![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 66. Go back in thread:
Posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 22:54:21
In reply to Re: I'm sorry » Racer, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 21:35:16
Thank you, Maxime. Having you accept my apology means a lot to me.
Your problems with getting coordinated care are awful. Damn that just makes me so angry! The worst of it is that you're not being heard when you tell them that something is not right! I went through something similar when I was in college, with a UTI that wouldn't go away. The doctor kept blaming me, lecturing me about taking all the meds, etc -- which I was doing, every time she prescribed the same dose of Tetracycline -- until after I got out of the hospital where I landed with a kidney infection caused by a drug resistent bacteria!
Best luck to you, Maxi, and once again -- thank you.
Posted by barbaracat on March 31, 2005, at 16:16:52
In reply to Re: I'm sorry » Racer, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 21:35:16
Hi Maxine,
Ooh, my heart goes out to you. Sometimes it's so uncomfortable to be alive and to have a fumbling pdoc you don't have confidence in makes it seem even more bleak. I simply do not understand how some of these folks made it through the rigours of medical school.
About hospitalization, I've been through 2, most recently late January. It was basically a Zen, minimalist experience, a time out of time fueled by plenty of lorazepam. Didn't 'help' me, but gave me a time out to reasses things, and I must admit, a hidden motive was to drive the screws of awareness into my husband's brain that things really have been that bad for me.If you think you need to be hospitalized, is it so different in Canada as in the US? We merely have to show up at the Emergency Room stating we're suicidal, and they have to admit you. No matter what you're financial status is, each state has money earmarked for this and it's usually better for the patient financially and the level of care than relying on what's allowed by insurance. This was told to me by a pretty open mental health care worker, that hospitals must take you and ER depts are the place to go. The fact that you're admitting you have plans to your current pdoc and he's not taking it seriously is cause for concern. There must be a way to find out for sure that you have this recourse if you need it.
> As for the thyroid situation.
**Thyroid, very very important, mucho important. Mine has been hypo most of my life and since starting Lithium, has bounced all over. I have fibromyalgia and the symptoms are identical to low thryoid. My TSH literally ping-pongs. Long story short, I've tried Armour and the others and the ratio of T3 is far too high for my bipolar anxiety in these natural formulations. What has worked very well is Synthroid with a small about (10mg) of Cytomel. I've had numerous trials of T4 alone and it just didn't work. T3 alone, ick, too much anxiety. But the two have been very stable and the fibro symtpoms are all but gone. My TSH is very low, skimming hyper, which is where I feel best.
I really encourage you to insist on a trial of Cytomel. No matter what your doctor thinks of it, the important thing is what you think of it. Hang in there. - Barbara
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 31, 2005, at 23:18:27
In reply to My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 12:50:41
maxime..you are upset your pdoc wouldnt "throw" you into the hospital?
you are a very clever person...what is it that you want?
more meds?
ability to help yourself?
someone to take care of you?
the canadian health care system is not to blame ..
nor the pdoc..
it is the illness..
try to find out waht it is that you do need...
go from there..
j
Posted by Sarah T. on April 1, 2005, at 0:01:48
In reply to My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 12:50:41
There are so many incompetent, incapable doctors. It's appalling, frustrating and maddening! I read that in ancient China, patients paid doctors only when they (the patients) were well, so that provided an incentive for the doctors to help and heal the patients.
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:18:39
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by justyourlaugh on March 31, 2005, at 23:18:27
> maxime..you are upset your pdoc wouldnt "throw" you into the hospital?
No, not upset at all. Surprised.
> you are a very clever person...what is it that you want?I am a very clever person. I fall into the class of genius. I want my brain back.
> more meds?
Dear god, no more meds! No more f*cking meds!
> ability to help yourself?
Ability to change the system so that it benefits both the patient and the doctor. If my endocrinologist would agree to work with my pdoc, I might actually see some progress. I am convinced that my mood problems are linked to a metabolic problem. But my endocrinologist would not listen to my pdoc and I do not have the ability to make him listen unless I hire someone from the mob here in Montreal. I don't have the funds to do that.
> someone to take care of you?
I can take care of myself but it would be nice for someone to tell me (in real life) that it's okay for me to be sick at times and that sleeping in the afternoon isn't a sign of laziness.
> the canadian health care system is not to blame
Well it's not helping is it? The Health Minister is not allocating enough money into mental health. There are no incentives to keep our psychiatrists here. They all move to U.S. where they will get paid more. Waiting 9-12 months to see a psychiatrist is not okay. That is 9-12 months of my life put on the back burner. So yes, it's very much to blame. Of all the people requiring medical care, those with mental health problems are the LEAST able to advocate for themselves. ER doctors aren't trained to deal with psychiatric patients.
