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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by rainy on December 16, 2004, at 6:38:44
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds, posted by stresser on December 15, 2004, at 21:50:23
L, is her new pdoc a psychiatrist and did he/she say to go up to 400? It sounds from what you've written that you're doing this on your own. Not so, right? What might be the most prudent thing to do would be to call him/her, and get some advice from the medical person and then, first, ask M what she thinks. Is she having cognitive problems? Forgetting stuff? Slowing at all in her thinking? What does she want to do? Is she stable? What's her goal? The more she's involved in her medication management, the better she'll feel about it, I think (all of this is my own opinion, you understand).
I'm in my second week at 325, up from 300 and I'm having more trouble now than in week one. The Dopamax factor. But M's half a century younger than I am, too--that's got to factor in.This is a thread on the med board. That's why Ellen Brodie heads it up. The med board itself is about three feet long--I was like surprised. Hello!!
rainy
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 16, 2004, at 9:09:39
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds, posted by stresser on December 15, 2004, at 21:50:23
I take an Omega fatty acid capsule it has 3, 6 and 9 in it. It's flax seed, borage oil and fish oil. t's for heart health as well. Dunno about mental health. I don't eat any kind of fish or seafood whatsoever. I have noticed that my fingernails are growing like mad and they never have grown much in my entire life! The rolfing went well but he wasn't anything like I had thought. He didn't do much massage but did more manipulation and taught me how to breathe better, which was fantastic! My auditions were Monday night, had a call back last night and got to see ALL my competition and I was pretty confident. I find out next Wed! ARGH! Anyway, Topomax doing ok for now. I don't think I am going to go up on it any time soon because I am still having mental blockage and waiting for that to go away first. I don't want to have a huge mental fart onstage!!! ACK! Anyway, hope you all are having a good season and Kat I hope all your testing goes well. Wouldn't it just be nice to be able to wipe the slate clean and start over!!
Posted by rainy on December 16, 2004, at 11:38:56
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds, posted by bridgey1128 on December 16, 2004, at 9:09:39
Let us know immediately about the audition, Bridgey!! It sounds like you've got a whole leg in the door, though, to break later. I just bought fish oil, which I'm going to return ($23) for cheaper and stronger ($6.99.) Target vs "Natural Pharmacy." It's supposed to be a mild mood stabilizer--see Psych education.org. It's listed along with lithium and other anti convulsants.
Sure know what you mean about brain farts, although I hadn't thought of the Topamax blank outs quite that way--between them and brain shivers we're getting a real vocabulary for the people who write the package inserts for the meds we take. I like your lizard tongue for tardive dyksinesia, for example (which hasn't quite gone away, by the way.)
Anyway, you want your brain to behave. So do I. Want your brain to behave in a Bridgey way. I was going to say ladylike which of course excludes farting, but Bridgey is what I meant.
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on December 16, 2004, at 22:05:34
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds, posted by stresser on December 15, 2004, at 21:50:23
> I'm happy to hear everyone's input on the meds. and I, just like rainy, thought this was a med board. What is it? I'm really confused now as to exactly what this is...it's the blond coming out in me, darn it! My daughter is taking 300mg of topamax, and is just starting to notice a difference in her cravings, but she won't be seeing her pdoc until Jan. I want her to increase it before then, and I don't know what to do about that. From what you have all said, 400mg seems to be the magic number as far as controling binge eating. Should I increase another 25mg at night? She has been on 300mg for one month, my husband says be careful, so I don't really know what to do. Maybe I should call the doc. just to be sure, but mabye he will never take her that high. Then what? I press on? I do think it's leveling out her moods, and she told the new doc it was helping her in many ways. I have also read that bipolar people are taking mood stablizers for that condition more and more these days. There must be something to that. Advice PLEASE. -L
Thought what was a med board??? this is a topomax board isn't it? doesn't that make it a med board? or have I missed something in all the chaos of late???
at 400 mg if one titrates slowly up to it of course, says the broken record, there is little loss of cognitive function and little risk of it...
but one has to do things slowly...
higher doses can lead to problems and to toxicity...
just a warning there... the increase is best at night... with the balance following later in the am... so that the doses are balanced night to morning...
and I keep meaning to ask the neuros why...
