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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by musil on April 21, 2005, at 6:58:45
In reply to Re: Lunesta v. Ambien, not a clean swap » musil, posted by jerrympls on April 21, 2005, at 1:11:03
I took the valium as prescribed and the halcyon as prescribed. What am I missing regarding the dangers of taking both together? I have been Rx'ed 10mg diazepam 2X daily (AM & PM) plus Ambien plus Halcyon if early wakeup around 2AM. The idea is that triazolem is short lived enough to take at 2AM so that there is no extreme hangover in the AM.
The Lunesta was intended to replace the Ambien and hopefully relieve the early waking so that Halcyon wasn't necessary for early waking.
What is my pdoc missing besides the benefit of youth and 3 feet of colon?
Posted by vivi on April 21, 2005, at 18:10:23
In reply to Valium + Halcyon dangerous? Re: Lunesta v. Ambien, posted by musil on April 21, 2005, at 6:58:45
> I took the valium as prescribed and the halcyon as prescribed. What am I missing regarding the dangers of taking both together? I have been Rx'ed 10mg diazepam 2X daily (AM & PM) plus Ambien plus Halcyon if early wakeup around 2AM. The idea is that triazolem is short lived enough to take at 2AM so that there is no extreme hangover in the AM.
>
> The Lunesta was intended to replace the Ambien and hopefully relieve the early waking so that Halcyon wasn't necessary for early waking.
>
> What is my pdoc missing besides the benefit of youth and 3 feet of colon?Is Halcyon used for sleep? I have never heard about it.
Posted by musil on April 21, 2005, at 18:34:22
In reply to Re: Valium + Halcyon dangerous? Re: Lunesta v. Ambien, posted by vivi on April 21, 2005, at 18:10:23
>
> Is Halcyon used for sleep? I have never heard about it.
>
>
http://www.parpharm.com/downloads/triazolam_po.pdf
Triazolam is a hypnotic with a short mean plasma half-life reported to be in the range of 1.5 to 5.5
hours. In normal subjects treated for seven days with four times the recommended dosage, there was
no evidence of altered systemic bioavailability, rate of elimination, or accumulation. Peak plasma levels
are reached within 2 hours following oral administration. Following recommended doses of triazolam,
triazolam peak plasma levels in the range of 1 to 6 ng/mL are seen. The plasma levels
achieved are proportional to the dose given.
Triazolam and its metabolites, principally as conjugated glucuronides which are presumably inactive,
are excreted primarily in the urine. Only small amounts of unmetabolized triazolam appear in the
urine. The two primary metabolites accounted for 79.9% of urinary excretion. Urinary excretion appeared
to be biphasic in its time course.
.....In sleep laboratory studies, triazolam significantly decreased sleep latency, increased the duration of
sleep and decreased the number of nocturnal awakenings. After two weeks of consecutive nightly
administration, the drug’s effect on total wake time is decreased, and the values recorded in the last
third of the night approach baseline levels. On the first and/or second night after drug discontinuance
(first or second post-drug night), total time asleep, percentage of time spent sleeping, and rapidity of
falling asleep frequently were significantly less than on baseline (predrug) nights. This effect is often called “rebound” insomnia.
Posted by lois on April 21, 2005, at 20:36:12
In reply to Lunesta, Has Anyone Tried It?, posted by Phillipa on April 10, 2005, at 13:06:33
I took 2 mgs for a week and so-so. Now on 3mgs,and a little better. Headache during the day.
Has anyone tried 4mgs? I know it's not suggested, just wondering.
Lois
Posted by betternow on April 22, 2005, at 22:54:26
In reply to Re: Lunesta, Has Anyone Tried It?, posted by lois on April 21, 2005, at 20:36:12
I took 4mg about 3 hrs ago. I'm still here, awake. This is my fourth night of no sllep on 4mgs. Tomorrow I will goto 6mgs. The science behind this drug is too good for this drug to respond so poorly at indicated dosages. My guess is that Sepracor studied the drug on relatively healthy participants, not us. Us being this little population of folks who just can't seem to feel right. I think we need higher doses of everything.