There is a bridge in Montreal - The Jacques Cartier Bridge. Many people complete suicides from that bridge. So someone in Health Canada PAID researchers to see if it would be worthwhile to put up barriers to stop people from jumping of the bridge. After ONE YEAR of research it was decided that "yes" barrier should be put up. The barriers are there now. Well less people have completed suicide from the bridge. HOWEVER, the percentage of attempts have gone up dramatically. Why did they have to do a year's worth of research? That money could have used to help people. Out of all the Provinces, Quebec has the highest number of suicides per capita. There is a problem.
> nor the pdoc..
Well if the pdoc tells you that if you had partner and were sexually active then all would be well then YES, the pdoc is contributing to MY problem because nowhere in the DSM under the criteria for depression does it read "is not getting shagged three times a week". Walking out of his office with a prescription for sex is not all that helpful.
Tamara on this board was kind enough to seek out some studies that are being done in Ontario for me. A person, I don't even know did this for me. I haven't been able to follow up. Tamara emailed me and said my Pdoc should be doing it. I realised she is right and so I phoned him and told him about it. He told me to call and get the information from them. I can write clearly right now. But my speech is another thing. I can't find my words. I can't pick up that phone and call these people.
> it is the illness..
Which would be under control if all the above were in place which it isn't.
> try to find out waht it is that you do need...
> go from there..
> jI NEED MY BRAIN! That is what I need. So where do I go from here? Right back to beginning where I stated that I am classified as a genius.
I'm going in circles and I can't do it anymore.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:31:01
In reply to Hospital and Cytomel » Maxime, posted by barbaracat on March 31, 2005, at 16:16:52
Hi Barbara:
If I went to the hospital and said that I was suicidal I would be seen by a doctor and then by a social worker or psych nurse. They would then talk to the pdoc on call. Unless I am going to kill myself when I leave the hospital they will tell me to leave. I may not even be seen by a pdoc. I could lie and say "yes, when I go out the doors of the hospital I am going to "fill in the blank". But I am not going to lie. Of course if I was going psychotic or manic they would put me on a 24 hour hold. I have the unfortunate "luck" of seeming very together when I am really losing it. I had one pdoc when I lived in Alberta who finally realised it. When I would go into the hospital she would tell the pdoc in charge of my case to be cautious of that and not to be fooled. I miss her. She was a great pdoc. She was very caring and she did excellent psychotherapy with me.
I have asked my endo twice to put me on the cytomel in combination with the Synthroid. He won't do it. My pdoc called him and asked ... he won't do it. The only good thing is that he does like my TSH to be borderline hyperthyroid. Not that it does any good.
Thanks for your input Barbara. I appreciate it.
Maxi
> Hi Maxine,
> Ooh, my heart goes out to you. Sometimes it's so uncomfortable to be alive and to have a fumbling pdoc you don't have confidence in makes it seem even more bleak. I simply do not understand how some of these folks made it through the rigours of medical school.
>
> About hospitalization, I've been through 2, most recently late January. It was basically a Zen, minimalist experience, a time out of time fueled by plenty of lorazepam. Didn't 'help' me, but gave me a time out to reasses things, and I must admit, a hidden motive was to drive the screws of awareness into my husband's brain that things really have been that bad for me.
>
> If you think you need to be hospitalized, is it so different in Canada as in the US? We merely have to show up at the Emergency Room stating we're suicidal, and they have to admit you. No matter what you're financial status is, each state has money earmarked for this and it's usually better for the patient financially and the level of care than relying on what's allowed by insurance. This was told to me by a pretty open mental health care worker, that hospitals must take you and ER depts are the place to go. The fact that you're admitting you have plans to your current pdoc and he's not taking it seriously is cause for concern. There must be a way to find out for sure that you have this recourse if you need it.
>
> > As for the thyroid situation.
>
> **Thyroid, very very important, mucho important. Mine has been hypo most of my life and since starting Lithium, has bounced all over. I have fibromyalgia and the symptoms are identical to low thryoid. My TSH literally ping-pongs. Long story short, I've tried Armour and the others and the ratio of T3 is far too high for my bipolar anxiety in these natural formulations. What has worked very well is Synthroid with a small about (10mg) of Cytomel. I've had numerous trials of T4 alone and it just didn't work. T3 alone, ick, too much anxiety. But the two have been very stable and the fibro symtpoms are all but gone. My TSH is very low, skimming hyper, which is where I feel best.
