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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Optimist on November 30, 2004, at 17:37:57
I was wondering if anyone could give me some input on the difference in efficacy between the MAOi's(Nardil and Parnate) vs the combo of wellbutrin + SSRI(Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, etc...)
I'm currently taking 450mg Wellbutrin SR(last 4 months), 40mg of Prozac(one month) and 5mg of Adderall XR(last 3 months) per day. This combo is helping a lot in the energy, motivation department as all the meds are activating but they aren't seeming to do anything about my social anxiety. My main problems are depression (dysthymia, SAD), and social anxiety.
Since the Wellbutrin/SSRI combo increases serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine, similar to an MAOi I was wondering if they could be similar in efficacy.
If anyone has any experience to share, or suggestions regarding the comparing of the two I'd like to hear.
I was thinking of giving Parnate a shot since I've heard it's better in regard to social anxiety.
Posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 22:31:57
In reply to MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI, posted by Optimist on November 30, 2004, at 17:37:57
Hi Optimist, I like your posting name.
I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin before I was diagnosed with atypical depression. Once I got that diagnosis and after some time doing research and soul searching, I got off the SSRI/Wellbutrin and started Nardil at the recommendation of my T. It has been a godsend for me. There was an immediate change in how I felt. The results were much better than any SSRI or combo I've tried. Now admittedly I didn't try them all because MAOI's were "the gold standard" for atypical depression, and I figured why not try what's supposed to work best?
But there is no comparison for me in the differences between the two. I'm not sure I can even quantify the effect from SSRI's now that I know what normal really feels like again.
Good luck whatever you decide.
gg
Posted by Optimist on November 30, 2004, at 23:19:19
In reply to Re: MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI » Optimist, posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 22:31:57
> Hi Optimist, I like your posting name.
>
> I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin before I was diagnosed with atypical depression. Once I got that diagnosis and after some time doing research and soul searching, I got off the SSRI/Wellbutrin and started Nardil at the recommendation of my T. It has been a godsend for me. There was an immediate change in how I felt. The results were much better than any SSRI or combo I've tried. Now admittedly I didn't try them all because MAOI's were "the gold standard" for atypical depression, and I figured why not try what's supposed to work best?
>
> But there is no comparison for me in the differences between the two. I'm not sure I can even quantify the effect from SSRI's now that I know what normal really feels like again.
>
> Good luck whatever you decide.
>
> gg
>
>
Thanks Gardenergirl for the input. I picked the name mainly because I was a huge motivational/self help/positive psychology junky. I seem to struggle with the optimism at times though as we all do from time to time. I guess that's the effect depression can have. It runs deep in my family, so I'm sure there is a biological contribution for sure in my case.The MAOi's intrique me a lot in terms of their effectiveness. They seem to be a head above all the other AD's for most depression related illnesses. I'm more partial to Parnate as it seems to have a more activating profile as I need help in that department. I'm not sure if I have atypical depression or not. My depression is characterized as mostly lack of energy and motivation, mood reactivity, sensitivity to rejection, and some social anxiety. Those characteristics seem to imply atypical depression it seems but my pdoc doesn't necessarily think so. We're still ironing that out.
I thought I may have had some form of bipolar due to me being extremely moody, but I've never had an extended period of hypomania. I can never sleep much less than 8 hours a night, and with the AD combo I'm currently on my pdoc said I'd go hypomanic/manic most definitely. My pdoc said I was on "rocketfuel" do to all the activating meds I'm on. She seems quite surprised I don't have insomnia issues, but sleep has never been a problem with me. My grandmother was bipolar 1, and my sister may be as well. We're still trying to figure that one out.
I'm supposed to refill my Prozac tomorrow. I suppose I haven't given it a fair trial yet as I've only been on it for a month now. The Wellbutrin and Adderall for much longer. Since I know there is a 5 week washout period with the Prozac though, I'd like to discontinue that as soon as possible if I were to give the Parnate a shot.
The Parnate does seem to be up my alley though. I don't think my pdoc would have a problem prescribing it. She seems to be less conservative in that regard. I know she prescribes multiple drugs, benzo's, and stimulants so I don't think it should be a problem.
I had a 6 month run of Moclobemide last year, but it didn't seem to be having much effect. I was on twice the recommended max 1200mg per day, and it felt like I was on a placebo. No side effects, and no apparent antidepressant effects either.
Wish me luck!
Posted by King Vultan on December 1, 2004, at 12:13:30
In reply to MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI, posted by Optimist on November 30, 2004, at 17:37:57
> I was wondering if anyone could give me some input on the difference in efficacy between the MAOi's(Nardil and Parnate) vs the combo of wellbutrin + SSRI(Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, etc...)
