Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 460241

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Cymbalta from a BP-II

Posted by barbaracat on February 19, 2005, at 1:41:29

I started Cymbalta 5 days ago and I have great hopes for it. I just got back from a little vacation on the psych ward where I was taken off lithium due to a worsening hypothyroid condition (the rationale was that the thyroid problems were contributing to the major crash I experienced recently). Put on depakote and Seroquel and turned into a stumbling depressed zombie with a nasty attitude. Taken off depakote and put on increased seroquel to act as mood stabilizer and added 30mg Cymbalta.

Quickly went flamingly hypomanic. It was too much fun but I managed to hold 'er steady before going stratospheric. That norepinephrine sure does kick in quickly. Too quickly. Put myself back on lithium and things have settled down nicely. Increased T4 thyroxine. How many times will it take to realize I need that lithium?

I have to cut back and go more slowly with the Cymbalta. I'm so tightly wrapped these days and don't need any extra twitchies. Still have alot of anxiety but not taking it quite as seriously.

Cymbalta shows the greatest potential so far and I've been on them all. I believe that Luvox is the only one I haven't been on. Colors are richer, brighter, contours seem more rounded, not as jagged and electrical. Almost has the soft quality of mescaline. Anyone else notice a psychedelic thing?

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » barbaracat

Posted by Ritch on February 19, 2005, at 10:14:02

In reply to Cymbalta from a BP-II, posted by barbaracat on February 19, 2005, at 1:41:29

> I started Cymbalta 5 days ago and I have great hopes for it. I just got back from a little vacation on the psych ward where I was taken off lithium due to a worsening hypothyroid condition (the rationale was that the thyroid problems were contributing to the major crash I experienced recently). Put on depakote and Seroquel and turned into a stumbling depressed zombie with a nasty attitude. Taken off depakote and put on increased seroquel to act as mood stabilizer and added 30mg Cymbalta.
>
> Quickly went flamingly hypomanic. It was too much fun but I managed to hold 'er steady before going stratospheric. That norepinephrine sure does kick in quickly. Too quickly. Put myself back on lithium and things have settled down nicely. Increased T4 thyroxine. How many times will it take to realize I need that lithium?
>
> I have to cut back and go more slowly with the Cymbalta. I'm so tightly wrapped these days and don't need any extra twitchies. Still have alot of anxiety but not taking it quite as seriously.
>
> Cymbalta shows the greatest potential so far and I've been on them all. I believe that Luvox is the only one I haven't been on. Colors are richer, brighter, contours seem more rounded, not as jagged and electrical. Almost has the soft quality of mescaline. Anyone else notice a psychedelic thing?

The meds that created enhanced coloration for me was Prozac (the most), Effexor, and to a milder degree, Celexa. I think it is mostly a serotonergic thing. The "pure" norepi meds I noticed more contrast, not more color. Cymbalta launched me off into a hypomania when I took it as well (and that was only three mg). I hope you can manage ok on your lithium and T4. ..."stumbling depressed zombie with a nasty attitude".. hmmm, I can relate to that :)

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II

Posted by Phillipa on February 19, 2005, at 17:40:03

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » barbaracat, posted by Ritch on February 19, 2005, at 10:14:02

Is there another mood stabilizer you can go on instead of the Lithium? I know you tried depakote, but have you tried the others? Fondly, Phillipa

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II

Posted by Minnie-Haha on February 19, 2005, at 18:00:21

In reply to Cymbalta from a BP-II, posted by barbaracat on February 19, 2005, at 1:41:29

> ... Cymbalta shows the greatest potential so far and I've been on them all. I believe that Luvox is the only one I haven't been on. Colors are richer, brighter, contours seem more rounded, not as jagged and electrical. Almost has the soft quality of mescaline. Anyone else notice a psychedelic thing?

The change for me, I think, was that my anxiety and depression lifted so well that I was able to "see" the world as it's meant to be seen... not always gray and glum. There was a thread here recently about depression, meds, and color perception. It was pretty fun...

Good luck!

