![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sjeng on January 29, 2005, at 19:03:16
I am currently taking Wellbutrin XL 150mg/day for depression and Adderall 10mg/day for ADD. I used to take Lexapro, which worked well but had nasty side effects, so I switched to Wellbutrin, which works better (for me). I worked this all out over a pretty long time with the doctor here in California, and would much prefer not to change it unless it stops working.
I am likely moving back to The Netherlands in a few months, where, as far as I understand, Wellbutrin is not available. Does anyone have any advice on the situation? Should I find somebody to give me off-label Zyban? Is Wellbutrin available in any of the surrounding countries (Belgium, Luxemburg, Germany, France)?
Posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2005, at 19:35:01
In reply to Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbutrin, posted by sjeng on January 29, 2005, at 19:03:16
Hi,
As far as I know, neither Zyban nor Wellbutrin are available in the Netherlands. Zyban is available in Belgium, France and Germany. It is also available in several other European countries.
Adderall isn't available anywhere in Europe. The closest drug is dextroamphetamine (called dexamfetamine in Europe). Dexamfetamine is certainly available in the UK. It is also used in Switzerland but doesn't seem to be used anywhere else in Europe. In most countries amphetamines are prohibited entirely.
Methylphenidate (Ritalin) is the only amphetamine-like drug available in the Netherlands. Have you ever tried it?
Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2005, at 20:17:50
In reply to Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbutrin, posted by sjeng on January 29, 2005, at 19:03:16
I can't believe none of the ADD, ADDHD drugs are available in Europe! Over here in the states a good proportion of children are on them for disruptive behavior in the classroom, and attention deficit. They are beginning to diagnose many adults with the same and Rxing these meds. Fondly Phillipa O
Posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2005, at 21:16:05
In reply to Re: Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbutrin » sjeng, posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2005, at 20:17:50
Hi,
>I can't believe none of the ADD, ADDHD drugs are available in Europe!
Ritalin is available in most European countries. There seems to be a tendency in Europe to view ADHD as an American phenomenon!!
Ed xx
Posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2005, at 22:12:54
In reply to Re: Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbutrin » Phillipa, posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2005, at 21:16:05
Hi again Ed! Why do you think this is happening? Is it the drug companies or the pdocs? Maybe Americans have more stress. I know vacations in Europe are longer. Also here we pay large amts of money each month to have health insurance and that is not enough to pay all the bill. Fondly, Phillipa OOO
Posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2005, at 22:24:14
In reply to Re: Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbutrin » ed_uk, posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2005, at 22:12:54
Hi,
>Why do you think this is happening? Is it the drug companies or the pdocs?
I think there is a greater tendency to 'medicalize' people's problems in the US. In most parts of the world, hyperactivity, impulsivity and inattention in children are rarely thought of as being medical problems. As a result, medical treatment with drugs is thought to be unsuitable.
Ed.
Posted by alohashirt on January 30, 2005, at 1:14:53
In reply to Re: Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbutrin » Phillipa, posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2005, at 22:24:14
I have a good (English) friend who is a psychiatrist and is astounded at the greater medicalization / medication here. Now he also remarks on the greater choice with tv channels, books, and CDs. For "high functioning adult adhd" the greater medication options can be viewed as greater possibilty to improve quality of life rather than fix a life-threatening neurological condition.
Inattentive ADHD will typically present as "achieveing below one's inherent capacity." When there is no classroom disruption its unsurprising that many may be overlooked.
Some people view inattention/procrastination as a moral weakness, lack of will, or sloth. As someone who work's their butt off to get beyond it this can be very, very frustrating. A medical diagnosis can be enormously empowering by virtue of naming a constellation of symptoms, regardless of the origin of this condition. ("Oh I'm not just a fXXX-up.")
It may be worth contacting a Dutch pdoc who has published papers on ADHD and getting their perspective. People are oten pretty happy to share information on their passion.
Posted by alohashirt on January 30, 2005, at 1:18:20
In reply to Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbutrin, posted by sjeng on January 29, 2005, at 19:03:16
Can your CA doctor ( ethically and legally ) continue to treat you while you are in Netherlands? Presumably he she can prescribe upto 90 days.
Can US web based doctors ethically and legally treat you when you're in Netherlands?
