![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Impermanence on January 6, 2005, at 14:51:35
I've read recently that Rohypnol is now banned in America and Australia and many other countries, but for media hype mainly. Put 100mg of diazepam into a drunkin girls drink with low benzo tolerance and she'll be out like a light for 12 hours at least and well groggy for the day. Rohypnol has saved my miserable sleeping problems, it works so well, better than any of the countless benzos and other sleeping aids I used, half an hour after I've takin it and I'm out for 8 or 9 hours. Yes it's a potent hypnotic benzo that has been misused by evil scum but is that any reason to ban it. Thank God I live in Europe.
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2005, at 15:11:10
In reply to Rohypnol - The date rape drug!!!!!, posted by Impermanence on January 6, 2005, at 14:51:35
It was never banned in the UK (it is Schedule 3 here, as is temazepam)........
.............it's no longer marketed here though because it was so rarely prescribed. What country do you live in?
Ed.
Posted by Impermanence on January 6, 2005, at 15:25:44
In reply to Re: Rohypnol » Impermanence, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2005, at 15:11:10
I'm in Ireland at the moment, It's rarely prescribed here also, only in more extreme cases and/like withdrawals. At least we still have a choice of a useful drug like we should all do, thats media hype for you.
Still, I understand there is a lot of decent hypnotic benzodiazepines out there but from experience, nothing touches Rohypnol. Well I suppose a high enough dose of anything will do the job lol, but 1 to 2mg of Rohypnol works wonders.
Posted by slavegirl on January 6, 2005, at 15:36:17
In reply to Re: Rohypnol, posted by Impermanence on January 6, 2005, at 15:25:44
wow - also from Ireland...and surprised you'd ever get it here...we even have to fight for simple paracetemol (laugh!!!). Seriously Rohypnol has it's place ....and is great when you need it..I once had deep root cleaning surgery (which takes about 4 hours) and R saved my life (they book you off work for over 10 days for the pain you'll suffer) and R was great to help you sleep through it and cope with the pain. Tons of sleeping tabs can be dropped into drinks (and the hynotic ones will also make you forget what you've done and where you've been). Guess the answer is to WATCH YOUR DRINK!!!
SG
Posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 21:21:01
In reply to Rohypnol - The date rape drug!!!!!, posted by Impermanence on January 6, 2005, at 14:51:35
This drug really is used a lot for date rape (as well as rape w/o the date) in America. This very well may be a problem that is concentrated in America and is not as big of a problem in Europe. Ruffies (that's their nickname here) are a widespread problem on college campuses, in particular in fraternity houses.
There were a few rape incidents with Ruffies at my college when I was there, and that was at a fairly conservative school with a relatively tame fraternity system. The problems are much worse at some of the more notorious "party schools" around the country.
In America, at least, I am very happy to see Rohypnol banned because I just don't think having another sleep drug on the market is as important as protecting hapless 18 year old college girls from being raped.
Posted by jerrympls on January 7, 2005, at 22:17:22
In reply to Rohypnol - The date rape drug!!!!!, posted by Impermanence on January 6, 2005, at 14:51:35
It'a all fueled my media hype. Alcohol by itself is a date-rape drug. Any benzo or opiate for that matter could work just as well as date-rape drugs. The media and celebrities really screw up things for people who really need certain medications that they sensationalize as "evil" drugs. UGH.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2005, at 22:59:37
In reply to Re: Rohypnol - The date rape drug!!!!!, posted by jerrympls on January 7, 2005, at 22:17:22
> It'a all fueled my media hype... The media and celebrities really screw up things for people who really need certain medications that they sensationalize as "evil" drugs. UGH.
Can anything be done about that? And do you think that kind of thing ever happens here, too?
Bob
Posted by jasmineneroli on January 7, 2005, at 23:45:00
In reply to Re: people who really need certain medications, posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2005, at 22:59:37
Good point Bob!
I do think sensationalized negative posts are made here, about certain medications.
I don't find them helpful at all.
I sometimes question the motives of some posters.
It would seem to me that any drug can be useful to SOMEONE, given the right circumstances.It's much more productive to post opinions, experiences and information about medications (both positive and negative), rather than to make dramatic statements, with tabloid-style subject lines!
People come here for help, or with curiosity. They don't need to be fed anti-drug propoganda.
I think there's a bit of a trend towards anti-benzo-ism here lately, for instance.I think we can self-regulate here at Babble. Perhaps by posting reasoned rebuttals to hysteria-raising posts and/or a simple "I don't appreciate scaremongering posts" nm ,subject only, post!
As to GHB, Xyrem, Rohypnol etc.- let's hear from users that have been helped. I hate to think a good medication can get a bad rep. and people are prevented from benefitting from it, just because the tabloid loving populace has turned it into an "urban myth".
Any suggestions, yourself, Bob?
Regards,
Jas
Posted by jasmineneroli on January 7, 2005, at 23:47:49
In reply to Re: Rohypnol - The date rape drug!!!!!, posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 21:21:01
BTW, I didn't mean to imply that this thread had a tabloid subject line.
Jas
Posted by Iansf on January 8, 2005, at 18:16:18
In reply to Re: Rohypnol - The date rape drug!!!!!, posted by jerrympls on January 7, 2005, at 22:17:22
> It'a all fueled my media hype. Alcohol by itself is a date-rape drug. Any benzo or opiate for that matter could work just as well as date-rape drugs. The media and celebrities really screw up things for people who really need certain medications that they sensationalize as "evil" drugs. UGH.
I know very little about rohypnol, but I was wondering if perhaps it's banned because it's more difficult to detect if mixed into a drink. Most drugs that might be used surreptitiously aren't that easy to disguise because of their strong taste. Does anyone know if rohypnol is neutral tasting?
Posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 18:53:46
In reply to Re: Rohypnol - The date rape drug!!!!!, posted by Iansf on January 8, 2005, at 18:16:18
Hi!
Flunitrazepam itself is tasteless and odorless. Roche, the manufacturer, has incorporated a stong blue dye into the tablets to increase visibility if placed in drinks. It has been reported that blue drinks have been used to overcome this however.
In April 1999 Roche said...
'Roche recently introduced a new formulation of Rohypnol which releases a blue dye and dissolves very slowly in liquids. The new formulation has received approval in 30 countries including Mexico, Colombia, Argentina, Britain, and most of Europe, and is awaiting approval from authorities in the rest of the 80 countries in which the medication is prescribed.'
Ed.
PS. Remember that alcohol is the number 1 date rape drug. GHB is also used.
Posted by slavegirl on January 9, 2005, at 7:21:19
In reply to Re: Rohypnol » Iansf, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 18:53:46
Guess we all forget too easily how evil alcohol can be...in every single way, and quickly turn to all the drugs we find so useful and blame them.... I used to take a sleeping tablet named Stilnoct and although it wasn't as potent as Rohypnol, it had a very similar effect. Also interesting, I read the book on Bob Geldoff, Paula Yates and Michael Hutchins (spelling??) and both Paula and Michael were hooked on R....Paula took it mainly because of his bizarre sexual antics and appetite...so she could be 'totally out of it' when all the 'abuse on her body' took place....very sad actually.
SG
Posted by jclint on January 9, 2005, at 9:30:48
In reply to Re: Rohypnol » Iansf, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 18:53:46
Surely a good safety measure would be to give it a strong chemical taste when its dissolved? I would imagine it wouldn't be too hard to do.
Posted by Dan Perkins on January 9, 2005, at 10:25:04
In reply to Re: Rohypnol, posted by jclint on January 9, 2005, at 9:30:48
Yes, this I would agree with. Read an aticle mentioning that they now use a blue dye to color so that it shows up in clear liquids, but I can understand why they wouldn't also ad some very potent chemical taste that would come across even in alcohol.
I understand all the posts here about alcohol being the #1 date rape drug, but the difference is that when you are drinking alcohol you know you are drinking alcohol. With rohypnol, a flavorless and before now colorless substance, you could have it slipped in your diet coke and you wouldn't know what hit you.
I was watching an episode of Cops on Friday that took place in New Orleans. One of the arrests was of a young man who somebody witnessed dropping pills into two girls' drinks at a night club. When the cops busted him, they found a bottle of rohypnol on him. This does happen and the fact that alcohol is a bigger problem does not excuse what is being done with rohypnol.