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » barbaracat

Posted by KaraS on February 19, 2005, at 20:36:53

In reply to Cymbalta from a BP-II, posted by barbaracat on February 19, 2005, at 1:41:29

> I started Cymbalta 5 days ago and I have great hopes for it. I just got back from a little vacation on the psych ward where I was taken off lithium due to a worsening hypothyroid condition (the rationale was that the thyroid problems were contributing to the major crash I experienced recently). Put on depakote and Seroquel and turned into a stumbling depressed zombie with a nasty attitude. Taken off depakote and put on increased seroquel to act as mood stabilizer and added 30mg Cymbalta.
>
> Quickly went flamingly hypomanic. It was too much fun but I managed to hold 'er steady before going stratospheric. That norepinephrine sure does kick in quickly. Too quickly. Put myself back on lithium and things have settled down nicely. Increased T4 thyroxine. How many times will it take to realize I need that lithium?
>
> I have to cut back and go more slowly with the Cymbalta. I'm so tightly wrapped these days and don't need any extra twitchies. Still have alot of anxiety but not taking it quite as seriously.
>
> Cymbalta shows the greatest potential so far and I've been on them all. I believe that Luvox is the only one I haven't been on. Colors are richer, brighter, contours seem more rounded, not as jagged and electrical. Almost has the soft quality of mescaline. Anyone else notice a psychedelic thing?


Barbaracat,
Sorry to hear about your recent troubles. I know that you really liked being on something natural like St. John's Wort. If you have to switch to medication though, Cymbalta sounds like a good choice. I've read a lot of good posts about it recently.

Good luck and keep us posted on how you're doing!

Kara

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » Phillipa

Posted by Ritch on February 19, 2005, at 21:57:52

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II, posted by Phillipa on February 19, 2005, at 17:40:03

> Is there another mood stabilizer you can go on instead of the Lithium? I know you tried depakote, but have you tried the others? Fondly, Phillipa

Tegretol would probably be the next one besides Depakote or Lithium. Trileptal is supposed to be a close relative of Teg. I can't tolerate Trileptal due to nausea. Haven't tried Tegretol since 1990 or so. I stopped it and went back on lithium back then after a 2 week or so trial (it didn't seem to be helping my depression at the time-but didn't notice any nausea though). I've expressed interest in Lamictal, but pdoc doesn't want to try it. AP's have been tried (conventional and atypical)-mixed results and plenty of EPS, yack don't want to go there. Verapamil seemed to work well for temper flares/mixed sx but made me dizzy and worsened tremor I already have with Depakote. Keppra was great for sleep and somewhat good for anxiety, but tended to make me generally irritable. Topamax just plain made me stupid and sleepy with skin crawling sensations. Gabitril caused derealization. SSRI's aggravate cycling like crazy. Neurontin helped a lot with anxiety, but seems to induce hypomania. I'm currently on Depakote 250 ER with .75mg clonazepam and 1/2 mg Celexa every 2-3 days to dust the serotonin transporters, fishoil, and 500mg L-tyrosine every other day. Magnesium + 12.5mg of Benadryl at night for sleep. Exercise a lot. This is about as good as it has ever been. Less chronic and lower dosage antidepresant use has resulted in better more stable times during times that are normally high. However, the low times are just as bad, but just less *mixed*. Left to try? Lamictal. Tegretol-no nausea as Trileptal with as good an antimanic effect? Phenytoin. My Mom was on that 400mg/day for nocturnal epilepsy and it helped her panic/GAD symptoms as well. Just don't want the gingival hyperplasia. Like to keep all my teeth.

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » Phillipa

Posted by barbaracat on February 20, 2005, at 1:53:05

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II, posted by Phillipa on February 19, 2005, at 17:40:03

I've tried Topamax which made me very anxious and Lamictal which worked for a while then flopped. I also became prone from it to a later Stevens Johnson rash. I use Neurontin sometimes and it helps with anxiety and fibro pain.

I saw an earlier post of yours which suggested the use of benzos to control the stress that is ultimately the trigger for all this stuff. It makes sense. Just today, after struggling to hold off unpleasant symptoms that felt like an acid trip from the Cymbalta, I realize I am not a good candidate for these psychopharmaceuticals. Definitely not for ADs or APs. I've tried so many. My brain has been feeling in a state of spasm and there's something wrong with the theory of toughing it out til the symptoms lessen. My pupils are dilated and I have this strange perception of electricity. Increasing the dosages does not work. My brain feels ultra-sensitive these days and my body is having a hard time breaking down the meds which is adding another stress to it. I'm trying to clear things out and avoid anything harsh to my system. I have faith that seriously detoxifying would help alot of things.

