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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tepiaca on May 7, 2005, at 16:14:52
Look at this guys , this happened yesterday. It is a lawsuit against Glaxo , due to a concealed Paxil information.
Posted by mike13 on May 7, 2005, at 16:46:04
In reply to Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL, posted by Tepiaca on May 7, 2005, at 16:14:52
Paxil pretty much ruined my life, but the problems I experienced on it aren't really documented, as in I have really only come across a select number of people who have experienced the symptoms I am enduring, i'd really like to know "what" the concealed info was, it doesen't specify it in the article.. if it was about the drug inducing suicide thoughts then it's nothing new.
Posted by mike13 on May 7, 2005, at 16:46:57
In reply to Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL, posted by Tepiaca on May 7, 2005, at 16:14:52
never mind, somehow I missed it, it was suicidal thoughts..
Posted by linkadge on May 7, 2005, at 16:49:11
In reply to Re: Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL, posted by mike13 on May 7, 2005, at 16:46:57
What sorts of side effects did you have mike ?
celexa pretty much ruined my life.**If I had just known then what I know NOW !!**
I could have done this the right way.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 7, 2005, at 16:58:40
In reply to Re: Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL, posted by linkadge on May 7, 2005, at 16:49:11
A quote from www.biopsychiatry.com:
"Faith in the integrity of biological psychiatry would be greater if the strongest predictive factor in the outcome of any published clinical trial wasn't the identity of the funding body."
I just don't want to turn into my mother, there's not much left to her after 30 years of being prescribed what the new whim of the day was.
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 7, 2005, at 17:09:05
In reply to Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL, posted by Tepiaca on May 7, 2005, at 16:14:52
>
> Look at this guys , this happened yesterday. It is a lawsuit against Glaxo , due to a concealed Paxil information.
>
> http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/jun/jun2b_04.htmlSorry, but that lawsuit is almost a year old. It was settled mere weeks after it was instigated, with very minor financial cost. Frankly, I think it was grandstanding by the NY AG.
The upshot of it is that all clinical trial data will be available online.
I say it's grandstanding because Spitzer was well aware the data was going to go online, before the suit was filed.
Just my opinion.
Lar
Posted by linkadge on May 7, 2005, at 18:06:54
In reply to Re: Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL » Tepiaca, posted by Larry Hoover on May 7, 2005, at 17:09:05
What is your general feeling on the ssri suicide connection, and about the safety and efficacy of SSRI's in general ?
In my situation, SSRi's definately increased the amount of time I spent thinking about suicide, but In some ways I think this may be related to their efficacy. The time spent thinking about suicide may represent the shift from outward thinking to inward thinking. SSRI's are notorious for their ability to shift the ballance of power by enhancing inward almost psychadellic thinking.
Quite too often however, I think they initiate a profound sence of understanding of ones personal position. On SSRI's suicide just seemed incredably rational since I could see much more clearly just how my situation was crappy.
Linkadge
Posted by Tepiaca on May 7, 2005, at 18:20:39
In reply to Re: Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL » Tepiaca, posted by Larry Hoover on May 7, 2005, at 17:09:05
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2005, at 18:48:22
In reply to Larry, how do you feel about....., posted by linkadge on May 7, 2005, at 18:06:54
The first time I took paxil l0mg it really worked in conjunture with xanax. But then again maybe I wasn't absorbing the med properly as i also drank around 5 beers nightly with it after work. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by mike13 on May 7, 2005, at 19:55:18
In reply to Re: Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL, posted by linkadge on May 7, 2005, at 16:49:11
> What sorts of side effects did you have mike ?
> celexa pretty much ruined my life.
>
> **
All I know is that ever since starting Paxil I have never felt the same, even off it I don't feel right, in fact I feel even worse off it. IM NOT DEPRESSED, it's just that the side effects I experience on it our exacerbated off it..The side effects are all mental, it feels like I lost my personality and identity, I feel dull, I don't even know what I believe in anymore, I can't have conversations any more, because im just NOONE, it's really hard to articulate.
a bunch of other cognitive problems also, SLOW THINKING , (sucks, you don't know how much.. when all your thoughts our slowened by about 10 seconds) memory , problem solving issues.trouble expressing myself.clumsy in conversations I really don't even know whats wrong with me, I just don't feel right..
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2005, at 20:35:03
In reply to Re: Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL, posted by mike13 on May 7, 2005, at 19:55:18
Now you've given me something to think about. After paxil the first time no Ad has worked for me. It's not that I feel depressed. Just bored, afraid, helpless wierd. Like I'm just starting this business with my husband. When I got my first check my attitude is "big deal". And when I continue to enroll new customers it's like emotionaless. No feeling. Just okay what else is new. I don't get it. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on May 7, 2005, at 21:13:59
In reply to Re: Lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline due to PAXIL » mike13, posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2005, at 20:35:03
It is located near the bottom of the list.
