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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by pretty_paints on December 23, 2004, at 10:35:12
In reply to Re: Locked Up » ed_uk, posted by tensor on December 23, 2004, at 9:36:35
Hiya, this is a good thread Ed.
I too was held as a voluntary patient. In response to Mattias, who asked about what they would do if you were admitted for depression: In my opinion, hospital is a great place if you are psychotic/manic/paranoid/confused/angry/suicidal. Well, it's not great. I mean certainly for anyone psychotic/manic/paranoid, they are going to hate being put into hospital and believe a lot of things linked up with their delusional thoughts, like the nurses are out to get them or whatever. So I'm not saying it's an enjoyable place, but I think it is the safest bet for people who are any of the above. They can give you sedatives when you get worked up, I had lorazepam when I was in. They are also low stimulating environments, which give psychotic patients less stimuli to bounce off of. However, I think for people who are depressed, hospital is not such a great place. I mean sure, there are lots of depressed people in hospital and if they are suicidal then yes it helps them, but the way I saw it was: In hospital you have NOTHING to do, nothing to occupy yourself with. Nurses arent always very friendly. Your room is usually cold and uncomforting, you don't feel relaxed. You're usually surrounded by a bunch of weirdos (yeh yeh I know, that's not very PC, but you know what I mean). The things psychotic or manic people say can upset you. I used to get cushions thrown at me in the tv room by a woman who thought I was out to get her, hmm. Oh I don't know, it is generally just a depressing place to be.
So I think hospitals are basically good as an "emergency" option. If things suddenly change, or you feel out of control or spontaneous, you don't know what's going on, then they are good. If you have just been depressed for a long time and not really getting much better, I don't personally think a stint in hospital will revive you (but of course that is just my personal opinion). The reason I'm saying all this is that I had major depression all year from the January. By the august I was going psychotic so I went into hospital, and so I can say that it did help me in that respect. The reason I went in was, well for many reasons, but mainly because I felt "crazy", I felt like there had been a shift and something was different. I felt out of control, I didn't feel safe. I didn't feel exactly depressed, but I just would keep fantisising about guns. Imagining them for hours, all different types of high-tech guns going on, kept having fantasies about shooting myself in the head. I kept imagining it and it felt really great, the noise of it, the cold metal. But I didn't understand what was going on because I didn't really want to die, I didnt feel that depressed. I locked myself in the bathroom and started cutting my arms (have never done that before), for NO reason. I just felt like, why not? Let's see if I can cut my arm open! It felt like a movie, like things weren't real. At home, my parents didn't have a clue what medication I was on (no that's a lie, they did, but they didn't know exactly) so I was left to handle it all by myself. The doc told them I was suicidal, so they should look after my meds and issue them to me. But that was no good because I was DEVIOUS. All I had to say was "no no, I am supposed to take all of these tablets", and they would have believed me because they thought I was more in the know than them. They wouldn't have challenged me. It was so easy to pull the wool over their eyes. So I felt like I needed to get into hospital. I did the same in hospital but the good thing was, you can't pull the wool over the nurses eyes there. I asked for scissors to cut up some magasines and make a picture, but they would only leave them with me for a few minutes. They kept all the medicines in a locked up room, so obviously there was no chance of anything like that. To me, I saw hospital as a great place to "sit things out" and wait for the weird feelings/thoughts to pass. A kind of safe house.
It also is very difficult if you have to see a new doctor. You have to relay the whole story to them and it gets very tiring. You might not like them, as I didn't, and that just makes you feel worse. You'd be dieing to get back to your own doctor.
On the other hand, one thing I thought I'd get out of hospital was having some physical tests done, blood tests and what not. So at least that could rule out anything which might be causing problems.
It depends on how you feel though Mattias, if you feel like a stint in hospital would do you good, then certainly you should persue that.
Anyway thanks for this post Ed, I look forward to reading stories of people who have been sectioned, or not. Cheers :)
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 10:38:20
In reply to Re: Locked Up » tensor, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 10:09:36
My last hospital stay was ***exactly*** as you described: boring. Everything you said was the same, (watched TV or smoked), level system, noisy patients everything. Do you live in the UK, cause it sounds like you were discribing the hospital I was at!
They gave me a few tranqualizers the first day or so, but it was not prompt at all. I had to wait a few days for them to even consider adjustments in meds. Its not really a place for people like me (suicidal but sane).
Linkadge
Posted by tensor on December 23, 2004, at 13:25:24
In reply to Re: Locked Up, posted by pretty_paints on December 23, 2004, at 10:35:12
Thank you Pretty_paints for your detailed answer!
Best wishes,
Mattias
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:48:45
In reply to Re: Locked Up » pretty_paints, posted by tensor on December 23, 2004, at 13:25:24
Hi,
Trust me, you don't want Haldol!
Ed.
Posted by tensor on December 23, 2004, at 13:51:04
In reply to Re: Locked Up... to Mattias, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:48:45
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:51:13
In reply to Re: Locked Up » pretty_paints, posted by tensor on December 23, 2004, at 13:25:24
Hi!
I think a lot of hospitals are like that! I remember the nurses saying 'I wouldn't be here if I could do something else.' Do you live in Ontario? I have some relatives in Ontario.
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:52:23
In reply to Re: Locked Up, posted by pretty_paints on December 23, 2004, at 10:35:12
Hi!
>Anyway thanks for this post Ed.
You're very welcome :-)
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 14:06:21
In reply to To Link, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 13:51:13
Yes, I do live in Ontario, in a little town called Alliston, it's near Toronto and Barrie, Ontario.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 14:11:26
In reply to Re: To Link, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 14:06:21
Hi,
My dad's cousin lives in Barrie. We went to visit a few years ago!
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 15:13:23
In reply to Re: To Link, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 14:11:26
If you go there again, swing by Alliston, and I'll give you a freebee rTMS session. (kidding)
Linkadge
Posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 15:16:47
In reply to Locked Up, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 8:03:07
Locked up and very angry. If I was depressed when
I got there or before being admitted than the involuntary nature of the stay and the total abuse and degrading treatment by the psychiatrists who had you totally in their control and so did not have any motivation to treat you with any degree of humanity or dignity infused extreme anger. And the angrier I became the worse the treatment I got was and the possibility of a longer stay. The only way out was to grit my teeth and put up with the inhumanity until they let me out. Only then could I search for someone to help me recover from the entire episode again! Still just as depressed or more than when I was committed!irene
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 15:54:58
In reply to Re: Locked Up, posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 15:16:47
Hi,
Thanks for the offer! I'll bear that in mind!!
Best Regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 15:59:06
In reply to Re: Locked Up, posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 15:16:47
Question for everyone.......
Under what circumstances, if any, should psychiatrists be permitted to 'commit' people to hospital?
Are you satisfied with the current status of the mental health legislation where you live?
Ed.
Posted by Sebastian on December 23, 2004, at 16:49:39
In reply to to Ed_UK, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 10:38:20
every hospital is the same; TV and smoking. I spent most of my time smoking if I could get them. One hospital even had pool table. I liked the buttons they put in the bath room, I pressed it once when the cute nurse was on duty.
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 17:04:12
In reply to Involuntary 'treatment'.... to Irene and everyone!, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 15:59:06
I am fairly satisfied. The people who were locked up in the hospital I was at, needed to be locked up. One guy thought he was Jesus, and said I could be one of his disciples if I would cast my nets into the water.
Linkadge
Posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 17:18:54
In reply to Involuntary 'treatment'.... to Irene and everyone!, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 15:59:06
I cannot remember exactly what it is but I used to be very involved in mental health advocacy and helped write and was the impetus to post the patients rights in county institutions. I can always remember being satisfied with the current law, it was that people and doctors always lied and went around the law For instance one time my family wanted to commit me. They did. I was bewildered because they had no reason to be able to do it. I asked them repeatedly how they were able to commit me. They finally told me they had gone to the county courthouse and been blatantly told to lie to get me committed. I have had similar things occur in hospitals. I was not a danger to myself or to anyone nor had I acted or talked in such a way. So it really matters not what the laws say because when you are labeled "mentally ill" you have no rights!
If I remember correctly doctors have to prove that you are a danger to yourself or others IF I recall the same must apply to anyone else. I once wanted to commit a friend and was told that if I did not hear her say she was a danger to herself or others I could not so I had her son do it whom she had told she wanted to die. I found it strange as her actions belied that she was a danger so I think the interpretation of the legislation depends on who is interpreting it. I guess all in all I would have to say that the legislation needs to be much more specific so that it cannot be so easily circumvented and or misinterpreted.
irene
BTW What is your particular interest?
irene
Posted by jerrympls on December 23, 2004, at 17:26:03
In reply to Locked Up, posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 8:03:07
I agree- good thread Ed.
I've been in the hospital 3 times but all voluntary. To echo what many have said - there's nothing really to do except watch TV, read or walk around. The most recent time I was hospitalized was the best out of all three - it was a "behavioral unit" but still locked down. There was a big common room with a TV, the nurses station and then the rooms which were basically standard hospital rooms - oh and not to forget the "quiet room." I liked the place because they didn't force me to go to any therapy groups I didn't want to attend. They encouraged it - but were laid back. I did look forward to our 'craft" hour - where we made stupid little art projects - kept my mind busy.
One place I was in years ago almost drove me COMPLETELY nuts because you HAD to attend these horrible group therapy sessions led by inexperienced so-called therapists. You also had to watch hours and hours of motivational speaker videos and fill out worksheets about them. They even made us watch DR PHIL!!!!! UGHHHHHHHHH!!! I hated it so much.
What is going into a hospital good for? Well, it's a very controlled environment and is a great place and time to accelerate med changes or med washouts, etc. For ex: this last time I was in they washed me out of an SSRI before switching me to an MAOI - all in about 10 days instead of 3-4 weeks outpatient. Of course the hospital is the best place if your are suicidal - no question.
I also liked the last place I was in because I saw my doctor everyday - except on weekends. It was a teaching hospital so my doc woul dhave 5-6 med students with him each time. Now I'm seeing one of his med students as my pdoc!
So - yeah - going in to a hospital or "behavioral unit" isn't the greatest because it's a lot like jail and very boring
Jerry
Posted by ed_uk on December 23, 2004, at 17:29:19
In reply to Re: Involuntary 'treatment'.... to Irene and everyone!, posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 17:18:54
>BTW What is your particular interest?
When I was in hospital I saw that if a pdoc committed a patient, the relationship between the patient and the pdoc was forever ruined. Not much chance of successful 'talk therapy' in the future!
Ed.
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 23, 2004, at 23:02:45
In reply to Re: To Link, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2004, at 15:13:23
i remember that jesus guy..
i took my drining test in alliston...
hit a snow bank and still passed!
j
Posted by Sebastian on December 24, 2004, at 10:31:07
In reply to Re: Involuntary 'treatment'.... to Irene and everyone!, posted by iris2 on December 23, 2004, at 17:18:54
I ended up in the hopital, when I fell down out side in the snow. Sort of on purpose, but feeling like I had no other choice. They called an ambulance and then asked me to sign myself in to the mental ward. The problem was no one was willing to listen to me at the time. so I guess I was driving myself insane. I was talking but no one would listen.
Posted by Sebastian on December 24, 2004, at 10:41:42
In reply to Re: Locked Up, posted by jerrympls on December 23, 2004, at 17:26:03
my last hospital stay was the worst. The first one sucked and the middle one was the best. All 3 times I signed myself in. The third time they even said if I did't sign in they would not admit me. I sighed in anyways to get the doctor off my back. Ya, I was signing up for day care, they were asking a bunch of questions. And one was along the lines of would you ever accidentaly or perposly hurt yourself. I had just moved down from canada and never seen a median like down here. I told the doctor I worried that I would accidentaly drive in to it. She fliped and a ordered me to go admit myself to the hospital. So I did. Stayed for 3 days, what hell. Upon admitance they asked me repeatedly if I was gay. I thought the doctor was scaring me, or what was his problem. Turned out I was in a co-ed ward, that sucks, might as well be in jail.
Posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 11:55:16
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'...., posted by Sebastian on December 24, 2004, at 10:31:07
I don't know......I was on a locked ward, I can't really say it was a bad experience. I just didn't care about anything--whether I lived or died, ate or didnt eat. As ling as I could sleep. So I didn't really have room for frustration, boredom, anger. I just didn't care.
And this was in Eastern Europe, so we're talking 8 people to a room, old old narrow cots, no separate closets--all your clothes in your suitcase under the bed, porridge for breakfast and watery soup for lunch. We were responsible for mopping floors. No games or activities provided. they can't afford it. One old TV on for a very few hours with only two channels. The only program to truly watch was "One Life to Live." Oh and of course lavatory from hell, no stall doors and stinks. Two sinks for 50 people.
No I am not kidding or making this up. As long as staff or patients weren't abusive I simply could care less about my situation(and they all were very nice, including the quite competent psychiatrist).
Posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 12:15:26
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'...., posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 11:55:16
Hi banga,
Your story was very interesting. Which country were you in? I was under the impression that you live in the US.
Thank you for sharing your experience,
Ed.
Posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 12:37:58
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'.... » banga, posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 12:15:26
Yes I am in the US, was born and raised here. But I have dual citizenship with one of the Baltic States and have been there for many extended visits; spent 3 years over there 200-2002 and had a very wonderful 'nervous breakdown' while there, to use DSMIV terminology!!
I had been treated for my depression in the US for many years prior to that. When I went over, I was on a very low dose of Prozac. I wanted to get pregnant without meds, so I had stopped. Big mistake. Big fallout with closest family and support and resultant isolation, unsuccess in career, plus alcohol as a pitiful attempt to get through it spelled disaster. Two and one half years in alcohol treatments, "resting" in semi-outpatient mental health treatments, then the inpatient hospital stay. My relatives were terrified to put me on a plane back to the US, thought I wouln't make it alone--get lost, get drunk or something, I was so out of it. But I insisted and would not hear of my husband wasting money flying out to get me. No I was not logical at all. By a miracle I made it home.
Truly, I love the Baltics--my breakdown had nothing to do with the place-- and the inpatient stay believe it or not was not a negative memory, the experience itself that is (of course the mental idea of having needed inpatient treatment in general is disturbing). My alcohol treatment there, with much more modern amenities was far more traumatic because of incompetent "therapists". But I hear many alcohol treatment places in the US too still practice a "break 'em then build them up" approach. Only over there, they didn't do the "build 'em up" part. They believed my suicidal depression was just denial that I had an alcohol problem. One place where the US tendency to sue everyone in sight paid off positively: I think alcohol treatment places in the US now go out of their way to also screen and treat mental illness due to all the cases of people committing suicide after treatment. I actually met people who were practically forced onto antidepressants while in for alcohol treatment against their wishes.
But that's for a different board. The message is--the most important element in treating illnesses is compassionate, talented health care professionals.
Posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 12:50:08
In reply to Re: Involuntary/voluntary 'treatment'...., posted by banga on December 26, 2004, at 12:37:58
Hi Banga :-)
What were the psychiatrists like in the Baltic states? How do they compare with American pdocs?
Ed.
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