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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jrbecker on February 15, 2005, at 23:05:38
Teen Gets 30 Years in Zoloft Murder Case
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-zoloft-trial,1,7341648.story?coll=chi-news-hed
By BRUCE SMITH
Associated Press Writer
Published February 15, 2005, 9:54 PM CST
CHARLESTON, S.C. -- A 15-year-old boy who claimed the antidepressant Zoloft drove him to kill his grandparents and burn their house down was found guilty of murder Tuesday and sentenced to 30 years in prison.The jury took six hours to reject Christopher Pittman's claim that he was "involuntarily intoxicated" by the drug and could not be held responsible for the crime.
The case was one of the first of its kind to come to trial in the United States since the government began taking a close look at the dangers of antidepressant use among teenagers.
Pittman was 12 in 2001 when he killed his grandparents, Joe Pittman, 66, and Joy Pittman, 62, with a pump-action shotgun as they slept in their rural home, then torched their house and drove off in their car. He was charged as an adult.
Pittman hung his head as the verdict was read. "I know it's in the hands of God. Whatever he decides on, that's what it's going to be," he said quietly, just before Judge Danny Pieper handed down the minimum sentence. The boy could have gotten life in prison.
About a month before the slayings, Pittman was hospitalized after threatening to kill himself. He was prescribed the antidepressant Paxil and was later put on Zoloft.
A psychiatrist testified for the defense that the Zoloft was to blame for the killings, and a former Food and Drug Administration official told the jury that the crime was an angry, rash, manic act "that was chemically induced."
Pittman's lawyers urged the jury to send a message to the nation by blaming Zoloft. They said that the negative effects are more pronounced in youngsters, and that the drug robbed Pittman of the ability to tell right from wrong.
"We do not convict children for murder when they have been ambushed by chemicals that destroy their ability to reason," attorney Paul Waldner said.
But prosecutors called the Zoloft defense a smokescreen, saying the boy knew exactly what he was doing. Prosecutor Barney Giese said the boy was simply angry at his grandparents for disciplining him for choking a younger student on a school bus.
And Giese reminded jurors how the boy carried out the killings -- shooting his grandfather in the mouth and his grandmother in her head while both lay sleeping.
"I don't care how old he is. That is as malicious a killing -- a murder -- as you are ever going to find," the prosecutor said. He pointed to Pittman's statement to police in which he said his grandparents "deserved it."
Juror Christine Peterson said that at first, she felt Zoloft was a factor in the slayings. "It bothered me a lot," said Peterson, 54, a banker. "It was not an easy decision. But everyone kept saying, `Look at the evidence. Look at the evidence.'"
As for Pittman, she said: "I don't think he was a bad seed. I think he did crazy things as a boy growing up. He didn't have a stable home life. But that doesn't excuse what he did."
Pfizer Inc., the manufacturer of Zoloft, said in a statement after the verdict: "Zoloft didn't cause his problems, nor did the medication drive him to commit murder. On these two points, both Pfizer and the jury agree."
In April, a Santa Cruz, Calif., a man who beat his friend was acquitted by a jury of attempted murder after he blamed the episode on Zoloft. But in at least two cases last year, juries in Michigan and North Dakota rejected similar claims.
Zoloft is the most widely prescribed antidepressant in the United States, with 32.7 million prescriptions written in 2003. Last October, the Food and Drug Administration ordered Zoloft and other antidepressants to carry "black box" warnings -- the government's strongest warning short of a ban -- about an increased risk of suicidal behavior in children.
Pittman's lawyers said they would file an appeal questioning whether the state can constitutionally try a 12-year-old in adult court for murder.
Pittman wept as his father and other family members asked for leniency.
"I love my son with all of my heart," said Joe Pittman, whose parents were the victims. "And my mom and dad, if they were here today, would be begging for mercy as well."
(Corrects that the case is not the first overall, but one of the first to arise since the government began reviewing antidepressant use among teens.)