I'm going to go back to Lithium and St. John's Wort which was very positive for me and suggest to my therapist an ongoing anxiety med, probably Klonopin. I think I can control this with healthy lifestyle things if I could only get a handle on the anxiety. Thanks for your suggestions about benzos, it got me on the right path of thought about this frustrating situation. - Barbara


> Is there another mood stabilizer you can go on instead of the Lithium? I know you tried depakote, but have you tried the others? Fondly, Phillipa

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » KaraS

Posted by barbaracat on February 20, 2005, at 2:03:39

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » barbaracat, posted by KaraS on February 19, 2005, at 20:36:53

Thanks, Kara. Yes, it has been wild as only a bipolar who's on the wrong meds can be. I was saying to Phillpa on this thread that I've decided to go back to Lithium and increased St. Johns' Wort and add a benzo. Stress is always my trigger and If I can keep a handle on it, I hope to not nead the handfulls of pills I'm supposed to take. The psychopharmaceuticals were having a toll on me, strange effects.

I thing my system just does not do well on certain drugs. I was practically acid tripping from the Cymbalta today (or was it the addition of Seroquel, who knows). My body's felt clenched and in spasms and it wasn't fun (maybe the seroquel again?). Dissipointed because I wanted Cymbalta to be 'the one' but I don't think I can handle it rigtht now. Perhaps later when I get my physcial body and hormones stable I can reconsider retrying this AD that with alot of potential.

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » barbaracat

Posted by KaraS on February 20, 2005, at 2:17:54

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » KaraS, posted by barbaracat on February 20, 2005, at 2:03:39

> Thanks, Kara. Yes, it has been wild as only a bipolar who's on the wrong meds can be. I was saying to Phillpa on this thread that I've decided to go back to Lithium and increased St. Johns' Wort and add a benzo. Stress is always my trigger and If I can keep a handle on it, I hope to not nead the handfulls of pills I'm supposed to take. The psychopharmaceuticals were having a toll on me, strange effects.
>
> I thing my system just does not do well on certain drugs. I was practically acid tripping from the Cymbalta today (or was it the addition of Seroquel, who knows). My body's felt clenched and in spasms and it wasn't fun (maybe the seroquel again?). Dissipointed because I wanted Cymbalta to be 'the one' but I don't think I can handle it rigtht now. Perhaps later when I get my physcial body and hormones stable I can reconsider retrying this AD that with alot of potential.


I understand. Anxiety has been doing a number on me lately as well. It struck with a vengence and has thrown my life into a tailspin. Hope your new plan works out.

K

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » KaraS

Posted by barbaracat on February 20, 2005, at 10:24:33

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » barbaracat, posted by KaraS on February 20, 2005, at 2:17:54

> I understand. Anxiety has been doing a number on me lately as well. It struck with a vengence and has thrown my life into a tailspin. Hope your new plan works out.

Kara,
I hope your anxiety smooths out as well, it's the trigger. For me, getting well means being able to manage getting out doors for some exercise, extremely hard when I'm mentally and physically sick. It also helps my sleep and my breathing which gets disordered when I'm stressed, which then constributes to more anxiety and on and on. If I can keep up the good habits they really work as as the best AD for me. Good luck to us - life has got to be better than this. - Barbara

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Minnie-Haha

Posted by barbaracat on February 21, 2005, at 15:58:34

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II, posted by Minnie-Haha on February 19, 2005, at 18:00:21

Hi Friends,
I had to stop Cymbalta because the trippy side effects were no fun. It wasn't the colors or sliding landscape - they were fun. It was the weird 'claw' feeling in the back of my neck and throat that I remember from my days of taking acid lo these many years ago. It's like a constant need to yawn and a feeling of strong tension at the base of my skull, lika a claw is gripping it. My brain was feeling tight and pressured as well. Also a feeling of too much electricity, staring eyes and dilated pupils. Closed my eyes and saw a flood of intense images, some rather disturbing. Anyone who has tripped knows what I'm talking about but perhaps others have felt this thing as well.