>
> I really encourage you to insist on a trial of Cytomel. No matter what your doctor thinks of it, the important thing is what you think of it. Hang in there. - Barbara
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 1, 2005, at 10:54:20
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:18:39
yes you can maxime..
go around one more time..and then another..
we are all here to listen..
we understand..
look to the left of you , we are wondering around the track beside you.
j
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 10:58:54
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:18:39
Since yesterday, when all I'm really able to do is sit and soak my eyes from the surgery, I've been listening to the TV. I heard on the news that a new device is being tried for Bulemia. The pt has a device inserted [like a pacemaker] and it gradually stops people from wanting to purge. I know you have an ED, but I'm not sure what king. Anyway, I thought this might interest you. Oh, and most importantly they said they now know that it has a biological cause and not a mental cause and that's why AD's don't work. So progress seems to be being made. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 11:16:50
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 10:58:54
Hi Phillipa - I hope your eyes are feeling less tender today.
I don't purge. Never have. I have tried many times but I can't do it. I wonder if the device is to actually stop the person from physically throwing up. This would be most frightening for someone with bulimia. They would binge and then not be able to get rid of the food. Many people with bulimia don't even have to use their fingers or other object to make themselves throw up. They can just stand over the toilet and do it. Some would turn to anorexia and some would become compulsive overeaters and another percentage might be helped. I will have to do some research and see if I can find any information on it.
Thanks for the info.
Maxime
> Since yesterday, when all I'm really able to do is sit and soak my eyes from the surgery, I've been listening to the TV. I heard on the news that a new device is being tried for Bulemia. The pt has a device inserted [like a pacemaker] and it gradually stops people from wanting to purge. I know you have an ED, but I'm not sure what king. Anyway, I thought this might interest you. Oh, and most importantly they said they now know that it has a biological cause and not a mental cause and that's why AD's don't work. So progress seems to be being made. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 12:51:35
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 11:16:50
Maxime, They actually had a girl showing the devise that was implanted in her, and she said at first she used to purge about 3 times a day. With the devise she went down to twice a day, once a day, and now not at all. She felt fine and felt her eating disorder was "cured". Thanks for asking about me. I didn't sleep at all last night even with perococet and valium. I was full of bloody drainage today, but I had my hair washed and dressings changed this morning at the surgeons. Now I'm draining clear liquid from behind my ears. I need to lie down now and try to sleep. I took a tylenol with codeine. i felt i was already becoming addicted to the percocet as my hands were shaking and I don't feel well. Take care. Will try and come back on later. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by barbaracat on April 1, 2005, at 13:57:11
In reply to Re: Hospital and Cytomel » barbaracat, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:31:01
Maxine,
I forgot to add, 'don't expect an Endo to know a bloody thing about thyroid in the real world'. No endo I've ever seen 'believes in' cytomel. Well, guess what, I don't believe in endos! I feel so much better taking only 10mg of T3, so nyah nyah, to them!If your current primary care doc is intermeshed with the endo, he/she won't go over the endo's word from God proclamation about what you do or don't need. Can you find another primary care doc who perhaps doesn't know you or your 'problems' so intimately and might be willing to start fresh? Doctors become very prejudiced by patient as problem and it's hard to be seen as just a person after a while.
Can you perhaps see a naturopathic physician? I don't know if you have licensed naturopaths in Canada. You most likely will pay out of pocket, but they're usually not at all expensive and very very worthwhile. If you have to make a trip down south to the US to become a patient of a good naturopath, it may a drastic measure but getting your thyroid PERFECT is your #1 priority. I feel very strongly about this, knowing first hand what a bum thyroid can do to your body, mind, and soul. - Barbara
> I have asked my endo twice to put me on the cytomel in combination with the Synthroid. He won't do it. My pdoc called him and asked ... he won't do it. The only good thing is that he does like my TSH to be borderline hyperthyroid. Not that it does any good.
>
> Thanks for your input Barbara. I appreciate it.
>
> Maxi
>
>
> > Hi Maxine,
> > Ooh, my heart goes out to you. Sometimes it's so uncomfortable to be alive and to have a fumbling pdoc you don't have confidence in makes it seem even more bleak. I simply do not understand how some of these folks made it through the rigours of medical school.
> >
> > About hospitalization, I've been through 2, most recently late January. It was basically a Zen, minimalist experience, a time out of time fueled by plenty of lorazepam. Didn't 'help' me, but gave me a time out to reasses things, and I must admit, a hidden motive was to drive the screws of awareness into my husband's brain that things really have been that bad for me.