But I could be wrong about all that. This could just be one of the many new products that get FDA approval and are worthless.I wll give an update on my 6mg adventure. If no efficacy I will the try 8mg. If that works, then my pdoc will need to prescribe 120 tabs/month. I guarentee no coverage at that dose point.
Bottom line: We can dose adjust and experiment all day long. But at the end of the day, this is just not a good product. Ambien, which will be generic soon, blows it away.
Posted by fachad on April 23, 2005, at 0:05:22
In reply to Re: Lunesta, Has Anyone Tried It? » lois, posted by betternow on April 22, 2005, at 22:54:26
Ambien is going to be generic soon? How soon? Have they filed all manner of legal BS to preserve the patent protection?
Is there a date for patent expiration? Have any generic manufactureres applied?
I agree that Ambien seems to be a better product than Lunesta. My insurance will not cover more than 30 3mg tablets a month (they will not cover more than 30 10 mg Ambien per month) and either med carries a $50/month copay.
If Ambien goes generic, the copay will drop to $10/month and in some cases they will cover more than the prescribing limit if the med is generic.
Posted by fachad on April 23, 2005, at 2:30:00
In reply to Ambien generic soon? I agree Ambien is better, posted by fachad on April 23, 2005, at 0:05:22
Now unless they have their lawyers do the patent protecting dance, that means we will see generic Ambien in about April of 2007 - still two years away.
Posted by ed_uk on April 23, 2005, at 12:41:23
In reply to Ambien Patent Expires Oct 21, 2006, posted by fachad on April 23, 2005, at 2:30:00
Hi,
>Generic Ambien (zolpidem).........
In the UK we've had a generic zolpidem for a while now.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by vivi on April 23, 2005, at 19:13:33
In reply to Ambien generic soon? I agree Ambien is better, posted by fachad on April 23, 2005, at 0:05:22
> Ambien is going to be generic soon? How soon? Have they filed all manner of legal BS to preserve the patent protection?
>
> Is there a date for patent expiration? Have any generic manufactureres applied?
>
> I agree that Ambien seems to be a better product than Lunesta. My insurance will not cover more than 30 3mg tablets a month (they will not cover more than 30 10 mg Ambien per month) and either med carries a $50/month copay.
>
> If Ambien goes generic, the copay will drop to $10/month and in some cases they will cover more than the prescribing limit if the med is generic.I have to pay $25/month for Ambien, but if you come in 1 day before the 30 days, they will not cover the prescription. Insurance companies are so funny about sleep aids. At least it seems that way with mine. I just switched to lunesta 3 mgs and so far the results have been good. I do like that ambien works faster.
Posted by mugsy on April 24, 2005, at 0:30:58
In reply to Re: Ambien generic soon? I agree Ambien is better » fachad, posted by vivi on April 23, 2005, at 19:13:33
I just tried lunesta desperately hoping to find a gentler but effective alternative to the seroquel I've been taking (was taking 300-400 mg seroquel but tapered to less than 50mg for past couple of months).
The first night (two nights ago) I took 2mg of lunesta and about 25 mg of seroquel. Went to sleep easily but woke up early (maybe got 4 hours or so of sleep) and could not get back to sleep after that. Did not seem to have the munchies as much as with seroquel but felt ok except for this really weird taste in my mouth which lasted through half of the next day. The taste is most noticable when I drink water, lingering bitter taste. The second night on Lunesta I took 2mg lunesta and no seroquel, I slept for a bit and woke up, I took another 2mg of Lunesta and went back to bed, slept a few hours and woke up again not really able to get back to sleep.
So that is my first two nights on Lunesta. Tonight I feel a little weird. I don't know what to take now... but I know I won't sleep without an effective sedative.
I'm bummed that lunesta isn't much better than it seems to me.
This chronic insomnia has been killing me for many years and seroquel is not really very gentle for me. None of my doctors will prescribe benzos on a regular basis but they have been effective and by far the gentlest of them all for for me. The benzo tolerance effect is a pain but with careful dosing I found could be manageable for a long time.