So I stopped, which is unfortunate because I was feeling like it was making a difference in my overall mood. I feel much much better, no more claws or shifting landscapes, but I don't want to slide back into depression. The situation is not so clear cut becuase I also stopped Seroquel that same night.

Here's my question: maybe 30mg was too much for my extremely sensitive consistution. Does anyone have any ideas about taking very very small doses, like a few sprinkles at a time? One would think, well sure, less many be better. But not always. Sometimes a lower potency of a med produces unpredictable effects. I think of Remeron which is a different drug at higher doses. I guess I can always try and report back my guinea-pigedness but would welcome thoughts.Perhaps the combo with Seroquel was screwing things up. I know I feel better off it.

I don't understand what's going on with the pdoc profession with this antipsychotic bandwagon they've jumped on. I mean, we're talking dopamine, the 'feel good' chemical they're messing with! Anyhow, please write back. I'm feeling kinda lonely with this question. - Barbara

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » barbaracat

Posted by Phillipa on February 21, 2005, at 17:25:20

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Minnie-Haha, posted by barbaracat on February 21, 2005, at 15:58:34

I know what you mean about the antipsychotics and anxiety. They put me on seroquel in the hospital for sleep. They were insistent that I sleep through the night without waking. Well, they finally gave me 50mg at bedtime, and another 50mg when I woke up during the night. In the am I felt my eyes were glued shut, and I was denifitely drunk. They discontinued it without my asking. Can't they understand that no matter what they give me I will always wake-up to use the BR, and then can't get back to sleep. Now that I again changed pdocs, at least she lets me take 5cc of chloral hydrate, 5mg of valium and l5mg of remeron at bedtime and then I take 5cc CH again. As far as taking low doses of cymbalta goes, that reminds me of how I reacted to Luvox. In the beginning i could take 250mg. After stopping it i couldn't tolerate more than l2.5mg without anxiety. This was when I would constantly have panic attacks. Now it feels like i want to have a panic attack, but can't. Wierd isn't it? Just "Babbling" Fondly, Phillipa

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » barbaracat

Posted by Ritch on February 21, 2005, at 21:28:23

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Minnie-Haha, posted by barbaracat on February 21, 2005, at 15:58:34

Each one of those Cymbalta pellets is .1mg, so if you take ten pellets it is 1mg. I *started* at 3mg (30 pellets) and got an immediate hypomanic reaction. It kind of settled and fluxed over the course of a couple of weeks, but ended up making me panicky and it didn't get better. I tried *lower* doses which helped, but ended up off the stuff. I don't think it is so much the 5HT/Ne reuptake inhibition levels, I think it is a difference in affinity to agonize different receptor subtypes (super wild guess). Whew, if I would have taken 30mg all-at-once, I would likely have similar or worse problems that you are having.....

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Ritch

Posted by Phillipa on February 21, 2005, at 22:08:22

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » barbaracat, posted by Ritch on February 21, 2005, at 21:28:23

Did you count more than one capsule? When I was on it I titrated off of them, but found that the capsules contained different amts. Fondly, Phillipa

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Phillipa

Posted by Ritch on February 22, 2005, at 9:13:31

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Ritch, posted by Phillipa on February 21, 2005, at 22:08:22

> Did you count more than one capsule? When I was on it I titrated off of them, but found that the capsules contained different amts. Fondly, Phillipa

I counted one 60mg capsule (not the entire contents just a portion to extrapolate). It was "close enough" for me to speculate about the 1 pellet = 100micrograms. It wouldn't surprise me there is some variance in the number of pellets inside.

 

Re: Cymbalta » Ritch

Posted by ed_uk on February 22, 2005, at 9:21:28

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Phillipa, posted by Ritch on February 22, 2005, at 9:13:31

Hi!

> It wouldn't surprise me there is some variance in the number of pellets inside.

There will be some variation, capsules are usually filled by volume.

Best Regards,
Ed.

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Ritch

Posted by barbaracat on February 22, 2005, at 14:59:26

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » barbaracat, posted by Ritch on February 21, 2005, at 21:28:23

Thanks for the math, Ritch. That's pretty good. Could you describe what your experience was on Cymbalta? I'm curious because I was also on high doses of seroquel and wonder how someone else's experience compares. Did you have the 'claw' like tension in your neck, occiput and throat? Was your hypomania the fun productive kind or anxious and a little insane? (Mine was definitely insane).