Posted by TheOutsider on January 30, 2005, at 9:18:23
In reply to Re: Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbu, posted by alohashirt on January 30, 2005, at 1:14:53
> I have a good (English) friend who is a psychiatrist and is astounded at the greater medicalization / medication here. Now he also remarks on the greater choice with tv channels, books, and CDs.
Wow your psychiatrist friend certainly sounds like a nice guy, is he still practising in England?
I'm desperate to find a good Doctor in the UK!
Posted by alohashirt on January 30, 2005, at 12:40:30
In reply to Re: Moving to The Netherlands -- Alohashirt, posted by TheOutsider on January 30, 2005, at 9:18:23
My friend is doing a foreign placement right now.
I'm thinking back to my time in London and trying to imagine what it would be like to "interview" a potential psychiatrist. I suspect that it's easier here in NYC, because doctors here will be accustomed to the abrasiveness, impatience of many of us NYers.Are there a pool of potential psychiatrists that
your GP can refer you to? Are you looking NHS or private? Are there clinics that specialize in your condition?Is there an equivalent to
http://www.newyorkmetro.com/bestdoctors/index.htm
Posted by TheOutsider on January 30, 2005, at 15:30:24
In reply to Re: Moving to The Netherlands -- Alohashirt, posted by alohashirt on January 30, 2005, at 12:40:30
Are there a pool of potential psychiatrists that
> your GP can refer you to? Are you looking NHS or private? Are there clinics that specialize in your condition?
htmHey Alohashirt
Thanks for your prompt reply
I'm afraid that Psychiatry in the UK is far less open than in the US, so there is no equivalent of the link you gave me.
I have long ago given up on getting any kind of help on the NHS, in my experience the standard of NHS Pdocs is usualy very poor, although you can get good ones if your lucky!
I am currently looking for a decent private doctor.
Unfortunatly Social Anxiety does not seem to be taken very seriesly in the UK, so as far as I know there are no clinics that specialise in it.
There might possibly be clinics that specilise in anxiety disorders, but there are none that specilise in social anxiety.I am currently seeing a Pdoc who is supposed to be top of his field in the UK, but even he has no idea how to treat social anxiety (!)
I'm seriesly thinking about traveling to the US to get treatment, but I'm still reluctant because of all the effort involved and the cost.
Posted by sjeng on January 30, 2005, at 20:37:01
In reply to Re: Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbutrin » sjeng, posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2005, at 19:35:01
I did some more research by myself, so I figured I'd post back to the
list. Thanks to all of you for your responses!> As far as I know, neither Zyban nor Wellbutrin are available in the
> Netherlands. Zyban is available in Belgium, France and Germany. It
> is also available in several other European countries.Zyban _is_ available in the Netherlands now. You can check through
www.epharma.nl, which is a biggish on-line pharmacy there. It's not
slow-release, and the price (EUR 43 for 30x150mg) is not covered by
insurance. (That is, it's not covered by the subsidized "ziekenfonds"
plan, which everyone else always follows.) I suppose if I get someone
to prescribe that, I could cough up the money from somewhere.> Adderall isn't available anywhere in Europe. The closest drug is
> dextroamphetamine (called dexamfetamine in Europe). Dexamfetamine
> is certainly available in the UK. It is also used in Switzerland
> but doesn't seem to be used anywhere else in Europe. In most
> countries amphetamines are prohibited entirely.
>
> Methylphenidate (Ritalin) is the only amphetamine-like drug
> available in the Netherlands. Have you ever tried it?No, I imagine it would probably work about as well. Originally my
doctor just wanted to increase the Wellbutrin, which supposedly works
for ADD too. It doesn't for me, and >150mg of Wellbutrin gives me
headaches. I then tried some of a friend's Adderall, which worked
better, and got her to prescribe that instead -- there was no other
deep underlying meaning to using Adderall rather than Ritalin.According to some national institute, the Dutch gov't allows Ritalin,
Dextro-amphetamine, and (of all things) imipramine for ADD treatment.
/jaap
Posted by ed_uk on January 31, 2005, at 8:52:46
In reply to Re: Moving to The Netherlands -- what about Wellbu, posted by sjeng on January 30, 2005, at 20:37:01
Hi,
>Zyban _is_ available in the Netherlands now.
That's a relief! Has it just been approved?
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.