nardil, but Nardil has been suppressing this.
>
> So is this REM rebound? How long does it typically last? I really can't afford to be CRAVING sleep like this! And I'm also very active in my sleep. I woke myself up "trying to close the garage door" that I was dreaming about. I never used to "act out" my dreams before Nardil, but last time this happened I almost punched my husband in my sleep--I hit the pillow right next to his head. Oy!
>
> Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
>
> gg
It does sound like REM rebound precipitated by the reduction of dosage. One can only guess how long it might take for this effect to dissipate, but I'm reasonably sure that it is only a matter of days. This has been my experience when discontinuing MAOIs when they still had REM suppressive power for me.I'll offer the possiblity that the dosage at which REM returns is the dosage that Nardil begins to lose its therapeutic effect. Perhaps the antidepressant power of Nardil is associated with the extent it suppresses REM. In other words, if you find yourself relapsing at 60mg, don't be terribly surprised. Of course, I hope for you a different scenario. I guess we'll have to see.
- Scott
Posted by djmmm on June 2, 2005, at 11:55:35
In reply to REM rebound?, posted by gardenergirl on June 1, 2005, at 22:18:48
> Hi everyone,
> I recently reduced my Nardil dose from 67.5 mg to 60 mg. No big deal, you would think. But for the last two days, I've been needing an excessive amount of sleep, and I'm dreaming constantly. I used to dream pretty regularly before going on Nardil, but Nardil has been suppressing this.
>
> So is this REM rebound? How long does it typically last? I really can't afford to be CRAVING sleep like this! And I'm also very active in my sleep. I woke myself up "trying to close the garage door" that I was dreaming about. I never used to "act out" my dreams before Nardil, but last time this happened I almost punched my husband in my sleep--I hit the pillow right next to his head. Oy!
>
> Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
>
> ggREM rebound was probably the most annoying of the side-effects I got from Nardil *I had very few side effects*
The side effects went away after a few weeks. But during this first couple of weeks, I would have sleep attacks, with cateplexy, my doc considered narcolepsy, but, again, the attacks went away after a few weeks. They were annoying, I felt a uncontrolable need for sleep, and would fall asleep just about anywhere..but just for a few moments..It was very strange, I would begin to dream almost immediately after my eyes closed!
Nardil can also cause myoclonic jerks (flailing arms)
Posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2005, at 15:31:32
In reply to Re: REM rebound?, posted by JayDee on June 2, 2005, at 0:01:50
Ow! sorry you connected with something hard on your punch. I won't ask about you dreaming about punching your dad. :)
And if you dreamed last night, I hope it was pleasant.
Take care,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2005, at 15:35:40
In reply to Re: REM rebound?, posted by SLS on June 2, 2005, at 8:45:30
>
> I'll offer the possiblity that the dosage at which REM returns is the dosage that Nardil begins to lose its therapeutic effect. Perhaps the antidepressant power of Nardil is associated with the extent it suppresses REM. In other words, if you find yourself relapsing at 60mg, don't be terribly surprised. Of course, I hope for you a different scenario. I guess we'll have to see.This makes sense, although I don't have a sense of this correlation in my experience. I haven't paid that much attention to it, though. I usually don't stay at 67.5 very long. 60 mg seems solid to me unless I am under a lot of stress. 45 was good for awhile, but when I try to go back down to that level, depression seems to always reappear. I'll have to pay attention to whether REM gets suppressed again.
And hopefully, the Lamictal will pick up what might drop with Nardil. That's the goal, anyway--lowering Nardil.
Thanks!
gg
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2005, at 15:38:17
In reply to Re: REM rebound?, posted by djmmm on June 2, 2005, at 11:55:35
>
> REM rebound was probably the most annoying of the side-effects I got from Nardil *I had very few side effects*
>
> The side effects went away after a few weeks. But during this first couple of weeks, I would have sleep attacks, with cateplexy, my doc considered narcolepsy, but, again, the attacks went away after a few weeks. They were annoying, I felt a uncontrolable need for sleep, and would fall asleep just about anywhere..but just for a few moments..It was very strange, I would begin to dream almost immediately after my eyes closed!Wow! I found I just had to go back to bed yesterday. I then slept for another six hours. But it wasn't as sudden as you describe. That would be hard to deal with.
And oh yes...myoclonic jerks...my favorite--not. I get those everytime I lower the dose. Good thing my hubby is a very heavy sleeper!
Thanks,
gg
Posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2005, at 17:58:46
In reply to Re: REM rebound? » djmmm, posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2005, at 15:38:17
gg, Do you think the stress is causing this? I was doing a lot of dreaming when I had decisions to make. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on June 3, 2005, at 0:19:04
In reply to Re: REM rebound?, posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2005, at 17:58:46
Hmmm, last time I went through a period of dreaming and also acting them out in my sleep I was stirred up about some stuff in therapy. And the dreams seemed to be a way for me to find closure on some of it. So could be.
Although prior to Nardil I used to dream every night. Nardil definitely surpresses dreaming for me. And lowering it brings it back sometimes. But maybe I get more stressed when I lower it, too. Aaaaahhh! Chicken or egg? Chicken or egg??
:)
gg
Posted by Declan on June 5, 2005, at 19:00:20
In reply to Re: REM rebound? » SLS, posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2005, at 15:35:40
Are you lowering Nardil because of the edema and weight gain?
Posted by gardenergirl on June 6, 2005, at 0:52:51
In reply to Re: REM rebound?, posted by Declan on June 5, 2005, at 19:00:20
Yes. That's it exactly. Those side effects have finally become more bothersome to me than the positive effects of Nardil on my depression. If I can do as well on a lower dose and at least avoid the edema, that will be a huge plus.
gg
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