>
> I'm currently taking 450mg Wellbutrin SR(last 4 months), 40mg of Prozac(one month) and 5mg of Adderall XR(last 3 months) per day. This combo is helping a lot in the energy, motivation department as all the meds are activating but they aren't seeming to do anything about my social anxiety. My main problems are depression (dysthymia, SAD), and social anxiety.
>
> Since the Wellbutrin/SSRI combo increases serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine, similar to an MAOi I was wondering if they could be similar in efficacy.
>
> If anyone has any experience to share, or suggestions regarding the comparing of the two I'd like to hear.
>
> I was thinking of giving Parnate a shot since I've heard it's better in regard to social anxiety.
The MAOIs would have much stronger effects on norepinephrine than an SSRI + Wellbutrin, and this is perhaps one of the keys to their effectiveness. Nardil reminded me in many ways of desipramine, which is a strong NE reuptake inhibitor, but I felt Nardil had stronger AD effects and considerably more ability to get me to go out and socialize. I found myself actually striking up conversations with people in situations where I probably wouldn't have done so otherwise.Parnate, OTOH, reminds me more of Wellbutrin in its ability to increase drive and motivation. It also seems to have made me much bolder and more self confident, which has been a real help for my social phobia, and I would rate Parnate superior to Nardil for my particular problem. However, I would still say that I was more outgoing and sociable on Nardil, if that makes any sense. Parnate does a better job of neutralizing the panic attack like symptoms that strike me sometimes in social situations, manifested by rapidly increasing anxiety and runaway, profuse sweating. Nardil was relatively effective at preventing this, too; it just wasn't as good as Parnate.
Todd
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on December 1, 2004, at 19:51:16
In reply to Re: MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI » Optimist, posted by King Vultan on December 1, 2004, at 12:13:30
Have you considered a tricyclic antidepressant first? Like desipramine mentioned by King Vultan? I just suggest it b/c they are supposed to have fewer side effects and don't have the dietary restrictions. I myself recently started on Desipramine and have never done an MAOI. Desipramine seems okay, but don't think that I have had a complete response. Might be worth asking about.
EE
Posted by Optimist on December 1, 2004, at 20:53:08
In reply to Re: MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI, posted by Emily Elizabeth on December 1, 2004, at 19:51:16
> Have you considered a tricyclic antidepressant first? Like desipramine mentioned by King Vultan? I just suggest it b/c they are supposed to have fewer side effects and don't have the dietary restrictions. I myself recently started on Desipramine and have never done an MAOI. Desipramine seems okay, but don't think that I have had a complete response. Might be worth asking about.
>
> EENo, I haven't really considered a tricyclic. I haven't been at this med thing very long. Just a little over a year but I don't want to be searching for the next 10 trying to find the "magic" pill either. I'd rather just bring the big guns out and try a squash this thing as quick as I can.
My impression of Parnate from reading people's experiences on this board is that the side effects aren't really that bad. Nardil is worse, but I think that would be a second line treatment if the Parnate didn't work out. I seem to have more atypical features to my depression and I'm not so convinced the tricyclics are that useful in that regard. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm also very meticulous with my diet as it is, so the diet restrictions shouldn't be a problem in my case. The drug interactions aren't that big a deal either since I'm a pretty healthy person physically and don't need prescription meds very often.
The drugs I've been on so far are:
1. Effexor 75mg(Made me feel like a zombie)
2. Wellbutrin 450mg(Best so far, but is not breaking through
3. Moclobemide 1200mg(Felt like a placebo)
4. Lamictal 100mg(Made me a complete space head, with headaches and poor memory)
5. Adderall 5mg(Not bad but is seeming to reduce it's effectiveness)
6. Prozac 40mg(Activating but no response as of yet)
7. St. John's Wort 2700mg(Seemed ok but not very strong even at 3 times the recommended dose)The substances that have made me feel the greatest are caffeine and Vitex. Vitex is a weak dopamine agonist similar to Bromocriptine. You can buy it at the health food store for 10 bucks a bottle here in Canada. I usually get a response in about 3 days that is quite robust, but the effect is fleeting. It tends to poop out after a month so it has to be cycled. It's not a viable long term solution it seems. Vitex seems to help me most with energy, sociability, humour, fun, personality, and confidence. I feel like I'm acting like the person I should be, the real me.
I recently just started the Vitex again after a few month layoff last week and the response blows away the wellbutrin, prozac, and adderall I'm currently on. The great response has made me believe that there's got to me an AD that is better than what I'm currently on that works over the long term. Considering Parnate's dopaminergic abilities and impressive track record I thought I'd give that a shot.
I've found that even though Wellbutrin and Adderall are dopaminergic they fail in comparison to Vitex. And for a 10 dollar months supply it's definitely cost effective as well.