> Each one of those Cymbalta pellets is .1mg, so if you take ten pellets it is 1mg. I *started* at 3mg (30 pellets) and got an immediate hypomanic reaction. It kind of settled and fluxed over the course of a couple of weeks, but ended up making me panicky and it didn't get better. I tried *lower* doses which helped, but ended up off the stuff. I don't think it is so much the 5HT/Ne reuptake inhibition levels, I think it is a difference in affinity to agonize different receptor subtypes (super wild guess). Whew, if I would have taken 30mg all-at-once, I would likely have similar or worse problems that you are having.....

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II

Posted by betternow on February 22, 2005, at 22:24:27

In reply to Cymbalta from a BP-II, posted by barbaracat on February 19, 2005, at 1:41:29

> I started Cymbalta 5 days ago and I have great hopes for it. I just got back from a little vacation on the psych ward where I was taken off lithium due to a worsening hypothyroid condition (the rationale was that the thyroid problems were contributing to the major crash I experienced recently). Put on depakote and Seroquel and turned into a stumbling depressed zombie with a nasty attitude. Taken off depakote and put on increased seroquel to act as mood stabilizer and added 30mg Cymbalta.
>
> Quickly went flamingly hypomanic. It was too much fun but I managed to hold 'er steady before going stratospheric. That norepinephrine sure does kick in quickly. Too quickly. Put myself back on lithium and things have settled down nicely. Increased T4 thyroxine. How many times will it take to realize I need that lithium?

Just an observation, but I believe T4 can get you a little hypomanic as well. Have you considered replacing lithium with Lamictal.

I am BPII. I take 100mg Seroquel at bedtime along with Lamictal 200mg. In the am I take the Cymbalta 60mg.

Good luck!

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » barbaracat

Posted by Ritch on February 22, 2005, at 22:53:18

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Ritch, posted by barbaracat on February 22, 2005, at 14:59:26

> Thanks for the math, Ritch. That's pretty good. Could you describe what your experience was on Cymbalta? I'm curious because I was also on high doses of seroquel and wonder how someone else's experience compares. Did you have the 'claw' like tension in your neck, occiput and throat? Was your hypomania the fun productive kind or anxious and a little insane? (Mine was definitely insane).
>
> > Each one of those Cymbalta pellets is .1mg, so if you take ten pellets it is 1mg. I *started* at 3mg (30 pellets) and got an immediate hypomanic reaction. It kind of settled and fluxed over the course of a couple of weeks, but ended up making me panicky and it didn't get better. I tried *lower* doses which helped, but ended up off the stuff. I don't think it is so much the 5HT/Ne reuptake inhibition levels, I think it is a difference in affinity to agonize different receptor subtypes (super wild guess). Whew, if I would have taken 30mg all-at-once, I would likely have similar or worse problems that you are having.....
>
>

The experiment with Cymbalta had to do with seeing if I could drop the very low dose Celexa and very low dose Stratterra I was taking at the time (which replaced low - dose Effexor which was "working" ok, but had sleep disruption that the Celexa + Stratterra seemed to do better at not provoking and "worked" about as good as the Effexor did)... anyhow.... I simply went from my usual Depakote + clonazepam (plus very low dose Celexa/Stratterra) to my usual Depakote + clonazepam (plus very low dose *Cymbalta* 3mg + Stratterra 5mg). I got a really bad stye in my right eye, also noticed really intense facial flushing at times and some transient intense vertigo (that was Prozac like for me). I thought there was just too much norepi, so I just stopped the Stratterra... So then I was at Depakote + clon. + Cymbalta 3mg. The eye stye got better right away. Figured it was just the Stratterra was interacting negatively. But.... I seemed to get more agitated and started to feel more panicky after another week, and it wasn't getting better. I went to an eye appt. and was told that my intraocular pressure in my eye was up quite a bit. I backed off the Cymbalta some more and felt better. I eventually just quit the stuff. There was just something unique about it that agitated me unlike Strattera, stims, Effexor, etc., very weird. I think it is just some specific 5HT receptor agonist thing-just my hunch. Not taking that one again. Claw-like tension in my neck.... I've gotten that reaction (more or less) from *all* SSRI's, Effexor, Cymbalta. I didn't get that particular reaction any more or less with Cymb. than the others. I've also gotten what seems like dystonic neck muscle tension from all of the SRI's as well. Some a little worse than others. Effexor was more back of the neck and shoulder. Celexa was more in the front (SSRI's - the 'lump in throat' type of thing), Zoloft was mostly "jaw-clenching" stuff. ... The initial hypomanic reaction from the Cymbalta was the fun kind, but seemed to just give way to increased agitation and anxiety.. just didn't like that. I spent more than 3 weeks tinkering with the Cymbalta before fading the dose away.. so I really think it just didn't mix with my chemistry.

