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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 2:47:19
Maybe 15% of the people posting here actually have a real psychiatric problem. Of that group maybe half will get relief. Everyone else is simply neurotic except that these days flatulence can be somehow interpreted as bipolar disorder or ADHD.
The rest are either a) prescription drug addicts who posibly don't even recognize it, or b)simply bored, unhappy, or otherwise normally upset with their lives and overmedicated by pompous uncaring *sshole doctors in a pharmaceutically driven society. The end result of which is a worsening of their sense of helplessness.
My advice (to myself especially)...find a hobby instead of obsessing about ineffectual drugs. You've tried it all! Stop wasting your time & money. Go rob a bank or something...at least you'll make the evening news...
Posted by partlycloudy on May 18, 2005, at 6:47:11
In reply to Not that it matters...Just my opinion, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 2:47:19
I'm not sure where you get your stats from, but wouldn't a neuorsis count as a psychological ailment?
pc
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 18, 2005, at 6:58:57
In reply to Re: Not that it matters...Just my opinion » Mr.Scott, posted by partlycloudy on May 18, 2005, at 6:47:11
Im pretty sure it would. i think addiction might as well??
Posted by Nickengland on May 18, 2005, at 7:20:07
In reply to Not that it matters...Just my opinion, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 2:47:19
However much truth your opinion holds.....its not very supportive to people trying to find relief from medications is it?
There seems to be alot of anger in what you say, especially calling 85% of people here neurotic.
A new hobby sounds a good idea.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on May 18, 2005, at 7:21:52
In reply to Re: Not that it matters...Just my opinion, posted by rainbowbrite on May 18, 2005, at 6:58:57
any one of us could sustain an interest in anything.
Posted by willyee on May 18, 2005, at 9:51:57
In reply to Not that it matters...Just my opinion, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 2:47:19
> Maybe 15% of the people posting here actually have a real psychiatric problem. Of that group maybe half will get relief. Everyone else is simply neurotic except that these days flatulence can be somehow interpreted as bipolar disorder or ADHD.
>
> The rest are either a) prescription drug addicts who posibly don't even recognize it, or b)simply bored, unhappy, or otherwise normally upset with their lives and overmedicated by pompous uncaring *sshole doctors in a pharmaceutically driven society. The end result of which is a worsening of their sense of helplessness.
>
> My advice (to myself especially)...find a hobby instead of obsessing about ineffectual drugs. You've tried it all! Stop wasting your time & money. Go rob a bank or something...at least you'll make the evening news...
>And where did it stem from,i doubt most people here were bored of downloading porn and decedied to read up on depression.I admit its a lot of talk about a lot of drugs,but then again the industry has the public believe most disorders will be eased by meds,so people already working with lessened brain funcitioning due to these very meds are now left with no other choice to ease their suffering than to do as the industry says and seek treatment,which is either talk therpay or medication more over than anything else.
What i find more horrific than all these people posting about meds is the fact that hardly any of them are getting relieaf,but i dont doubt for a minute that any of them are downplaying their pain,when u awake with a sick sinking feeling in ur gut on a saturday suny morning,when ur kids are happy and u cant share their joy,when good things happend and instead u cry,thus is depression and people seeking relief from that is only natural like a man on fire would never stopp looking for a lake to jump in to ease hhis pain,hell try every place he hears there is water and he wont stop cause the other option is to stay in pain.I think ur way off personaly,im not gonna judge ur situtation or health,but my own personal belief is to make a comment like that it would be impossable to have true clinical depression,at the very least i pity the lack of relief more so than the persistency of the search.
>
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 10:45:13
In reply to Re: Not that it matters...Just my opinion, posted by willyee on May 18, 2005, at 9:51:57
I know many doctors on a personal level (unfortunately many on a clinical one too). I get the impression from the ones I know on a personal level who don't know I'm insane, that on the whole they are not particularly empathetic about their psychiatric patients despite the airs we see in their office. They don't believe the hype about psych drugs half as much as we do either. They still remember Morphine was the treatment of choice at one time for melancholy, and that Qualude was only taken off the market in 1984. How far do you think we've come?
I think instead of obsessing over which combination of amphetamine, depakote, and lorazepam will 'finally' work for us we are better served on the whole by taking the little help we can get from these pills (and avoiding iatrogenic induced side effects including addiction) adding a good deal of acceptance and placing the real effort on trying to change ourselves and our environments where possible so that life works for us instead of Pfizer, and Lilly, and the Mercedes driving sociopath physician parading around as a caregiver. I think the majority here are basically unhappy and scared? Don't get me wrong...if you're suicidal or hearing voices go see a doctor!
I'm very frustrated.... I look around at so many people in pain and I wonder how people like us (often intelligent and able) dealt with this before this amazing exploitation by the pharmaceutical industry exploded. We should start a lobbying group or organize an international walk! (no..I'm not manic today) I know from working in the industry that in 2001 less than $400,000 was spent in total on trying to find a 'cure' for AIDS. The amount spent on simply marketing new 'treatments' however was in the billions. I can't say for sure right now, but I doubt depression is any different.
I just feel like we are victims because we are at the mercy of others with their own interests. If we had a centralized, unified, group we could force the hand in our favor. (And no...I don't need to be the leader. I'll pass out pamphlets for on foot for free.)
For those who can't take me seriously...I hope you at least got a laugh... I'll consider either a success.
Posted by SLS on May 18, 2005, at 11:22:15
In reply to Not that it matters...Just my opinion, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 2:47:19
Dear Scott,
I am very surprised by your post.
As was suggested by someone else, you are perhaps very angry about something. Since you seem to be in the mood to offer conjecture as fact, I suggest that you are angry because you are not getting anywhere in your treatment.
> Maybe 15% of the people posting here actually have a real psychiatric problem.
How did you come to this conclusion? How did you arrive at the 15% value?
> Of that group maybe half will get relief.
My guess is that most of the people posting here have been refractory to previous treatments. A success rate of 50% is remarkably high for such a population, and might be a demonstration of how well this board functions.
> Everyone else is simply neurotic
How do you define the word "neurotic".
> except that these days flatulence can be somehow interpreted as bipolar disorder or ADHD.
Are you frustrated with modern diagnostics?
Actually, GI disturbances are not an uncommon symptom of mood disorders.
Your point is acknowledged, though. There are often trends in clinical diagnoses by practicioners that seem almost like fads. Both bipolar disorder and ADHD have seemed to be popular diagnoses over the last 5 years or so. Are they over-diagnosed? I'm not sure, but it does seem that way sometimes.
> The rest are either
> a) prescription drug addicts who posibly don't even recognize it, or
What is a drug addict?
> b)simply bored
LOL Thanks for making me smile.
> unhappy, or otherwise normally upset with their lives
Obviously, these are people in pain who are looking for answers.
> and overmedicated by pompous uncaring *sshole doctors in a pharmaceutically driven society.
There is plenty of truth to this statement. However, I would be curious to know what percentage value you would place on those doctors who are *ssholes.
> The end result of which is a worsening of their sense of helplessness.
Yup. It does happen with. Thus, good doctors are invaluable, although not necessarily rare. I believe that there are plenty of good doctors out there to justify the existence of the field of psychiatry. In many ways, it is still in its infancy. I think we must take this into account before condemning it as being useless or worse.
> My advice (to myself especially)
I'm glad you addressed your suggestions to yourself instead of generalizing your plight to the masses.
> ...find a hobby instead of obsessing about ineffectual drugs.
What you call obsessing could easily be percieved as vigilence by others.
> You've tried it all!
I haven't.
> Stop wasting your time & money.
It is and investment for a better future.
> Go rob a bank or something...at least you'll make the evening news...
Is that what this post was all about - making news?
- Scott
Posted by Ritch on May 18, 2005, at 12:32:05
In reply to Re: Not that it matters...Just my opinion » willyee, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 10:45:13
I agree with many of the things that you say and feel similar frustration. It *is* depressing how much money is spent on drug marketing and pushing "pharmaceutical cosmetics" and not on the SCIENCE of solving the problems of mental illnesses. We ARE at the mercy of people whose interests are not our own. If they took the money they spent on TV ADS and put it into OBJECTIVE research we would all be a lot better off. I think we would all be a lot happier of the focus of activity shifted from BUSINESS to SCIENCE. I think RX drug ads should be banned. Perhaps the med obsessiveness you talk about would decline considerably and we could perhaps start to see a break in the media shitstorm.
Posted by ed_uk on May 18, 2005, at 12:40:30
In reply to Re: Not that it matters...Just my opinion » Mr.Scott, posted by Ritch on May 18, 2005, at 12:32:05
Hi Mitch!
>I think RX drug ads should be banned.