Posted by Optimist on December 1, 2004, at 21:30:33
In reply to Re: MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI » Optimist, posted by King Vultan on December 1, 2004, at 12:13:30
> > I was wondering if anyone could give me some input on the difference in efficacy between the MAOi's(Nardil and Parnate) vs the combo of wellbutrin + SSRI(Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, etc...)
> >
> > I'm currently taking 450mg Wellbutrin SR(last 4 months), 40mg of Prozac(one month) and 5mg of Adderall XR(last 3 months) per day. This combo is helping a lot in the energy, motivation department as all the meds are activating but they aren't seeming to do anything about my social anxiety. My main problems are depression (dysthymia, SAD), and social anxiety.
> >
> > Since the Wellbutrin/SSRI combo increases serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine, similar to an MAOi I was wondering if they could be similar in efficacy.
> >
> > If anyone has any experience to share, or suggestions regarding the comparing of the two I'd like to hear.
> >
> > I was thinking of giving Parnate a shot since I've heard it's better in regard to social anxiety.
>
>
> The MAOIs would have much stronger effects on norepinephrine than an SSRI + Wellbutrin, and this is perhaps one of the keys to their effectiveness. Nardil reminded me in many ways of desipramine, which is a strong NE reuptake inhibitor, but I felt Nardil had stronger AD effects and considerably more ability to get me to go out and socialize. I found myself actually striking up conversations with people in situations where I probably wouldn't have done so otherwise.
>
> Parnate, OTOH, reminds me more of Wellbutrin in its ability to increase drive and motivation. It also seems to have made me much bolder and more self confident, which has been a real help for my social phobia, and I would rate Parnate superior to Nardil for my particular problem. However, I would still say that I was more outgoing and sociable on Nardil, if that makes any sense. Parnate does a better job of neutralizing the panic attack like symptoms that strike me sometimes in social situations, manifested by rapidly increasing anxiety and runaway, profuse sweating. Nardil was relatively effective at preventing this, too; it just wasn't as good as Parnate.
>
> Todd
Thanks Todd,I enjoy reading success stories from people on AD's. There seems to be a lot of them with Nardil and Parnate. The responses seem to be more "life-changing" and robust than with a lot of the SSRI's and trycyclics. That's just my observations though. There doesn't seem to be as many "It's working but..." scenarios with MAOi's.
I'm going to have to have a 5 week washout period with my Prozac though and 2 weeks for my Wellbutrin, if what I've read is correct before I could start Parnate.
I think my pdoc will be pretty receptive to Parnate but I think she would want me to have a longer trial on the Prozac since I've only been on it for 4 weeks. I just can't see myself getting a robust AD effect after another 4 weeks though, and I really don't want to waste anymore time. I was starting to develop some sexual sides as well on the 40mg of Prozac which I wasn't too enthused about either.
I didn't give the Effexor a fair chance either at 2 weeks but felt like such garbage at that point(lethargy, zombieness, sexual sides, more depressed) so I decided to quit. I was an AD virgin at that point as well, as was a little freaked out about the whole thing. I didn't like the side effects or the idea of being on AD's. I've changed now though in that I couldn't care less if I had to be on AD's for the rest of my life, as long as I feel better.
Thanks for the info,
Brian
Posted by cybercafe on December 5, 2004, at 5:43:50
In reply to Re: MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI... Vitex » Emily Elizabeth, posted by Optimist on December 1, 2004, at 20:53:08
> My impression of Parnate from reading people's experiences on this board is that the side effects aren't really that bad. Nardil is
parnate has side effects?? you mean like increased libido and decreased appetite?
i've been on it a year now, it's definately life changing for me (tried effexor, SSRIs, etc, only partial remission) ... though i do take low dose parnate (30 mg) whereas i was taking high dose everything else (like 225 or 300 mg effexor etc)
anyways it's quite strange.. i am (was?) bipolar, but i have been off a mood stabilizer for a while and am totally stable, taking an maoi (parnate) + a stimulant (ritalin)
i don't really think of the dietary restrictions -- no marmite, red wine (i wouldn't drink anyways), aged cheese (i can eat most cheese), tofu (this is the only one i am really afraid of since my roomate offers me a lot of chinese food covered in tofu but in restaurants i'm okay)
Posted by Optimist on December 5, 2004, at 6:28:44
In reply to Re: MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI... Vitex, posted by cybercafe on December 5, 2004, at 5:43:50
Cybercafe,
Do you take Ritalin for ADD/ADHD symptoms or more for energy/motivation?
And do you find Parnate offers much of stimulant effect in general? I'm currently on a lot of stimulating meds, and was wondering if I may need additions to the Parnate if I may go on it.