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II » betternow

Posted by barbaracat on February 23, 2005, at 12:12:35

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II, posted by betternow on February 22, 2005, at 22:24:27

> Just an observation, but I believe T4 can get you a little hypomanic as well.

***Hi and thanks for your reply to me. I'm not sure that T4 alone can induce mania like T3 can, unless too much is given and a hyperthyroid condition results. But anything's possible. Espescially with my tweaky system.

>Have you considered replacing lithium with Lamictal.

***I was on Lam along with lithium for a while and it worked pretty well, then pooped and the dose was increased to the point where it caused intense itching and inflammation - a 'prodromal rash state' - which sensitized me to getting the actual rash later on from another drug. So, unfortunately that one's out. I've tried Tomomax but never tried Valproex or Trileptal in the mood stabilizer category. But lithium works well and if it weren't for the thyroid thing I'd have no problems taking it.
>
> I am BPII. I take 100mg Seroquel at bedtime along with Lamictal 200mg. In the am I take the Cymbalta 60mg.

***I stopped taking Seroquel. Didn't notice a difference at the 100mg dose and am not willing to go up any higher. The side effects of these meds concern me and I'm just not clear on where antipsychotics fit into the bipolar chemistry and why they're being prescribed for us BPs.

At this point I'm taking 600mg lithium and 3 grains, count 'em, three itty bitty grains from a pulled apart Cymbalta capsule and I feel them strongly. It doesn't seem possible that this miniscule amount would even register, but my eyes dilate and I feel lesser but the same psychelic effects than when I was taking 30mg. If I'm that dang sensitive, no wonder I was tripping my brains out on 30mg. I usually feel a little crazy but calm and cry like crazy a few hours after taking it, but feel better afterwards. I've been feeling much better on waking with this bizarre protocol and sense it's doing something. But jeez, 3 grains? Must be some energetic thing or something. Truly, sometimes I think all I need is a good benzo.

It sounds like you have a good combo and it's working well for you. Yay! We need to hear positive results on this journey. Good luck to you too. It's good to have this board.
>
> Good luck!
>
>

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Ritch

Posted by barbaracat on February 23, 2005, at 12:27:32

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » barbaracat, posted by Ritch on February 22, 2005, at 22:53:18

HI Rick,
What alchemists we become on this stuff. I noticed some definite pressure in the head with 30mg Cym and my ears were pounding so intraocular pressure sounds about right. I felt my eyes were staring and somewhat bulged so again, some kind of pressure.

You'll be interested to hear that I've been taking 3 individual grains of the stuff and feeling the effects quite strongly. Not nearly as unpleasantly because the uncomfortable body cramping and weird anxiety aren't there to such an extent - but still there. My pupils dilate and I feel the psychedelic effects only much less so. I get a period of maudlin grief where I have to release tears but then it feels better. I'm waking up feeling much less morning depression. I truly think these 3 grains are affecting me and that goes beyond amazing. How could this be? It is most definitely not my imagination because of the very distinct set of symptoms (dilated eyes for one).

I don't know how long I can expect to go on such a miniscule dose (3 friggin' little individual grains!) but maybe we need much less of this stuff than anyone can imagine. Certainly not 30mg!