Thanks
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 7, 2005, at 22:00:57
In reply to Larry, how do you feel about....., posted by linkadge on May 7, 2005, at 18:06:54
> What is your general feeling on the ssri suicide connection, and about the safety and efficacy of SSRI's in general ?
I've reviewed a number of the clinical trials that are now online (the complete raw data), and all available reviews done by the FDA, the MHRA (British equivalent), the EMEA (EU agency), and numerous meta-analyses of published trials.
Virtually every headline I've ever read about increased suicide risk has not been supported by the data (i.e. was hyperbole or false), or was a misquotion or misreporting or misinterpretation of regulatory guidance.
If you'd like to read one analysis I did, you could go to: http://tinyurl.com/98odq
I also posted the actual case descriptions, if you're interested: http://tinyurl.com/ajgob
Lots more in that thread.I also wrote a review of adolescent suicide findings last September: http://tinyurl.com/crr2c
That said, there *is* a treatment-emergent increased likelihood of suicidal ideation, self-harm, and (perhaps) suicide completion with SSRIs. In broad strokes, suicidality risk on SSRIs is roughly double the risk of remaining untreated, but only during the first weeks, or at dose increases. It does not differ, though, from the increased risk of suicide seen with tricyclics. Nor does it differ from the increased risk seen with MAOIs. All known antidepressants increase these risks. It is not a novel finding, applying only to SSRIs.
In any case, this is a very short term phenomenon. Moreover, the actual baseline (untreated) risk of suicical acts is very low during this brief period, so doubling a very small number does not make the risk unmanageable. I emphasize that I place the responsibility on medical management. There is nothing novel about increased suicidality on SSRIs. All pharmacological treatments carry this risk, and of a similar (if not greater) magnitude to that of SSRIs.
By about the 3rd month of treatment, there is a robust and virtually definitive reduction in suicidality, compared to baseline (untreated).
I find it very hard to ignore compelling real-life forensic analysis like the following, just published:
Acta Psychiatr Scand. 2005 Apr;111(4):286-90.
Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor antidepressants and the risk of suicide: a controlled forensic database study of 14,857 suicides.Isacsson G, Holmgren P, Ahlner J.
Neurotec, Division of Psychiatry, Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, Sweden. goran.isacsson@neurotec.ki.se
OBJECTIVE: To test the hypothesis that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants may have a suicide emergent effect, particularly in children and adolescents. METHOD: Detections of different antidepressants in the forensic toxicological screening of 14 857 suicides were compared with those in 26,422 cases of deaths by accident or natural causes in Sweden 1992-2000. RESULTS: There were 3411 detections of antidepressants in the suicides and 1538 in the controls. SSRIs had lower odds ratios than the other antidepressants. In the 52 suicides under 15 years, no SSRIs were detected. In 15-19-year age group, SSRIs had lower relative risk in suicides compared with non-SSRIs. CONCLUSION: The hypothesis that treatment of depressed individuals with SSRIs leads to an increased risk of suicide was not supported by this analysis of the total suicidal outcome of the nationwide use of SSRIs in Sweden over a period of 9 years, either in adults or in children or adolescents.
Since the advent of SSRI meds, suicide rates are falling. However, there are major confounders to consider. Culturally, people are talking about mood disorders and treatments and self-harm much more now, than in the past. Are outreach programs responsible for the decrease in rates? Are increased reports of adverse events due to more generally open discussion, and reduction of stigma, and increased tendency to blame those greedy blood-sucking wealthy multinational drug companies?I do not mean to sound like I am dismissive or trivializing the real suffering some people experience from medication. In fact, I am a golden example of that. Fluvoxamine (Luvox) sent me into psychotic mixed-state mania. Nefazodone (Serzone) nearly killed me, by shutting down my liver. Lithium made me profoundly suicidal. My recent trial of gabapentin (Neurontin) has been extremely draining.
In all those earlier cases, though, the adverse effects were poorly managed from a medical perspective. I did not get the close and attentive medical care I needed during those earlier incidents, nor did I have the wisdom to know to seek that care. I do not blame the drugs.
These are not unmanageable risks. These are not unmanageable adverse effects. These are powerful drugs than need to managed responsibly.
That's how I feel about....
Lar
Posted by linkadge on May 7, 2005, at 22:11:13
In reply to Re: Larry, how do you feel about..... » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on May 7, 2005, at 22:00:57
I've only personally known 3 people who have committed suicide, and all of them were on paxil.
Paxil made me more suicidal, same with celexa. Zoloft, and prozac seemed neutral.
For me, apathy and suicidiality go hand in hand.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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