You should come to Europe- it's illegal here!
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by Paulbwell on May 18, 2005, at 13:01:47
In reply to Not that it matters...Just my opinion, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 2:47:19
> Maybe 15% of the people posting here actually have a real psychiatric problem. Of that group maybe half will get relief. Everyone else is simply neurotic except that these days flatulence can be somehow interpreted as bipolar disorder or ADHD.
>
> The rest are either a) prescription drug addicts who posibly don't even recognize it, or b)simply bored, unhappy, or otherwise normally upset with their lives and overmedicated by pompous uncaring *sshole doctors in a pharmaceutically driven society. The end result of which is a worsening of their sense of helplessness.
>
> My advice (to myself especially)...find a hobby instead of obsessing about ineffectual drugs. You've tried it all! Stop wasting your time & money. Go rob a bank or something...at least you'll make the evening news...
>
>You make some valid, common sence points. There are too many folks taking to many pills, often pushed on them by Docs with vested interests, whether or not 'the patient' is the top priority.
Folks here often seem to be too eager to try anything new--look at all the lunestra posts, with often little reguard for unforseen concequences.
People would do well to resist being the early guinea pigs, and remember the fact that most meds are poisons in quantitative doses.
Posted by SLS on May 18, 2005, at 16:15:51
In reply to Mr Scott » Mr.Scott, posted by Paulbwell on May 18, 2005, at 13:01:47
> Folks here often seem to be too eager to try anything new--
I would drink a glass of elephant urine t.i.d. if it would bring me into remission. That would be new. Of course, I would prefer to see how others do with it first before I take the plunge.
Eager?
Not really.
However, I am desperate, and since "old" does not work, that leaves me with "new". Understand?
- Scott
Posted by lara53 on May 18, 2005, at 18:21:15
In reply to Re: Mr Scott » Paulbwell, posted by SLS on May 18, 2005, at 16:15:51
Posted by Phillipa on May 18, 2005, at 18:44:26
In reply to Re: Mr Scott » Paulbwell, posted by SLS on May 18, 2005, at 16:15:51
I guess that's why I haven't used the vouchers for the free lunesta pills yet. i'm still waiting. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 20:19:24
In reply to Re: Not that it matters...Just my opinion » Mr.Scott, posted by SLS on May 18, 2005, at 11:22:15
Although it's unclear from your post exactly how, I am sorry if I offended you. My frustration anyway... is hopefully clear by now.
Too much time getting nowhere for me and a lot of other people (that I bet I'd actually really like if I could interact with them beyond this keyboard). Meanwhile as we obsess over pills...Some jerk be it a physician, a drug company exec, or an insurance company beaurocrat, either makes a decision that affects our lives or directly profits from our misery offering little return.
I wish that myself and my fellows (you all) were more free to participate in life and less hampered by ill moods and then further distracted by having to do so much of our own research. There's nothing wrong with trying to find help for a problem...in fact you're foolish not too. And being an informed consumer is also a good thing. But I've spent a lot of money and a lot of time educating physicians about theories. I've held out hope for a long time that the answer would come in a pill. Some help perhaps...The answer certainly not in this lifetime. It simply will not. I don't care anymore. I'm going on stark raving mad or not. Scared or depressed who cares. I'm getting mine... starting today. I'm no longer a victim of anything except the thoughts and preocupations I allow myself to induldge.
Posted by Phillipa on May 18, 2005, at 20:25:18
In reply to Re: Not that it matters...Just my opinion » SLS, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 20:19:24
I'm so glad we are so kind to each other on this Board and solve our own problems for the most part. I'm so glad we don't pick apart each others posts and then head to Admin to solve our problems. And Mr. Scott what type of job do you have. You have me curious. You can Babblemail me if you don't want it public. I'll respect your privacy. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by 4WD on May 18, 2005, at 21:59:26
In reply to Re: Mr Scott » Paulbwell, posted by SLS on May 18, 2005, at 16:15:51
> > Folks here often seem to be too eager to try anything new--
>
> I would drink a glass of elephant urine t.i.d. if it would bring me into remission. That would be new. Of course, I would prefer to see how others do with it first before I take the plunge.
>
> Eager?
>
> Not really.
>
> However, I am desperate, and since "old" does not work, that leaves me with "new". Understand?
>
>
> - Scott
>Scott,
Please bring on the elephant urine. I will be glad to volunteer to be the first to try it if you think it might work.