I wonder about all that tention stuff in the neck and throat from SSRIs. It was a definite experience when I used to do LSD so it's got to be a serotonin activity. I just find it interesting and curious how and where these drugs affect us. Always nice to hear from you, Rich and wish you the best. - Barbara

> > Thanks for the math, Ritch. That's pretty good. Could you describe what your experience was on Cymbalta? I'm curious because I was also on high doses of seroquel and wonder how someone else's experience compares. Did you have the 'claw' like tension in your neck, occiput and throat? Was your hypomania the fun productive kind or anxious and a little insane? (Mine was definitely insane).
> >
> > > Each one of those Cymbalta pellets is .1mg, so if you take ten pellets it is 1mg. I *started* at 3mg (30 pellets) and got an immediate hypomanic reaction. It kind of settled and fluxed over the course of a couple of weeks, but ended up making me panicky and it didn't get better. I tried *lower* doses which helped, but ended up off the stuff. I don't think it is so much the 5HT/Ne reuptake inhibition levels, I think it is a difference in affinity to agonize different receptor subtypes (super wild guess). Whew, if I would have taken 30mg all-at-once, I would likely have similar or worse problems that you are having.....
> >
> >
>
> The experiment with Cymbalta had to do with seeing if I could drop the very low dose Celexa and very low dose Stratterra I was taking at the time (which replaced low - dose Effexor which was "working" ok, but had sleep disruption that the Celexa + Stratterra seemed to do better at not provoking and "worked" about as good as the Effexor did)... anyhow.... I simply went from my usual Depakote + clonazepam (plus very low dose Celexa/Stratterra) to my usual Depakote + clonazepam (plus very low dose *Cymbalta* 3mg + Stratterra 5mg). I got a really bad stye in my right eye, also noticed really intense facial flushing at times and some transient intense vertigo (that was Prozac like for me). I thought there was just too much norepi, so I just stopped the Stratterra... So then I was at Depakote + clon. + Cymbalta 3mg. The eye stye got better right away. Figured it was just the Stratterra was interacting negatively. But.... I seemed to get more agitated and started to feel more panicky after another week, and it wasn't getting better. I went to an eye appt. and was told that my intraocular pressure in my eye was up quite a bit. I backed off the Cymbalta some more and felt better. I eventually just quit the stuff. There was just something unique about it that agitated me unlike Strattera, stims, Effexor, etc., very weird. I think it is just some specific 5HT receptor agonist thing-just my hunch. Not taking that one again. Claw-like tension in my neck.... I've gotten that reaction (more or less) from *all* SSRI's, Effexor, Cymbalta. I didn't get that particular reaction any more or less with Cymb. than the others. I've also gotten what seems like dystonic neck muscle tension from all of the SRI's as well. Some a little worse than others. Effexor was more back of the neck and shoulder. Celexa was more in the front (SSRI's - the 'lump in throat' type of thing), Zoloft was mostly "jaw-clenching" stuff. ... The initial hypomanic reaction from the Cymbalta was the fun kind, but seemed to just give way to increased agitation and anxiety.. just didn't like that. I spent more than 3 weeks tinkering with the Cymbalta before fading the dose away.. so I really think it just didn't mix with my chemistry.

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » barbaracat

Posted by Ritch on February 23, 2005, at 23:17:45

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Ritch, posted by barbaracat on February 23, 2005, at 12:27:32

...
>You'll be interested to hear that I've been taking 3 individual grains of the stuff and feeling the effects quite strongly. Not nearly as unpleasantly because the uncomfortable body cramping and weird anxiety aren't there to such an extent - but still there.
...

That doesn't surprise me at all. My Cymbalta trial pellet history goes as thus: 1) 30 pellets/day for 21 days, worsening...sx 2) Reduction from 20-12 pellets/day over the next 30 days (felt better), 3) Stopped altogether and switched back to 5mg Stratterra/day. (felt better). Not taking Stratterra now though BTW. Don't need to. Bottom line I defintely found that a little Celexa + Stratterra or Effexor worked better for me than Cymbalta. Really dissapointed.

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question

Posted by barbaracat on February 25, 2005, at 20:54:15

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » barbaracat, posted by Ritch on February 23, 2005, at 23:17:45

I'm up to 4 pellets - whoo whee - and still getting a very positive response. I recall how teeny those tabs of acid were and guess it doesn't take much.

