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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:48:45
In reply to Re: Locked Up » pretty_paints, posted by tensor on December 23, 2004, at 13:25:24
Hi,
Trust me, you don't want Haldol!
Ed.
Posted by tensor on December 23, 2004, at 13:51:04
In reply to Re: Locked Up... to Mattias, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:48:45
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:51:13
In reply to Re: Locked Up » pretty_paints, posted by tensor on December 23, 2004, at 13:25:24
Hi!
I think a lot of hospitals are like that! I remember the nurses saying 'I wouldn't be here if I could do something else.' Do you live in Ontario? I have some relatives in Ontario.
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:52:23
In reply to Re: Locked Up, posted by pretty_paints on December 23, 2004, at 10:35:12
Hi!
>Anyway thanks for this post Ed.
You're very welcome :-)
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 14:06:21
In reply to To Link, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:51:13
Yes, I do live in Ontario, in a little town called Alliston, it's near Toronto and Barrie, Ontario.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 14:11:26
In reply to Re: To Link, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 14:06:21
Hi,
My dad's cousin lives in Barrie. We went to visit a few years ago!
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 15:13:23
In reply to Re: To Link, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 14:11:26
If you go there again, swing by Alliston, and I'll give you a freebee rTMS session. (kidding)
Linkadge
Posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 15:16:47
In reply to Locked Up, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 8:03:07
Locked up and very angry. If I was depressed when
I got there or before being admitted than the involuntary nature of the stay and the total abuse and degrading treatment by the psychiatrists who had you totally in their control and so did not have any motivation to treat you with any degree of humanity or dignity infused extreme anger. And the angrier I became the worse the treatment I got was and the possibility of a longer stay. The only way out was to grit my teeth and put up with the inhumanity until they let me out. Only then could I search for someone to help me recover from the entire episode again! Still just as depressed or more than when I was committed!irene
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 15:54:58
In reply to Re: Locked Up, posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 15:16:47
Hi,
Thanks for the offer! I'll bear that in mind!!
Best Regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 15:59:06
In reply to Re: Locked Up, posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 15:16:47
Question for everyone.......
Under what circumstances, if any, should psychiatrists be permitted to 'commit' people to hospital?
Are you satisfied with the current status of the mental health legislation where you live?
Ed.
Posted by Sebastian on December 23, 2004, at 16:49:39
In reply to to Ed_UK, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 10:38:20
every hospital is the same; TV and smoking. I spent most of my time smoking if I could get them. One hospital even had pool table. I liked the buttons they put in the bath room, I pressed it once when the cute nurse was on duty.
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 17:04:12
In reply to Involuntary 'treatment'.... to Irene and everyone!, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 15:59:06
I am fairly satisfied. The people who were locked up in the hospital I was at, needed to be locked up. One guy thought he was Jesus, and said I could be one of his disciples if I would cast my nets into the water.
Linkadge
Posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 17:18:54
In reply to Involuntary 'treatment'.... to Irene and everyone!, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 15:59:06
I cannot remember exactly what it is but I used to be very involved in mental health advocacy and helped write and was the impetus to post the patients rights in county institutions. I can always remember being satisfied with the current law, it was that people and doctors always lied and went around the law For instance one time my family wanted to commit me. They did. I was bewildered because they had no reason to be able to do it. I asked them repeatedly how they were able to commit me. They finally told me they had gone to the county courthouse and been blatantly told to lie to get me committed. I have had similar things occur in hospitals. I was not a danger to myself or to anyone nor had I acted or talked in such a way. So it really matters not what the laws say because when you are labeled "mentally ill" you have no rights!
If I remember correctly doctors have to prove that you are a danger to yourself or others IF I recall the same must apply to anyone else. I once wanted to commit a friend and was told that if I did not hear her say she was a danger to herself or others I could not so I had her son do it whom she had told she wanted to die. I found it strange as her actions belied that she was a danger so I think the interpretation of the legislation depends on who is interpreting it. I guess all in all I would have to say that the legislation needs to be much more specific so that it cannot be so easily circumvented and or misinterpreted.
irene
BTW What is your particular interest?
irene
Posted by jerrympls on December 23, 2004, at 17:26:03
In reply to Locked Up, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 8:03:07
I agree- good thread Ed.
I've been in the hospital 3 times but all voluntary. To echo what many have said - there's nothing really to do except watch TV, read or walk around. The most recent time I was hospitalized was the best out of all three - it was a "behavioral unit" but still locked down. There was a big common room with a TV, the nurses station and then the rooms which were basically standard hospital rooms - oh and not to forget the "quiet room." I liked the place because they didn't force me to go to any therapy groups I didn't want to attend. They encouraged it - but were laid back. I did look forward to our 'craft" hour - where we made stupid little art projects - kept my mind busy.
One place I was in years ago almost drove me COMPLETELY nuts because you HAD to attend these horrible group therapy sessions led by inexperienced so-called therapists. You also had to watch hours and hours of motivational speaker videos and fill out worksheets about them. They even made us watch DR PHIL!!!!! UGHHHHHHHHH!!! I hated it so much.
What is going into a hospital good for? Well, it's a very controlled environment and is a great place and time to accelerate med changes or med washouts, etc. For ex: this last time I was in they washed me out of an SSRI before switching me to an MAOI - all in about 10 days instead of 3-4 weeks outpatient. Of course the hospital is the best place if your are suicidal - no question.
I also liked the last place I was in because I saw my doctor everyday - except on weekends. It was a teaching hospital so my doc woul dhave 5-6 med students with him each time. Now I'm seeing one of his med students as my pdoc!
So - yeah - going in to a hospital or "behavioral unit" isn't the greatest because it's a lot like jail and very boring
Jerry
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 17:29:19
In reply to Re: Involuntary 'treatment'.... to Irene and everyone!, posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 17:18:54
>BTW What is your particular interest?
When I was in hospital I saw that if a pdoc committed a patient, the relationship between the patient and the pdoc was forever ruined. Not much chance of successful 'talk therapy' in the future!
Ed.
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 23, 2004, at 23:02:45
In reply to Re: To Link, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 15:13:23
i remember that jesus guy..
i took my drining test in alliston...
hit a snow bank and still passed!
j
Posted by Sebastian on December 24, 2004, at 10:31:07
In reply to Re: Involuntary 'treatment'.... to Irene and everyone!, posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 17:18:54
I ended up in the hopital, when I fell down out side in the snow. Sort of on purpose, but feeling like I had no other choice. They called an ambulance and then asked me to sign myself in to the mental ward. The problem was no one was willing to listen to me at the time. so I guess I was driving myself insane. I was talking but no one would listen.
Posted by Sebastian on December 24, 2004, at 10:41:42
In reply to Re: Locked Up, posted by jerrympls on December 23, 2004, at 17:26:03
my last hospital stay was the worst. The first one sucked and the middle one was the best. All 3 times I signed myself in. The third time they even said if I did't sign in they would not admit me. I sighed in anyways to get the doctor off my back. Ya, I was signing up for day care, they were asking a bunch of questions. And one was along the lines of would you ever accidentaly or perposly hurt yourself. I had just moved down from canada and never seen a median like down here. I told the doctor I worried that I would accidentaly drive in to it. She fliped and a ordered me to go admit myself to the hospital. So I did. Stayed for 3 days, what hell. Upon admitance they asked me repeatedly if I was gay. I thought the doctor was scaring me, or what was his problem. Turned out I was in a co-ed ward, that sucks, might as well be in jail.
Posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 11:55:16
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'...., posted by Sebastian on December 24, 2004, at 10:31:07
I don't know......I was on a locked ward, I can't really say it was a bad experience. I just didn't care about anything--whether I lived or died, ate or didnt eat. As ling as I could sleep. So I didn't really have room for frustration, boredom, anger. I just didn't care.
And this was in Eastern Europe, so we're talking 8 people to a room, old old narrow cots, no separate closets--all your clothes in your suitcase under the bed, porridge for breakfast and watery soup for lunch. We were responsible for mopping floors. No games or activities provided. they can't afford it. One old TV on for a very few hours with only two channels. The only program to truly watch was "One Life to Live." Oh and of course lavatory from hell, no stall doors and stinks. Two sinks for 50 people.
No I am not kidding or making this up. As long as staff or patients weren't abusive I simply could care less about my situation(and they all were very nice, including the quite competent psychiatrist).
Posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 12:15:26
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'...., posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 11:55:16
Hi banga,
Your story was very interesting. Which country were you in? I was under the impression that you live in the US.
Thank you for sharing your experience,
Ed.
Posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 12:37:58
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'.... » banga, posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 12:15:26
Yes I am in the US, was born and raised here. But I have dual citizenship with one of the Baltic States and have been there for many extended visits; spent 3 years over there 200-2002 and had a very wonderful 'nervous breakdown' while there, to use DSMIV terminology!!
I had been treated for my depression in the US for many years prior to that. When I went over, I was on a very low dose of Prozac. I wanted to get pregnant without meds, so I had stopped. Big mistake. Big fallout with closest family and support and resultant isolation, unsuccess in career, plus alcohol as a pitiful attempt to get through it spelled disaster. Two and one half years in alcohol treatments, "resting" in semi-outpatient mental health treatments, then the inpatient hospital stay. My relatives were terrified to put me on a plane back to the US, thought I wouln't make it alone--get lost, get drunk or something, I was so out of it. But I insisted and would not hear of my husband wasting money flying out to get me. No I was not logical at all. By a miracle I made it home.
Truly, I love the Baltics--my breakdown had nothing to do with the place-- and the inpatient stay believe it or not was not a negative memory, the experience itself that is (of course the mental idea of having needed inpatient treatment in general is disturbing). My alcohol treatment there, with much more modern amenities was far more traumatic because of incompetent "therapists". But I hear many alcohol treatment places in the US too still practice a "break 'em then build them up" approach. Only over there, they didn't do the "build 'em up" part. They believed my suicidal depression was just denial that I had an alcohol problem. One place where the US tendency to sue everyone in sight paid off positively: I think alcohol treatment places in the US now go out of their way to also screen and treat mental illness due to all the cases of people committing suicide after treatment. I actually met people who were practically forced onto antidepressants while in for alcohol treatment against their wishes.
But that's for a different board. The message is--the most important element in treating illnesses is compassionate, talented health care professionals.
Posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 12:50:08
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'...., posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 12:37:58
Hi Banga :-)
What were the psychiatrists like in the Baltic states? How do they compare with American pdocs?
Ed.
Posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 13:25:58
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'.... » banga, posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 12:50:08
Funny you should ask, as I posted I thought "I should comment more on the pdocs specifically." They deserve it.
I personally found them very competent and knowledgeable and concerned about patient wellness. Of course and obviously, I am sure there were many that weren't so good that I did not meet. Many are quite burned out due to ridiculous salaries and understaffing. I had expected them to be significantly behind on the newest drugs, but I did not factor in the drug company's push to do trials of newer drugs there--nice guinea pig place. They provide meds for trials but also give some amounts of samples for use in non-participant patients too. So whereas I'd have thought they would stick me on some old old horrendous med, I was put on Lexapro and Risperidone. Mind you, I was treated a little like a "special" patient, given my US background (and connections, so much there still is based on connections), so I don't know they have enough of these newer meds to help out a significant number of patients. I assume it is all in the hands of how many free samples the drug companies handed them. No way the state paid for such expensive drugs. I am sure they often hear of a new treatment and wish they could try it, but they have little control to get these new treatments unless the drug company can be given incentives. Psychiatrists are perhaps more concerend with other aspects of treatment--salaries and staffing, amenities, and confidentiality issues. And of course patients' ability to seek and then afford proper treatment. If I get better and stronger, I hope someday I could be an activist over there to help lessen stigma about mental illness, assure proper confidentiality issues, and most of all--promote coordination of care for dual diagnosis (alcohol plus mental illness).The general picture--it is much easier to get to med prescriptions there. There are other types of practitioners who can write psych prescriptions--though I couldn't quite understand which ones--some psychologists? Addiction specialists? You get the advantages and disadvantages of a looser approach. Easier access, but less oversight--cautionary statements about side effects, tapering, etc. US pdocs seem to be much more conservative and cautious. I am sure liability issues play in tremendously. Many meds are easy to get in any corner pharmacy over there--prozac, etc. Some I had to order through a pharmacy run by a German company.
As I was then still in the fantasy world that an SSRI or SNRI will solve all problems, I did not get to test the practitioners in how willing they would be to prescribe/acess drugs not typically used for ...well in my case depression. So I dont know about stimulant, MAOI, dopamine agonists, etc.--how easy they are to get.
And lastly, one has to mention that alternative medicine is very big over there. Some methods are clearly based on superstition and magical thinking, but of course much is also based in reality-tried and true folk remedies. BUt it was at times hard to understand that highly educated, people knowledgeable in modern medicine would be willing believers in some of these obvious charlatans. Mind you, I believe in alternative methods, and do not negate spiritual healing at all, I still wish I could access such help more in the US--but they didnt seem to have the critical eye to distinguuish the real thing from total fakes. It was wierd.
Posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 17:57:14
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'...ed_uk, posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 13:25:58
Hi Banga,
Thank you for the information. It was very interesting.
>Many meds are easy to get in any corner pharmacy over there--prozac, etc.
Do you mean that you could just buy it without a prescription?
Ed.
Posted by Broken on December 29, 2004, at 14:40:53
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'...ed_uk » banga, posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 17:57:14
Hi there, a newb to posting here, but have read for months.
Actually, I found my voluntary stay at a private hospital very helpful. No one was allowed to call me, or see me without my written permission.
They did change my meds as soon as I arrived, because they didn't agree with the doc I used, and ramped the dose up quickly, because they were monitoring my blood levels daily. They ofcourse, took my shoestrings as soon as I arrived, so I couldn't use them to hurt myself. Tried to put me in a room with another patient, which was not going to happen. I threatened to leave, they threatened to have me confined there, I threatened a lawsuit and they gave me a private room. The people were nice, and during free time I went into the small weight room they had and worked out.
Gave me the time I needed to think, without distractions, adjust to meds, and the exercise in the weight room helped as well. After the stay I was able to make some very painful decisions that would have never occured had I not checked myself in.
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