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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Jeroen on March 8, 2005, at 14:50:06
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by ed_uk on March 8, 2005, at 5:25:38
man, it cures me 100% this drug seroquel, but i get psychotic on it... this isnt normal anymore
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2005, at 16:42:00
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by Jeroen on March 8, 2005, at 14:50:06
Jeroen, you can't take a drug once, up the dose, down the dose, not take the dose, and expect to see a response. You must be consistent. Do as Ed has instructed you to do until you see your pdoc. As you have said it does help you. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2005, at 23:37:41
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by Jeroen on March 7, 2005, at 13:54:25
> im ok now, i am bit suicidal but i am planning to try the seroquel a good try, i feel almost normal and i only took 75 mg but not long enough because of the psychotic anxiety
>
> if this fails i will terminate my life
Terminating now is illogical. You have now established that a biological intervention has produced a significant positive effect. There are yet are many drugs and a virtual limitless number of combinations left for you to try.Sorry, but it is too late for you terminate. You have already proved that you are treatable.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2005, at 23:49:49
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by Jeroen on March 8, 2005, at 14:50:06
> man, it cures me 100% this drug seroquel, but i get psychotic on it... this isnt normal anymore
I believe that the word "psychotic" is often used inappropriately. Let's get down to the bottom line and answer a few questions. Try not to use labels or diagnostic terms when answering them. Be as detailed as possible. The more objective your observations are, the better one can make recommendations as to what treaments are candidates to treat your condition.
What are you experiencing?What are you thinking about?
How long have you been experiencing these things?
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 5:07:37
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself » Jeroen, posted by SLS on March 8, 2005, at 23:49:49
i experience, i dont feel myself on the street when people are passing by
7 years now
the only medicine i start feeling like myelf is seroquel, i even took it by accident
but 22 days on it, i feel high on it, when i was worrying about stuff in the hospital i almost got a psychotic anxiety attacki, i was scared of everything and coudnt control it
Posted by SLS on March 9, 2005, at 6:41:45
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 5:07:37
Hi.
> i experience, i dont feel myself on the street when people are passing by
It is possible that you are experiencing what is known as depersonalization and perhaps derealization.
1. Do you ever get the feeling like nothing around you is real?
2. Do you feel like you are watching yourself as if you were above yourself looking down?
These things are the result of severe chronic anxiety and probably coupled with depression. As unreal as things can seem, this is not psychosis.
> 7 years now
That is a horrendous amount of time to suffer such a painful and disorienting state. If it were me, I know that I would have considered many times that self-terminating would be a very rational thing to do. You should be commended for persevering as long as you have.
> the only medicine i start feeling like myelf is seroquel, i even took it by accident.
Things happen that way quite often with these illnesses and medications. I am greatly relieved to hear that you should have had such an accident. You deserved a lucky break for a change.
> but 22 days on it, i feel high on it, when i was worrying about stuff in the hospital i almost got a psychotic anxiety attacki, i was scared of everything and coudnt control itI think you might feel better from:
1. Increase the dosage of Seroquel.
2. Adding a drug like Klonopin. I might be wrong in my choice, but it sounds like adding one more drug should take care of any residual anxiety.
3. Switching to Zyprexa.
4. Psychotherapy. Even if your condition is 100% biological, it will have distorted your thinking for so long, that your psyche has been affected negatively. You must have a hell of a mess to clean up. Deciding to seek psychotherapy is a sign of strength and self-improvement rather than weakness.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 9:36:09
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 5:07:37
>i almost got a psychotic anxiety attacki, i was scared of everything and coudnt control it
Have you had similar anxiety attacks before, when you weren't taking Seroquel?
Ed.
Posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 9:47:31
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself » Jeroen, posted by SLS on March 9, 2005, at 6:41:45
i think its schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder, it started at age 14 years old, ive been untreated with no help for like 5 years then at age 20 i started geodon 20 mg for a period of 3 weeks, it gave me tardive dyskinesia, uncontrolled eye movement and blinking
im 6 months of the dog po*p (sorry bob) and still have it, bitt less but it still bothering me a lot
ive read 50% who take GEODON get tardive dyskinesia, even after taking is several weeks
i fel in love with a girl, right when i got this TD she wanted to make love with her, at that time i coudnt keep my eyes open
and i had to decline her request, because in this condition i dont want to make love with anyone!!!i felt really good at the age of 14 years old i went out a lot in weekends, had very much fun with friend, then it suddenly happened, i felt watched, was scared to go out, the fun was GONE!
things in school went from good to evil, worse and very bad
i could have a kick *ss youth but no, something bad happened to me, i almost got an answer to my problem, then this TD happened to me and destroyed my social life..
its the second time my luck is destroyed, first my youth, because i could have gone out a lot and had a lucky happy life, normal life
now age 20 everything was ok i started geodon and now another happyness with this girl has been destroyed..
as you can see, i have reasons to kill myself, i am even affraid to tell my doctor i got sick at the age of 14 years old, now that im 20 my future has been detroyed aswell by taking geodon
she like me and we could have had a nice relationship for a while
i dont want to kill myself yet... im considering going to hospital and try clozaril but my doc said yesterday, that this medicine has too much negative things and hes not behind it..but what if my TD gets reversed? what are my odds?
i really do beleive my odds are 0% to get better because what is happening to me MUST be a test from god or i must have done something wrong!
Posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 10:02:36
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 9:47:31
no never had such attacks before, its the seroquel im sure of that
i felt really bad on Abilify, geodon (of course what a surprise), Risperdal (felt like a bag of sh*t lying forgotten in the sea, felt drugged) but 20 times less the the geodon i took.as you can see my happyness is been blocked and desroyed again.
life is not easy but cmon what if all the good part has been taken intentionally????
Posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 10:09:03
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 9:47:31
Hi Jeroen :-)
Please will you describe the panic attack that you had a few days ago? I keep asking you but you always ignore me.
>i really do beleive my odds are 0% to get better
I think there is a good chance that you will get better, but you will have to give each treatment a fair trial. You have said that you felt better on Seroquel, why don't you try it again?
>what is happening to me MUST be a test from god or i must have done something wrong!
I certainly don't think you've done anything wrong. I don't believe in God so I won't comment on that.
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 10:37:26
In reply to To ED UK, posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 10:02:36
Hey J!
>no never had such attacks before, its the seroquel im sure of that
I think it might have been because you were taking it once daily rather than twice daily. You could have had a 'panic attack' when the drug was wearing off, it could have been a withdrawal symptom.
What time of day did you have the attack?
How do you feel about trying Seroquel again but taking it twice daily? - probably a small dose in the morning and a larger dose in the evening.
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 10:37:57
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 10:09:03
PS. Thanks for answering my question!
Ed.
Posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 11:19:25
In reply to Re: To ED UK, posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 10:37:26
like 3 PM i had lot of stress at the hospital, i barelly made it outside
i had anxiety feeling i coudnt trust anyone, scared of everything and everyone
it was psychotic i think
now that i no longer take it i dont experience that
Posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 12:08:16
In reply to Re: To ED UK, posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 11:19:25
Hi J,
>like 3 PM i had lot of stress at the hospital, i barelly made it outside
It sounds like the attack might have been caused by the stress of being at the hospital. What do you think?
Ed.
Posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 12:13:27
In reply to Re: To ED UK, posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 12:08:16
yes but think, even outside hospital i can get stress so i will get an attack there aswell
im very dissapointed in myself, very
Posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 12:31:02
In reply to Re: To ED UK, posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 12:13:27
Hi J,
>yes but think, even outside hospital i can get stress so i will get an attack there aswell
Perhaps you need an anti-anxiety drug to take alongside the Seroquel.
Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 13:34:58
In reply to Re: To ED UK, posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 12:31:02
Jeroen, You are getting a lot of good advise. I totally trust both Ed's and Scott's advise. They are VERY knowledgeable about drugs and their side effects. Did Ed tell you he is in pharmacy school? I don't think he'll mind me telling you this. It really sounds like you have a great deal of anxiety. Don't be afraid to tell the pdoc how long you have suffered. By knowing all this information he will be better able to Rx the right meds for you and set up some talk therapy for you. As Scott said, there are many med combos for your pdoc to try. I believe you felt the way you did in the hospital because it is normal to feel anxious at the hospital. It just doesn't go away the minute you leave. Try the low dose seroquel in the am, and a higher dose at night. The clozaril is usually used for schizphrenics that have failed to respond to other antipsychotics. I think your doctor was wise not to want you to try it. Where did you learn that it would reverse TD? I've never heard this. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 15:08:44
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself » Jeroen, posted by SLS on March 9, 2005, at 6:41:45
hi, i have decided to give up my life on around march 2006
so on my grave it will be, Jeroen P. 1983-2006he took geodon, but the geodon was pure satanistic and killed him, rather eat my own sh*t (sorry bob) for a day then taking geodon
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 15:30:53
In reply to Re: To ED UK, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 13:34:58
Well, I'm glad to see that you have a year to try different med combos. But, take the seroquel. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by SLS on March 10, 2005, at 6:58:17
In reply to to SLS, posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 15:08:44
Hi Jeroen.
> hi, i have decided to give up my life on around march 2006
I have set such dates for myself in the past.
Generally speaking, I am an advocate of autoeuthenasia. In my opinion, that is your right to do, unless the decision to terminate is made in the midst of an altered state of consciousness, whereupon, intervention might be justified.
> so on my grave it will be, Jeroen P. 1983-2006
Nothing more?
> he took geodon, but the geodon was pure satanistic and killed him, rather eat my own sh*t (sorry bob) for a day then taking geodon
I don't like Geodon at all, although I am sure there are some people for whom it works wonderfully. It can cause manic and psychotic reactions and produce cognive impairments, and insomnia at relatively low dosages. These things seem to occur with a disappointingly high frequency in my opinion.
Question:
What would have to change in your life for you to decide to continue living?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 10, 2005, at 8:53:58
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by Jeroen on March 9, 2005, at 9:47:31
Dear Jeroen,
I don't believe that you are either schizophrenic or schizoaffective. You have not demonstrated any psychotic or delusional thoughts and behaviors in your posts.
That said, I think you would profit greatly from taking Zyprexa. It has antipsychotic, antimanic, mood stabilizing, antianxiety, anti-rumination, and anti-OCD properties.
Although it is unlikely that you have TD, Zyprexa can reduce its severity. However, this is really just an academic piece of information for you, as it does not apply to you. The "T" in TD stands for "tardive". Tardive means "late", and refers to the many years of taking antipsychotics that is necessary for this condition to develop. I think you have developed a tic that might have been triggered by extreme anxiety. Facial tics very often develop around the eyes. Have you ever been evaluated for ADD/ADHD? OCD? Is there any history of Tourettes in the family? Zyprexa will suppress tics. The worst thing that I can think of is that you have had a biological vulnerability for developing tics, and that these tics have been unmasked by multiple exposures and abrupt discontinuations of antipsychotics. However, this is just a theoretical scenario that I came up with myself to try to explain things for you. I would not be surprised if Geodon were not individually responsible for unmasking your tics. These tics, however, are not EPS.
I do not think you have enough reasons to justify taking your own life. You do not have a schizoid disorder or TD.
Please understand that I really do respect and understand your feelings. Remember, I've been there too. I am not trying to work against you as if I had some kind or agenda against autoeuthanasia. I am not trying to force you to do anything.
I could be wrong about all of this, but these are my thoughts at this juncture.