Copyright © 2005, The Associated Press
Posted by up'n'down on February 16, 2005, at 3:54:54
In reply to Teen Gets 30 Years in Zoloft Murder Case, posted by jrbecker on February 15, 2005, at 23:05:38
Hi, you all longsuffering people;
Has anyone been "privileged" to experience too much serotonin in their system which causes jerking, jumping movements of legs, arms and torso?? Also, I have experienced shivering at times, hyperventilating, tingling, crawling feelings of fingers and legs mainly.
The first warning signs for me have been hand tremors, but I have had them without escalation of other symptoms. This time, I had unexpected jerking of my hands while I was holding a paper plate in one hand and eating a lemon bar off of it. Next thing I knew, there went the bar on a nice beige carpet in a public place. The lemon bar was good, too. I had no more symptoms that day, but the next day,I really started with the jerking, etc.
I have been through this when I was on Nardil, and had to go off of it. I am currently on Effexor, Nortriptyline, Xanax and Depakote.
It seems that I need more serotonin than my body can handle to curb the frequency of my Migraines; otherwise, I could do with less for antidepressant effects.
So, it's back to my nice and knowledgeable pdoc for a look at damage control. Thank you for being an understanding sounding board. U'D
Posted by Bill LL on February 16, 2005, at 8:00:55
In reply to Teen Gets 30 Years in Zoloft Murder Case, posted by jrbecker on February 15, 2005, at 23:05:38
"A psychiatrist testified for the defense that the Zoloft was to blame for the killings"
I have a friend who is a pdoc. She mostly does anxiety and depression. She was doing forensics for a few years, but then quit because of all the paper work.
The system is really silly. You simply find one expert to contradict another expert. It's sort of like economists. Experts have opposite opinions.
Prior to being put on Zoloft, this kid was suicidal and hospitalized. So try blaming that on the Zoloft.
Posted by JayDee on February 16, 2005, at 8:13:55
In reply to Teen Gets 30 Years in Zoloft Murder Case, posted by jrbecker on February 15, 2005, at 23:05:38
Zoloft didnt make the kid kill his grandparents, it just gave a psycho the will to live.
the mistake was putting him on zoloft. they should have let him kill himself.
Posted by cubbybear on February 16, 2005, at 9:14:12
In reply to Re: Teen Gets 30 Years in Zoloft Murder Case, posted by JayDee on February 16, 2005, at 8:13:55
>
> the mistake was putting him on zoloft. they should have let him kill himself.I find your post quite callous and typical of Americans' hypocritical way of dealing with its children and teens. Adults and adult lawmakers will do everything to squelch a youngster's desire to experiment with being an adult (e.g. exploring their sexuality) and keeping them in the the so-called age of innocence (when in fact, most kids know more than the adults do), but in court, the kids are tried as adults and if found guilty in Felony I cases, subject to the death penalty. In short, we go around hollering "Child Protection" but wind up executing or incarcerating children, while others holler that we should just go ahead and let them kill themselves.
I am NOT excusing the boy's behavior in the least, and I tend to agree with the prosecution's claim that the anti-depressant should not be blamed for the crime. But I'd mostly like to point out here that this is a society that has some very sick and twisted ideas about teenage behavior and how to deal with it.
Posted by franco neuro on February 16, 2005, at 14:58:37
In reply to Serotonin Syndrome, posted by up'n'down on February 16, 2005, at 3:54:54
Haha...sorry to hear about that lemon bar. I'm surprised you didn't kill someone :-) I'm on Zoloft right now and recently i tried a little self experimentation by popping some 5htp with it. Oh boy did i get all twitchy like! One of these days i'm really gonna mess myself up. Oh wait...i'm already messed up...
Posted by franco neuro on February 16, 2005, at 15:02:05
In reply to Re: Teen Gets 30 Years in Zoloft Murder Case, posted by JayDee on February 16, 2005, at 8:13:55
> Zoloft didnt make the kid kill his grandparents, it just gave a psycho the will to live.