Currently I have 100% remission of my depression/anxiety symptoms but I know it will be short lived. The dopamine agonist Vitex that I'm on seems to be the best thing I've ever taken but it always seems shortlived. That seems to be common I know with a lot of pro-dopamine drugs. It constantly needs to be cycled.
Does Parnate have much of a pro-dopamine effect by itself? I've heard it does have some but I'm not sure to what magnitude.
Compared to the 450mg of wellbutrin and 5mg of Adderall XR I take every day the Vitex is extremely more robust in the pro-dopamine department. I'd love to be able to find something that could work just as well but last on a more permanent basis.
Thanks a lot in advance. Your help is very much appreciated.
> parnate has side effects?? you mean like increased libido and decreased appetite?
>
> i've been on it a year now, it's definately life changing for me (tried effexor, SSRIs, etc, only partial remission) ... though i do take low dose parnate (30 mg) whereas i was taking high dose everything else (like 225 or 300 mg effexor etc)
>
> anyways it's quite strange.. i am (was?) bipolar, but i have been off a mood stabilizer for a while and am totally stable, taking an maoi (parnate) + a stimulant (ritalin)
>
> i don't really think of the dietary restrictions -- no marmite, red wine (i wouldn't drink anyways), aged cheese (i can eat most cheese), tofu (this is the only one i am really afraid of since my roomate offers me a lot of chinese food covered in tofu but in restaurants i'm okay)
Posted by KaraS on December 5, 2004, at 19:58:04
In reply to Re: MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI... Vitex, posted by cybercafe on December 5, 2004, at 5:43:50
> > My impression of Parnate from reading people's experiences on this board is that the side effects aren't really that bad. Nardil is
>
> parnate has side effects?? you mean like increased libido and decreased appetite?
>
> i've been on it a year now, it's definately life changing for me (tried effexor, SSRIs, etc, only partial remission) ... though i do take low dose parnate (30 mg) whereas i was taking high dose everything else (like 225 or 300 mg effexor etc)
>
> anyways it's quite strange.. i am (was?) bipolar, but i have been off a mood stabilizer for a while and am totally stable, taking an maoi (parnate) + a stimulant (ritalin)
>
> i don't really think of the dietary restrictions -- no marmite, red wine (i wouldn't drink anyways), aged cheese (i can eat most cheese), tofu (this is the only one i am really afraid of since my roomate offers me a lot of chinese food covered in tofu but in restaurants i'm okay)
Excuse me for barging in here. I'm considering taking Parnate and I've been trying to get a handle on the foods you can and can't eat but I'm still a bit confused. I thought that most cheese is aged - that you can really only eat American or Mozzarella cheese when you're on an MAOI.Also, I thought that tofu was ok but that soy sauce was the biggest problem. That one worries me because when you go to a restaurant it's so easy for them to coat the meat with, or to include in the dish, some teriaki sauce or soy sauce. Even when I've ordered a grilled chicken sandwich, I've seen them brush on some sauce that contains soy. I don't trust that they will always tell you that - particularly if it isn't an expensive restaurant where you're waited on by good wait people. I recently went to a "Baja Fresh" and the people behind the counter barely spoke English let alone could tell you what's in the food. Maybe the answer is that you just can't go to places like that anymore. But what if you're out and are really hungry --- do you have to go to an expensive sit down restaurant every time? I'm sure I'm making more of this than I need to because lots of people are surviving on MAOIs without constantly having major problems but if someone could answer this, I'd feel a lot better.
I'm also still confused when I read packages and I see "soy protein isolate" or "soy protein concentrate". Are those things ok? If not, they're in so many things. I recently ate some Trader Joe's meat balls made out of turkey. They had one of the above soy protein ingredients in them. If i had gone to someone's house or even a restaurant that used these premade meat balls, I never would known about the soy content.Red wine, liquor and liqueurs, marmite and beer from a keg are the other big offenders, right? Those are much easier to stay away from ... although there could be wine or liqueurs in food and especially desserts. Maybe this part isn't so easy either. Why am I finding this so overwhelming?
Kara
Posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2004, at 22:01:06
In reply to Re: MAOI diet questions again (sorry), posted by KaraS on December 5, 2004, at 19:58:04
Kara,
It's probably so overwhelming due to all the contradicting stuff out there. I found it best to start out cautious and follow the posted restrictions, even those that seemed unneccessary at first. I then began to add stuff back in that seemed safest based on new research (post 1996) and what others' experiences have been.So, to add to your confusion...I drink red wine without any problem. I never have more than 2 or 3 glasses in one evening...usually just one. So perhaps I'm not getting enough tyramine to cause an effect. But one of the studies I read seemed to confirm that there is not much in red wine, anyway.
Whenever I try something new, I go slow and try just a small amount first. