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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8576 to 8600 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2005, at 19:32:53
In reply to Re: new post to effexor.......... » Phillipa, posted by Corafree on May 3, 2005, at 18:06:50
Corafree, do you think it has anything to do with what I just posted? I know you know who I mean. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Corafree on May 3, 2005, at 19:55:28
In reply to Re: new post to effexor.........., posted by alexanderbb on May 3, 2005, at 18:14:10
I may be wrong, but I think there was some drug bashing getting out of hand here. Some may have been on target. There was concern about long term effects after discontinuing it. I had to keep increasing Effexor-XR for it to be effective and also had to have it adjusted according to my metabolism, being that it is 'supposed' to be a one-a-day pills; it wasn't for me. I did have breakthrough anxiety and high panic attack at a high dose of Effexor-XR, combined with a rotation of Klonopin and Xanax. I had to be hospitalized. It was there that I chose to discontinue Effexor-XR. I am now on mood stabilizers and a benzodiazepine for anxiety. My emotions are more clear ... have to deal with more sadness and, hopefully, more happiness. I was beginning to feel a 'zombieness' on the AD. Who knows if this regimen is right on?! Lately I have lost control of emotions a couple times and that has some of my closest confidantes upset with me. I have wondered now if this is the right path. Most important - relationship with psychiatrist - I don't have one, a relationship that is. Just taking it day at a time. Have some physical issues I've been trying to attend to, so have not pursued change of psychiatrists. Think I need to drop off this post since I no longer take Effexor-XR. cf
Posted by absolute on May 3, 2005, at 23:43:38
In reply to Effexor XR: Can ALCOHOLISM be a side effect?, posted by Wendigo on May 2, 2005, at 16:21:59
Hi, yes I've noticed the same thing. I've been drinking more since taking Effexor XR. This was never a problem when I was on Wellbutrin or when not taking anything at all.
The Effexor seems to counteract the negative effects of alcohol- this is not really a good thing. Good to hear someone else has experienced this also. I've tapered down to the lowest dose, 37.5mg/day, and it seems to have gotten better.
Good luck
> Hello all. I've taken Effexor XR for about a year (150 mg) and wondered if any of you noticed certain [for lack of better word] alcoholic tendencies while taking it; I mean, before taking antidepressants I was an occasional drinker, at most a weekend drinker (3-4 drinks [wine/beer]). Although I enjoyed drinking, and had a fairly high tolerance for alcohol, I never considered myself an alcoholic or someone with a "drinking habit" or problem. I am, however, a recovering anorexic/bulimic (no episodes in 8 years); I wonder if I have traded one disorder for another, or if taking Effexor (for depression, social anxiety) has anything at all to do with my recent excessive alcohol consumption. I know it could be coincidental, but I also know that my tolerance (without medication fairly high) is even greater while on Effexor (which I assumed was due to the antidepressant counteracting the depressant effects of alcohol). I find myself drinking more to achieve any effect (I'm aware that this could also indicate addiction). I've never been truly suicidal, but my recent lack of control with alcohol has caused great stress in my marriage--my lying and deceit (about purchase/consumption of alcohol) and my husband's accusations, spying/snooping (can't really blame him, although he is a rather controlling/paternal person) have left me with little sense of self...I feel irresponsible for having had kids, etc. Any insights? I only wonder whether my increased desire to drink has anything to do with the Effexor because while postpartum several years ago I took Prozac, and experienced a similar urge to drink, and to drink greater quantities, than when taking no medication.
> I've read the warnings about drinking alcohol while taking antidepressants, which state that the alcohol increases drowsiness, dizziness, and that the antidepressant will intensify the effects of alcohol, but this doesn't seem to be the case for me.
> I don't want to become an alcoholic, and have begun gradually to decrease my dosage of Effexor to see the effect on my urge to drink.
>
> Sorry if this is repetitive; I posted a similar message elsewhere in psycho-babble (I'm new to this).
Posted by fuji on May 4, 2005, at 7:44:54
In reply to Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by absolute on May 3, 2005, at 23:43:38
Curious about this. Are you saying you have an increased urge to drink, or when you drink you have the compulstion to continue drinking or a combination of both. I was on effexor 300 mg for couple of years and I am sober from alcohol for over 20 years. i work in the drug & alcohol treatment field so this is interesting to me. I recently switched to Cymbalta and find that I have increased not necessarily my appetite, but my urge to eat and feel completely out of control with it (kind of like when you can't stop drinking or when you need to drink.)
fuji
Posted by Elroy on May 4, 2005, at 19:28:02
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by fuji on May 4, 2005, at 7:44:54
Some interesting info:
QUOTE: In his book, "Talking Back to Prozac" Peter Breggin, MD, says, "At my request, Bonnie Leitsch, then director of the national Prozac Survivors Support Group, summarized all the reports coming into the organization during 1991 & 1992. The information covered 288 individuals who had adverse reactions to Prozac during those two years." It continues, " The vast majority were related to violence against self or others (pages 138 & 139)." The book continues, " there were 133 cases of crime and violence, including 14 murders ( 6 by car), 39 violent actions (8 in cars), 54 violent preoccupations (5 in cars), " etc. .. Breggin goes on... "There were 14 cases of Alcohol abuse developing or worsening on Prozac... (The Physicians Desk Reference lists "alcohol craving" as an infrequent, but not rare side effect, for Paxil)... END QUOTE
http://www.betterway2health.com/DA-Violence.htm
QUOTE: PROZAC INCREASES CORTISOL OUTPUT 2-3 TIMES... DID YOU KNOW: Any anti-depressant drug (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Lovan, Luvox, and more) contain as their chief ingredients MERCURY and CHLORINE! (Mercury is connected to Alzheimer's.)... If you take 1-1/2 pills of Prozac just ONE (1) time (never before and never again), you'll double your cortisol levels. To exercise 3 times a day is 8 times more effective than anti-depressants. A sugar pill is 20 times more effective than (many) anti-depressants. END QUOTE
Excellent article on effects of SSRIs and other anti-depressants in raising cortisol levels, and the problems that can be generated by elevated cortisol levels (including the infamous weight gain problems)
http://www.healinghorsesnaturally.com/p_cortisol.htmSome other links:
http://health-essentials.info/science/health-issues/ssri01.html
Just something to think about....
Posted by notfeelingthebest on May 4, 2005, at 22:16:41
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect?? » fuji, posted by Elroy on May 4, 2005, at 19:28:02
I wouldn't discount it entirely. I every now and then get these never-before-had compulsions to consume a massive bag of potatoe chips, a few chocolate bars, a few packs of pretzels, etc... and then im like "what the hell?"
Nonetheless, I'm skeptical about people jumping to conclusions about prozac being responsible for murders, suicides, etc. I think people start taking SSRIs with absurdly high expectations, and then they go through that fake "its working! its working!" period before they realize that nothing is happening.
The ensuing breakdowns, suicides, etc. I suspect have more to do with dashed hopes and desperation than seratonin mania.
We have to accept that the pdoc patient society is full of whingers, attention seakers, and people constantly looking for someone to blame for the cards they've been dealt.
That said, is that really true about cortisol?
Posted by Corafree on May 4, 2005, at 22:22:39
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by notfeelingthebest on May 4, 2005, at 22:16:41
'I wouldn't discount it entirely. I every now and then get these never-before-had compulsions to consume a massive bag of potatoe chips, a few chocolate bars, a few packs of pretzels, etc... and then im like "what the hell?"'
Me Too, Big Time! It is awful to eat such junk, but it's like an addiction, a closet addiction. I wish this were looked at more closely as a big problem. I feel this should be listed among bad side effects.
bestwishes cf
Posted by Elroy on May 5, 2005, at 6:09:09
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by notfeelingthebest on May 4, 2005, at 22:16:41
Yes, it is true about the cortisol. That part has been backed up by numerous studies. After all it is easy to measure cortisol excretions, either hourly by serum tests or daily output through 24-hour UFC.
A lot of people don't realize it but excessive cortisol initially gives one a "euphoric effect" (very frequently experienced by Cushing's patients when their cortisol first climbs into the high ranges). Unfortunately though it doesn't last that long and then elevated cortisol begins doing its insidious "dirty work".
Is that how many of the SSRIs actually "work", possibly creating a "feel good" atmosphere through the boosting of the cortisol (boosting it into abnormally elevated levels), but then as the "euphoric effect" wears off, it appears that the medication "isn't working anymore"???
QUOTE: Excess Cortisol can:
- Increase blood sugar which in turn stimulates the production of excess insulin (excess insulin leads to body cell destruction and excess fat storage)
- Depress immune function, leading to frequent or prolonged sickness
- Cause loss of muscle mass
- Decrease bone density
- Osteoporosis
- Impair wound healing
- Slow thyroid function
- Increase and prolong appetite
- Encourage fat storage in the abdomen that may be associated with serious chronic health concerns
- Interfere with reproductive function
- Create feelings of anxiety
- Encourage depression
- Promote tumour growth
- Foster feelings of anger and frustration
Cortisol is known as the "death hormone". It prepares our body to die. While cortisol increases with age, growth hormones decrease, which causes us to age.
END QUOTEQUOTE: Cortisol activates fat-storage enzymes in cells. Researchers at the Sahlgren's Hospital in Sweden identified a direct link between cortisol levels and midsection obesity. The higher the cortisol level, the greater the fat accumulation and waist-to-hip ratio. According to National Institutes of Health scientists, "Fat storage is enhanced by an increase in activity of LPL, the activity of which is stimulated by prolonged exposure to high tissue levels of cortisol in combination with insulin."
Marin P, Cortisol secretion in relation to body fat distribution in obese premenopausal women. Metabolism. 1992 Aug;41(8):882-6 - Peeke PM, Chrousos GP. Hypercortisolism and obesity. Ann NY Acad Sci. 1995 Dec 29;771:665-76.
END QUOTEQUOTE: Cortisol & Impaired Memory
Researchers at the Bowman Gray School of Medicine of Wake Forest University in North Carolina validated the ability of cortisol on impairing memory and damaging brain cells.
University of Wisconsin researchers also linked stress-induced excess cortisol to brain damage.
They reviewed literature in which subjects with extremely high cortisol levels later developed psychiatric disorders and cerebral cortical atrophy observed in CT scans. - Kerr DS chronic stress-induced acceleration of electrophysiologic and morphometric biomarkers of hippocampal aging. J Neurosci. 1991 May;11(5):1316-24.
Jensen, Genefke, Hyldebrandt, Pedersen, Petersen and Weile, 1982. Uno H et al. Neurotoxicity of glucocorticoids in the primate brain. Horm Behav. 1994 Dec; 28(4):336-48.
END QUOTEQUOTE: Cortisol & SSRIs
Studies at the University of Colorado and Greenslopes Private Hospital in Brisbane, Australia, showed that Prozac (fluoxetine) increases both cortisol and ACTH levels. Research at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, Tennessee, also documented the cortisol-boosting effects of Prozac. - Laudenslager ML, Clarke AS. Antidepressant treatment during social challenge prior to 1 year of age affects immune and endocrine responses in adult macaques. Psychiatry Res. 2000 Jul 24;95(1):25-34.
Torpy DJ et al. Diurnal effects of fluoxetine and naloxone on the human hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol. 1997 June; 24 (6):421-3
Meltzer H et al. Fluoxetine, but not tricyclic antidepressants, potentiates the 5-hydroxytryptophan-mediated increase in plasma cortisol and prolactin secretion in subjects with major depression or with obsessive compulsive disorder. Neuropsychopharmacology. 1997 Jul; 17(1):1-11. - PROZAC INCREASES CORTISOL OUTPUT 2-3 TIMES… DID YOU KNOW:
If you take 1-1/2 pills of Prozac just ONE (1) time (never before and never again), it's possible you'll double your cortisol levels. END QUOTESo it could very well be that the documented problems with Prozac, Paxil, etc., etc. have had to do not only with increasing serotonin levels in people who really don't need it (after all there's something like four major brain neurotransmitters, and what if your problem isn't low serotonin, in fact what if you have normal or even high serotonin and are deficient in something else?), but also in conjunction with the SSRI greatly elevating the cortisol levels? In one patient the elevation might be just enough to account for some serious weight gain and high blood pressure, but in another individdual the cortisol increase might be off the chart and account for serious psychological disordes, etc....