>
> the mistake was putting him on zoloft. they should have let him kill himself.
Right on bro'...i'm on Zoloft and the only person i want to kill is my doctor! (That was a joke in case any cops are monitoring this site.)
Posted by Phillipa on February 16, 2005, at 18:05:42
In reply to Re: Teen Gets 30 Years in Zoloft Murder Case » JayDee, posted by franco neuro on February 16, 2005, at 15:02:05
I agree with above Posters. I didn't know that too much seratonin could cause twitching. I thought that was from benzo W/D. It went away when I was given them back. Or, maybe I was so scared of having them taken away I just became agited and anxious! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by jerrympls on February 16, 2005, at 19:07:16
In reply to Serotonin Syndrome, posted by up'n'down on February 16, 2005, at 3:54:54
> Hi, you all longsuffering people;
>
> Has anyone been "privileged" to experience too much serotonin in their system which causes jerking, jumping movements of legs, arms and torso?? Also, I have experienced shivering at times, hyperventilating, tingling, crawling feelings of fingers and legs mainly.
> The first warning signs for me have been hand tremors, but I have had them without escalation of other symptoms. This time, I had unexpected jerking of my hands while I was holding a paper plate in one hand and eating a lemon bar off of it. Next thing I knew, there went the bar on a nice beige carpet in a public place. The lemon bar was good, too. I had no more symptoms that day, but the next day,I really started with the jerking, etc.
> I have been through this when I was on Nardil, and had to go off of it. I am currently on Effexor, Nortriptyline, Xanax and Depakote.
> It seems that I need more serotonin than my body can handle to curb the frequency of my Migraines; otherwise, I could do with less for antidepressant effects.
> So, it's back to my nice and knowledgeable pdoc for a look at damage control. Thank you for being an understanding sounding board. U'DI've been through the same thing with Nardil. Horrible and horrifying experience.
Jerry
Posted by franco neuro on February 16, 2005, at 20:32:09
In reply to Re: Teen Gets 30 Years in Zoloft Murder Case » franco neuro, posted by Phillipa on February 16, 2005, at 18:05:42
> I agree with above Posters. I didn't know that too much seratonin could cause twitching. I thought that was from benzo W/D. It went away when I was given them back. Or, maybe I was so scared of having them taken away I just became agited and anxious! Fondly, Phillipa
I know the feeling. I wasn't expecting the twitches...but a-twitching I was! Than again I was no stranger to the occassional twitch during my brief medication vacation. Sometimes you take too little and you twitch and sometimes you take too much and you twitch. And sometimes when you try to pull a medication switch you twitch! :-)
Posted by TomV on February 16, 2005, at 21:46:28
In reply to Re: Teen Gets 30 Years in Zoloft Murder Case » Phillipa, posted by franco neuro on February 16, 2005, at 20:32:09
When I took Prozac I nearly became psychotic from an adverse reaction. I can only imagine what could have happened if I were 12 at the time (I was 30). In the teen's case I totally blame the medication for the boy's behavior. Another victory for the self serving drug company. Their drugs do no wrong. Didn't you know it's the people who are fully to blame for adverse reactions? And the dangerous behavior that can result? If there were 12 people just like me on that jury he would have been acquitted in 15 minutes. As they say, unless you've been there, you just don't know.
Tom
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2005, at 22:20:24
In reply to Re: Serotonin Syndrome » up'n'down, posted by franco neuro on February 16, 2005, at 14:58:37
> they should have let him kill himself.
>
> JayDee> I find your post quite callous and typical of Americans' hypocritical way of dealing with its children and teens.