oh there are so many things I keep meaning to ask them and I have this list that I keep forgetting to complete the question series when I am there...
so next time it will be a loooonnnngggg session....400 mg is the level at which weight loss is best achieved according to anyone I have spoken to about weight concerns...
and oversleep must be avoided too....and don't forget the salmon oil capsules...
what a life this is...
kat
Posted by merry on December 16, 2004, at 23:57:55
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds » stresser, posted by headachequeen on December 16, 2004, at 22:05:34
Feeling terrible of late. These past several days have been bad. Mixed moods. Hypo/depressed. Up one minute down the next. Can't get my moods stabled. I feel like the topomax pooped out on me. I've been taking my meds on time. I never skip. My schedule is always the same but I don't know what the heck is going on with me now. Maybe it's the holiday stress but I don't feel stressed. That's just what people tell me it could be. I am going to see my new pdoc next week. Maybe I need to go up on the topomax.
Anyway....hope you all are feeling better than I am. :(signed....Not Feeling Too Merry
Posted by rainy on December 17, 2004, at 3:05:10
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds, posted by merry on December 16, 2004, at 23:57:55
Ugh, merry, I'm sorry. What meds are you on? I seem to remember wellbutrin, klonopin and Topamax. From all that I read, Topamax is no great shakes as a mood stabilizer for a fair number of bipolar II people. I read an article this week in which a psychiatrist said she used it to treat the stuff that goes along with the disease rather than the mood swings themselves.
The wellbutrin does have a poop out factor, I think. I haven't read about it as much as with the SSRIs, but after having been on it since 2001, I think it's much mushier than it was at first. Of course if you're not on these meds all of this is about me and not you, which isn't my intention at all.
How's your diet? And are you doing extra stuff like baking or preparing for guests or anything out of your usual routine? I guess it really doesn't matter what is causing you to be so up and down, what matters is that you are. I hope your new pdoc can help--the rapid cycling is so awful. The alternative board might have some helpful information for you.
good thoughts to you
rainy
Posted by rainy on December 17, 2004, at 8:22:47
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds » stresser, posted by headachequeen on December 16, 2004, at 22:05:34
Kat, I think I wrote I thought it was THE med board, not A med board. I didn't realize it is a thread until I went to the BIG Psycho Babble med board and saw all the entries. This even after reading the entire Ellen Brodie Topamax thread. How dense could I be?? Really dense.
rainy
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 17, 2004, at 13:16:53
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds, posted by merry on December 16, 2004, at 23:57:55
My doc switched me to the 200mg tablets..which, frankly is STUPID because I have to take 100mg in the morning and 100mg at night. I have to split the dang pill myself. I don't feel like it works as well as the 25mg pills. Anyone else have this problem with the different pills?
Posted by rainy on December 17, 2004, at 14:21:35
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds, posted by bridgey1128 on December 17, 2004, at 13:16:53
200 mgs of what, Bridgey? I'm chopping 100 mgs Topamax into quarters and it's a pain in the forbidden word. Plus, chopping dang pills isn't accurate without a pill splitter. Who wants to spend extra bucks on that?
rainy
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 17, 2004, at 14:58:26
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds » bridgey1128, posted by rainy on December 17, 2004, at 14:21:35
Rainy ask for 25mg tablets. There is no sense in you having to split a pill into quarters. I would have asked for 100mg tablets of Topomax if I had known they were going to be stupid and give me 200mg tablets. My Dr KNEW I was taking 100mg at night and 100 in the morning and yet he still thought, oh GEE I'll give her 200mg tablets because she takes 200mg. DUR! I really don't think they works as well as the 25mg anyway. The reason I was taking so many 25mg tablets is because I was taking 150mg and they wrote two separate prescriptions, one for 100mg and one for 50mg and I was NOT about to pay $70 a month for the same med! That was ridiculous! So I said, Uh can you change this to all 25mg tablets so I can pay just one copay? So they did. That worked out much nicer and I feel that they worked better anyway. Ever since I have been on the 200mg tablets I have felt aggitated and sleepy. I have also had more breakthroughs of hypomania. Not bad, mind you, but it's the foot in mouth syndrome. Not the 200mg dosage, just the 200mg PILLS. I was ok on the 200mg dosage because I had enough 25mg pills to start on that dosage. When I ran out and had to start a new prescription they gave me the 200mg and that was just odd because of my dosing schedule. I am going to call the pharmacy and see if they can switch them back. I know it's not supposed to make a difference but I think it really does. I can tell, at least. Anyway, so that is my dilhema. And whomever is on Welbutrin and is bipolar, I couldn't take that. It made me crazy. Dried my mouth out like CRAZY!! Then it started making me really irritable. Prozac made me bonkers too. My brother tried to take Welbutrin to help him quit smoking and it made him crazy too. He's ADHD. I dont know if that was the reason or not. Anyway, off to try and get my prescription fixed! Wish me luck!