Then again, those are just my thoughts based on the quoted RESEARCH STUDIES....
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Posted by Wendigo on May 5, 2005, at 7:12:57
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by Corafree on May 4, 2005, at 22:22:39
Thank you, thank you for the responses to my alcoholism worries...I was certain that at least someone would respond, "Get to an AA meeting, stat!" All the "Are you an alcoholic?" quizzes I've found and taken on the internet confirm that I am indeed an alcoholic, but then (according to the quizzes) so is anyone who has ever felt remorse after drinking, has drunk more than they meant to, or has drunk as an attempt to relax...I don't doubt that I could easily slip into alcoholism without the Effexor side effect, but certainly with it I've shown a scary lack of control. Scary because it doesn't seem to scare me, just my husband. I'm striving for moderation, and it's absurd that after six beers (albeit "light/lo-carb") I'm thinking, hey, this is moderate drinking...I barely have a buzz.
Anyway, wanted to say I appreciate the nonjudgmental responses, even from those who are recovering alcoholics themselves celebrating x number of years' sobriety. I've been through the parallel 12-step program for eating disorders, beating my head against the wall, working steps and surrendering over and over to a higher power, but I have to say that the only thing that broke a ten-year cycle of binge/purge hell for me (and I did see a cognitive therapist at some point) was Effexor XR (75 mg). That was the first time I ever took anything for depression (as soon as I weaned my 11-month-old daughter from nursing). I also began taking oral contraceptives, which probably also helped in the hormone department. After some time I stopped taking Effexor to see how I'd do because we'd moved and I wasn't looking forward to finding another doctor...I was ok for a while but began feeling anxious about my eating and finally found a new doctor and explained my history and requested a prescription for an antidepressant. This time I asked to try Prozac, because I'd read about its efficacy with bulimics. I took it for about six months without problems, then decided to stop it and the birth control during Lent (a "born again" Catholic, you could say, although my spiritual walk/stumble is another story). I became pregnant with my son, found an ob/gyn and explained my history, but didn't get back on anything until my 6th month of pregnancy, when I panicked about my eating again. In case I didn't emphasize it before, the postpartum 11 months after my daughter was born (during which time I nursed her, without any medication) was a nightmarish. I hate that her first months are tainted in memory because of my illness but it's true; I was completely out of control and completely miserable. I can't imagine the quality of my breast milk because I would basically starve myself for days at a time and then binge, then starve and binge, also exercising like a madman. I only wish I had tried an antidepressant sooner, but that's hindsight. Anyway, I told my doctor I couldn't do that again, that I wanted to prepare in advance for the postpartum phase with my second child, so I began taking the Prozac during the six month of pregnancy and continued throughout postpartum. I can't remember the dosage, but I took it for about a year total, and that's when I first noticed the alcohol cravings/lessened alcohol effect. I was concerned because I was still nursing, but told myself it was okay if I drank a bit after I fed my son for the night... I stopped the Prozac and took nothing for a while, during which time I know I felt less of a desire to drink and consumed much less when I did drink.I began taking Effexor again because I had become more reclusive and depressed; didn't want it to adversely affect my kids (avoiding playdates, "fun" social activities). I also noticed some eating anxiety again and anytime that monster rears its head I'll do whatever necessary to knock it back down. I'd rather take Effexor for the rest of my life and wrestle with potential alcoholism than be consumed by the bulimia/bulimarexia again, but that's just me. I'm currently down to 75 mg (down from 150), and it seems better right now. I noticed that if I could just refrain from alcohol for about two or three days after drinking, it didn't seem to be so important to me, but during the first day or two I would feel like, oh no, I'm a total alcoholic, which means I should completely abstain from alcohol for the rest of my life or else who knows what could develop...I'm kidding myself if I think I can drink in moderation, etc. and that kind of thinking really depresses me because I don't WANT to give up the pleasure or freedom of moderate consumption, it's so black and white that way but I know it may be the only sane solution. The idea of abstinence in the eating twelve-step group never worked for me, giving up something only seemed to trigger a binge. Going to meetings seemed to trigger a binge. I don't know.