>
> cubbybear> I'm surprised you didn't kill someone :-)
>
> franco neuroPlease don't suggest that anyone harm themselves, post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, or joke about death.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2005, at 22:24:14
In reply to Re: Miscarriage of justice, posted by TomV on February 16, 2005, at 21:46:28
> In the teen's case I totally blame the medication for the boy's behavior. Another victory for the self serving drug company. Their drugs do no wrong. Didn't you know it's the people who are fully to blame for adverse reactions? And the dangerous behavior that can result?
Sorry about the extra click, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding justice to Psycho-Babble Politics. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20050122/msgs/459071.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by up'n'down on February 17, 2005, at 2:00:54
In reply to Re: Serotonin Syndrome » up'n'down, posted by franco neuro on February 16, 2005, at 14:58:37
> Haha...sorry to hear about that lemon bar. I'm surprised you didn't kill someone :-) I'm on Zoloft right now and recently i tried a little self experimentation by popping some 5htp with it. Oh boy did i get all twitchy like! One of these days i'm really gonna mess myself up. Oh wait...i'm already messed up...
Hey, I like your sense of humor, although I was a bit concerned about the word "killing" but this has already been taken care of. We use a lot of terms that we don't think about at the time, and then it's into trouble we get. It is called foot and mouth disease-open mouth and insert foot.
With the extra serotonin I have in my system, I am flying high. I wish I could share some with Linkadge or some of you others who are so down right now. If I could harness this energy, just think what I could do with it. I have accomplished more in two days than I did in all of 2004! Of course it will soon end, and then who knows what exciting things I get to experience next. I do feel like a regular Calamity Jane. U'D
Posted by franco neuro on February 17, 2005, at 20:57:50
In reply to mixed messages, posted by up'n'down on February 17, 2005, at 2:00:54
I knew I should have avoided this thread. I've only been on this site 2 days and I'm already getting into trouble! Didn't anyone see the happy face at the end of that sentence? :-) That's supposed to designate "laughter intended". Oh well...I guess I'll just blame any unintended inappropriateness on my screwed up mental state. I'm basically in a perpetual state of semi-consciousness. Apparantly I have plenty of seratonin, however, I'm in dire need of dopamine! So why am I taking Zoloft and Klonopin? Time for medication augmentation...
Posted by cubbybear on February 17, 2005, at 21:05:37
In reply to Re: mixed messages » up'n'down, posted by franco neuro on February 17, 2005, at 20:57:50
Even for those who have been fans of this site for a long time, you have to be careful. Dr. Bob watches us continuously for inappropriate comments. I myself thought that my comments about the Zoloft case would be inoffensive but evidently I got a warning too. And unfortunately, we can't blame it on our mental states or medications!
Posted by franco neuro on February 17, 2005, at 23:12:53
In reply to Re: mixed messages » franco neuro, posted by cubbybear on February 17, 2005, at 21:05:37
> Even for those who have been fans of this site for a long time, you have to be careful. Dr. Bob watches us continuously for inappropriate comments. I myself thought that my comments about the Zoloft case would be inoffensive but evidently I got a warning too. And unfortunately, we can't blame it on our mental states or medications!
I hear ya'...I just figured if there's any site on the entire web that could use a little humor it's this one. I mean I'm a depressed, unmotivated, anhedonic, medicated loon, so I speak from my heart when I say this. Sometimes a chuckle is all it takes to bring somebody back from the edge of the abyss...
"So...anyone have any thoughts on the dual role of dopamine as an inhibitory and excitatory modulator of neurotransmitter functions?" He said, as he slowly tiptoed out of this most upsetting thread. Never to return again...
Posted by Phillipa on February 17, 2005, at 23:51:37
In reply to Re: mixed messages » franco neuro » cubbybear, posted by franco neuro on February 17, 2005, at 23:12:53
I hope you'll come back! We need people who have a sense of humor. I guess Dr. Bob just doesn't want to provoke someone to do something that might harm themselves, or hurt others feelings even if we feel it is harmless. You're smart {I think}, and funny. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by cubbybear on February 18, 2005, at 0:07:25
In reply to Re: mixed messages » franco neuro » cubbybear, posted by franco neuro on February 17, 2005, at 23:12:53
Perhaps it's a good idea to bail out of the original thread--ths is a very controversial topic. But there's no need to bail out of Psychobabble. Nothing is perfect.