Posted by rainy on December 17, 2004, at 20:18:31
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds, posted by bridgey1128 on December 17, 2004, at 14:58:26
Barrels of luck! I called the office to ask for 25 mgs a week ago and they didn't return my call. (Answereing machine.) Instead of being assertive and calling again, I just kept chopping. I didn't know Topamax came in 200 mgs--whooeee. I've been doing 300 t.i.d. and plan to do 400 like wise, if I ever get there.
That foot in mouth business has me pulling out of public events. As my son and I walked down a really crowded street in Manhattan this week I heard myself telling people out loud to "move it!" Uneven quarters. Got to get those 25 mgs.As for the wellbutrin, I'm less anxious at 100 mgs but more teary. Medication management is pretty discouraging, especially when the minds of doctors and consumers are a hitch apart. They just don't think about cost--co-pay, what's that?--or convenience. I always have to remind mine that I need generic. Every single time. Maybe your pdoc thought it would be more convenient for you to take 200 mg pills rather than all those little 25 mg suckers, but he could have asked. Drug reps do a job on the medical mind, I believe.
My mind is ready to go read a beach book.
rainy
Posted by stresser on December 18, 2004, at 11:03:07
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds » stresser, posted by headachequeen on December 16, 2004, at 22:05:34
What is the connection between the topomax and Salmon Oil? I don't think moveing up the extra 25mg has impaired her anymore as of yet, but I will keep asking. I don't want that to happen, of course. She hasn't been taking any.....I didn't make the connection earlier. I think this darn Welbutrin is making ME a nervous wreck! I cannot wait until my dr. appt. in Jan...., to get it changed to something else. I had one ealier, but the office had to move my appt. because the dr. was going to be out of the office that week. I'm too leary of just tapering off and not taking anything, but would like to know what all of you think about that? I refuse to take anything that will make me gain weight, that's just off the table for me.
Bridgey, Please let us know when you hear anything about your audition....we are keeping our fingers crossed for you. -L
Posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 13:51:02
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by stresser on December 18, 2004, at 11:03:07
>I refuse to take anything that will make me gain weight, that's just off the table for me.
If you are depressed and want help than if a medication really helps a lot and you gain a little weight from it the tradeoff is well worth it. Is your weight more important to you than your mental health? No one wants to gain weight from taking a medication but if you are unwilling to get help for your depression because you might gain a little weight in the process than I think you are not just depressed. Imagine if you had a physical illness and say in your leg and had trouble walking. If you could take a medication that would alleviate the pain and enable you to walk better but it made you gain some weight would you not take it because it made you gain weight? It would make no sense would it? No one would say I would rather be a cripple and in pain and be thin than be pain free and be able to walk. Why do you think depression, as an illness is any different? Of course in this instance I would not be happy to gain the weight either but I would rather be able to walk just as I would rather not be mentally ill.
Posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 14:21:11
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules » stresser, posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 13:51:02
I dunno, Irene, I think that's where I'm completely bonkers. I've been fighting that very question because I really need to gain weight and I don't want to take a medicine that would make me do so. Last night I saw a picture of myself taken four years ago when I weighed 30 or 40 pounds more than I do now, maybe a bit more, and I don't want to go back there.