Seroquel makes me hungry and fat, affects my vision in a bad way, dries out and inflames my throat, irritates my sinuses and does other weird physical and mental stuff... but I either take that or friggin die of insomnia the way it is for me now.
I'm disappointed in lunesta. it's hard to believe we can put a man on the moon but can't have a gentle and effective medication for chronic insomnia.
Posted by vivi on April 24, 2005, at 0:46:57
In reply to seroquel to lunesta experience, posted by mugsy on April 24, 2005, at 0:30:58
> I just tried lunesta desperately hoping to find a gentler but effective alternative to the seroquel I've been taking (was taking 300-400 mg seroquel but tapered to less than 50mg for past couple of months).
>
> The first night (two nights ago) I took 2mg of lunesta and about 25 mg of seroquel. Went to sleep easily but woke up early (maybe got 4 hours or so of sleep) and could not get back to sleep after that. Did not seem to have the munchies as much as with seroquel but felt ok except for this really weird taste in my mouth which lasted through half of the next day. The taste is most noticable when I drink water, lingering bitter taste. The second night on Lunesta I took 2mg lunesta and no seroquel, I slept for a bit and woke up, I took another 2mg of Lunesta and went back to bed, slept a few hours and woke up again not really able to get back to sleep.
>
> So that is my first two nights on Lunesta. Tonight I feel a little weird. I don't know what to take now... but I know I won't sleep without an effective sedative.
>
> I'm bummed that lunesta isn't much better than it seems to me.
>
> This chronic insomnia has been killing me for many years and seroquel is not really very gentle for me. None of my doctors will prescribe benzos on a regular basis but they have been effective and by far the gentlest of them all for for me. The benzo tolerance effect is a pain but with careful dosing I found could be manageable for a long time.
>
> Seroquel makes me hungry and fat, affects my vision in a bad way, dries out and inflames my throat, irritates my sinuses and does other weird physical and mental stuff... but I either take that or friggin die of insomnia the way it is for me now.
>
> I'm disappointed in lunesta. it's hard to believe we can put a man on the moon but can't have a gentle and effective medication for chronic insomnia.
Have you tried Ambien? it works faster than Lunesta, but not as long. I liked ambien, but I needed something stronger. I have read some posts that mention Remeron?
Vivi
Posted by mugsy on April 24, 2005, at 0:55:42
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience » mugsy, posted by vivi on April 24, 2005, at 0:46:57
I tried a small amount of ambien a few times. It didn't seem to do much for me so I wrote it off pretty much. I might consider giving that another try sometime. I did try remeron once and it did not agree with me at all but I know a couple of people who found it helpful for them.
Posted by vivi on April 24, 2005, at 1:05:37
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience, posted by mugsy on April 24, 2005, at 0:55:42
> I tried a small amount of ambien a few times. It didn't seem to do much for me so I wrote it off pretty much. I might consider giving that another try sometime. I did try remeron once and it did not agree with me at all but I know a couple of people who found it helpful for them.
I took ambien 10mg and it would work right away, but if your problem is staying asleep, you might need to try something else like Klonopin. i have used that (not for sleep) but it did help me fall and stay asleep.
Vivi
Posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2005, at 17:22:53
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience » mugsy, posted by vivi on April 24, 2005, at 1:05:37
I tried remeron l5mg and was afraid of wt gain. And since I was taking it with valium I really didn't think it helped. I'm still amazed at the posters who say remeron made them sleep for up to 20hours. Fondly,Phillipa
Posted by jerrympls on April 25, 2005, at 20:47:23
In reply to seroquel to lunesta experience, posted by mugsy on April 24, 2005, at 0:30:58
> I just tried lunesta desperately hoping to find a gentler but effective alternative to the seroquel I've been taking (was taking 300-400 mg seroquel but tapered to less than 50mg for past couple of months).
>
> The first night (two nights ago) I took 2mg of lunesta and about 25 mg of seroquel. Went to sleep easily but woke up early (maybe got 4 hours or so of sleep) and could not get back to sleep after that. Did not seem to have the munchies as much as with seroquel but felt ok except for this really weird taste in my mouth which lasted through half of the next day. The taste is most noticable when I drink water, lingering bitter taste. The second night on Lunesta I took 2mg lunesta and no seroquel, I slept for a bit and woke up, I took another 2mg of Lunesta and went back to bed, slept a few hours and woke up again not really able to get back to sleep.