Marsha
Posted by Phillipa on May 18, 2005, at 22:58:16
In reply to Re: Mr Scott » SLS, posted by 4WD on May 18, 2005, at 21:59:26
Somehow I don't think I could drink it! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Paulbwell on May 19, 2005, at 4:02:33
In reply to Re: Mr Scott » Paulbwell, posted by SLS on May 18, 2005, at 16:15:51
> > Folks here often seem to be too eager to try anything new--
>
> "Of course, I would prefer to see how others do with it first before I take the plunge."That was my point,
and something i would take comfort in, having feedback first, if the situation wasn't critical of course.
Posted by Nickengland on May 19, 2005, at 8:41:01
In reply to Re: Not that it matters...Just my opinion » SLS, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 20:19:24
Hello there,
From reading the further 2 posts you write I can now see and understand your frustrations.
I think some people maybe got slightly offended by your first post with the wording that you came across as you was judging the majority of the board by calling them *Neurotics* and *prscriptions drug addicts* etc.. Just seemed a little offensive you know? lol
Anyway after further reading of your other posts I can relate to your frustrations.
Here in england we don't have any adverts for prescription drugs and there isn't this "big bussiness push from the Pharmaceutical companies and hard seeling which obviously occurs in the states. Dont get me wrong though, I'm not putting america down or anything like that, as I much prefer your counrty to the uk lol. Also here the trend seems to be to not push a diagnosis of serious mental illness such as bipolar and ADD rather the oppisite, as in the states where there the trend maybe over-diagnose such illness. Either way the true care of the patient is not in the best interests with regards to proper treatment and best possible outcomes.
I notice when people from America talk about these big drug companies, sales reps and psychaitrists giving patients samples of drugs that have been given to them by the reps to promote their "product" that feels me with disgust. Its like the equivilent of a drug dealer giving samples of his new "stuff" to people. It doesn't seem quite right to me.
I've seen a Paxil advert which you have too. I remember it showed someone feeling very shy etc..then they take a paxil....and :D their all happy and smiling - this is the like the people happy in the coco-cola adverts?!...Theres something seriously not right about advertising psychiatric drugs, they kinda over-steped the mark. I guess most people take them with a pinch of salt but still they should not be shown in the public media like that as its drives a culture to believe that the answer for all problems is a *pill*, what next? cancer treatments having chemo - then they use the same coco-cola people dancing and being happy on a beach somewhere?!
Somewhere along the line things have got carried away with big brand name drugs and profits, forgetting about the actual illness themselves. People treat these drugs like a fashion acessory, because of the way the drugs seemed to be promoted just like the same way other products are such as proper "fashion acessorys" i.e brand clothes!
The drug companies seem to have manipulated things in such a way that people feel they can take these tablets and actually, if they take enough of a "combo" or whatever of the best brand they can find an actual "cure" - far from the truth as their is no cure.
Mental illness is the same all around the world for people of all cultures and races. The treatment is not. - Why?..because to be perfectly honest they don't understand these illness's, they don't know enough about them to really "cure" them just yet.
35 years ago, my mother was diagnosed with manic depression. The treatment = was 6 months in a mental hosptial and electirc shock treatment. When she was realsed she was given some valium for a few weeks, that was it. 1 year later she had a relapes of her original symtoms - the treatment exactly the same, 6 months hosptial and ECT, valium for afew weeks on release etc..
She then remained well for roughly a further 20 years..then a relapes of her original symtoms she had previously. The treatment = 6 weeks in hospital and was given lithuim. 16 years later she is still on the lithium and all is well.
So 6 months hospitalision and ECT, 35 years later "6 weeks hosptial" and lithium.
200 years ago she would have been locked up with chains to her hands and feet and left for dead - thats a fact.Progress is being made slowly. I inherited her illness and had the exact same symtoms at more a less the same age she did. This shows shows something genetic.
None of the medications or treatments today could have prevented me becoming ill. We are now in a time where theres alot of choice for various drug treatments. Is this a good thing?..in some ways yes, as people can find drugs which have less side-effects and perhaps more symtom control - That is the best you can achive! The least side effects and the most symtom control and more importantly using the LEAST drugs. As much as 1 drug relieves symtoms by working on your mental illness it also plays around with alot of other chemistry in your body and this is not good.
The frustration is no one can find a cure yet no matter how many "combos" or new drugs they take. In years to come this will improve, maybe not in our life time will there be a cure, in the same way the people with AIDS might not have a cure.
