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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 35 to 59 of 114. Go back in thread:
Posted by KaraS on April 13, 2005, at 21:24:07
In reply to Re: Read this before answering my previous post » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on April 11, 2005, at 10:29:12
> Hi Franco,
> Yes I stopped the Wellbutrin. I think it might be worth trying again, but I need to get the "fight or flight" DA-NE-E reaction under control first. I do you the CES occasionally and find it somewhat relaxing. They say the more you use it the better
And not just for relaxation, right? It's also supposed to help with depression I thought.
> I'm not sure what the percentages are. He had it written on the prescription. I think it was 2:1 t4 to t3. I'll find out. I'm only taking 1/4 grain.
So to begin with he had you on Wellbutrin, "Pathroid" and the CES device. Does he have any other plans for you? Have you told him or called his office to say that you've gone off of the Wellbutrin or are you not planning on seeing him anymore?
> I think both scenarios can occur. But as far as the autoreceptors go I think it has more to do with hypersensitivity of individual receptors. However, if the amount of neurotransmitter in the synapse is chronically low than the postsynaptic receptors often increase in number in an attempt to make up for the weak "signal". The opposite is also true. If you chronically excrete too much of a specific neurotransmitter the number of postsynaptic receptors may decrease. It's all part of the brain's attempt to maintain homeostasis. Of course for some of us with neurosomatic problems brain it seems the brain has forgotten where homeostasis is.
...or perhaps for some of us homeostasis is not a healthy place to be. (Since my problems encompass my entire adulthood, I think I'm in this group.)
> I've only just started taking it. Goldstein recommends 1200mg of time released twice per day. I don't have time released so I'm trying to spread it out 600mg 4 times per day.
Any reaction yet on the guaifenisen or is it too early to tell?> He uses the CES and likes it. It's funny but he used to be obsessed with health foods and supplements and since the Lamictal started working he doesn't worry about that stuff too much anymore.
Not so funny. If you feel good then where's the need?
> Do you see a pdoc? They should be able to give you the Millon test.I had been seeing one but couldn't afford it anymore. Recently I did some intake at a free clinic but I've yet to see a doctor. I don't have high hopes though. I imagine he or she will just try to throw the latest SSRI at me or perhaps Cymbalta if I'm lucky.
What is the Millon test? Is it a written questionnaire? Does it take into account the newer definitions of bipolarity that many pdocs are using these days?
> I think he just happened to be lucky enough to have been seeing a doc that was willing to try out Goldstein's protocol with him. He pretty much just started trying meds. Keeping the ones that helped and dropping the ones that didn't. It's best to start with Goldstein's heavy hitters. Neurontin, Lamictal, Baclofen, etc.Definitely need to get a hold of that book!
> > It really is related to brain chemistry and possibly other things going on in the body physiologically. It will be worth all of the searching when we find something(s) that work for us. Just imagine feeling joy in living again, jumping out of bed in the morning because we can't wait to face the new day! It can happen.
>
> From your keyboard to God's ears.:-)
> You know Dr. Goldstein's most effective treatments are IV ketamine and IV lidocaine. I'd really like to give them a try. I may have found a doc who may use them. A friend of my sister's (who is having all kinds of strange physical problems) just went to see him. He's a fairly well know CFS doc in this area. I went to his website and he mentions IV ketamine and also baclofen as possible treatmens, so he's obviously aware of Goldstein's work. I may have to give him a call. I've also started taking a lot of fish oil/borage oil/flax oil to combat the inflamation in my body. Also, TMG and plenty of B vitamins to help lower my homocysteine level. Homocysteine, as I've recently found out, is glutamate/NMDA agonist. There's a lot of fixing to do.I hear you. I'm going to increase my fish oil intake soon. TMG is on my list also. Homocysteine is bad in so many ways. I've been a bit lax with the B vitamins. I'd better start taking them more regularly again. The latest doctor sounds encouraging. Definitely keep me posted as I also have CFS and I think I'm not that far away from you. (I only get CFS attacks periodically these days - unlike when I first was diagnosed. These days I usually get an attack when I'm run down. Now I'm having one but this is the first in a while. But I imagine the treatments you're referring to will do more than just combat the outward physical symptoms of CFS.)
Talk to you later.
K
Posted by islandangel on April 13, 2005, at 22:23:07
In reply to Re: Read this before answering my previous post » franco neuro, posted by KaraS on April 13, 2005, at 21:24:07
Okay, So here's the update on being tired on Wellbutrin XL. I made the switch to SR earlier this past week,hoping the shorter release would help my extreme tiredness. So far, it seems to be working. I just take 150mg SR in the morning. I notice within an hour after I take it I begin to get sleepy but it doesn't last all day like it did with the XL. I get over that tiredness within a couple of hours. I'm still leaving out Elavil for Fibromyalgia/Fatigue at night because I am sleeping so well I don't really need it. I've also cut out carbohydrates and for some reason it really makes me feel better physically.
Hope you are all doing well!
Posted by franco neuro on April 14, 2005, at 11:42:10
In reply to Re: Read this before answering my previous post » franco neuro, posted by KaraS on April 13, 2005, at 21:24:07
Hi Kara,
I need to use the CES device more. I really bought it for the relaxation, but I guess over time it should help depression too. I'm not sure if the $300 could have been better spent at this point, but what the heck I thought I'd get it anyway.
> So to begin with he had you on Wellbutrin, "Pathroid" and the CES device. Does he have any other plans for you? Have you told him or called his office to say that you've gone off of the Wellbutrin or are you not planning on seeing him anymore?
Actually, the Wellbutrin and thyroid were my suggestions and he just agreed with them. He really hasn't had much to offer. I wish he did because I know he's smart. He made the right call with my friend. But I have to say he pretty much told my friend that he was bipolar and Lamictal is a big bipolar med. So I still don't know if it's the bipolar effect that's helping him or the Goldstein anti-glutamate chronic fatigue stuff. Maybe it's both.
I haven't called Braverman's office. I'm just stuck. I called Dr. Podell's office and the woman said she "wasn't aware" if he was using IV ketamine or IV lidocaine. Good answer. So now I'm back to where do I go from here. Should I call the psychopharmacologist pdoc that's in the yellow pages and is located nearby? Maybe I can persuade him to let me try some of Goldstein's oral meds. Maybe not. Braverman does give IV's in his office but I think they're just vitamin drips. Maybe I can persuade him to give me a ketamine or lidocaine IV. I did find a couple of websites about IV ketamine and how it's being used for chronic pain from RSD (regional sympathetic dystrophy). The only doc I could find is in Arizona. There is a RSD support group in Bloomfield so maybe I can call and ask them. This sucks.
> ...or perhaps for some of us homeostasis is not a healthy place to be. (Since my problems encompass my entire adulthood, I think I'm in this group.)
Me too. But I think somewhere deep down our brain knows where the correct homeostasis is but it just can't get to it.
> Any reaction yet on the guaifenisen or is it too early to tell?
Well I took 1200mg in one dose the other day and I must say my brain felt a little weird. Sort of muffled if that makes sense. I'm going to try an experiment 600mg guaifenesin + 300mg lipoic acid + 1 benedryl all at the same time. They are all NMDA antagonists. I want to see how my brain feels with that combo.
> What is the Millon test? Is it a written questionnaire? Does it take into account the newer definitions of bipolarity that many pdocs are using these days?
It's another psychiatric test. The one Dr. Braverman gives is like the SAT. It's about 175 questions. I'm not sure how up to date it is. The problem is it says my two main issues are anxiety and dysthymia which it says should be treated with serotonin and GABA agonists. But the Brain Mapping says my brain serotonin and GABA are already high and dopamine is low. The dysthymia definitely comes from the chronic physical discomfort. The anxiety I think is part of the whole hypervigilent neurosomatic symptom complex. I shouldn't be anxious with all the serotonin and GABA in my head. So why am I? Back to the NMDA/glutamate theory. Which Braverman's Brain Mapping doesn't check. I don't even know if it can be tested. I'm even thinking of trying Amerge which is a serotonin antagonist considering I felt really good for the couple of days after I stopped Zoloft. I'm going to read through "Tuning the Brain" yet again and make a concise list of the major meds and what they work on.Let me leave you with this cheery tidbit from "Tuning the Brain"...it concerns mice who were bred to have overactive NMDA receptors...
"Because the activity of the NMDA receptor is associated with memory and learning, these mice are smarter than normal ("wild-type") mice but are also more sensitive to pain caused by tissue injury and inflammation."
There you have it. The same thing that's causing us to be anxious, depressed, fatigued and in pain has also made us smarter than the average mouse! A cruel twist of fate indeed...
Posted by franco neuro on April 14, 2005, at 11:43:57
In reply to Re: Tired on Wellbutrin XL followup, posted by islandangel on April 13, 2005, at 22:23:07
Hi,
Glad to hear the SR is working better for you. Keep us posted...
Posted by DumbFox on April 14, 2005, at 12:55:15
In reply to Re: Tired on Wellbutrin XL followup, posted by islandangel on April 13, 2005, at 22:23:07
I began Wellbutrin XL 150mg 2 weeks ago, increasing to 300mg after the first 4 days. I have been extremely exhausted since the first dose. I was prescribed this for ADHD and it is making me worse! I can't focus on anything because I am literally nodding off constantly.
I'm glad to hear you are doing better on the SR version. I am speaking with my doctor's nurse this afternoon and am hoping for a stimulant to add. I have not noticed any improvement in depression or my ADHD symptoms since starting WB, just the extreme fatigue.
Does anyone have a theory on why the XL is making a few of us so tired?
Posted by steen on April 14, 2005, at 13:07:18
In reply to Re: I'm so tired on XL too., posted by DumbFox on April 14, 2005, at 12:55:15
I have been on Wellbutrin XL 150 mg qd for 8 days and I haven't felt more tired until the last two nights when I have woken up about 4 and find it hard to get back to sleep. BUT, I can stand that because I have felt a little more energy and my libido is coming back. I haven't had any side effects other than the insomnia and I'm hoping that will subside. So far, so good. The research that I did on Wellbutrin said that the fatigue was temporary, how temporary I don't know.
Good luck.
Posted by KaraS on April 15, 2005, at 16:05:58
In reply to Re: Read this before answering my previous post » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on April 14, 2005, at 11:42:10
> Hi Kara,
>
> I need to use the CES device more. I really bought it for the relaxation, but I guess over time it should help depression too. I'm not sure if the $300 could have been better spent at this point, but what the heck I thought I'd get it anyway.
Don't judge it until you've used it a lot over a significant period of time. You may be surprised at the results.
> Actually, the Wellbutrin and thyroid were my suggestions and he just agreed with them. He really hasn't had much to offer. I wish he did because I know he's smart. He made the right call with my friend. But I have to say he pretty much told my friend that he was bipolar and Lamictal is a big bipolar med. So I still don't know if it's the bipolar effect that's helping him or the Goldstein anti-glutamate chronic fatigue stuff. Maybe it's both.The Wellbutrin and thyroxin any pdoc could have agreed to. I would hope he had more up his sleeve than that for all of the testing and expense you've endured. Same with the Lamictal for your friend. I bet both are helping your friend along with the CES.
> I haven't called Braverman's office. I'm just stuck. I called Dr. Podell's office and the woman said she "wasn't aware" if he was using IV ketamine or IV lidocaine. Good answer. So now I'm back to where do I go from here. Should I call the psychopharmacologist pdoc that's in the yellow pages and is located nearby? Maybe I can persuade him to let me try some of Goldstein's oral meds. Maybe not. Braverman does give IV's in his office but I think they're just vitamin drips. Maybe I can persuade him to give me a ketamine or lidocaine IV. I did find a couple of websites about IV ketamine and how it's being used for chronic pain from RSD (regional sympathetic dystrophy). The only doc I could find is in Arizona. There is a RSD support group in Bloomfield so maybe I can call and ask them. This sucks.I don't blame you for not calling Braverman's office. I wonder if it would be worth it for you to have the rEEG done since you've already gotten the QEEG imaging but I can see that you're more interested in Goldstein's protocols at this point.
What are the lidocaine and ketamine used for? What are the rationales behind their usage? Too bad Dr. Goldstein doesn't have a list of doctors who follow his protocols. (I'm assuming that his book doesn't give this info and that he doesn't have a website with this info either.)
How did you find the doctor in Arizona? I made a mistake in my last post when saying that I reside near you. I think I was confusing you with Elroy or Chris O or someone else who lives in San Diego. Anway, I have a friend in Arizona that I visit occassionally so this might be a doctor for me to keep in mind for the future. (It wouldn't be Dr. Dharma, would it?)
> Well I took 1200mg in one dose the other day and I must say my brain felt a little weird. Sort of muffled if that makes sense. I'm going to try an experiment 600mg guaifenesin + 300mg lipoic acid + 1 benedryl all at the same time. They are all NMDA antagonists. I want to see how my brain feels with that combo.
Sounds interesting. How long will you try it out for? The long term effects may be quite different than the way you feel initially.
> It's another psychiatric test. The one Dr. Braverman gives is like the SAT. It's about 175 questions. I'm not sure how up to date it is. The problem is it says my two main issues are anxiety and dysthymia which it says should be treated with serotonin and GABA agonists. But the Brain Mapping says my brain serotonin and GABA are already high and dopamine is low. The dysthymia definitely comes from the chronic physical discomfort. The anxiety I think is part of the whole hypervigilent neurosomatic symptom complex. I shouldn't be anxious with all the serotonin and GABA in my head. So why am I? Back to the NMDA/glutamate theory. Which Braverman's Brain Mapping doesn't check. I don't even know if it can be tested. I'm even thinking of trying Amerge which is a serotonin antagonist considering I felt really good for the couple of days after I stopped Zoloft. I'm going to read through "Tuning the Brain" yet again and make a concise list of the major meds and what they work on.
Dr. B. should be the one answering that question. I wonder what he would say - assuming you got enough time with him to ask! I felt very sexually hypersensitive when I stopped Zoloft. Someone here suggested that it was because of dopamine surging back. I hadn't heard of Amerge. I'll have to check it out. Another med that came to my mind when reading your last paragraph is tianeptine. Have you considered that one? I've read some really good things about it and some very scary things about it.
> Let me leave you with this cheery tidbit from "Tuning the Brain"...it concerns mice who were bred to have overactive NMDA receptors...
>
> "Because the activity of the NMDA receptor is associated with memory and learning, these mice are smarter than normal ("wild-type") mice but are also more sensitive to pain caused by tissue injury and inflammation."
>
> There you have it. The same thing that's causing us to be anxious, depressed, fatigued and in pain has also made us smarter than the average mouse! A cruel twist of fate indeed...:-) That's comforting indeed. Next time I'm feeling overwhelmed I'll just think of those dumb mice...
K
Posted by franco neuro on April 18, 2005, at 14:51:32
In reply to Re: Read this before answering my previous post » franco neuro, posted by KaraS on April 15, 2005, at 16:05:58
Hi,
> What are the lidocaine and ketamine used for? What are the rationales behind their usage? Too bad Dr. Goldstein doesn't have a list of doctors who follow his protocols. (I'm assuming that his book doesn't give this info and that he doesn't have a website with this info either.)
The lidocaine and ketamine IV's are used as a test to see which oral meds you would most likely respond to. They can also be a treatment in and of themselves. Lidocaine predominantly suppresses glutamate release. Whereas ketamine is an NMDA receptor antagonist. If you find that the lidocaine relieves some or all of your symptoms than you should probably try a drug like Lamictal or Parafon Forte which suppress glutamate release. If, on the other hand, the ketamine helps more, than a drug like amantadine, memantine, etc. may be the place to start. Both ketamine and lidocaine are available in a pill form but they are not as effective and have potentially more side effects. The IV's also don't require weeks or months of taking before you feel an effect. You should know with the initial IV if it's going to help or not. It's all about saving time and not having to spend months or years popping meds haphazardly until you come up with a winning combo.
> How did you find the doctor in Arizona? I made a mistake in my last post when saying that I reside near you. I think I was confusing you with Elroy or Chris O or someone else who lives in San Diego. Anway, I have a friend in Arizona that I visit occassionally so this might be a doctor for me to keep in mind for the future. (It wouldn't be Dr. Dharma, would it?)
I just did a google search for "ketamine IV" and came across a site for RSD (regional sympathetic dystrophy). This Arizone doc is using an in patient 5 day course of ketamine. Not what I want or need. Here is the link:
http://www.rsdhope.org/ShowPage.asp?PAGE_ID=82
There's also a doc in Philadelphia doing the same thing. They are trying to claim it's a "new protocol" that they discovered. Of course Dr. Goldstein has been using IV ketamine and IV lidocaine for pain for years. God the egos in the medical profession are ridiculous. I've contacted a couple of RSD support groups in the area and am trying to get some more info. I think I can get the lidocaine IV as part of a vitamin IV from an alternative doc I have gone to before. I'd rather just get the lidocaine but what can you do. By the way I wish I lived in San Diego. It's supposed to be a nice place.
> I felt very sexually hypersensitive when I stopped Zoloft. Someone here suggested that it was because of dopamine surging back.
I believe that's it exactly. While some SSRI's may increase dopmine with chronic long term use they usually supress DA in the short term.
"SSRI's, acting through the 5-HT2C receptor, increase extracellular 5-HT which acts acutely on 5-HT1 receptors of several types in the VTA to inhibit DA secretion." "Tuning the Brain"
You know too much serotonin can be a problem. Particularly when it's high in comparison to DA. Most people, including most doctors, are completely unaware of this do to the glorification of the SSRI.> I hadn't heard of Amerge. I'll have to check it out. Another med that came to my mind when reading your last paragraph is tianeptine. Have you considered that one?
Amerge (naratriptan) is usually used to treat migraines. It blocks the 5-ht1b receptor which should lower serotonin levels. I'm going to try and stick with Goldstein's heavy hitters. At least initially. I just wish I could find a doc to help me with this. Darn it's frustrating!
Posted by KaraS on April 18, 2005, at 15:44:57
In reply to Re: Ketamine and Lidocaine IV's... » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on April 18, 2005, at 14:51:32
> Hi,
>
> The lidocaine and ketamine IV's are used as a test to see which oral meds you would most likely respond to. They can also be a treatment in and of themselves. Lidocaine predominantly suppresses glutamate release. Whereas ketamine is an NMDA receptor antagonist. If you find that the lidocaine relieves some or all of your symptoms than you should probably try a drug like Lamictal or Parafon Forte which suppress glutamate release. If, on the other hand, the ketamine helps more, than a drug like amantadine, memantine, etc. may be the place to start. Both ketamine and lidocaine are available in a pill form but they are not as effective and have potentially more side effects. The IV's also don't require weeks or months of taking before you feel an effect. You should know with the initial IV if it's going to help or not. It's all about saving time and not having to spend months or years popping meds haphazardly until you come up with a winning combo.Thanks for the explanation. I can see why you would want to have this done. Not only would you save time, but it seems that if you guess wrong on this, you could make yourself a lot worse.
> I just did a google search for "ketamine IV" and came across a site for RSD (regional sympathetic dystrophy). This Arizone doc is using an in patient 5 day course of ketamine. Not what I want or need. Here is the link:
>
> http://www.rsdhope.org/ShowPage.asp?PAGE_ID=82
>
> There's also a doc in Philadelphia doing the same thing. They are trying to claim it's a "new protocol" that they discovered. Of course Dr. Goldstein has been using IV ketamine and IV lidocaine for pain for years. God the egos in the medical profession are ridiculous. I've contacted a couple of RSD support groups in the area and am trying to get some more info. I think I can get the lidocaine IV as part of a vitamin IV from an alternative doc I have gone to before. I'd rather just get the lidocaine but what can you do. By the way I wish I lived in San Diego. It's supposed to be a nice place.Philadelphia is at least closer to you than San Diego. (I'm actually in LA but San Diego IS very nice.) I suppose if that doctor is willing to do what you're looking for, then it's worth it to put up with the ego issue. It's almost impossible to avoid unfortunately.
> > I felt very sexually hypersensitive when I stopped Zoloft. Someone here suggested that it was because of dopamine surging back.
>
> I believe that's it exactly. While some SSRI's may increase dopmine with chronic long term use they usually supress DA in the short term.I've never heard of SSRIs increasing DA in the long-term. I thought that they decreased it and that if anything, it got worse with time. If more DA were made available in time, then the SSRI apathy that so many people experience, would tend to go away eventually - which I've never heard of.
> "SSRI's, acting through the 5-HT2C receptor, increase extracellular 5-HT which acts acutely on 5-HT1 receptors of several types in the VTA to inhibit DA secretion." "Tuning the Brain"> You know too much serotonin can be a problem. Particularly when it's high in comparison to DA. Most people, including most doctors, are completely unaware of this do to the glorification of the SSRI.
Unfortunately most doctors never bother to do any research once out of medical school. They only know what the drug reps tell them and the drug reps sure don't tell them about SSRIs' potential effect on dopamine.
> > I hadn't heard of Amerge. I'll have to check it out. Another med that came to my mind when reading your last paragraph is tianeptine. Have you considered that one?
>
> Amerge (naratriptan) is usually used to treat migraines. It blocks the 5-ht1b receptor which should lower serotonin levels. I'm going to try and stick with Goldstein's heavy hitters. At least initially. I just wish I could find a doc to help me with this. Darn it's frustrating!I pretty sure that in my case, I'm low in serotonin as well dopamine so that wouldn't be a solution for me. I can imagine this is all very frustrating for you. It's hard to do so much research and start figuring out these things that are far ahead of where most of the medical community is at. I guess the only answer is to continue to persevere until you find a doctor who is willing and able to help you.
If you're at all still interested in rEEG, here is an interesting post by someone here on the Newbie Board:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/newbs/20041227/msgs/484207.html
I've asked him or her to repost that on the main board so I (and anyone else interested) could ask questions.
Take care.
Kara
Posted by franco neuro on April 22, 2005, at 14:00:27
In reply to Re: Ketamine and Lidocaine IV's... » franco neuro, posted by KaraS on April 18, 2005, at 15:44:57
Hi Kara,
> I've never heard of SSRIs increasing DA in the long-term. I thought that they decreased it and that if anything, it got worse with time. If more DA were made available in time, then the SSRI apathy that so many people experience, would tend to go away eventually - which I've never heard of.
I agree. Goldstein sites a couple of studies that show some SSRI's raising DA in some areas of the brain after long term use. But he also mentions contradictory studies and states that SSRI's have never helped anyone get over chronic fatigue. Which I believe is totally correct.
> Unfortunately most doctors never bother to do any research once out of medical school. They only know what the drug reps tell them and the drug reps sure don't tell them about SSRIs' potential effect on dopamine.
So true.
Right now I'm still searching for a doc who'll do the lidocaine IV and/or ketamine IV. I think the lidocaine will be easier to get. I also ordered some supplements that are supposed to raise dopamine. I've also been jogging lately. It's a double edged sword. I really need to get my cardiovascular system back in shape but vigorous excersise does deplete DA and NE. But I think right now the upside is greater than the downside. I'll try not to over do it. The saga continues...
Posted by KaraS on April 23, 2005, at 1:56:47
In reply to Re: Ketamine and Lidocaine IV's... » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on April 22, 2005, at 14:00:27
Hi Franco,
Keep me posted if you have any success with the supplements and/or if your are able to find a physician willing to follow Goldstein's protocol with you. I'm really very interested.
Kara
P.S. I think the jogging is a good idea too.
Posted by islandangel on April 24, 2005, at 15:22:22
In reply to Re: Ketamine and Lidocaine IV's... » franco neuro, posted by KaraS on April 23, 2005, at 1:56:47
Hi everyone, thought I would update you all. I've been about 2.5 weeks now after switching from XL to Wellbutrin SR. I still get the tiredness but it only lasts for a short while. I am still able to sleep at night without Elavil and I'm slowly but surely getting better about waking up early instead of dragging myself out of bed at 9am. I've also lost 10 pounds cutting out carbohydrates and sugar! I feel so much better with that little bit of weight off. From time to time I have racing thoughts during stressful days but at least I'm not a zombie like before. I've also been trying high dose 300mg CoQ10 for energy, it seems to be helping a little.
Take care all!
Posted by Declan on April 25, 2005, at 17:25:31
In reply to Re: Ketamine and Lidocaine IV's..., posted by islandangel on April 24, 2005, at 15:22:22
Hi
What dose of Ketamine? When I used it decades ago (non prescribed) it was pretty wild, and except in *tiny* doses its hard to imagine anyone thinking it helped them function better.
Declan
Posted by rfied on May 3, 2005, at 21:37:35
In reply to Re: Read this before answering my previous post » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on April 11, 2005, at 10:29:12
> Franco, Hi, what is your impression of Dr Bravermans office/approach, I'm thinking of taking my daughter there(mitral valve prolapse causing anxiety,depression) but SNRI not working. Is it all legit or just forcing u to buy his vitamin supplements, BEAM really show your neuro trans condition?? Is 1st appt like 5 hours total? any input would be appreciated before I blow $$$
Thanks, blessings
rfied
>
Posted by AMD on May 7, 2005, at 21:39:49
In reply to Re: Ketamine and Lidocaine IV's... » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on April 22, 2005, at 14:00:27
Thursday night I did my first ever recreational (or otherwise) dose of ketamine: I snorted a bump of ketamine powder from my hand. At the time I was high on cocaine, and had been drinking and smoking most of the night. I didn't notice any effects even a few hours after the bump.
I am taking 200 mg of Lamictal and 40 mg of Celexa for bipolar II disorder, and about 8 hours after the bump I took ~ 50 mg of Seroquel to help me sleep.
Now, a couple days after, still feeling blue from that night -- I suspect cocaine withdrawal -- I am wondering if that dose of ketamine in combination with my current psychotropic drug regimen may have caused permanent brain damage. Is this possible? If not from the K alone, then from mixing it with my medications and/or the other drugs I did that night?
amd
Posted by Declan on May 8, 2005, at 0:21:28
In reply to On the ketamine note ... » franco neuro, posted by AMD on May 7, 2005, at 21:39:49
No damage because no discernable effect. Ketamine has the *most* pronounced effects, as I guess you would know.
Declan
Posted by AMD on May 8, 2005, at 0:52:29
In reply to Re: On the ketamine note ..., posted by Declan on May 8, 2005, at 0:21:28
Is it that simple?
Here I am scrounging through the numerous articles on concentration, memory loss, and ketamine.
Well, I assume I took about 25-75 mg nasally. Not sure how high or low a dose this is considered.
amd
Posted by Declan on May 8, 2005, at 3:41:57
In reply to Re: On the ketamine note ... » Declan, posted by AMD on May 8, 2005, at 0:52:29
Yeah I think so. Years ago I used vet stuff, 25-100mg IM or God forbid IV. Weirder than anything else I tried. Flow into a wall and turn into plastic 1/2" thick, that sort of thing. Terrible stuff, IMO.
Declan
Posted by franco neuro on May 11, 2005, at 19:48:44
In reply to FRANCO Read this before answering my previous post, posted by rfied on May 3, 2005, at 21:37:35
> Franco, Hi, what is your impression of Dr Bravermans office/approach, I'm thinking of taking my daughter there(mitral valve prolapse causing anxiety,depression) but SNRI not working. Is it all legit or just forcing u to buy his vitamin supplements, BEAM really show your neuro trans condition?? Is 1st appt like 5 hours total? any input would be appreciated before I blow $$$
Thanks, blessings
rfied
>Hi,
Sorry it took so long to respond. I've been out of the loop for a couple of weeks. Also sorry to here that your daughter is having some problems. I'm reluctant to give anyone advice on whether they should see a particular doctor or take a particular medication. All I can do is pass on my experiences. I don't know what kind of insurance you have, but if your planning on paying out of pocket be prepared to dig deep. If you tell them you have no insurance and are financially strapped they will give a big discount. But it's still going to be expensive.
The first visit will last the better part of a day. I think I was there about six hours. After all the testing you get about a half an hour with Braverman. I think, in my case, the BEAM was pretty accurate. Also, the Millon psychological diagnostic test. I also had an EKG and an ultrasound of my heart. And had six vials of blood taken. This was all well and good. The problem is, after all was said and done, I'm still pretty much trying to cure myself. The guy is really hard to get any time with after the first visit.
Also, when I've gone back to discuss medication adjustments or switches they always try to get me to take another round of very expensive tests. I mean $200 for an 18 question 20 minute cognative function test. Come on. I'm not saying the guy isn't smart. He picked the right medication for a friend of mine and while it hasn't completely cured him it has given him his life back. But I think a lot of other doctors would have come up with the same very popular drug (Lamictal) for a lot less money. Maybe not.
As for me, my psychological issues are secondary to my chronic pain and chronic fatigue. I think I may have finally found the answer in the book "Tuning the Brain" by retired genius Dr. Jay A. Goldstein. The problem is I still need a doctor to help me with his medication protocol. I'm not sure for me that Dr. Braverman is the guy. I haven't given up on him yet though and plan on going back and getting him to work for some of the money I spent there. It's always a crap shoot. That's why I cringe at the thought of going to yet another doctor. I hope this has been some help to you. Good luck.
Posted by rfied on May 11, 2005, at 20:15:44
In reply to Re: FRANCO Read this before answering my previous post, posted by franco neuro on May 11, 2005, at 19:48:44
thanks, i called his office, they weren't that pleasant, he calls later abruptly just to pressure u to set up appt. I am also trying Dr Ronald Hoffman in NYC, famous nutritional Dr , his people a lot more compassionate, caring on phone, when i mentioned Braverman the one lady had a bad reaction, all the brain experts i have emailed dont believe Bravermans approach, only a theory no clinical peer review etc>
you may want to consider the Hoffman Center in NYC
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 11, 2005, at 20:49:27
In reply to Re: On the ketamine note ... » Declan, posted by AMD on May 8, 2005, at 0:52:29
I would not be concerned about any untoward effects given that dosage and the drugs you are taking. Ketamine is really quite a safe drug. The problem is knowing that what you took _IS_ pharmaceutical ketamine and nothing else ...
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 11, 2005, at 20:51:47
In reply to Re: FRANCO Read this before answering my previous post, posted by rfied on May 11, 2005, at 20:15:44
I am not saying it applies in this case, but sometimes there are "no peer reviews" of a given treatment because no one who is part of the orthodoxy wants to allow one to take place.
Example: Marijuana is schedule I because there is no medical use. --> we cannot do a marijuana trial for x disorder because it is schedule I --> marijuana has no medical use --> ad nauseum
Posted by franco neuro on May 12, 2005, at 14:25:31
In reply to Re: FRANCO Read this before answering my previous post, posted by rfied on May 11, 2005, at 20:15:44
Interesting. What exactly do they do at the Hoffman Center. I'm actually trying to find a doctor who uses Lidocaine and/or Ketamine IV's to treat chronic pain. I've done a lot of research on the mechanisms involved with chronic neuropathic pain and I think this will help me a lot. The only good thing is I think I can get Braverman to give me a Lidocaine IV. He does the whole intravenous vitamin thing and they often put lidocaine in the mix to prevent irritation to the arteries. I just want them to hold the vitamins and just give me the lidocaine. As long as they'll make money off of it I'm sure they'll do it. I really want to try the ketamine IV but they may not go for that one. I don't think they understand the pharmacokinetics.
Posted by franco neuro on May 12, 2005, at 14:52:10
In reply to Re: On the ketamine note ... » AMD, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 11, 2005, at 20:49:27
Exactly. Ketamine is indeed a safe and useful medication. The thing that pisses me off about recreational drug use is that inevitably some knucklehead eighteen year old will pop a fistful of whatever the "in" drug is at the moment and end up dead or brain fried. Then the media blows it out of proportion and the politicians start screaming about how this "dangerous" substance should be taken off the market. Then of course the DEA and FDA morons make it almost impossible for people who actually have medical problems to get what is otherwise a very effective medication because uninformed ball-less doctors become afraid to prescribe it! Ok...end of rant...
Posted by ed_uk on May 12, 2005, at 16:35:37
In reply to Re: On the ketamine note ..., posted by franco neuro on May 12, 2005, at 14:52:10
> The thing that pisses me off about recreational drug use is that inevitably some knucklehead eighteen year old will pop a fistful of whatever the "in" drug is at the moment and end up dead or brain fried. Then the media blows it out of proportion and the politicians start screaming about how this "dangerous" substance should be taken off the market. Then of course the DEA and FDA morons make it almost impossible for people who actually have medical problems to get what is otherwise a very effective medication because uninformed ball-less doctors become afraid to prescribe it! Ok...end of rant...
This particularly applies to opioids. There seems to be mass hysteria about opioids in the US!
Ed.
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