>
> So that is my first two nights on Lunesta. Tonight I feel a little weird. I don't know what to take now... but I know I won't sleep without an effective sedative.
>
> I'm bummed that lunesta isn't much better than it seems to me.
>
> This chronic insomnia has been killing me for many years and seroquel is not really very gentle for me. None of my doctors will prescribe benzos on a regular basis but they have been effective and by far the gentlest of them all for for me. The benzo tolerance effect is a pain but with careful dosing I found could be manageable for a long time.
>
> Seroquel makes me hungry and fat, affects my vision in a bad way, dries out and inflames my throat, irritates my sinuses and does other weird physical and mental stuff... but I either take that or friggin die of insomnia the way it is for me now.
>
> I'm disappointed in lunesta. it's hard to believe we can put a man on the moon but can't have a gentle and effective medication for chronic insomnia.WOW - this is the exact stiuation I'm in! I'm finding that Lunesta isn't the great sleep med I'd hoped. I think my lack of response to it is because of too many years on benzos and Ambien....? The Seroquel is the only thing that will knock me out - but I can barely get out of bed in the morning which has caused many absences and tardiness to work = could very well get fired.
I see a sleep doc tomorrow - hopefully he'll have some good news?
Posted by jerrympls on April 25, 2005, at 20:49:29
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience, posted by mugsy on April 24, 2005, at 0:55:42
> I tried a small amount of ambien a few times. It didn't seem to do much for me so I wrote it off pretty much. I might consider giving that another try sometime. I did try remeron once and it did not agree with me at all but I know a couple of people who found it helpful for them.
Remeron does a great job of reducing my nighttime anxiety - but even at 15mg it makes my appetite OUT OF CONTROL.
Posted by jerrympls on April 25, 2005, at 20:59:57
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience, posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2005, at 17:22:53
> I tried remeron l5mg and was afraid of wt gain. And since I was taking it with valium I really didn't think it helped. I'm still amazed at the posters who say remeron made them sleep for up to 20hours. Fondly,Phillipa
I've had very similar experiences - it helped with anxiety and relaxed me but doesn't put me out light a light.
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 21:26:14
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience » Phillipa, posted by jerrympls on April 25, 2005, at 20:59:57
Corona with lime was my vice! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by awatts on April 26, 2005, at 8:56:50
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience » jerrympls, posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 21:26:14
> Corona with lime was my vice! Fondly, Phillipa
Add some chloral hydrate to that and it WILL put you out like a light <grin>. However, I would not advise this.
Posted by Phillipa on April 26, 2005, at 17:53:04
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience, posted by awatts on April 26, 2005, at 8:56:50
That's why I had to quit drinking my pdoc put me on chloral hydrate. Eight years later I am finally off it and now on valium. But I'm afraid to drink! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Lieutenant McNasty on April 28, 2005, at 2:08:07
In reply to Re: Lunesta, Has Anyone Tried It?, posted by awatts on April 10, 2005, at 13:33:21
I just took Lunestra 3mg righ tnow. forgive my sypeing, it'ms so freaking dizzy right wnow I cant controlmyself as all. but other than the dizziness which id kind of cool (I'm an ex druggie), I explain it's symptoms as making you slightly stoned or tipsy. I'm abott to go to sleep now, so I'll let you know how it goes.
oh yeah...ther's this ungodly metallic taste in my mouth. and again, with the drug refereces, it feels like drainage from cocaine. a terrible silvery taste that you can't wash out. I should sleep well tonight though, it's allready konking me out.
sorry for grammer and drug references. sometimes the y help. I ;ll let you know hos things work out in the morningp.s - that taste goesn't go away so far, but it is getting bettetr. it too me 30 minutes to register for this site, and now I feel like I'm totally tipsy or stoned - very diszzy, equilibrium is off. but now, time for bed. wooooo
I'll update later, folks
> > From reading the Threads I know the pdocs are Rxing Lunesta, but so far I don't know that anyone has been able to obtain it. Have the pharmacies gotten it in? Anyone tried it yet at all? No samples? Thanks Phillipa
>
> Same here. Please, people who are trying Lunesta, what are your experiences?