All I would say that some people on here get carried away into thinking they need to take lots of drugs, when really they dont need to, there just making bigger profits for the drug companies and tricking themselves into thinking they have multiple diagnosis. In time this kind of treatment and wacky thinking will seem as "out-of-touch" as people being locked up and left to die 200 years ago.
In the mean time I hope people can find the most amount of symtom relief, with the least amount of drugs ~ thats the best you can hope for in todays world.
Posted by SLS on May 19, 2005, at 8:47:37
In reply to Re: Not that it matters...Just my opinion » SLS, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 20:19:24
> Although it's unclear from your post exactly how, I am sorry if I offended you.
I didn't feel personally offended by your post as it wasn't directed at me as an individual. However, I did find your post to be generally offensive in that it invalidated my thoughts and behaviors, and those of at least 85% of the other people posting here whom you deem as simply "neurotic" and without a true mental illness. I might add that, to the extent to which the old term "neurosis" might still exist in the vocabulary of those people whom were educated before the publication of the DSM III, I would think that any of these people might be offended as well.
> My frustration anyway... is hopefully clear by now.
Quite.
> Meanwhile as we obsess over pills...
There's that word again - "obsess". I always get the sense that this word is used in a slightly negative or pejorative manner. For me, I find that I am "focused" on my treatment and "vigilent" to achieve my goal of mental health. My life depends on this "obsession".
> Some jerk be it a physician, a drug company exec, or an insurance company beaurocrat, either makes a decision that affects our lives or directly profits from our misery offering little return.
Yes. However, I am still optimistic that much of the research being conducted in neuroscience and mental illness is still being supported by entities not so biased by capitalism. Unfortunately, not even the NIH has been immune from the evolution of conflicts of interest. Currently, this is being remediated by the setting of new policies. It would be great if it could be ascertained what percentage of studies conducted by universities are funded by or overseen by pharmaceutical companies. I really don't know. Nevertheless, I remain without cynicism and I believe that there are really smart people out there doing very smart things for reasons that are genuinely altruistic.
> I wish that myself and my fellows (you all) were more free to participate in life and less hampered by ill moods
> and then further distracted by having to do so much of our own research.
Unfortunately, it seems that your two wishes are mutually inclusive for most of the people here. You don't get to #1 without first accomplishing #2.
> There's nothing wrong with trying to find help for a problem...in fact you're foolish not too. And being an informed consumer is also a good thing.
You apparantly contradict yourself here and are forced to conclude that everyone's "obsessiveness" over pills is actually the playing of an active role in securing one's health and making life worth living.
Scott, I hope you reevaluate your alternatives once your level of anger and frustration abate. Perhaps this is a good time for you to be without medication and assess your need for it. Perhaps not. However, there is nothing wrong with seeking answers while indulging in life along the way.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on May 19, 2005, at 8:50:45
In reply to Mr Scott, posted by Nickengland on May 19, 2005, at 8:41:01
Hi Nick!
That was an interesting and thoughtful post :-)
Ed.
Posted by Nickengland on May 19, 2005, at 9:01:53
In reply to Re: Mr Scott » Nickengland, posted by ed_uk on May 19, 2005, at 8:50:45
Thanks Ed : )
As you can see I have way too much time on my hands to be writing posts that long LOL
Posted by MidnightBlue on May 19, 2005, at 11:13:27
In reply to Mr Scott, posted by Nickengland on May 19, 2005, at 8:41:01
I would just like to comment. My co-pay in the US is as much as $45 per drug per month. You can easily see where taking 3-4 drugs for a psych problem can add up quickly. This on top of other meds I need for other problems and there is NO LIMIT to the amount you must pay per month on co-pays. I really need to find one or two drugs that will help substantially.
And regarding drug ads in US. We have them for cancer treatment, too. Especially ones to boost your red cell count and energy when you are on chemo.
I ignore them ALL.
MidnightBlue
Posted by Ritch on May 19, 2005, at 12:05:56
In reply to Mr Scott, posted by Nickengland on May 19, 2005, at 8:41:01
>...In the mean time I hope people can find the most amount of symtom relief, with the least amount of drugs ~ thats the best you can hope for in todays world.
Nick, thanks for that post. It reflected how I feel about the whole thing nearly exactly or "spot-on" as I do. My grandmother was in hospital for ECT (for a few months in the '60's), got a family history too.
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