And I agree-there are times when I'd like to inject some real inoffensive humor into a post, but feel a bit inhibited about doing it because, let's face it, we're so hung up on our pain and feelings of blackness, that's it's difficult to be funny.
Posted by up'n'down on February 18, 2005, at 1:50:23
In reply to Re: mixed messages » franco neuro » cubbybear, posted by franco neuro on February 17, 2005, at 23:12:53
> > Even for those who have been fans of this site for a long time, you have to be careful. Dr. Bob watches us continuously for inappropriate comments. I myself thought that my comments about the Zoloft case would be inoffensive but evidently I got a warning too. And unfortunately, we can't blame it on our mental states or medications!
>
>
>
> I hear ya'...I just figured if there's any site on the entire web that could use a little humor it's this one. I mean I'm a depressed, unmotivated, anhedonic, medicated loon, so I speak from my heart when I say this. Sometimes a chuckle is all it takes to bring somebody back from the edge of the abyss...
>
> "So...anyone have any thoughts on the dual role of dopamine as an inhibitory and excitatory modulator of neurotransmitter functions?" He said, as he slowly tiptoed out of this most upsetting thread. Never to return again...Please return, franco neuro, or I will cry. I like your humor, and you didn't do anything that bad. It's just that we are extremely sensitive to autosuggestion or whatever you call it. I don't have an answer to your question about dopamine-I'm sorry. I wish I was the "fix it up chappy" from Dr, Suess! U'D
Posted by franco neuro on February 18, 2005, at 12:40:48
In reply to mixed messages, posted by up'n'down on February 18, 2005, at 1:50:23
Thanks for the support. "We few...we unhappy few...we band of brothers/sisters...for indeed those of you who stood with me through these dark hours are indeed my mentally interesting siblings! From this day forward...until the end of time! Or at least until I get banned from the psycho-babble website!" (My apologies to Mr. Shakespeare. My Shakey's a bit shaky.)
To up'n'down: Please do not cry U'D. That would make me cry. That is if I could cry. Again with the anhedonia thing. Funny I didn't even know I had a "hedonia" until my pdoc said I lost it. :-)
To Phillipa: I've only been on this site for 2 or 3 days Phil, yet I feel like I've known you for at least 4 or 5 days. I figuratively take my hat off to the "Queen of Psychobabble!" And I'm not just kissing up to you because you {think} I may be smart and/or funny. I know you're smart and funny...i think... :-)
To cubbybear: Cubby your insight is keen...you are so very right...this thread is played out... :-)
Remember all great comedy is born of pain. (Not to imply that any of this has been great comedy. Or even good comedy.) Looking forward to rubbing elbows with all of you in the future. Under less "harrowing" circumstances. Hugs and kisses all around...time to pop my Zo-lift...
Posted by up'n'down on February 19, 2005, at 2:07:24
In reply to Re: mixed messages, posted by franco neuro on February 18, 2005, at 12:40:48
> Thanks for the support. "We few...we unhappy few...we band of brothers/sisters...for indeed those of you who stood with me through these dark hours are indeed my mentally interesting siblings! From this day forward...until the end of time! Or at least until I get banned from the psycho-babble website!" (My apologies to Mr. Shakespeare. My Shakey's a bit shaky.)
