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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 9:41:06
How come it's us the pts that do all the research on psych drug, alternative tx's, and have to tell them about them? Are they so blind that they really believe all the drug companies tell them? What about the docs that take meds too? Don't they experience side effects and wonder why also? It's been on my mind. What do you think? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Chris O on March 9, 2005, at 18:23:19
In reply to Why Don't Pdocs Know Meds?, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 9:41:06
Phillipa:
I hear what you're saying about pdocs seeming clueless about alternative treatments and the intricacies of each psych drug. It's almost as if...they just don't care or...are too overwhelmed to be so very present with mentally ill patients?
I have been thinking about this lately too. I almost think that...to be a psychiatrist...there needs to be a special test, a special type of person to do this job. It's actually a very spiritual profession, something that maybe a only person totally devoted to helping others and treating each person as a distinct individual can do. Not everyone, not many can do that, methinks.
It takes incredible brain chemistry, incredible empathy, and incredible, almost psychotic, dedication. Sorry, but not many of the psychiatrists I have seen have had that. To me, it just seemed llke they were doing a job, clocking in at 8:00am, clocking out at 5:00pm, meeting with most patients for fifteen minutes at most, doing their best with the limited knowledge they can gain from that very limited interaction.
Not to dis the very bright people that are able to do this job, but...I've never felt very satisfied with the pdocs I've seen either.Chris
> How come it's us the pts that do all the research on psych drug, alternative tx's, and have to tell them about them? Are they so blind that they really believe all the drug companies tell them? What about the docs that take meds too? Don't they experience side effects and wonder why also? It's been on my mind. What do you think? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by krybrahaha78 on March 9, 2005, at 20:07:06
In reply to Don't know, but it's annoying » Phillipa, posted by Chris O on March 9, 2005, at 18:23:19
yes---alot of p-docs dont have a clue. I took one of my clients to their psyc appt. (i work with adults with autism) and i asked the doc if she recommended putting my client on an antidepressant for his ocd---then she says "oh he is already on one, its chlorpromazine, which is generic Anafranil" I spoke up and told her that it was generic thorazine not anafranil. She didnt believe me at first and had to look it up and then she just felt stupid. Come on, its sad when we know these drugs better than the doctors do.
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 20:22:40
In reply to Re: Don't know, but it's annoying, posted by krybrahaha78 on March 9, 2005, at 20:07:06
Did you know that an RN is responsible for a doctor's med orders? We have to know both the Brand and generic names, Rx'd doses and when to give. If he writes an order wrong it is up to the nurse to call the doctor and straighten it out. As well as work as an RN, I also did malpractice suits. Phillipa
Posted by sedona on March 9, 2005, at 21:22:23
In reply to Why Don't Pdocs Know Meds?, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 9:41:06
I know what you are saying. I have had a psychiatric nurse and a psychiatrist for drugs. The psychiatric nurse left her practice to become a drug rep, which says a bit about her. My psychiatrist that I like a bit more though also seems to get 95% of his drug information from the studies done by the drug companies. He did give me a drug that made me totally suicidal for the two months I took it. When I called to ask him if the obsession with suicide could be a side-effect, he simply said he had never heard of it. Months later I brought it up again and apparently he had eventually read the side-effect profile which plainly listed suicidality. It's like they both lacked the ability to question the authority of the drug companies. They never learned how to be a critical thinker. The nurse was even on an antidepressant, but since it worked well for her with no side-effects she trusted the companies and their info, and instead questioned her patients.
I'll stop now, because I could complain about this forever.
> How come it's us the pts that do all the research on psych drug, alternative tx's, and have to tell them about them? Are they so blind that they really believe all the drug companies tell them? What about the docs that take meds too? Don't they experience side effects and wonder why also? It's been on my mind. What do you think? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Cecilia on March 11, 2005, at 3:03:45
In reply to Re: Why Don't Pdocs Know Meds? » Phillipa, posted by sedona on March 9, 2005, at 21:22:23
I agree with what everyone has said. Regular doctors have some excuse for their ignorance because they may prescribe hundreds of different drugs, but pdocs have to know only a few dozen. Cecilia
Posted by WeeWilly on March 12, 2005, at 11:52:20
In reply to Re: Why Don't Pdocs Know Meds?, posted by Cecilia on March 11, 2005, at 3:03:45
If anyone claims they know the mode of action of any AD let alone combinations of ADs is lying.Sure there are individuals that are good at baffling with BS. I for many years thought the mental health industry had an understanding of what caused mental disorders. What causes mental disorders is not known and AD's modes of action are unkown. It's a sad fact that the mental health industry is still in the dark ages.There is very little incentive for pharmaceutical companies or pdocs to understand the biochemistry of mental disorders. I could go on and on with the reality of the situation but it is just .............. depressing. Sorry for the rant. Best wishes
Posted by sedona on March 12, 2005, at 12:23:03
In reply to Absolutely no one knows?, posted by WeeWilly on March 12, 2005, at 11:52:20
I completely agree with you. I am always skeptical if a doctor says something like "it's just a chemical imbalance", or "you don't have enough serotonin" etc...It usually makes me feel as though they are coercing me to use a drug. When you take an SSRI, you have more serotonin within hours, so it's the other actions that take place over several weeks that help the depression. And they don't know how these drugs work or exactly what those actions are. I much prefer doctors who are honest and can say that yes - some of these drugs work for some people, but we don't really know why. I'm just skeptical in general I suppose, but especially of docotors who try to push a lot of drugs and know little about them.
Posted by reefer on March 14, 2005, at 11:55:41
In reply to Why Don't Pdocs Know Meds?, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 9:41:06
My experience is that the older docs 50+ dont have any interest in learning about the new drugs so they use the same old drugs they are used to using. Also at the time they studied to become doctors there wasn't nearly as much knowledge about the brain we have today. My mother is almost 60 years old and she is a doctor, she is not working in the psych field though and that's what she says at least. And then we have the younger docs, they have more knowledge about newer drugs which they wont prescribe because either they are afraid of using new drugs because they have no one(senior doc) to ask when patient complaints about this and that. Or they wont prescribe a drug because it's addictive and from the people i know studying to become doctors are trained to treat anyone asking for a benzo or close relative(the three Z's) as an addict. I once met a young doctor and asked him for Zopiclone to take on a as needed basis before exams. He said he could prescribe <sedative antihistamine>. And i went, but that will make me even more tired the next day, make my memory bad, give me poor concentration etc.... So i said Ambien or Sonata would be ok too. He just gave me a nasty smile saying no. He didn't even have to say no. The nasty smile was a huge no. So i left and instead i asked my mom to prescribe me some Zopiclone.
Posted by stargazer on March 15, 2005, at 0:41:21
In reply to Re: Why Don't Pdocs Know Meds?, posted by reefer on March 14, 2005, at 11:55:41
As many times as I ask my doc how a drug works, 9 out of 10 times he'll say "I don't know" It used to annoy me but now I realize he's being honest. Sometimes he give me a gray, fuzzy answer and lose me in the explanation and then I'm sorry I asked in the first place.
Plus if you read about these drugs on this site you will know more than the doc anyway so you really don't have to ask the question at all unless you want to see how much the doc knows or doesn't know.
Bottom line... as much as my doc knows or doesn't know about how these drugs work he is the one I trust to choose which medication is the right one to try next.
Posted by Muffinhead on March 15, 2005, at 17:11:57
In reply to Because they don't know, posted by stargazer on March 15, 2005, at 0:41:21
> As many times as I ask my doc how a drug works, 9 out of 10 times he'll say "I don't know" It used to annoy me but now I realize he's being honest. Sometimes he give me a gray, fuzzy answer and lose me in the explanation and then I'm sorry I asked in the first place.
>
> Plus if you read about these drugs on this site you will know more than the doc anyway so you really don't have to ask the question at all unless you want to see how much the doc knows or doesn't know.
>
> Bottom line... as much as my doc knows or doesn't know about how these drugs work he is the one I trust to choose which medication is the right one to try next.You know, I'm glad to hear that you trust your doctor, because so many don't, but I have to ask the question: if you are openly admitting that your doctor doesn't know and you're getting your information about meds from other sources, then what do you need the doctor for? See, I only ask this because this has been my experience: I was paying $90 a visit to a "medical professional", no, THREE "medical professionals" who could only recommend medications and have me take them to see how they worked for me...you know the trial and error thing, being the human guinea pig. And all they can do is ask: "Now how are you feeling today? Better? Worse?" Couldn't I do that myself and save myself loads of money rather than blow it on doctors who don't know any better than I do? Aren't I the best judge of what's going on in my body? As you can see, my experience with doctors has been a tainted one!
Posted by katia on March 16, 2005, at 14:44:33
In reply to Re: Because they don't know » stargazer, posted by Muffinhead on March 15, 2005, at 17:11:57
This has actually been my main concern and gripe lately. I feel like my pdoc doesn't really know much and I feel vulnerable and a bit of an idiot at times, like, why am I taking all these meds just b/c they say to?
My current concern is I'm trying to decide whether to come off Paxil or not. I tried a month ago and went through terrible w/drawals. It wasn't just the physical stuff, like shocks and nauseous as it was my crazy mood swings, irritability and suicidal thoughts. I went back on it just to stop the w/drawal. I talked to me pdoc about it and he doesn't know if it's w/drawal or not. Come on.....of course it's w/drawal! It made me realize i have to take the matter into my own hands...
What good is he? He gives me free meds samples and cheap meds from Canada.
That's about it.
Katia
Posted by Muffinhead on March 16, 2005, at 16:50:45
In reply to Re: Because they don't know » Muffinhead, posted by katia on March 16, 2005, at 14:44:33
I feel your pain, Katia! Did you try to go off cold turkey? I am in the process of weaning off of Effexor XR, but I'm doing it gradually and in small increments, and I am supplementing with a purer brand name of St. John's Wort. Perhaps that's what you need to do...wean off gradually and find something to help with the withdrawal symptoms.
Posted by katia on March 16, 2005, at 19:12:47
In reply to Re: Because they don't know » katia, posted by Muffinhead on March 16, 2005, at 16:50:45
> I feel your pain, Katia! Did you try to go off cold turkey? I am in the process of weaning off of Effexor XR, but I'm doing it gradually and in small increments, and I am supplementing with a purer brand name of St. John's Wort. Perhaps that's what you need to do...wean off gradually and find something to help with the withdrawal symptoms.
Yup, that's what I've been doing - weening and my SJW brand is the best of the best.
Katia
This is the end of the thread.
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