> >
> > If you think you need to be hospitalized, is it so different in Canada as in the US? We merely have to show up at the Emergency Room stating we're suicidal, and they have to admit you. No matter what you're financial status is, each state has money earmarked for this and it's usually better for the patient financially and the level of care than relying on what's allowed by insurance. This was told to me by a pretty open mental health care worker, that hospitals must take you and ER depts are the place to go. The fact that you're admitting you have plans to your current pdoc and he's not taking it seriously is cause for concern. There must be a way to find out for sure that you have this recourse if you need it.
> >
> > > As for the thyroid situation.
> >
> > **Thyroid, very very important, mucho important. Mine has been hypo most of my life and since starting Lithium, has bounced all over. I have fibromyalgia and the symptoms are identical to low thryoid. My TSH literally ping-pongs. Long story short, I've tried Armour and the others and the ratio of T3 is far too high for my bipolar anxiety in these natural formulations. What has worked very well is Synthroid with a small about (10mg) of Cytomel. I've had numerous trials of T4 alone and it just didn't work. T3 alone, ick, too much anxiety. But the two have been very stable and the fibro symtpoms are all but gone. My TSH is very low, skimming hyper, which is where I feel best.
> >
> > I really encourage you to insist on a trial of Cytomel. No matter what your doctor thinks of it, the important thing is what you think of it. Hang in there. - Barbara
>
>
Posted by TamaraJ on April 1, 2005, at 15:34:25
In reply to My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 12:50:41
Maxime,
I know this is going to sound very simplistic, but can your family doctor or gyn help you, even by running necessary blood tests (including even the basic thyroid test, but preferably a full thyroid panel )? The endocrinologist you are seeing sounds like a putz, particularly since you have had thyroid tests done that clearly indicate hypothyroidism. Just as an aside, a number of years ago, my best friend, was feeling run down, sleeping a lot, couldn't concentrate, was irritable, etc., and her gp (same gp as I had) tested her thyroid. Anyway, she was subclinical, but the gp said that it was time to start treating it, based on her symptoms and the results of the test. Within a couple of months of treatment, she was back to her old self. So, what I am getting at is - can you get in to see a gp, even if it is at a walk-in clinic, or even a gyn. And, don't even mention that you have seen an endo in the past. Also, your pdoc can request blood tests, and frankly, at this point, you might want to demand that he do so. Then you can take the results to either a gp, a gyn or a new endo (if you have lost confidence in your current endo). And, if you are concerned about expressing yourself verbally, you can always send your pdoc an e-mail or type something up and hand it to him when you see him, or take what you have typed up to the clinic. It is just a thought. It just pisses me off to see someone getting obviously sub-standard care.
My heart goes out to you Maxime. Don't hesitate to let me know if there is anything I can do.
Tamara
> I had another appt. today with my pdoc. He is grasping at straws now. He says there are many biochemical reasons why I am unable to tolerate my Parnate even at 10 mg however when I pressed him to tell me some he wasn't able to. I did tell him I tried to combine the Desipramine and the Parnate for a couple of days. He didn't freak out in fact he said he has done that before with patients. So now I am to take 25 mg of Desipramine 3 times a day. I don't think this is going to help me. I told him I was suicidal and I had plans. I told him I wasn't going to kill myself today or even this week but it would be soon. He said that we couldn't give up. Okay. But "we" aren't the one suffering. It's me. I can't believe he doesn't throw me into the hospital. Any other pdoc I have had would throw me into the hospital for being so suicidal. Maybe it's because he works in a psychiatric hospital and I am good shape compared to anyone he sees there. I'm glad. I have never really been helped by any of my hospitalizations except for when I went psychotic from Topomax and then Wellbutrin. I was so scared I wanted to be in the hospital. But I am not scared now.
>
> Maxime
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 15:54:44
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by TamaraJ on April 1, 2005, at 15:34:25
Hi. Well I started seeing an endo because my GP screwed up my thyroid (indirectly). I had a test in the fall of 2003 and the test came back hypothryoid. So she increased my synthroid slightly. By Christmas I was feeling worse. I called her and told her that I was sure my thryoid was messed up and I reminded her that I was taking Dilantin (as a mood stabiliser... have since stopped). I told her that I read Dilantin can prevent the absorption of Synthroid. She said she it was not true. In January of 2004 I went to see and demanded that a blood test be taken. She called me and my TSH was up to 25! So that is when I decided I should see an endo. That why I knew when I went to see him that my TSH was 25. I saw another endo that my pdoc set me up to see. I saw him once and then for my next 2 appointments he cancelled 30 minutes before each one. I had to take half a day off work just to get to the hospital because it was on the other side of town. I arrived and the receptionist/assistant said that she had tried to call me a half hour ago. UGH! He had an emergency to take care of! I mean this man is not a surgeon. What emergency could there be? Then it happened the second time. After that I just didn't show up for my fourth appointment because I could not waste another half day of work.