I do appreciate your support and am relieved to hear that someone else (absolute/fuji) has experienced this; the quotes from Elroy (I think) also helped. This has been my only real problem with either Effexor or Prozac, and as I said before, if I had to choose between the lesser of two evils (eating disorder vs. alcoholism) I'd take alcoholism.
Thanks again.
Posted by rainy on May 5, 2005, at 7:32:38
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by Wendigo on May 5, 2005, at 7:12:57
You know what has helped with me on both eating and alcohol has been Topamax. But it's slipping, or I am. I'm just now at 450 mg nefazodone (serzone) and 400 mgs Topamax and I'm having some bulimia probs again--also occasional 3 instead of 1 glasses of wine. This since increasing the nefazodone. But the Top seemed to whack both cravings for months. I'm b/p II.
Depressed, too. Need to go up on the AD again.rainy
Posted by redjr on May 5, 2005, at 9:43:01
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by Wendigo on May 5, 2005, at 7:12:57
Wendigo,
Thanks for such an open and honest post about your personal experience with Effexor and alcohol tendencies. I don't have the drinking tendencies, but I'm thinking about switching from Effexor (75mg) to something else due to the negative sexual side effects I've been having - along with the Prostatitis symptoms. I like sex too much for it to be interferred with by an AD drug!
redjr..
Posted by redjr on May 5, 2005, at 15:48:53
In reply to Re: new post to effexor.......... » alexanderbb, posted by Corafree on May 3, 2005, at 19:55:28
Corafree,
Don't drop off. I appreciate your candor and comments regarding your experience with Effexor. After all, that's what this forum is all about. To relay - hopefully in a positive way - our own trials and tribulations with a new drug, possibly easing the apprehension of others. Even though you are not currently taking the drug, you have your experience and insight to impart!
There has been so much 'debate' on the merits of ADs and drug therapy in general on this forum. I tend to look at chemicals as a way to bring many people(myself included), suffering from depression or anxiety, out of that dark hole of helplessness and worthlessness, as a way to temporarily 'level the emotional playing field', so we're better able to cope with just the normal situations of life. Without such help we would fall into even darker despair.
I remember just 4 weeks ago, I sat at my kitchen table with my wife, weeping and telling her I just wanted to die. Those that don't understand that feeling, could simply ask, "How could you be so selfish, with 2 beautiful kids, a loving wife, a roof over your head, etc, etc."
Such is the mystery of depression and why it can get a strangle hold on many of us - making many life situation stressfull - if not intolerable - events. ADs have indeed been the life-blood to millions of people whom, for whatever reason, would not have been able to effectively cope.
Effexor came to my rescue and non to soon. In just 4 short weeks I feel like a new man. I am having to deal with a couple of semi-serious side effects, but I don't feel my overall general health is in jepoardy. I also feel that herbal supplements can also be an effective tool in the battle against levels of depression and anxiety.
Most of us live in a society that does not allow us to exercise 3 times a day to ward off depression. Indeed, most of us can't even muster up enough enthusiasm to exercise 3 times a week! At least I can't. I know I should though.
Anyway, just thought I would share my perspective. Thanks again for your insight and sharing.
redjr...
Posted by brv98942 on May 5, 2005, at 16:11:23
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by redjr on May 5, 2005, at 9:43:01
I find if I drink anything on Effexor it has bad side effects! like I get drunk really fast or become seriously upset and I dont know why! So I have stopped drinking!