>
> To up'n'down: Please do not cry U'D. That would make me cry. That is if I could cry. Again with the anhedonia thing. Funny I didn't even know I had a "hedonia" until my pdoc said I lost it. :-)
>
> To Phillipa: I've only been on this site for 2 or 3 days Phil, yet I feel like I've known you for at least 4 or 5 days. I figuratively take my hat off to the "Queen of Psychobabble!" And I'm not just kissing up to you because you {think} I may be smart and/or funny. I know you're smart and funny...i think... :-)
>
> To cubbybear: Cubby your insight is keen...you are so very right...this thread is played out... :-)
>
> Remember all great comedy is born of pain. (Not to imply that any of this has been great comedy. Or even good comedy.) Looking forward to rubbing elbows with all of you in the future. Under less "harrowing" circumstances. Hugs and kisses all around...time to pop my Zo-lift...Don't go away, now. I like Mr Shakespeare,too. He was a fine observer of human behavior and had such a way of describing it. I often quote him when I'm talking to myself. For insomnia, I holler, "Macbeth hath murdered sleep". When I do something dumb, I say "frailty, thy name is woman".
I also go around saying, "to be or not to be, that is the question". And then I reply, "That is not the question--I am!". I believe Will knew what it was to suffer from severe mental/emotional stress, or he couldn't have described it so accurately.
For example, when Macbeth was talking to the Dr. about Lady Macbeth, he said, "Canst thou not minister to a mind diseased, pluck from the memory a rooted sorrow, raze out the written troubles of the brain and with some sweet oblivious antidote cleanse the stuff'd bosom of that perilous stuff which weighs upon the heart?" [I don't know that one completely by memory, so had to look it up.]
I'd better skedaddle or no one will want to read this. U'D
Posted by franco neuro on February 20, 2005, at 11:09:37
In reply to Feelings of uselessness, posted by up'n'down on February 19, 2005, at 2:07:24
Haha...that's pretty good. I need to find something to yell out when I can't sleep. Which is pretty much every night. Although It might create some problems with my neighbors. Right now I pretty much just mumble incoherently.
I'm quite impressed with your Shakespeare. I've pretty much forgotten everything I've ever learned. My school days are a blur. I was self medicating. Nothing too harsh mind you. Just painkillers of the fermented beverage kind.
I'm thinking of switching from Zoloft to another med. It doesn't seem to be doing much. "Alas poor Zoloft, I knew the well..." Ok that was a little weak. Maybe next time I go to my doc I'll yell out "A medication! A medication! My kingdom for a medication!" Or perhaps a heartflet entreaty to my fellow psychobabblers "Friends, bi-polars, schizos...I come to bury my neurosis, not to wallow in it..." (Ah if only I could bury it. I grow weary of it.) "Out Out damn depression!"
Posted by up'n'down on February 24, 2005, at 0:34:14
In reply to Re: Feelings of uselessness » up'n'down, posted by franco neuro on February 20, 2005, at 11:09:37
> Haha...that's pretty good. I need to find something to yell out when I can't sleep. Which is pretty much every night. Although It might create some problems with my neighbors. Right now I pretty much just mumble incoherently.
>
> I'm quite impressed with your Shakespeare. I've pretty much forgotten everything I've ever learned. My school days are a blur. I was self medicating. Nothing too harsh mind you. Just painkillers of the fermented beverage kind.
>
> I'm thinking of switching from Zoloft to another med. It doesn't seem to be doing much. "Alas poor Zoloft, I knew the well..." Ok that was a little weak. Maybe next time I go to my doc I'll yell out "A medication! A medication! My kingdom for a medication!" Or perhaps a heartflet entreaty to my fellow psychobabblers "Friends, bi-polars, schizos...I come to bury my neurosis, not to wallow in it..." (Ah if only I could bury it. I grow weary of it.) "Out Out damn depression!"I think you did pretty well coming up with appropriate paraphrasing of Shakespeare to make it fit with our problems.
In my case, I could just address my own diagnoses as "Anxiety, panic, manic, and other neurotransmitter diseases; I came to get rid of you, not to become miserable on side effects."
I think I'm coming down off the ceiling, and might end up back in the basement; am very sedated on regime pdoc has me on now, but have only one more day before I see her again. She is a life saver. U'D
This is the end of the thread.
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