Shown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sabre on February 4, 2005, at 1:04:36
What can use to dampen down glutamate?
sabre1: Neuroreport. 2005 Feb 8;16(2):183-186. Related Articles, Links
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15671874
Anterior cingulate neurochemistry in social anxiety disorder: 1H-MRS at 4 Tesla.Recent studies suggest exaggerated responses in the limbic system of patients with generalized social anxiety disorder in response to threat/anxiety-related social situations and aversive conditioning, processes mediated by the glutamatergic system. This single-voxel, high-field H-magnetic resonance spectroscopy study examined concentrations of glutamate, and other metabolites, in the anterior cingulate cortex and occipital cortex (control region) of 10 medication-naive patients with generalized social anxiety and 10 matched healthy comparison subjects. Glutamate (relative to creatine) levels were significantly higher in patients than controls in the anterior cingulate, but not occipital, cortex. Anterior cingulate glutamate/creatine levels were also correlated with intensity of social anxiety symptoms. These findings provide new evidence of glutamate's involvement in the neural mechanism underlying social phobia.
PMID: 15671874 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Posted by linkadge on February 4, 2005, at 13:47:35
In reply to Glutamate and social anxiety, posted by sabre on February 4, 2005, at 1:04:36
I would use Vitamin C, and Theanine.
Or just plain drink green tea. Contains theanine and Vitamin C.
Both Theanine and Vitamin C, buffer excessive glutamate release.
Linkadge
Posted by sabre on February 4, 2005, at 14:36:35
In reply to Re: Glutamate and social anxiety, posted by linkadge on February 4, 2005, at 13:47:35
Thanks Linkadge
I haven't got around to trying theanine yet but I will.GABA is derived from glutamate, so what happens to GABA levels if you inhibit glutamate? I've read that glutamine and pyruvate can act as precursors to GABA, so do you suppose they might come into play more?
sabre
PS Hope you are feeling better now, Linkadge
Posted by TheOutsider on February 4, 2005, at 16:08:45
In reply to Glutamate and social anxiety, posted by sabre on February 4, 2005, at 1:04:36
Thanks Sabre, interesting post
I found that Nicergoline, a med that elivates glutimate levels made my social anxiety worse.
Posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2005, at 18:33:51
In reply to Re: Glutamate and social anxiety, posted by TheOutsider on February 4, 2005, at 16:08:45
This is interesting. Keep Posting! Phillipa
Posted by Jakeman on February 5, 2005, at 0:25:12
In reply to Re: Glutamate and social anxiety, posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2005, at 18:33:51
I am not a bio-chemist and don't have a clear understanding of the various glutmate-glutamine-glutamic acid mechanisms of action. But I have found that L-glutamine supplementation reduces my anxiety and make me more pro-social, usually. There are a lot of pro and con statements on the web about its use...I expect it depends on one's individual biochemistry and finding the right balance. There are several case reports of glutamine helping depression and anxiety for people who are in a lot of stress and/or have alcohol and sugar cravings. Perhaps they need the extra "brain fuel."
Here's a couple of links along this line:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040928/msgs/403538.html
(any comments mmb if your're around?)http://www.naturalhealthweb.com/articles/esparza1.html
Jake
Posted by sabre on February 5, 2005, at 16:31:52
In reply to Re: Glutamate and social anxiety to all, posted by Jakeman on February 5, 2005, at 0:25:12
Thanks for the glutamine information, Jake.
Every article seems to spark the need to read a dozen more articles to fill in all the gaps.
I tried glutamine haphazardly a few years ago for gut problems and to improve my immunity to viruses etc. However I found that by eliminating gluten for a couple of years these problems eased. I didn't take it regularly to detect any psychological benefit.
After reading the glutamine information, I think I'll try it.
I'm curious to find out more about the blood brain barrier, especially after just trying Picamilon with poor results. As glutamine doesn't need any assistance to through the barrier it sounds appealing.
I'm still a little concerned about raising the glutamate levels too high. What if you have a glitch in your glutamate to GABA pathway? I suppose that's why they warn epileptics about taking glutamine.
One point about the article...on pg 5 they said that glutamate and glutamic acid were different substances. I thought they were the same thing???
Thanks again
sabre
Posted by Jakeman on February 5, 2005, at 23:42:45
In reply to Re: Glutamate and social anxiety to all, posted by sabre on February 5, 2005, at 16:31:52
Sabre,
I wonder too about the questions you raised. I sent an email to the author of the article inviting him to join this discussion.
I agree, one report sparks the need to read more. Some the articles about this subject have conflicting conclusions. Maybe others would like to comment, Lar are your still around?..It's been rather quiet here lately. Thanks to everyone. This is a great board with great people.Jake
> Thanks for the glutamine information, Jake.
>
> Every article seems to spark the need to read a dozen more articles to fill in all the gaps.
>
> I tried glutamine haphazardly a few years ago for gut problems and to improve my immunity to viruses etc. However I found that by eliminating gluten for a couple of years these problems eased. I didn't take it regularly to detect any psychological benefit.
>
> After reading the glutamine information, I think I'll try it.
>
> I'm curious to find out more about the blood brain barrier, especially after just trying Picamilon with poor results. As glutamine doesn't need any assistance to through the barrier it sounds appealing.
>
> I'm still a little concerned about raising the glutamate levels too high. What if you have a glitch in your glutamate to GABA pathway? I suppose that's why they warn epileptics about taking glutamine.
>
> One point about the article...on pg 5 they said that glutamate and glutamic acid were different substances. I thought they were the same thing???
>
> Thanks again
> sabre
Posted by SLS on February 6, 2005, at 7:44:26
In reply to Glutamate and social anxiety, posted by sabre on February 4, 2005, at 1:04:36
> What can use to dampen down glutamate?
> sabre
>
> 1: Neuroreport. 2005 Feb 8;16(2):183-186. Related Articles, Links
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15671874
>
> Anterior cingulate neurochemistry in social anxiety disorder: 1H-MRS at 4 Tesla.
>
> Recent studies suggest exaggerated responses in the limbic system of patients with generalized social anxiety disorder in response to threat/anxiety-related social situations and aversive conditioning, processes mediated by the glutamatergic system. This single-voxel, high-field H-magnetic resonance spectroscopy study examined concentrations of glutamate, and other metabolites, in the anterior cingulate cortex and occipital cortex (control region) of 10 medication-naive patients with generalized social anxiety and 10 matched healthy comparison subjects. Glutamate (relative to creatine) levels were significantly higher in patients than controls in the anterior cingulate, but not occipital, cortex. Anterior cingulate glutamate/creatine levels were also correlated with intensity of social anxiety symptoms. These findings provide new evidence of glutamate's involvement in the neural mechanism underlying social phobia.
>
> PMID: 15671874 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
>Lamictal (lamotrigine) or Namenda (memantine) are more direct. Depakote is indirect.
- Scott
Posted by Iansf on February 6, 2005, at 20:37:19
In reply to Re: Glutamate and social anxiety » sabre, posted by SLS on February 6, 2005, at 7:44:26
This is so confusing. So it's either a good idea or a terrible idea to take glutamate for social phobia. If it's a good idea, presumably that means taking theanine or other substance that reduces glutamine would be bad; but if it's a bad idea, taking theanine would be good. Hmm. Too bad you can't both take it and not take it, then you'd have both bases covered.
Posted by theo on February 6, 2005, at 22:58:51
In reply to Re: Glutamate and social anxiety » sabre, posted by SLS on February 6, 2005, at 7:44:26
So glutamate increase or decrease is better? Would Lamictal or Depakote be better for social anxiety?
This is the end of the thread.
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