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 5, 2005, at 16:26:36
In reply to Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by absolute on May 3, 2005, at 23:43:38
I've always thought the SSRI alcoholism thing is a result of either
a) the SSRIs perturbing the normal functioning of some neural circuitry, e.g. through inhibition of DA activity, etc.
or b) the SSRI inducing some anxiety along with apathy that can only be remedied by drinking alcohol.NOTE: When I was on SSRIs, my pot consumption skyrocketed and I developed a habit of heavy use that only now, years later, on the right meds, have brought back to healthy levels.
When the SSRI user consumes alcohol, my groundless hypothesis states that they feel emotional release and pleasure again along with the effect of the SSRI, which makes it more difficult to experience the adverse effects of the alcohol and increases its pro-social action.
Increased substance abuse upon SSRI use I feel is one of "big pharma psychiatry's"--that is, conventional "SSRI-go-round" prescribing habits--dirty little secrets, and it disgusts me. If they put those people on buprenorphine (or perhaps phenelzine) instead, they'd probably drink LESS. Increased alcohol consumption on an SSRI indicates, among other things, that the drug IS NOT WORKING, IMHO.
Posted by Corafree on May 5, 2005, at 22:34:42
In reply to Re: new post to effexor.........., posted by redjr on May 5, 2005, at 15:48:53
rdjr
As I read your post, I felt your feeling as you spoke to your wife.
I've been there and rationalized the selfishness was to stay on as the burden.
We do need one another. We will make it together.
It works for me to continue following the Effexor-XR link.
Who knows how my current mood stabilizer & Valium regimen will play out. So far, o.k., tks...cf
Posted by fuji on May 6, 2005, at 6:27:24
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by Wendigo on May 5, 2005, at 7:12:57
In the years that I drank, I never took ADs. In fact I was sober for like 6 years before I went on them and have not come off since then. I am going back to Effexor from Cymbalta and see how my appetite behaves in a week or so. I gave the Cymbalta 3 weeks and that's long enough as far as I am concerned. The problem with alcohol is that it always gets worse and never gets better. It really is that black and white which is just the way it is. For me, those feelings of remorse and shame after a night of drinking were just intolerable especially considering I was a daily drinker. If anything made me suicidal, it was those feelings deep in my gut after a really hideous night of drinking. Hideous not by quantity of alcohol but by my behavor.
fuji
Posted by Kotari on May 6, 2005, at 8:45:15
In reply to Re: new post to effexor.......... » redjr, posted by Corafree on May 5, 2005, at 22:34:42
Hi,
I have been lurking on this list for a while. I, too, have noticed an increased craving for alcohol while on effexor XR (about 5 years) and have feared that I am developing alcoholism.
I have tried to get off effexor once, when my doc thought that zyprexa would be better for my fibromyalgia symptoms. Weaned almost all the way off of 75 mg. of effexor, but the weight gain hit me - and constant thoughts about food - I had always been thin previously - so I fled back to the effexor.
Recently I have developed migraine headaches, especially in response to alcohol, which I still crave. My doc wants to try me on cymbalta. I am very skeptical. It's hard on your liver, and I tried adding it for about a week (low dose) and it seemed to make me sleepy and want to eat a lot, although my mood did seem a bit better. No effect on the headaches/pain, though.
One of you mentioned you were on cymbalta. I am curious, why did you decide to go back to the effexor?
Kotari
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 6, 2005, at 10:45:49
In reply to Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by absolute on May 3, 2005, at 23:43:38
Hi,
I can concur that Effexor and also to a lesser degree other SSRI's have increased my craving for alcohol in particular but also other drugs. It created a sense of inner restlessness of which I could never determine whether it was mild manic agitation or akathesia (a syndrome of restlessness sometimes induced by drugs that reduce the effects of dopamine in the brain.) Some people are more susceptible than others to akathesia. When I took a tiny dose of Haldol many years ago I was literally pacing in circles to avoid jumping out of my skin. For me and some others SSRI's produce a milder version of this. I can't even tolerate more than 12.5mg of Zoloft without begining to feel this way. No Joke 12.5mg of Zoloft! Whatever the nature of the mild restlessness I found it very hard to stay sober and in fact 75mg of Effexor was the worst. I am now in recovery for alcohol and drug use since November 2nd 2003 (alcohol and cocaine mostly, but I have done them all and certainly have the addict instinct of always wanting to feel differently or perfectly not just undepressed and unanxious so I have to be very careful with the controlled meds I take and honest with my doc). Although I suffer from depression, I believe alcohol and drug addiction is a primary illness not the result of psychiatric disorders in the vast majority of cases I've seen.
Most alcoholics and addicts are not depressed or anxious unless in withdrawal.Anyways..Sorry for the ramble but yes Effexor made me more of booze hound whatever the reason!
Scott
Posted by Kotari on May 6, 2005, at 13:15:47
In reply to Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts, posted by Mr.Scott on May 6, 2005, at 10:45:49
Scott,
I did experience akasthesia on the low dose of zyprexa - literally could not sit still and wanted to jump out of my skin. It would only last for 15-20 mins., but very uncomfortable. Never had anything like that with the effexor, but I recently have been trying to increase my dose above 75 mg. and have been nervously chewing my fingers to bits. Very unattractive.
I am interested in what you said about DOPAMINE. The psych who wanted me to increase the effexor said I would get more dopamine with the higher dose and my sex drive would improve. I think that increasng the dose has caused the migraines. Did not know that low dopamine could cause that restlessness problem. Are there other effects that you know of?
I am seriously considering asking to doc to add wellbutrin to my mix, to see if I can increase dopamine that way.
Anyone else out there take this mix? I'm also taking trazadone at night and it would be great to be able to skip this and still be able to sleep.
Kotari
Posted by fuji on May 6, 2005, at 20:17:34
In reply to Re: new post to effexor.........., posted by Kotari on May 6, 2005, at 8:45:15
I was on Cymbalta for 3 weeks and am in the process of going back to Effexor because I guess I felt better on Effexor. I seemed to have unatural strong cravings for food while on the Cymbata and could eat round the clock. Plus it is not one of my pharmacy plans formulary drugs so I had to pay more for it and would need to feel superb to justify the extra cost.
Also, even though addiction be it alcohol or drug stands alone as a primary disease, it is the rare addict who is not depressed or otherwise suffering with a mental disorder of which the use of alcohol and drugs initially was used for self-medication. My opinion of course based on being an addict and working in the field.
fuji
Posted by Elroy on May 6, 2005, at 21:50:28
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by redjr on May 5, 2005, at 9:43:01
Yes, major, MAJOR problem with prostatitis type sensations with Effexor. Also same-same with Cymbalta, just took Cymbalta longer for the effects to surface. Bad news is that while the symptoms aren't as bad (since I stopped), they haven't gone away completely either. My urologist says that since it's a "non bacteria prostatitis" that there's not much he can do! Suggested maybe Elmiron (which is actually for IC and takes 3 - 6 months to take full effect)!!!
> Wendigo,
>
> Thanks for such an open and honest post about your personal experience with Effexor and alcohol tendencies. I don't have the drinking tendencies, but I'm thinking about switching from Effexor (75mg) to something else due to the negative sexual side effects I've been having - along with the Prostatitis symptoms. I like sex too much for it to be interferred with by an AD drug!
>
> redjr..
Posted by Elroy on May 6, 2005, at 22:36:40
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect?? » absolute, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 5, 2005, at 16:26:36
RE: Increased alcohol consumption on an SSRI indicates, among other things, that the drug IS NOT WORKING, IMHO.
Agree...
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X> I've always thought the SSRI alcoholism thing is a result of either
>
> a) the SSRIs perturbing the normal functioning of some neural circuitry, e.g. through inhibition of DA activity, etc.
> or b) the SSRI inducing some anxiety along with apathy that can only be remedied by drinking alcohol.
>
> NOTE: When I was on SSRIs, my pot consumption skyrocketed and I developed a habit of heavy use that only now, years later, on the right meds, have brought back to healthy levels.
>
> When the SSRI user consumes alcohol, my groundless hypothesis states that they feel emotional release and pleasure again along with the effect of the SSRI, which makes it more difficult to experience the adverse effects of the alcohol and increases its pro-social action.
>
> Increased substance abuse upon SSRI use I feel is one of "big pharma psychiatry's"--that is, conventional "SSRI-go-round" prescribing habits--dirty little secrets, and it disgusts me. If they put those people on buprenorphine (or perhaps phenelzine) instead, they'd probably drink LESS. Increased alcohol consumption on an SSRI indicates, among other things, that the drug IS NOT WORKING, IMHO.
Posted by jubilee on May 7, 2005, at 8:51:34
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Dr. Bob, posted by winddancer on April 23, 2005, at 21:48:36
Woke up w/ swollen arm and hand twice this week . any ideas? Took Symbrax for 3 days last week and it happened , but I stopped. but stoped and didnt have a problem . Think it my neck or the med ? Going to dr on monday.Jubilee
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 7, 2005, at 9:18:23
In reply to Re: Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts, posted by Kotari on May 6, 2005, at 13:15:47
Hi,
I've never heard anyone report improved sex drive from Effexor at any dose. Perhaps if you're near incapacitated, any antidepressant will help but wellbutrin is reportedly more likely than Effexor to achieve this. Don't expect much dopamine action from Effexor and certainly not until around 300mg. However, wellbutrin made 'me' climb the walls while amphetamine does not!! Effex might be causing the headaches, these meds elude even their manufacturers understanding. If the headaches are new it probably is the cause.
In a nut shell...increasing serotonin inhibits the action of dopamine in the nigra-striatal region of the brain (differently for everyone, and with varying sensitivities). In this region dopamine acts as an 'inhibitory' neurotransmitter over acetycholine. This region is frequently associated with movement among other things. Through this cascade of increasing serotonin leading to decreased dopamine and increased acetycholine 'can' a person experience akathisia and other EPS symptoms. Not common from ssri/snri's but it does happen. When it does think of parkinson's symptoms, and related changes in muscle tone or rigidity, restlessness, etc.
But I would say if you can't tolerate the side effects of a higher dose, or/and you feel you need more antidepressant action you should talk to your doc. Thats what they get paid for.
To listen to us whine and ask for pills :-)!
> Scott,
>
> I did experience akasthesia on the low dose of zyprexa - literally could not sit still and wanted to jump out of my skin. It would only last for 15-20 mins., but very uncomfortable. Never had anything like that with the effexor, but I recently have been trying to increase my dose above 75 mg. and have been nervously chewing my fingers to bits. Very unattractive.
>
> I am interested in what you said about DOPAMINE. The psych who wanted me to increase the effexor said I would get more dopamine with the higher dose and my sex drive would improve. I think that increasng the dose has caused the migraines. Did not know that low dopamine could cause that restlessness problem. Are there other effects that you know of?
>
> I am seriously considering asking to doc to add wellbutrin to my mix, to see if I can increase dopamine that way.
>
> Anyone else out there take this mix? I'm also taking trazadone at night and it would be great to be able to skip this and still be able to sleep.
>
> Kotari
>
Posted by StayceeIB on May 7, 2005, at 11:27:15
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » StayceeIB, posted by Corafree on April 23, 2005, at 2:33:27
What is BEnzo?? NO I never took EFFEXOR :( just put it away got to scared... ER went once they gav eme xanax ..I take ativan daily noy sure if it helps....can i beat this without meds??
> So sorry, really sorry you are having soooo much anxiety. You really need to get that under control. The only AD I ever took that helped w/ anxiety is Effexor-XR. Did you take it? Did it help? You cannot go on 24/7 anxiety. Someone needs to help you find something to slow what sounds like is out of control. It sounds so bad to me, I worry, do you think maybe you should go to an ER (as much as they are hard to handle)? I don't know what are your circumstances, your age, your support people. Your body is alerting you to a 'stress overload'. You've got to have help to get that awful constant anxiety under control. I pray 37.5 Effexor-XR will help you. If you can take a few days more of this ... this is the one AD for anxiety. I am inclined to suggest a benzo might be necessary for you. Have you given that any thought? You are in my thoughts and prayers, cf
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