Maybe I will play the role of hypochodriac when I see him on the 11th. Maybe I will beg him to order tests so that my mind is at ease. I will tell him it keeps me awake at night worrying about it. I'm already "a psych patient" to him. I might as well act like one.
Sigh.
Maxime
> Maxime,
>
> I know this is going to sound very simplistic, but can your family doctor or gyn help you, even by running necessary blood tests (including even the basic thyroid test, but preferably a full thyroid panel )? The endocrinologist you are seeing sounds like a putz, particularly since you have had thyroid tests done that clearly indicate hypothyroidism. Just as an aside, a number of years ago, my best friend, was feeling run down, sleeping a lot, couldn't concentrate, was irritable, etc., and her gp (same gp as I had) tested her thyroid. Anyway, she was subclinical, but the gp said that it was time to start treating it, based on her symptoms and the results of the test. Within a couple of months of treatment, she was back to her old self. So, what I am getting at is - can you get in to see a gp, even if it is at a walk-in clinic, or even a gyn. And, don't even mention that you have seen an endo in the past. Also, your pdoc can request blood tests, and frankly, at this point, you might want to demand that he do so. Then you can take the results to either a gp, a gyn or a new endo (if you have lost confidence in your current endo). And, if you are concerned about expressing yourself verbally, you can always send your pdoc an e-mail or type something up and hand it to him when you see him, or take what you have typed up to the clinic. It is just a thought. It just pisses me off to see someone getting obviously sub-standard care.
>
> My heart goes out to you Maxime. Don't hesitate to let me know if there is anything I can do.
>
> Tamara
>
> > I had another appt. today with my pdoc. He is grasping at straws now. He says there are many biochemical reasons why I am unable to tolerate my Parnate even at 10 mg however when I pressed him to tell me some he wasn't able to. I did tell him I tried to combine the Desipramine and the Parnate for a couple of days. He didn't freak out in fact he said he has done that before with patients. So now I am to take 25 mg of Desipramine 3 times a day. I don't think this is going to help me. I told him I was suicidal and I had plans. I told him I wasn't going to kill myself today or even this week but it would be soon. He said that we couldn't give up. Okay. But "we" aren't the one suffering. It's me. I can't believe he doesn't throw me into the hospital. Any other pdoc I have had would throw me into the hospital for being so suicidal. Maybe it's because he works in a psychiatric hospital and I am good shape compared to anyone he sees there. I'm glad. I have never really been helped by any of my hospitalizations except for when I went psychotic from Topomax and then Wellbutrin. I was so scared I wanted to be in the hospital. But I am not scared now.
> >
> > Maxime
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 16:14:32
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by TamaraJ on April 1, 2005, at 15:34:25
Maxime, Your TSH is 25! When mine was 22 it made me so anxious that the pdoc I was working with gave me a shot of 2mg of ativan IM. Instantly I felt "normal". That was the beginning of my first hospitalization. When they adjusted my thyroid medication I felt well. Went home, and carried on as usual. I never felt tired, just panic. Are we all so different that one feels like sleeping all the time and the other is a steady state of panic? Every time I saw a different doctor they couldn't believe my reflexes and questioned the dx of hypothyroidism. But when a complete panel was run it was always normal. You mentioned a lower range of normal in one of your earlier posts didn't you? If not blame my ignorance on the drugs. But my old pdoc wanted me to be on the low end. He said it would help depression. Ever hear anything like this? Could one of us please go to medical school and devote a practice just for women. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 17:36:26
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by justyourlaugh on April 1, 2005, at 10:54:20
I would prefer if we could do it relay style. One person can't do this on her own. I need a rest from it all.
Unless you've walked in my size 2 1/2 shoes you don't know what it's like to be me or what I have been through. And since most people on this board have feet that would not fit into my shoes, no one will ever understand.
Maxime
> yes you can maxime..
> go around one more time..and then another..
> we are all here to listen..
> we understand..
> look to the left of you , we are wondering around the track beside you.
> j
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 17:43:05
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 16:14:32
I can't believe you felt anxious. I couldn't move. I had trouble getting out of bed because my joints hurt so much. I was sleeping all day.
My endo likes to keep mine between 1-2 just above hyperthyroidism. It is suppose to help depression to have it at that (low) level.