> Surely a good safety measure would be to give it a strong chemical taste when its dissolved? I would imagine it wouldn't be too hard to do.
Posted by ed_uk on January 9, 2005, at 11:33:53
In reply to Re: Rohypnol, posted by Dan Perkins on January 9, 2005, at 10:25:04
>With rohypnol, a flavorless and before now colorless substance, you could have it slipped in your diet coke and you wouldn't know what hit you.
Hi Dan,
I agree with what you're saying.
Most benzos can and are used for date rape eg. Ativan, Xanax, Halcion, Klonopin, Valium, Restoril etc. Ambien is also used.
BTW, some generic manufacturers apparantly make colorless flunitrazepam tabs.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by Impermanence on January 9, 2005, at 22:26:32
In reply to Re: Rohypnol - The date rape drug!!!!!, posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 21:21:01
There's a date rape problem here like everywhere, and America banning useful Rohypnol is not going to solve any date rape problem. You'll still be able to buy it on the net and on the street and anyother hypnotic benzodiazepine will do the same job just like many other drugs. At least Rohypnol has a blue dye in it.
The problem is with society not Rohypnol. It's media hype, and when the government bans the drug it works in there favour with the duller masses. It's just the same as making any drug illegal, it doesen't solve any problem, only pushes it underground and dirty and fuels billions for gangsters. Over here in Ireland we have the highest drug and alcohol abuse problem in Europe. Drugs are everywhere and the E, coke and smack people take is cut with all sorts of dirt. It's a dangerous underground scene where gangsters profit and people get shot.
Teenagers just being teenagers out clubbing on a few E get cought with drugs and get a criminal record that will effect them later in life when theve grown up and out of the drug phase.
The government could legalize all drugs, make them safe with strict control, educate everybody properly, use the high tax (which would be an enormous amout of money) to open proper free drug treatment centers to help those that want help to get help. It's impossible to get decent treatment places here if you can't afford it, and the waiting list could be a year long, it's a joke. Private ones cost from E4,000 to E12,000 for one months stay. The money could also be used to find ways to fulfill the empty void inside society that seems to need drugs to fill.
It would do serious damage to the criminal underground. Kids just being kids with a bit of weed woulden't get a criminal record. People could take clean drugs in safe environments with the right medical care if things go wrong. Clean needles for junkies. Kids could talk to their perents without being afrid, the subject would be open for all with no fear or misunderstanding.
Police could use the huge wasted resources on more serious issues.
Anyone who wants any drug over here can get it in abundence anywhere. The problem woulden't get any worse if it was legal, it would only get better. Everyone I know uses drugs or abused drugs at some point, it's huge and drugs being illegal only makes things worse, dark and underground.
Look at Amsterdam, Ireland has a far higher cannabis and all drug abuse problem than Holland, I'm actually very stoned as I write this lol. Because kids grow up there thinking weed is no big deal and it's ok to talk and know about it, it lessons the attraction. Anyone whose going to smoke weed will smoke it regardless of if it's illegal or not.
Look at Prohibition in America. "PROHIBITION (1920–1933 R.I.P.) was known as The Noble Experiment. The results of the experiment are clear: innocent people suffered; organized crime grew into an empire; the police, courts, and politicians became increasingly corrupt; disrespect for the law grew; and the per capita consumption of the prohibited substance—alcohol—increased dramatically, year by year, for the thirteen years of this Noble Experiment, never to return to the pre-1920 levels.
You would think that an experiment with such clear results would not need to be repeated; but the experiment is being repeated; it's going on today. Only the prohibited substances have changed. The results remain the same. They are more devastating now than they were then."
In France they have a very relaxed attude to alcohol, they drink wine every day, kids drink it at dinner, it's no big deal. In Ireland you grow up and you're told you can't do this you can't do that, fear, fear, trouble ect. It's not a relaxed attude and we have one of the highest drink problems in the world and most certainly in Europe followed closely by the U.K. which is the exact same culture and attitude as Ireland. People binge over here, everything has to be extreme and in excess, it's so fast paced. Everythings now,now,now. People get drunk to quick and theres chaos on the streets of the citys at night.Society is seriously flawed in it's attude to drugs. It all needs to be put on the table and rewritten, people need to be reprogrammed, mind sets changed, people need to be properly educated not filled with fear. Tolerance will bring calm. It's getting more like George Orwell's novel 1984 every day, you can't turn without being on camera, all brainwashed by the media, the whole world is crazy. We're controlled and manipulated like little robots and the handful that tells us what to do are doing it for money and power and they don't seem to have a clue how to deal with a drug problem or really care, as long as the rich keep getting richer who cares. Hell everyone even knows the C.I.A. are the biggest drug dealers in the world, funding there secret missions to create wars around the world to promote "new democracy" in Americas favour, well a handful of bankers and shareholders in the multinational corporations of America.
Man I've just gone on a rant, sorry, as I said, stoned!!!
Yea about Rohypnol, If you're sick enough and your mind is distorted enough to rape another human being and devastate there lives with no compassion, you're going to do it whether or not Rohypnol is banned.
It's society that needs to change. Not the drugs.
Posted by dancingstar on January 10, 2005, at 0:42:06
In reply to Re: people who really need certain medications, posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2005, at 22:59:37
Unless I am mistaken, what we are both asking for is truth in advertising, though it may not seem that way.
My concern, Dr. Bob, is threefold: first, that I don't believe that more than one fourth of all E use is prescribed by pdoctors.
2nd: If somone is predisposed to a bad reaction, neither the patient nor the doctor (other than psychiatrists -- and even many of them don't seem to know) know what to look out for because the patient's reaction to the drug seems to change three- to six-months after beginning treatment w/E.
3rd: If someone is going to have a tough time with withdrawal (which W prefers to call "discontinuation syndrome" -- (not truth in advertising) -- there is no way to get through it without pain and sufferring. There is no anecdote available unless the person is switched to a similar drug. Weaning is an option but only works for some people.
I understand that E, what we all know is a very powerful drug, is now being given somewhat routinely to vets returning from Iraq as well as for hot flashes (based on eight-week studies -- I've got the links) and fatigue, though it causes fatigue and weight loss, though it causes weight gain; and can't help but think that it is a scheme to make money rather than to do what will best serve the health care of the people involved.
There isn't any alarm intended; I'm just trying to get the facts out. Getting caught off guard is not fair to anyone.
Doctors that prescribes this drug should have to take it for a year and then be forced to quit cold turkey and so should the people in charge of marketing at Wyeth -- especially if it's so safe -- like those of us without depression that were given it by family practice docs that didn't advise us differently cause they were given the incorrect information by W marketing reps.
It's just another problem in a world that already has too many, but this one seems to have caught my attention because it grabbed ahold of my health. And if it counts or matters, at least 25 other people have written to me that are in pain in addition to what happened to me. I don't think that I am an isolated incident, and it's not just a couple of us that are making a fuss.
Thank you and many blessings,
Bebe
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 11, 2005, at 0:37:23
In reply to Re: Rohypnol - The date rape drug!!!!! » Dan Perkins, posted by Impermanence on January 9, 2005, at 22:26:32
> There's a date rape problem here like everywhere, and America banning useful Rohypnol is not going to solve any date rape problem.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding banning drugs to Psycho-Babble Politics. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20041129/msgs/440482.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by joebob on February 20, 2005, at 15:38:16
In reply to Re: people who really need certain medications, posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2005, at 22:59:37
years primarily due to exogenous stressors, and have tried many meds....
in my experience Rohypnol was the best sleep med i have ever tried...works great, no hangover, not addictive...
i had a chance to try it in a cancer clinic in a foreign country while visiting a friend.....
when i heard it was being banned in the u.s. i was compelled to wonder if it was simply too good, compared to the alternatives which are less effective, more addictive and more expensive.....
my short trial made me wonder if it were not the last best of the benzodiazepines for sleep, and if there were not economic reasons for its' current status........
i personally do not feel banning this substance will stop date rape, but that a very valuable medication is being denied to people who might need it....
fyi..i am hesitant to post on such a subject, but i like and trust you and respect the work you are trying to do, so i am willing to be honest and open with youi refer you to this citation for further info:
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/flunit.htm
thanks for your good work, and wish i could come to our birthday party......it's a great idea!
joebob
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.