![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 16:58:09
or did you have a spontaneous hypertensive crisis while on Parnate?
Posted by gardenergirl on December 26, 2004, at 18:18:07
In reply to Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food?, posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 16:58:09
I might have had a mild one twice. Both times were not bad enough to seek treatment...just felt like a migraine, and I know how to handle those (from experience). Once was due to turkey giblets (probably including the liver) in the dressing, and the other was likely due to Tia Maria in some cheesecake (darn it was good, though!)
gg
Posted by KaraS on December 26, 2004, at 18:43:22
In reply to Re: Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food? » KaraS, posted by gardenergirl on December 26, 2004, at 18:18:07
> I might have had a mild one twice. Both times were not bad enough to seek treatment...just felt like a migraine, and I know how to handle those (from experience). Once was due to turkey giblets (probably including the liver) in the dressing, and the other was likely due to Tia Maria in some cheesecake (darn it was good, though!)
>
> gg
gg,Yes, I remember you had problems from those two things and they are now etched in my brain as things to look out for. I never would have thought about turkey dressing or liqueur in cheesecake. Thanks for the warning!
Did you take anything for the crises, or since they were mild, did you just ride them out?
K
Posted by gardenergirl on December 27, 2004, at 16:30:16
In reply to Re: Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food? » gardenergirl, posted by KaraS on December 26, 2004, at 18:43:22
I took what I usually do for a migraine: excedrin and sleep. And then I vowed to travel with my blood pressure cuff since both times it happened when I was out of town. That's why I don't know for sure that my BP rose. But the headache was pretty horrible. If it happens again (God forbid!) and I am able to verify that my BP is spiking I will probably go to the ER. Although that is also a daunting idea given others' experiences with hypertensive crises and ER visits.
gg
Posted by KaraS on December 27, 2004, at 21:07:37
In reply to Re: Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food? » KaraS, posted by gardenergirl on December 27, 2004, at 16:30:16
> I took what I usually do for a migraine: excedrin and sleep. And then I vowed to travel with my blood pressure cuff since both times it happened when I was out of town. That's why I don't know for sure that my BP rose. But the headache was pretty horrible. If it happens again (God forbid!) and I am able to verify that my BP is spiking I will probably go to the ER. Although that is also a daunting idea given others' experiences with hypertensive crises and ER visits.
>
> gg
So you're not positive that they were hypertensive crises because you are prone to migraines anyway.... If they were crises then, as you say, they were mild ones because otherwise you probably would have been in worse shape, no?BTW, what kind of blood pressure cuff do you use? Are the cheapest ones at the drugstore accurate enough? I saw a wide range of choices and prices the last time I looked.
I keep reading that Thorazine is the best thing to carry in case of a crisis because it works gently and it doesn't lower your blood pressure too much (so you don't have to try to monitor your pressure in the midst of a ciris). Thorazine itself sounds a bit scary but it seems better than going to the ER as you described it.
Thanks again, gg
Posted by jujube on December 28, 2004, at 13:00:39
In reply to Re: Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food? » gardenergirl, posted by KaraS on December 27, 2004, at 21:07:37
Hi Kara!
Just wondering if you have made a final decision about trying either Nardil or Parnate? In a previous thread, you mentioned that you had a pdoc appointment early in the new year. Do you only plan to discuss a MAOI for treatment, or do you have other alternatives you are going to raise? Have you continued with the wash-out in anticipation of your appointment? Geez, I sure am nosy aren't I!
I started taking Thermotabs (buffered salt tablets) in an attempt to raise my blood pressure a bit so that I can try to increase my dose of Anafranil without experiencing so much dizziness. The NADH has certainly helped, though, in terms of energy, which is most welcome. Enough about me.
Well, whatever you decide, I wish you all the best luck and success.
Take care Kara, and I will talk to you another time.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on December 28, 2004, at 14:56:51
In reply to Kara - Have you come to a decision? » KaraS, posted by jujube on December 28, 2004, at 13:00:39
> Hi Tamara,
>
> Just wondering if you have made a final decision about trying either Nardil or Parnate? In a previous thread, you mentioned that you had a pdoc appointment early in the new year. Do you only plan to discuss a MAOI for treatment, or do you have other alternatives you are going to raise? Have you continued with the wash-out in anticipation of your appointment? Geez, I sure am nosy aren't I!No, not nosy at all. I was thinking more along the lines of VERY SWEET AND CONSIDERATE! I'm still completely unmedicated and it's been interesting to say the least. I'm only using the niacinamide currently to ward off the anxiety. (I've just recently increased my vitamin D and my fish oil though and will continue to increase the latter.) The crying at the drop of a hat is still a problem. It's like having constant PMS and I have no control over it. It's very wierd because my conscious mind knows that there's no reason to cry - yet the floodgates open nonetheless.