Maxime
> Maxime, Your TSH is 25! When mine was 22 it made me so anxious that the pdoc I was working with gave me a shot of 2mg of ativan IM. Instantly I felt "normal". That was the beginning of my first hospitalization. When they adjusted my thyroid medication I felt well. Went home, and carried on as usual. I never felt tired, just panic. Are we all so different that one feels like sleeping all the time and the other is a steady state of panic? Every time I saw a different doctor they couldn't believe my reflexes and questioned the dx of hypothyroidism. But when a complete panel was run it was always normal. You mentioned a lower range of normal in one of your earlier posts didn't you? If not blame my ignorance on the drugs. But my old pdoc wanted me to be on the low end. He said it would help depression. Ever hear anything like this? Could one of us please go to medical school and devote a practice just for women. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 19:40:17
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 17:43:05
I know it doesn't make any sense does it? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 21:22:50
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 19:40:17
> I know it doesn't make any sense does it? Fondly, Phillipa
No it makes perfect sense actually. Hypothyroidism mimics depression. By keeping you close to hyperthyroidism, most of the symptoms should be kept at bay.
At least I know when I am depressed that it is my depression at not my thyroid. Although in this case I don't known because even though my tests will come back as normal I have other symptoms of hypothyroidism. Sigh.
Maxime
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 1, 2005, at 22:18:05
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » justyourlaugh, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 17:36:26
wow maxime...
i was trying to be kind..understanding..
yes yes yes..alot of us do understand..
i do not try to know what it is like to be you?
but we all know what pain is...
j
Posted by TamaraJ on April 2, 2005, at 10:23:55
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 15:54:44
Hi Maxime,
By Christmas I was feeling worse. I called her and told her that I was sure my thryoid was messed up and I reminded her that I was taking Dilantin (as a mood stabiliser... have since stopped). I told her that I read Dilantin can prevent the absorption of Synthroid. She said she it was not true.
~~ God, I just don't understand why doctors don't listen to patients and trust them to have done some kind of research to inform themselves about the side effects and interactions associate with any meds they may be taking! It's either incompetence, apathy or arrogance - or a combination of the three. And, it is always the patient who pays the price. So sad. I am sorry you had to deal with that. It shouldn't happen!I saw another endo that my pdoc set me up to see. I saw him once and then for my next 2 appointments he cancelled 30 minutes before each one. I had to take half a day off work just to get to the hospital because it was on the other side of town. I arrived and the receptionist/assistant said that she had tried to call me a half hour ago. UGH! He had an emergency to take care of! I mean this man is not a surgeon. What emergency could there be? Then it happened the second time. After that I just didn't show up for my fourth appointment because I could not waste another half day of work.
>
~~ Do you think you can get an appointment with him now? It might be worth a try.> Maybe I will play the role of hypochodriac when I see him on the 11th. Maybe I will beg him to order tests so that my mind is at ease. I will tell him it keeps me awake at night worrying about it. I'm already "a psych patient" to him. I might as well act like one.
>
~~ As distasteful as it is to do so, if it means you will get the tests and treatment you need and deserve, then so be it. I, too, would hate to have to resort to such a thing, but if it means that your concerns will be dealt with, then all I can say is 'play the game', at least long enough to get the thyroid problems addressed.> Sigh.
>
~~ Sigh is right :-(Tamara
>
Posted by barbaracat on April 2, 2005, at 12:58:27
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 15:54:44
Hypothyroid can most definitely cause anxiety, panic, shakyness, hot flashes. Weird when you think that it also can cause tiredness, sluggishness, coldness. Basically, it shuts down the cells' mitochrondria from producing energy and that can take the form of so many symptoms, depending on what cells are involved. Thyroid is needed for the whole estrogen pathway and estrogen is required to make neurotransmitters. It shuts down digestion. It's needed for regulation of the temperature sensor in the hypothalamus, so sometimes you're hot, others cold. It's all interconnected in ways that are tailor made for our private hells.
The highest my TSH ever got was 18 and I can't believe how awful I felt. Deep joint pains, an inner damp chill and cold sweats, panic and depression, everything seeming overwhelming, fuzzy thinking, chronic constipation. This is not a good thing for someone prone to bipolar depression. It doesn't take much to swing me into a bleak frenzied despair and hypothyroidism is a very good stressor.
Even if your TSH is now showing in the low range and you're still have symptoms, basic thyroidology tells us that there may be a dysfunction in the cells' ability to convert T4 to the active T3, so yes, there may be enough T4 in the blood due to Synthroid, but the cells are not making the best use of it. Enter Cytomel! Made all the difference to me.
You also need to consider your adrenals. Many conventional doctors poo-poo adrendal fatigue, but it's a very real condition. Stress over a long time can cause the adrenals to overproduce cortisol which leads to all kinds of problems down the line including damage to the adrenal glands themselves. These glands are the secondary producers of the sex hormones and thyroid. Word has it that if the adrenals are not brought back to a decent functioning order, the rest of the the hormones are going to falter.
Maxine, it sounds to me that you are in a loop of clueless doctors and are going around in fruitless circles. I'm totally unaware of the Canadian health system, but I would hope you could jettison these jerks and find someone else. Getting cancelled at the last minute two times would be quite enough for me, thank you very much, and said putz would receive a very pointed letter informing him of my feelings.
A TSH of 25 calls for immediate action, like serious hup-to-it wow! let's get moving! Your posts and sense of desperation that comes through is very typical of someone in the throes of a serious thyroid imbalance. I am not taking this lightly. I have walked in your shoes and I quite simply urge you to find and demand better care. You need to stop wasting your precious energy trying to convince these people who seem to be missing the basic rudiments of Endocrinology 101, especially your endo.
I totally agree with Tamara. An OB-Gyn may be your best bet. The one I've recently found has been a treasure. She understands hormones, all of them, she understand how absolutely crucial it is to have them in balance. Otherwise, all the pills we take to make us sane are just a waste of money. In other words, you DO NOT need an endo. I think you'll find alot of concurrence that endos are pretty worthless for standard thyroid problems. I don't know why this is, I think if you have thryoid cancer, or some extreme desease state, an endo is your man - they can operate and radiate. But for the rest of us, all they can seem to do is prescribe Synthroid.
In my book, two basic things are needed for life - 1. energy, 2. hope. If you don't have enough life force, energy, everthing is hard and you lose hope. So put that brilliant mind to work to get yourself a good health team and kiss these jokers goodbuy.
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 16:40:21
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by barbaracat on April 2, 2005, at 12:58:27
Barbaracat, What is the name of your book? I didn't realize you were an author. I knew you knew your stuff, but didn't know the extent. I've fought with endocrinologists, etc for years and as long as "your complete thyroid panel is WNL" you're okay. As I've said in previous Threads, one of the things that struck me when I worked as a psych RN in the hospital, were the number of pts who had thyroid problems. They were getting blamed for being noncompiant with meds, complainers, etc. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 2, 2005, at 18:30:32
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by TamaraJ on April 2, 2005, at 10:23:55
Hi Tamara:
I really don't want to see that other Endo because he felt that my doctor was overtreating my thryoid (I saw him after my appointment with the other endo. I had made two appointments to see who I would like better). So I don't want to see an endo who wants my TSH to be higher than 3-4. Also I told him how my ankles hurt and other joints and he said that joint pain is not a symptom of hypothyroidism!! That is such BS. No, this guy did not take me seriously.
I am stuck with guy I have.
Maxime
> Hi Maxime,
>
> By Christmas I was feeling worse. I called her and told her that I was sure my thryoid was messed up and I reminded her that I was taking Dilantin (as a mood stabiliser... have since stopped). I told her that I read Dilantin can prevent the absorption of Synthroid. She said she it was not true.
>
> ~~ God, I just don't understand why doctors don't listen to patients and trust them to have done some kind of research to inform themselves about the side effects and interactions associate with any meds they may be taking! It's either incompetence, apathy or arrogance - or a combination of the three. And, it is always the patient who pays the price. So sad. I am sorry you had to deal with that. It shouldn't happen!
>
> I saw another endo that my pdoc set me up to see. I saw him once and then for my next 2 appointments he cancelled 30 minutes before each one. I had to take half a day off work just to get to the hospital because it was on the other side of town. I arrived and the receptionist/assistant said that she had tried to call me a half hour ago. UGH! He had an emergency to take care of! I mean this man is not a surgeon. What emergency could there be? Then it happened the second time. After that I just didn't show up for my fourth appointment because I could not waste another half day of work.
> >
> ~~ Do you think you can get an appointment with him now? It might be worth a try.
>
> > Maybe I will play the role of hypochodriac when I see him on the 11th. Maybe I will beg him to order tests so that my mind is at ease. I will tell him it keeps me awake at night worrying about it. I'm already "a psych patient" to him. I might as well act like one.
> >
> ~~ As distasteful as it is to do so, if it means you will get the tests and treatment you need and deserve, then so be it. I, too, would hate to have to resort to such a thing, but if it means that your concerns will be dealt with, then all I can say is 'play the game', at least long enough to get the thyroid problems addressed.
>
> > Sigh.
> >
> ~~ Sigh is right :-(
>
> Tamara
> >
Posted by Maxime on April 2, 2005, at 18:47:46
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by barbaracat on April 2, 2005, at 12:58:27
Barbara, thank you so much. I agree with you. Right now, for me to find an OB-Gyn is next to impossible. There are not enough in Montreal to go around. Really. Actually we have such a crisis on our hands here. There are thousands of Montrealers who cannot get a GP. As a result the ERs are always full. The ERs are so full that patients lie in gurneys in the halls. I remember my PDOC in Calgary said she had never seen anything like it before when she came to Montreal to work at hospital for a year.
My pdoc wants me to have ECT. There is no way I will ever have it. But can you imagine if I said "yes" and all my problems were endocrine? Jolting my body with an electrical current isn't going to help things.
I know more about the thyroid than I do the adrenal glands. I see my endo on the 11 so I have until then to learn all I can. I told the endo I thought I might have a conversion problem. He just laughed. He asked me if I had read about it on the internet. I said "no I read about it in one of the 6 books I have read about the thyroid and hypothyroidism". Do they expect to remain in the dark? Don't they want us to be informed?
Thanks for listening.
Maxime
> Hypothyroid can most definitely cause anxiety, panic, shakyness, hot flashes. Weird when you think that it also can cause tiredness, sluggishness, coldness. Basically, it shuts down the cells' mitochrondria from producing energy and that can take the form of so many symptoms, depending on what cells are involved. Thyroid is needed for the whole estrogen pathway and estrogen is required to make neurotransmitters. It shuts down digestion. It's needed for regulation of the temperature sensor in the hypothalamus, so sometimes you're hot, others cold. It's all interconnected in ways that are tailor made for our private hells.
>
> The highest my TSH ever got was 18 and I can't believe how awful I felt. Deep joint pains, an inner damp chill and cold sweats, panic and depression, everything seeming overwhelming, fuzzy thinking, chronic constipation. This is not a good thing for someone prone to bipolar depression. It doesn't take much to swing me into a bleak frenzied despair and hypothyroidism is a very good stressor.
>
> Even if your TSH is now showing in the low range and you're still have symptoms, basic thyroidology tells us that there may be a dysfunction in the cells' ability to convert T4 to the active T3, so yes, there may be enough T4 in the blood due to Synthroid, but the cells are not making the best use of it. Enter Cytomel! Made all the difference to me.
>
> You also need to consider your adrenals. Many conventional doctors poo-poo adrendal fatigue, but it's a very real condition. Stress over a long time can cause the adrenals to overproduce cortisol which leads to all kinds of problems down the line including damage to the adrenal glands themselves. These glands are the secondary producers of the sex hormones and thyroid. Word has it that if the adrenals are not brought back to a decent functioning order, the rest of the the hormones are going to falter.
>
> Maxine, it sounds to me that you are in a loop of clueless doctors and are going around in fruitless circles. I'm totally unaware of the Canadian health system, but I would hope you could jettison these jerks and find someone else. Getting cancelled at the last minute two times would be quite enough for me, thank you very much, and said putz would receive a very pointed letter informing him of my feelings.
>
> A TSH of 25 calls for immediate action, like serious hup-to-it wow! let's get moving! Your posts and sense of desperation that comes through is very typical of someone in the throes of a serious thyroid imbalance. I am not taking this lightly. I have walked in your shoes and I quite simply urge you to find and demand better care. You need to stop wasting your precious energy trying to convince these people who seem to be missing the basic rudiments of Endocrinology 101, especially your endo.
>
> I totally agree with Tamara. An OB-Gyn may be your best bet. The one I've recently found has been a treasure. She understands hormones, all of them, she understand how absolutely crucial it is to have them in balance. Otherwise, all the pills we take to make us sane are just a waste of money. In other words, you DO NOT need an endo. I think you'll find alot of concurrence that endos are pretty worthless for standard thyroid problems. I don't know why this is, I think if you have thryoid cancer, or some extreme desease state, an endo is your man - they can operate and radiate. But for the rest of us, all they can seem to do is prescribe Synthroid.
>
> In my book, two basic things are needed for life - 1. energy, 2. hope. If you don't have enough life force, energy, everthing is hard and you lose hope. So put that brilliant mind to work to get yourself a good health team and kiss these jokers goodbuy.
>
Posted by Maxime on April 2, 2005, at 18:50:16
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » barbaracat, posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 16:40:21
Um, Phillipa. "In my book" is often used as an expression. I don't think Barbara has actually written one. But if she has I will run out and buy it. :)
Maxime
> Barbaracat, What is the name of your book? I didn't realize you were an author. I knew you knew your stuff, but didn't know the extent. I've fought with endocrinologists, etc for years and as long as "your complete thyroid panel is WNL" you're okay. As I've said in previous Threads, one of the things that struck me when I worked as a psych RN in the hospital, were the number of pts who had thyroid problems. They were getting blamed for being noncompiant with meds, complainers, etc. Fondly, Phillipa
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.