The SSRIs that I took slowly but surely put it on. Not all of it to be sure, screw drivers did their share. But I'm completely irrational and my pdoc says I've tied her hands. I understand where L's coming from and I also see your point. You make sense. I don't, not even to myself.
rainy
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 15:57:50
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules » stresser, posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 13:51:02
Actually usually the weight gain adds TO the depression, it doesn't usually help it. That is why I refuse also to take anything that makes me gain weight. Why should I take somethign that is supposed to make me feel better that is also going to make me fat? That just adds more fuel to the fire if you ask me and adds one more problem. 10 or 15lbs is not something to get depressed about but 50-100lbs IS!!! It is also not healthy. So the trade off isn't worth it in my book. That is why I wouldn't take lithium. I've been crazy for 27 years I can be crazy for just as many more and NOT fat if that is what it takes. And YES that is worth it to me. I have been heavy for most of my life and I know that my physical health is worth more than my mental health sometimes. I have more ups than downs and if I gain more weight my back doesn't have a shot in you know what of ever getting any better. The Topomax hasn't done squat of helping me lose weight or controlling my appetite but at least it hasn't made me gain weight so I know EXACTLY where she is coming from. I guess some of us are that stubborn. It's not really a vanity thing, it's a health thing. I feel 10 times worse and more depressed when I am fat so why take something that is supposed to help get me undepressed but only adds to the problem? That doesn't make any sense to me. And personally, I don't think that Welbutrin is for people who are bipolar. Are you bipolar L? That could be the problem. I have known lots of people that it has driven bonkers. It may not be the right drug for you. I wouldn't be surprised if that was what was doing it to you. It did it to me.
Posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 16:03:25
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules » iris2, posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 14:21:11
Rainy,
You do make sense though because you are aware of your own irrational thoughts from what you just said. Somethimes we cannot help feeling irrational but we can still be aware of the rational side of things. It is like if you know you are insane then you are not actually insane. Being aware is key.
It's not that I don't think these irrational thoughts myself but it is important that I recognize them for what they are. I know I have irrational thinking about weight and my body even as I have the thoughts. I recently fought with myself for several months because I was gaining weight from antidepressant. If I had not been aware of my own irrational thinking about it all I probably would never have tried the medication. It helped me some but not enough for the trade off of gaining weight and body changes from increased prolactin along with my mensus stopping because of it. If it had relieved my depression a great deal I would have still had thoughts about being very unhappy about gaining weight but in the end I do believe that I would have decided to stay on it because I am able to recognise my irrational thoughts about weight for what they are. Of course no one wants to gain weight they do not need but given the severity of my depression I would hope that I can be rational enough to accept a weight gain if the medication relieves the depression. Streesor said she would not take any medication that might make her gain weight. If I have that attitude, given that most of them can make me gain weight I might as well not even try to find a medication to alleviate the depression. I hope it will not increase my weight but if it does I will just have to deal with it.
Posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 16:04:34
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 15:57:50
How come you don't think WB is for BP people, Bridgey? It's one of the few antidepressants that's theoreticlly approved by who knows who for use with us. I'm not sure it works, mind you.
rainy
Posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 16:15:17
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 15:57:50
Bridgey,
Actually I agree wiht you. When I speak of weight gain I am only speaking of 10 or 20 pounds not 50 pounds. If the medication is causing a health problem than the trade of is not worth it I agree. I also agree that gaining weight makes me more depressed. I am so depressed and not funtional that if a medication should help me feel significantly better and I only have what others would consider somewhat of an insignificant weight gain of up to say 20 pounds or so than I think it is irrational of me not to continue taking the medication or even not to try one that has the possibility of increasing my weight. What I am saying is that it is irrational of me not to take an antidepressant that might work very well or does work well if I gain 10 or 20 pounds from taking it. If I am so depressesed from gaining that amount of weight than it is irrational and part of my mental illness and I need to work on that issue. It is my experience that people I have known without weight issues like I have do not get totally depressed when they gain weight. They might not like it but they are still happy people. There is a difference.
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 16:22:07
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules » bridgey1128, posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 16:15:17
I'm really surprised about the Welbutrin. It made me absolutely bonkers! That and it made my mouth feel like cotton!
Posted by redscarlet on December 18, 2004, at 16:28:18
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 16:22:07
> I'm really surprised about the Welbutrin. It made me absolutely bonkers! That and it made my mouth feel like cotton!
I'm bipolar, and it works GREAT for me !!!