I have gone back and forth on the Parnate/Nardil decision many times. When my anxiety was out of control I was favoring Nardil but now that that is in check I'm leaning towards Parnate again. My anxiety problems can be quite severe but it's very treatable. Any SSRI or TCA I've been on has completely "cured" me. My biggest problem by far then becomes the lack of energy/motivation followed by the brain fog/concentration issues. Parnate fits that bill better. I could always add in a little bit of a sedating tricyclic for anxiety/insomnia if needed. I have yet to see if my pdoc will go for the Parnate though. I'll see when I can talk to him in the new year. There's also one other health issue that I have to make sure is not going to be a problem with an MAOI before I can start. So things are still up in the air.
I must confess I still do have my moments when I get scared and think about trying imipramine or something else instead.
> I started taking Thermotabs (buffered salt tablets) in an attempt to raise my blood pressure a bit so that I can try to increase my dose of Anafranil without experiencing so much dizziness. The NADH has certainly helped, though, in terms of energy, which is most welcome. Enough about me.That's interesting about your experiment with the salt tablets. Have you seen any benefit yet? I was thinking that you were going to change directions rather than increase your Anafranil - but maybe with the NADH and DMAE increasing your motivation, energy and focus, you're more content on the Anafranil. I don't think I tried DMAE at a strong enough dosage. NADH had no effect on me but all dopaminergics tend to not work well on me so at least until I can improve that situation, NADH isn't really an option unfortunately. From your other posts, it sounds like you're functioning really well now though you've still got issues to work on. Am I reading the situation correctly?
I'd don't know about you but I'd really prefer to be on only holistic type treatments. I just don't have the time now to taking the chance of trying lots of different things and giving them months of time. Nor do I have the money to get complete holistic testing done (but someday I hope to). My situation requires that I get fully functional and soon. Otherwise I'd have to give up my apartment and I can't bear to think about what would happen to my 2 cats.
> Well, whatever you decide, I wish you all the best luck and success.Thanks. You too, sweety.
> Take care Kara, and I will talk to you another time.Count on it!
KaraP.S. Thanks again for asking. Uh oh, eyes starting to water up again...
Posted by jujube on December 28, 2004, at 15:48:47
In reply to Re: Kara - Have you come to a decision? » jujube, posted by KaraS on December 28, 2004, at 14:56:51
> > Hi Kara,
>
> No, not nosy at all. I was thinking more along the lines of VERY SWEET AND CONSIDERATE! I'm still completely unmedicated and it's been interesting to say the least. I'm only using the niacinamide currently to ward off the anxiety. (I've just recently increased my vitamin D and my fish oil though and will continue to increase the latter.) The crying at the drop of a hat is still a problem. It's like having constant PMS and I have no control over it. It's very wierd because my conscious mind knows that there's no reason to cry - yet the floodgates open nonetheless.-- I can so relate to the crying at a drop of a hat. The past couple of days (post-Christmas) it has been bad. In my case, it is a combination of PMS, which just seems to get worse every year, and still feeling down. Hopefully the Vitex will start helping the PMS problems soon. But, it is frustrating to all of a sudden get weepy and not have any reason for it!
>
> I have gone back and forth on the Parnate/Nardil decision many times. When my anxiety was out of control I was favoring Nardil but now that that is in check I'm leaning towards Parnate again. My anxiety problems can be quite severe but it's very treatable. Any SSRI or TCA I've been on has completely "cured" me. My biggest problem by far then becomes the lack of energy/motivation followed by the brain fog/concentration issues. Parnate fits that bill better. I could always add in a little bit of a sedating tricyclic for anxiety/insomnia if needed. I have yet to see if my pdoc will go for the Parnate though. I'll see when I can talk to him in the new year. There's also one other health issue that I have to make sure is not going to be a problem with an MAOI before I can start. So things are still up in the air.-- If motivation/energy/concentration/focus are at the top of your list, then you are probably wise to go with the Parnate, especially since the niacinimide seems to be helping you with the anxiety. For insomnia, I have found that taking 500 mg of magnesium, with 375 mcg of chromium and 500 mg of Taurine seems to be helping me get quite a good night's sleep. I was surprised at how deeply I slept, with no night terrors, the first night I tried that combo.