- Scott
----------------------------------------
> i think its schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder, it started at age 14 years old, ive been untreated with no help for like 5 years then at age 20 i started geodon 20 mg for a period of 3 weeks, it gave me tardive dyskinesia, uncontrolled eye movement and blinking
>
> im 6 months of the dog po*p (sorry bob) and still have it, bitt less but it still bothering me a lot
>
>
> ive read 50% who take GEODON get tardive dyskinesia, even after taking is several weeks
>
>
> i fel in love with a girl, right when i got this TD she wanted to make love with her, at that time i coudnt keep my eyes open
> and i had to decline her request, because in this condition i dont want to make love with anyone!!!
>
> i felt really good at the age of 14 years old i went out a lot in weekends, had very much fun with friend, then it suddenly happened, i felt watched, was scared to go out, the fun was GONE!
>
> things in school went from good to evil, worse and very bad
>
> i could have a kick *ss youth but no, something bad happened to me, i almost got an answer to my problem, then this TD happened to me and destroyed my social life..
>
> its the second time my luck is destroyed, first my youth, because i could have gone out a lot and had a lucky happy life, normal life
>
>
> now age 20 everything was ok i started geodon and now another happyness with this girl has been destroyed..
>
>
> as you can see, i have reasons to kill myself, i am even affraid to tell my doctor i got sick at the age of 14 years old, now that im 20 my future has been detroyed aswell by taking geodon
>
>
> she like me and we could have had a nice relationship for a while
>
>
> i dont want to kill myself yet... im considering going to hospital and try clozaril but my doc said yesterday, that this medicine has too much negative things and hes not behind it..
>
> but what if my TD gets reversed? what are my odds?
>
>
> i really do beleive my odds are 0% to get better because what is happening to me MUST be a test from god or i must have done something wrong!
>
>
Posted by SLS on March 10, 2005, at 8:58:16
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself » Jeroen, posted by SLS on March 10, 2005, at 8:53:58
By the way, Zyprexa is the closest drug to Clozaril, and doesn't require you to get blood tests for agranulocytosis.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on March 10, 2005, at 13:34:42
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself » Jeroen, posted by SLS on March 10, 2005, at 8:53:58
was at the hospital, and almost had a psychotic attack, ive seen everything in slow motion
now that im home and took 2 hours rest its gone
ive been 1 week of seroquel off and i still feel side effectsmmm i doubt of doing zyprexa again because i took 10 mg for like 2 weeks and i was almost blind, coudnt see where i was walking
maybe i should get hospitalized and try 30 mg? high dose? and evaluate the eye problem what do you think?
could this be dystonia? and zyprexa making it worser?
Posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 14:35:15
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by Jeroen on March 10, 2005, at 13:34:42
Hi J,
I'm sorry to hear about your attack. It sounds like a panic attack with the symptom derealisation- where the surroundings seem changed or unreal. It doesn't sound like you were psychotic.
>was at the hospital, and almost had a psychotic attack, ive seen everything in slow motion
now that im home and took 2 hours rest its gone
>ive been 1 week of seroquel off and i still feel side effects.I think this suggests that your previous 'panic attack' was not a side effect of Seroquel- another reason to try Seroquel again!
>i took 10 mg for like 2 weeks and i was almost blind, coudnt see where i was walking
>maybe i should get hospitalized and try 30 mg? high dose? and evaluate the eye problem what do you think?I think it might be better to try Seroquel again first.
Best regards,
Ed.
Posted by Jeroen on March 10, 2005, at 14:50:22
In reply to Re: Jeroen, don't hurt yourself, posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 14:35:15
no, it was the seroquel, this medicine is miracle for me, im feeling normal and very good and even on low dose 75 mg, but im scared for getting psychotic on it, this proves it, shame, never felt like before
i have patients at the hospital even saying to me you can get psychotic on this medicine, the first time i took in combination with SIPRALEXA i was in bad shape. this medicine is a miracle for me!! i felt even 300% better then on amantadinecan you help me with the zyprexa?
ill give zyprexa a last shot, or should i try clozaril? im getting nuts discussing these things!!!
if i wantd to try the zyprexa then i would go high dose upto 30 mg, and avaluate the eye problem after a few months, what do you think?
can i take zyprexa in combination with amantadine? i have no serious side effects from amantadine
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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