I thought Straterra was a pstim for ADD? How does that figure into your AD/bipolar strategy? I no longer do well on stimulants although my unwell bipolar symptoms leave me feeling very disorganized with signs of ADD.

>
> That doesn't surprise me at all. My Cymbalta trial pellet history goes as thus: 1) 30 pellets/day for 21 days, worsening...sx 2) Reduction from 20-12 pellets/day over the next 30 days (felt better), 3) Stopped altogether and switched back to 5mg Stratterra/day. (felt better). Not taking Stratterra now though BTW. Don't need to. Bottom line I defintely found that a little Celexa + Stratterra or Effexor worked better for me than Cymbalta. Really dissapointed.

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question

Posted by Ritch on February 25, 2005, at 21:46:31

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question, posted by barbaracat on February 25, 2005, at 20:54:15

> I'm up to 4 pellets - whoo whee - and still getting a very positive response. I recall how teeny those tabs of acid were and guess it doesn't take much.
>
> I thought Straterra was a pstim for ADD? How does that figure into your AD/bipolar strategy? I no longer do well on stimulants although my unwell bipolar symptoms leave me feeling very disorganized with signs of ADD.
>
> >
> > That doesn't surprise me at all. My Cymbalta trial pellet history goes as thus: 1) 30 pellets/day for 21 days, worsening...sx 2) Reduction from 20-12 pellets/day over the next 30 days (felt better), 3) Stopped altogether and switched back to 5mg Stratterra/day. (felt better). Not taking Stratterra now though BTW. Don't need to. Bottom line I defintely found that a little Celexa + Stratterra or Effexor worked better for me than Cymbalta. Really dissapointed.
>
>

We were hoping that Cymbalta would be the ADD/anxiety/depression (all-in-one) med to accompany Depakote as an antimanic agent. Conventional psychostimulants (such as Ritalin and Adderall, Dexedrine, etc) have *always* worked beter than *anything else* for my bipolar depressions(is it an "add" depression?). Stratterra isn't a conventional psychostimulant.. it is like reboxetine, in that it is a relatively selective norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Classical stims would *work the best* (short term), but would tend to have deterioriating response histories with panic kicking in. NRI's like Stratterra would work not as well, BUT would have an anti*panic* effect that the stims didn't provide (or worsened)....I've got panic disorder with bipolar.... it's complicated.

 

Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question » Ritch

Posted by barbaracat on February 26, 2005, at 14:10:39

In reply to Re: Cymbalta from a BP-II - dose question, posted by Ritch on February 25, 2005, at 21:46:31

>>NRI's like Stratterra would work not as well, BUT would have an anti*panic* effect that the stims didn't provide (or worsened)....I've got panic disorder with bipolar.... it's complicated.

**My dx is bipolar/mixed states with panic disorder too. Can there be anything as awful as bipolar with panic disorder? We're all so different. NRI's aggravate my anxiety. When I was younger amphetamines were my drug of choice not realizing I was really self medicating chronic depression. But I did too much and would not be able to sleep and eventually psychoses and REAL depression set in. I suspect I blew my circuits out during those days and they never fully recovered. Now, amphetamines make me feel wired and dysmorphic.

Have you ever tried opiods for depression? Never fails for me. Both calms and lifts my mood, gives a nice lift to my energy and helps me think clearly (no ADD). I need very little to get a response and haven't had any problems with addiction whatsoever. If it weren't for the constipation it would be the perfect med for me.

I was out of my oxycontin and hydrocodone which I'm prescribed for fibromyalgia pain. Otherwise, had I used opiod therapy as I was starting to unravel recently I know I would have been able to halt the spiral before it got so bad.

The whole endorphin/opiods pathway has not been explored nearly enough and should be. There's such a horror of dependecy issues but pain is pain, whether psychic or physical, and finding alternate ways of boosting endorphins makes sense.

Hopefully you're taking enough fish oil. Capsules are pretty worthless since you'd need handfuls and encapsulated brands are frequently rancid. I take 2 Tablespoons of Carlson's liquid per day and need at least that much. It seems to help. If all else fails, perhaps it's not too late for Cymbalta. If 10 pellets were too strong for you, maybe one or two would work. I tried 5 and too strong. Three or four are my limit. I'm still flabberghasted by that one.


Go forward in thread:


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.