>
> I must confess I still do have my moments when I get scared and think about trying imipramine or something else instead.
>
-- I know what you mean about being scared. I avoided meds for years and self-medicated. When I finally did take something (Paxil with a small amount of Xanax for emergencies), I was kicking myself for not having done it sooner. It's so important to find something that works well and that you are comfortable with. I am still trying to find the right combo. I had such high hopes for the Anafranil, and, perhaps, I will be able to tolerate a higher dose once I elevate my blood pressure a bit. Who knows. I go back to the pdoc in early January, so I have time to make some decisions and what's next.
>
> That's interesting about your experiment with the salt tablets. Have you seen any benefit yet? I was thinking that you were going to change directions rather than increase your Anafranil - but maybe with the NADH and DMAE increasing your motivation, energy and focus, you're more content on the Anafranil. I don't think I tried DMAE at a strong enough dosage. NADH had no effect on me but all dopaminergics tend to not work well on me so at least until I can improve that situation, NADH isn't really an option unfortunately. From your other posts, it sounds like you're functioning really well now though you've still got issues to work on. Am I reading the situation correctly?-- You are right. I have been thinking about changing directions. However, since I don't see the pdoc for a few weeks, I will give the Anafranil a little more time before giving up completely. I have to admit that the NADH/DMAE/Vitex combo has certainly given me some much needed energy. I still have issues, which I find not only frustrating but also embarrassing. When I get depressed and anxious, I develop a bit of an avoidance tendency with irrational fears, and get really nervous about doing certain things (like going out for dinner and to the mall). I have usually been able overcome these tendencies just by getting out and doing things, but this time it has gone on for a few months (it really came to a head when I was on Depo Provera) and it is getting harder to get back on track. I feel so ashamed of myself and so weak, and know that my family and friends are getting somewhat frustrated with me. I just have to keep reminding myself that "this too shall pass", and try to pull through. I have to return to work at the end of January, and I am scared that I will no longer be a good performer. Fortunately, I will be going on course for a two to three months upon my return. So that should make things a bit less stressful. Hopefully, my fearfulness will have subsided by then. It's so weird, I am not usually afraid of anything (except flying creatures and escalators). So, I don't know where these emotions are coming from.
> I'd don't know about you but I'd really prefer to be on only holistic type treatments. I just don't have the time now to taking the chance of trying lots of different things and giving them months of time. Nor do I have the money to get complete holistic testing done (but someday I hope to). My situation requires that I get fully functional and soon. Otherwise I'd have to give up my apartment and I can't bear to think about what would happen to my 2 cats.
-- I like the holistic approach as well. And, I think, when my health is relatively good, it is much easier to implement a holistic plan with success. I really haven't been in the best shape physically and emotionally for months and months, and realize that a strictly holistic approach may not have the UMPH I need to get through this episode. Like you with your precious cats, my little baby (my dog Dakota) needs me functional!
>
-- I had some relatively good news yesterday when my dad came over to exchange Christmas gifts, etc. There is a doctor that I have been trying to get in to see for months, but he isn't taking new patients. He is regarded as some kind of "witch doctor" (he's that good). He is trained in both Chinese and Western medicine, and, apparently, can tell you what is wrong with you just by looking at you. And, apparently, he is never wrong. The grandson of a friend of mom had severe asthma and was on two puffers. He was treated by this doctor, and barely uses a puffer anymore. A woman a friend of dad knows had been diagnosed with cerebral palsy years ago (by a number of doctors, including doctors at Johns Hopkins). When she went to him, he looked at her and said she had Muscular Dystrophy. She said no - she had Cerebral Palsy. He said no - MS. She went back to her doctor, had more tests done, and, sure enough, she has MS. Anyways, my dad has a friend who is very good friends with this doctor, and he told my dad if I wanted to see him, he would arrange it. So, I am very happy about that. I think he treats his patients with both traditional approaches and acupuncture. Anyways, he is supposed to be outstanding.Well keep me posted on how you are doing and the decisions you make. I'll be thinking good thoughts for you. Take care, and be good to yourself.
Tamara
Posted by jerrympls on December 28, 2004, at 18:05:28
In reply to Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food?, posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 16:58:09
I never had a hypertensive crisis while on Nardil and I still drank beer and ate pizza.
However, I did almost go into shock from serotonin syndrome by accidentally combining dextromethorphan (an OTC cough suppressant) and Nardil. I was in the ICU for a couple days.It was the worst experience of my life.