>
> I can never sleep for more than 2 hours at a time, and I think that might be contributing to my major depression.
>
> I would expecially like to hear from people who suffer from major, disabling depression who have (or have not) been helped by Lunesta.
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2005, at 18:06:39
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience » awatts, posted by Phillipa on April 26, 2005, at 17:53:04
Okay, saw my pdoc today. She agreed with what everyone has been saying about lunesta. All the mixed reviews. The only thing I forgot to mention was the aftertaste. But, she was out of samples and when I told her how expensive the tablets were she gave me a voucher for 4 free 3mg tabs to try. I'll have to wait til tomorrow. But she did say it was nonaddictive, and she's an addiction specialist. Search Judith S Yongue. She has quite an impressive list of papers, and reviews she does. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by MissOphelia on April 30, 2005, at 1:15:58
In reply to Re: seroquel to lunesta experience » jerrympls, posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 21:26:14
This will be my second night of Lunesta.
The taste that it leaves is HORRIBLE, BEYOND HORRIBLE.
I HAVE HAD THE TASTE FOR OVER 24 HOURS. IT IS NOT EVEN DESCRIBABLE!!!
I like Ambien the best , by far.
Posted by Liverhead on April 30, 2005, at 17:50:21
In reply to 2nd night of Lunestra, posted by fachad on April 21, 2005, at 1:11:18
I'm a long time Ambien user and was really anxious to try Lunestra. I've followed it for about 2 years.
What a disappointment!
Took 3 mg last night. I started yawning like a maniac afer 40 min, figured that was that and turned off the light. Nothing. An hour later I took Melatonin and Neurontin, which almost did the trick, however 5 mg of Ambien was needed (normally chicken feed for me). Finally, 2 hrs after the whole experience started I fell asleep, but not before the bitter taste in the back of my throat and sinuses started, No biggie.
But by this morning, it was UNSPEAKABLE. And hasn't quite worn off, nearly 21 hours after taking it for the 1st (and last time).
I could have dealt with the taste (maybe) had it been more effective than Ambien, which is was not.
BTW- I've been seeing a new doc lately (she wrote the Lunestra Rx, her first) and I was doing better before I even tried the Lunestra. Pre-loading with melatonin and 1200 mg Neurontin really makes the Ambien work better. I can get away with 10 mg!Good luck guys. I hope you experiences are better than mine, although from what I've read so far, they are not.
I'm selling all my Sepracor stock Monday. This is gonna bomb, IMHO.
Posted by Chad_b234 on May 2, 2005, at 0:55:53
In reply to This is a BAD drug » fachad, posted by Liverhead on April 30, 2005, at 17:50:21
I have been using Ambien for about a month now with EXCELLENT results! I've suffered from problems falling asleep and general sleep deprivation for years. I've only recently began searching for help with the problem. I started out with Zoloft, thinking it was depression related. After a couple months of treatment with Zoloft I really wasn't sleeping any better so my Dr gave me some Ambien to try. I have also scheduled a sleep study, but the earliest I could get in is June. For the first time in a very long time I am able to function normally throughout the day, I never realized how bad I felt till I had a good night of sleep with the Ambien. Its hard to describe how excited I have been lately to feel so great! I'm almost 30 and I truly can't remember feeling this good since I was in my early teens. Here is the problem... After my first 15 Ambien my Dr will not refill my prescription. No matter how much I begged for them, even just enough to get me to my sleep study he wouldn't refill it. Now he gave me Doxepin, I took it about an hour ago and here I sit typing on the computer at 1 am. I would like to try the Lunestra, I have been following it a bit lately, but he hadn't even heard of it. How hard is it to get Ambien for anyone else? Is it just my Dr or is it really that strictly limited? I guess for the meantime I'll just suffer till I find out what my real problem is. I'd appreciate any help from anyone who has been through the same thing.
Thanks,
Chad
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