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 16:53:58
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by redscarlet on December 18, 2004, at 16:28:18
Do you take it with anything else or just by itself? And if just an antidepressant works could you have just been misdiagnosed as bipolar? That is what is so confusing. It's never a perfected science. Some people are just depressed and diagnosed as bipolar. Some are bipolar, like me, and were diagnosed as depressed or either ADHD or schitzo or worse. I was just wondering if just an antidepressant works how to you handle the mania?
Posted by banga on December 18, 2004, at 17:20:40
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 15:57:50
I agree that worrying about weight is not necessarily vain, or indicative of another psychological (e.g. eating disorder) problem. Certainly you need to examine it as it can be the case! and should first be ruled out, but weight gain can be a serious detriment. For me, gaining more than 10 pounds means my back giving out. On Paxil, I not only gained weight and felt ugly, but my back was in constant pain, I could not ski or do other activities I loved, had to wear back braces, pay for more therapeutic techniques. My relatives later admitted that my puffy face looked awfully unhealthy. Weigth gain means more health and heart problems. Means spending money to buy more clothes. And of course influencing self-esteem and increase social anxiety.
One should be able to work with gaining a little weight, but some of these meds cause serious, problematic weight gain and should not be dismissed as not being a valid concern. Certainly if it is a mental health emergency, you should take any med that has worked for you--even if you gain weight. Then when things settle down, try to find alternatives.
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 17:28:32
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds --and weight, posted by banga on December 18, 2004, at 17:20:40
Because of my frame I have to gain about 20lbs or so to actually notice a difference in weight. I have lost 30lbs and people are JUST NOW asking me if I have lost weight. I am also still in the same size jeans. I guess it all depends on your body frame as to how weight gain and loss affects your health as well.
Posted by redscarlet on December 18, 2004, at 17:32:15
In reply to Welbutrin, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 16:53:58
> Do you take it with anything else or just by itself? And if just an antidepressant works could you have just been misdiagnosed as bipolar? That is what is so confusing. It's never a perfected science. Some people are just depressed and diagnosed as bipolar. Some are bipolar, like me, and were diagnosed as depressed or either ADHD or schitzo or worse. I was just wondering if just an antidepressant works how to you handle the mania?
No, not misdiagnosed, I REALLY have bipolar.
I take Zonegran, Geodon, Seroquel and Xanax along with 450mg of Wellbutrin daily.
Posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 18:37:57
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds --and weight, posted by banga on December 18, 2004, at 17:20:40
Of course if gaining weight causes another medical problem one has to take that into account. And one does not have to be thought of as vain just because of being unhappy about ones weight gain. There is nothing wrong with wanting to look good and feel and be healthy.I think I am just coming from a different place than most of you. I have had an eating disorder and accompanying body image problems and hysteria over weight gain for 30 years. I also suffer from a very severe treatment resistant depression of the same time period. I have had some medications help with the depression in the past. I am not able to work and have tried to commit suicide several times. The last mediation I tried helped with the constant ruminating negative thoughts (which I am feeling right now) but did nothing for my motivation, concentration or anhedonia at all. I did however gain several pounds on it my stomach got “real big”and I went up a size in clothes from 6 to 8 or more.. I wonder what some of you would have done in my shoes? I stayed on it for over three months and continued to have body changes. I was and continue to be very depressed about the body and weight changes and decided finally that the bad outweighed the good
I honestly think that from my perspective when talking about weight issues and depression I am coming a different place. I think that is why I get so upset when I read things like someone absolutely will not take a medication if it makes them gain weight. I am in a constant struggle with myself to be ok about my weight. I think if I find an antidepressant that works WELL I should take it even if I gain some weight. I would consider my depression a morbid disease and as such I need to be logical about some weight gain in this circumstance. If I had a debilitating physical illness that impaired my functioning in this manner and could take a drug so that I was able to function and work and have a life but gained some weight (not so much that it affected my health adversely) than I think that someone without an eating disorder would not think twice about it. For me I do and I do not think this is rational. It is close to saying I would rather take a chance on dieing than gain some weight. It is not rational and I need to continue to recognize this. I think I am personalizing what others say here and it does not pertain to my circumstance at all.
If I let the eating disorder get in the way of a possible treatment for my depression I am in a no win situation
I just think if one is severely ill whether mental illness or physical that gaining some weight from a medication that cures the ailment is an irrational reason not to take it. There is a big difference between being unhappy about being overweight and being depressed.
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