BE CAREFUL OF OTC COLD MEDS AND MAOIS.
Jerry
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 29, 2004, at 8:23:03
In reply to Re: Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food? » KaraS, posted by jerrympls on December 28, 2004, at 18:05:28
> I never had a hypertensive crisis while on Nardil and I still drank beer and ate pizza.
>
> However, I did almost go into shock from serotonin syndrome by accidentally combining dextromethorphan (an OTC cough suppressant) and Nardil. I was in the ICU for a couple days.It was the worst experience of my life.
>
> BE CAREFUL OF OTC COLD MEDS AND MAOIS.
>
> JerryI'm sorry you learned the hard way, Jerry.
Off limits are any cold medicine containing things like pseudoephedrine, chlorpheniramine, dextromethorphan,.....it's easier to say what is permitted. One drug, guaifenesin. It loosens phlegm and makes it easier to clear the chest and nasal passages. Other than that, tylenol and vitamin C.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on December 29, 2004, at 13:22:49
In reply to Re: Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food? » KaraS, posted by jerrympls on December 28, 2004, at 18:05:28
Posted by KaraS on December 29, 2004, at 14:08:57
In reply to Re: Kara - Have you come to a decision? » KaraS, posted by jujube on December 28, 2004, at 15:48:47
> > > Hi Kara,
> >
> > No, not nosy at all. I was thinking more along the lines of VERY SWEET AND CONSIDERATE! I'm still completely unmedicated and it's been interesting to say the least. I'm only using the niacinamide currently to ward off the anxiety. (I've just recently increased my vitamin D and my fish oil though and will continue to increase the latter.) The crying at the drop of a hat is still a problem. It's like having constant PMS and I have no control over it. It's very wierd because my conscious mind knows that there's no reason to cry - yet the floodgates open nonetheless.
>
> -- I can so relate to the crying at a drop of a hat. The past couple of days (post-Christmas) it has been bad. In my case, it is a combination of PMS, which just seems to get worse every year, and still feeling down. Hopefully the Vitex will start helping the PMS problems soon. But, it is frustrating to all of a sudden get weepy and not have any reason for it!So sorry you're experiencing the same thing but glad to hear I'm not alone. I didn't realize that the Anafranil response has been so incomplete for you. I just thought that you needed the dopaminergic activity added on to your antidepressant effect. Hopefully the Vitex will help with hormonal issues soon and you can figure out how much of the problem that contributed to and how much the antidepressant is actually doing. It's hard enough to try to deal with one problem but the other issues make it so much more complicated.
> > I have gone back and forth on the Parnate/Nardil decision many times. When my anxiety was out of control I was favoring Nardil but now that that is in check I'm leaning towards Parnate again. My anxiety problems can be quite severe but it's very treatable. Any SSRI or TCA I've been on has completely "cured" me. My biggest problem by far then becomes the lack of energy/motivation followed by the brain fog/concentration issues. Parnate fits that bill better. I could always add in a little bit of a sedating tricyclic for anxiety/insomnia if needed. I have yet to see if my pdoc will go for the Parnate though. I'll see when I can talk to him in the new year. There's also one other health issue that I have to make sure is not going to be a problem with an MAOI before I can start. So things are still up in the air.
>
> -- If motivation/energy/concentration/focus are at the top of your list, then you are probably wise to go with the Parnate, especially since the niacinimide seems to be helping you with the anxiety. For insomnia, I have found that taking 500 mg of magnesium, with 375 mcg of chromium and 500 mg of Taurine seems to be helping me get quite a good night's sleep. I was surprised at how deeply I slept, with no night terrors, the first night I tried that combo.Hmmm. I have taken chromium during the day but not at night. It helps with sleep, eh? I am taking 500 mg. of magnesium currently. I haven't tried taurine yet. Right now the niacinamide helps with sleep too. Actually, I haven't been taking it much in the last few days. I did take a small amount last night though but I'm still feeling like I can't breathe again now. I'll have to try a larger dose taken more regularly. If I still feel the breathing problems, I'll have to see a doctor. Sometimes it seems like 1 step forward and 2 steps back...
> > I must confess I still do have my moments when I get scared and think about trying imipramine or something else instead.
> >
> -- I know what you mean about being scared. I avoided meds for years and self-medicated. When I finally did take something (Paxil with a small amount of Xanax for emergencies), I was kicking myself for not having done it sooner. It's so important to find something that works well and that you are comfortable with. I am still trying to find the right combo. I had such high hopes for the Anafranil, and, perhaps, I will be able to tolerate a higher dose once I elevate my blood pressure a bit. Who knows. I go back to the pdoc in early January, so I have time to make some decisions and what's next.Are you on a low dose of Anafranil or mid-range? It's so unusual to hear of people trying to raise their blood pressure. Is yours low to begin with or is this a side effect from the Anafranil itself?
> > That's interesting about your experiment with the salt tablets. Have you seen any benefit yet? I was thinking that you were going to change directions rather than increase your Anafranil - but maybe with the NADH and DMAE increasing your motivation, energy and focus, you're more content on the Anafranil. I don't think I tried DMAE at a strong enough dosage. NADH had no effect on me but all dopaminergics tend to not work well on me so at least until I can improve that situation, NADH isn't really an option unfortunately. From your other posts, it sounds like you're functioning really well now though you've still got issues to work on. Am I reading the situation correctly?
>
> -- You are right. I have been thinking about changing directions. However, since I don't see the pdoc for a few weeks, I will give the Anafranil a little more time before giving up completely. I have to admit that the NADH/DMAE/Vitex combo has certainly given me some much needed energy. I still have issues, which I find not only frustrating but also embarrassing. When I get depressed and anxious, I develop a bit of an avoidance tendency with irrational fears, and get really nervous about doing certain things (like going out for dinner and to the mall). I have usually been able overcome these tendencies just by getting out and doing things, but this time it has gone on for a few months (it really came to a head when I was on Depo Provera) and it is getting harder to get back on track. I feel so ashamed of myself and so weak, and know that my family and friends are getting somewhat frustrated with me. I just have to keep reminding myself that "this too shall pass", and try to pull through. I have to return to work at the end of January, and I am scared that I will no longer be a good performer. Fortunately, I will be going on course for a two to three months upon my return. So that should make things a bit less stressful. Hopefully, my fearfulness will have subsided by then. It's so weird, I am not usually afraid of anything (except flying creatures and escalators). So, I don't know where these emotions are coming from.I know exactly what you're talking about regarding irrational fears especially when going out. It sounds like you might have GAD (General Anxiety Disorder) as I think I have right now. Sometimes even reading can elicit that fear in me. I tend to get like this when unmedicated though both the SSRIs and the TCAs seem to work well to counteract this in me. Unfortunately, the DMAE might be exacerbating the situation. (Better ask Lar)
> > I'd don't know about you but I'd really prefer to be on only holistic type treatments. I just don't have the time now to taking the chance of trying lots of different things and giving them months of time. Nor do I have the money to get complete holistic testing done (but someday I hope to). My situation requires that I get fully functional and soon. Otherwise I'd have to give up my apartment and I can't bear to think about what would happen to my 2 cats.
>
> -- I like the holistic approach as well. And, I think, when my health is relatively good, it is much easier to implement a holistic plan with success. I really haven't been in the best shape physically and emotionally for months and months, and realize that a strictly holistic approach may not have the UMPH I need to get through this episode. Like you with your precious cats, my little baby (my dog Dakota) needs me functional!I guess it's good that we have our "children" who need us. It give us more incentive to get well.
> -- I had some relatively good news yesterday when my dad came over to exchange Christmas gifts, etc. There is a doctor that I have been trying to get in to see for months, but he isn't taking new patients. He is regarded as some kind of "witch doctor" (he's that good). He is trained in both Chinese and Western medicine, and, apparently, can tell you what is wrong with you just by looking at you. And, apparently, he is never wrong. The grandson of a friend of mom had severe asthma and was on two puffers. He was treated by this doctor, and barely uses a puffer anymore. A woman a friend of dad knows had been diagnosed with cerebral palsy years ago (by a number of doctors, including doctors at Johns Hopkins). When she went to him, he looked at her and said she had Muscular Dystrophy. She said no - she had Cerebral Palsy. He said no - MS. She went back to her doctor, had more tests done, and, sure enough, she has MS. Anyways, my dad has a friend who is very good friends with this doctor, and he told my dad if I wanted to see him, he would arrange it. So, I am very happy about that. I think he treats his patients with both traditional approaches and acupuncture. Anyways, he is supposed to be outstanding.Wow! I'm always fascinated by those kinds of stories. I can't wait to hear about your meeting with him. Wish I could get an appointment!
> Well keep me posted on how you are doing and the decisions you make. I'll be thinking good thoughts for you. Take care, and be good to yourself.Same to you. Talk to you later.
Kara
Posted by jujube on December 29, 2004, at 18:27:45
In reply to Re: Kara - Have you come to a decision? » jujube, posted by KaraS on December 29, 2004, at 14:08:57
Hi Kara,
> So sorry you're experiencing the same thing but glad to hear I'm not alone. I didn't realize that the Anafranil response has been so incomplete for you. I just thought that you needed the dopaminergic activity added on to your antidepressant effect. Hopefully the Vitex will help with hormonal issues soon and you can figure out how much of the problem that contributed to and how much the antidepressant is actually doing. It's hard enough to try to deal with one problem but the other issues make it so much more complicated.
>
-- The Anafranil seemed to help somewhat at 50 mg, and I was quite enthusiastic because I felt better than I had in a while. But the response has been moderate, and I remain fatigued and melancholic. At least the NADH gave me the energy I needed to get things ready for Christmas and enjoy the day with my family when they came to my house. I actually had felt somewhat like my old self again, which tends to be hyper. The PMS is a big issue. My mood and energy levels take a real nosedive 10 to 14 days before it comes. The Vitex is helping some, but it can take up to 3 months for full effect. I might also try some Pregnenolone, which is supposed to be effective for PMS as well, and am thinking of adding some soy isoflavins. >> Hmmm. I have taken chromium during the day but not at night.
-- I find the chromium helps me. It is supposed to be good for anxiety and regulating blood sugar levels. Maybe that's why it helps.
Sometimes it seems like 1 step forward and 2 steps back...
-- I know what you mean. At the end of July, my iron had come up to almost the normal range, and I was starting to feel a bit more energetic and motivated. Then I got the Depo shot, and it was like a big old kick in the pants. I was worse than I had been before. The shot has worn off, which is good, but the worsening of depression it caused has not lifted. Tonight I will try 75 mg of Anafranil to see if I can tolerate it. Regardless, I remain hopeful that I will respond to something soon.
It's so unusual to hear of people trying to raise their blood pressure. Is yours low to begin with or is this a side effect from the Anafranil itself?
-- My blood pressure has always been on the low side, but not so low that it needs to be medically treated. Even when I am not on medication, I get really dizzy when I stand up and when I am standing for long periods (like when I take a hot or warm shower, standing in a line at the grocery store or waiting at a bus stop). Being on the Anafranil has made the dizziness even worse. I think the salt tablets are helping. I don't seem to be as dizzy when I stand up. So, time will tell.
> I know exactly what you're talking about regarding irrational fears especially when going out. It sounds like you might have GAD (General Anxiety Disorder) as I think I have right now. Sometimes even reading can elicit that fear in me. I tend to get like this when unmedicated though both the SSRIs and the TCAs seem to work well to counteract this in me. Unfortunately, the DMAE might be exacerbating the situation. (Better ask Lar-- I haven't found that the DMAE has increased my anxiety, but I will continue to monitor that. Thanks for the suggestion.
> I guess it's good that we have our "children" who need us. It give us more incentive to get well.-- It's nice to feel needed. My dog is such good company, and she keeps me active even when I am at my worst. Because of her, I have to get up and go for a couple of walks a day, which is good. When I am well, I will get back into the long, therapeutic walks along the river. It's so soothing to go for an hour or hour and a half walk to clear your head.
> Wow! I'm always fascinated by those kinds of stories. I can't wait to hear about your meeting with him. Wish I could get an appointment!
-- Maybe we could pass ourselves as Siamese twins and both go to see him! I hope I don't have to wait too long to see him. I'm kind of excited about it.
> Same to you. Talk to you later.
-- Bye for now.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on December 29, 2004, at 20:52:13
In reply to Re: Kara - Have you come to a decision? » KaraS, posted by jujube on December 29, 2004, at 18:27:45
> Hi Kara,
> -- I find the chromium helps me. It is supposed to be good for anxiety and regulating blood sugar levels. Maybe that's why it helps.Maybe I'll start taking it again. I still have a lot of it here. Couldn't hurt.
> Sometimes it seems like 1 step forward and 2 steps back...
>
> -- I know what you mean. At the end of July, my iron had come up to almost the normal range, and I was starting to feel a bit more energetic and motivated. Then I got the Depo shot, and it was like a big old kick in the pants. I was worse than I had been before. The shot has worn off, which is good, but the worsening of depression it caused has not lifted. Tonight I will try 75 mg of Anafranil to see if I can tolerate it. Regardless, I remain hopeful that I will respond to something soon.The Depo was a temporary setback and it's controlable (in other words you won't be getting any more of those shots). I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be straight uphill for you now. You did have a good response in the past from Paxil, right? Did it poop-out or are you looking for a more complete response now?
I'm getting so impatient. I really need to see two doctors regarding the anxiety/asthma issue and another one about an eye problem before I can feel safe to start on an MAOI. It seems like such a long haul before I can even start to take it. I guess the plus side is that the impatience is getting rid of some of the fear of starting on one.
> It's so unusual to hear of people trying to raise their blood pressure. Is yours low to begin with or is this a side effect from the Anafranil itself?
>
> -- My blood pressure has always been on the low side, but not so low that it needs to be medically treated. Even when I am not on medication, I get really dizzy when I stand up and when I am standing for long periods (like when I take a hot or warm shower, standing in a line at the grocery store or waiting at a bus stop). Being on the Anafranil has made the dizziness even worse. I think the salt tablets are helping. I don't seem to be as dizzy when I stand up. So, time will tell.That was a smart move then. Hope it continues to help and allows you to increase your Anafranil.
> > I guess it's good that we have our "children" who need us. It give us more incentive to get well.
>
> -- It's nice to feel needed. My dog is such good company, and she keeps me active even when I am at my worst. Because of her, I have to get up and go for a couple of walks a day, which is good. When I am well, I will get back into the long, therapeutic walks along the river. It's so soothing to go for an hour or hour and a half walk to clear your head.Those long walks sound very therapeutic when just reading about them!
> > Wow! I'm always fascinated by those kinds of stories. I can't wait to hear about your meeting with him. Wish I could get an appointment!
>
> -- Maybe we could pass ourselves as Siamese twins and both go to see him! I hope I don't have to wait too long to see him. I'm kind of excited about it.My cats are Siamese (well one is full Siamese and the other is Snowshoe) does that count at all?
Really, though, that doctor's appointment sounds fascinating.Take care,
Kara
Posted by sfy on December 29, 2004, at 21:40:22
In reply to Re: Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food? » jerrympls, posted by Larry Hoover on December 29, 2004, at 8:23:03
> > I never had a hypertensive crisis while on Nardil and I still drank beer and ate pizza.
> >
> > However, I did almost go into shock from serotonin syndrome by accidentally combining dextromethorphan (an OTC cough suppressant) and Nardil. I was in the ICU for a couple days.It was the worst experience of my life.
> >
> > BE CAREFUL OF OTC COLD MEDS AND MAOIS.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> I'm sorry you learned the hard way, Jerry.
>
> Off limits are any cold medicine containing things like pseudoephedrine, chlorpheniramine, dextromethorphan,.....it's easier to say what is permitted. One drug, guaifenesin. It loosens phlegm and makes it easier to clear the chest and nasal passages. Other than that, tylenol and vitamin C.
>
> LarThis should go without saying but when taking an MAOI (or any med for that matter) carefully check the warnings on any OTC drug before taking it. All the contraindicated cold and cough medicines clearly state that they are not to be taken with an MAOI. (One would also hope that your pdoc gave you a heads up on this. And you do read the patient information sheet you get with any new prescription, right?)
Posted by AudreyE on December 29, 2004, at 21:49:09
In reply to Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food?, posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 16:58:09
Hi Kara,
I've been on Parnate since October, and I've had no problems whatsoever. In fact, I've had fewer side effects with Parnate then I did with MAOIs.
I think the odds of spontaneous hypertensive crises are so low as to make them almost unworthy of considering, if you're seriously depressed enough to be pondering an MAOI. As for food-induced crises, you can control what you eat, and, let me tell you, if you don't feel like giving up cheese for an MAOI, you probably aren't as depressed as I was before I started taking Parnate. For me, it was a no brainer. Yeah, I miss pizza once in awhile, but having a life was a fair trade.
Audrey
Posted by AudreyE on December 29, 2004, at 21:50:19
In reply to Re: Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food?, posted by AudreyE on December 29, 2004, at 21:49:09
I'm sorry... I meant I've had fewer side effects from Parnate than I did from SSRIS.
A.
Posted by jujube on December 30, 2004, at 17:15:28
In reply to Re: Kara - Have you come to a decision? » jujube, posted by KaraS on December 29, 2004, at 20:52:13
You did have a good response in the past from Paxil, right? Did it poop-out or are you looking for a more complete response now?
-- I did have a really good response to Paxil. It didn't poop-out, but I stopped taking it a couple of years ago. For a few years, I had only been taking a very small dose, and decided one day just to stop. I wish I hadn't because it really helped control the GAD, social phobia and irrational fears, even at a really dose. When I tried to go back on it late last year, it didn't work. I am not sure how much that had to do with the iron deficiency I had and how much had to do with the med just not being effective for me anymore. I wish I had known about the inositol trick you mentioned to someone else a little while ago. Perhaps that would have helped. Oh well.
> I'm getting so impatient. I really need to see two doctors regarding the anxiety/asthma issue and another one about an eye problem before I can feel safe to start on an MAOI. It seems like such a long haul before I can even start to take it. I guess the plus side is that the impatience is getting rid of some of the fear of starting on one.-- I think you are wise to have the asthma symptoms and eye problems checked out before starting a MAOI. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that some ADs can exacerbate and even cause sinus and asthma/breathing problems for some people. Hope the eye problem turns out to be nothing serious. But, it is better to be safe than sorry.
Hope all goes well with the doctors' appointments. Take care.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on December 31, 2004, at 1:17:49
In reply to Re: Had an MAOI hypertensive crisis? From what food?, posted by AudreyE on December 29, 2004, at 21:49:09
> Hi Kara,
>
> I've been on Parnate since October, and I've had no problems whatsoever. In fact, I've had fewer side effects with Parnate then I did with MAOIs.
>
> I think the odds of spontaneous hypertensive crises are so low as to make them almost unworthy of considering, if you're seriously depressed enough to be pondering an MAOI. As for food-induced crises, you can control what you eat, and, let me tell you, if you don't feel like giving up cheese for an MAOI, you probably aren't as depressed as I was before I started taking Parnate. For me, it was a no brainer. Yeah, I miss pizza once in awhile, but having a life was a fair trade.
>
> Audrey
I would definitely give up ANY food if it would diminish the depression even a little bit. I have no qualms about that part. My concern is really all of the gray area in terms of the diet. I keep reading so many different things. Even though I've read the summary of the Sunnybrook study, I'm still somewhat confused. I guess I'll have to stick to everything I do know for sure and leave off everything questionable - at least initially.Thanks for your help,
Kara
Posted by KaraS on December 31, 2004, at 1:19:09
In reply to Re: Misspoke..., posted by AudreyE on December 29, 2004, at 21:50:19
> I'm sorry... I meant I've had fewer side effects from Parnate than I did from SSRIS.
>
> A.
I figured you meant something like that.k
Posted by KaraS on December 31, 2004, at 1:33:53
In reply to Re: Kara - Have you come to a decision? » KaraS, posted by jujube on December 30, 2004, at 17:15:28
> You did have a good response in the past from Paxil, right? Did it poop-out or are you looking for a more complete response now?
>
> -- I did have a really good response to Paxil. It didn't poop-out, but I stopped taking it a couple of years ago. For a few years, I had only been taking a very small dose, and decided one day just to stop. I wish I hadn't because it really helped control the GAD, social phobia and irrational fears, even at a really dose. When I tried to go back on it late last year, it didn't work. I am not sure how much that had to do with the iron deficiency I had and how much had to do with the med just not being effective for me anymore. I wish I had known about the inositol trick you mentioned to someone else a little while ago. Perhaps that would have helped. Oh well.Yes, now I remember your saying that about the Paxil. I don't know of anyone personally who has used the inositol with success. I only know of that one doctor who claims he had success reversing poop-out from Parnate with it. I'd be very curious to see some studies on it.
> > I'm getting so impatient. I really need to see two doctors regarding the anxiety/asthma issue and another one about an eye problem before I can feel safe to start on an MAOI. It seems like such a long haul before I can even start to take it. I guess the plus side is that the impatience is getting rid of some of the fear of starting on one.
>
> -- I think you are wise to have the asthma symptoms and eye problems checked out before starting a MAOI. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that some ADs can exacerbate and even cause sinus and asthma/breathing problems for some people. Hope the eye problem turns out to be nothing serious. But, it is better to be safe than sorry.I think you're right about some ADs making asthma worse. In the past I've taken maprotiline to help me sleep. Recently I read that it's contraindicated if you have asthma. Glad I saw that but sad I might not be able to use it again. It's kind of a security blanket thing for me - I liked knowing it was there if I started having bad insomnia. Oh, well...
> Hope all goes well with the doctors' appointments. Take care.>
> TamaraThanks. you take care too. (Let me know when get your doctor's appointment.)
Kara
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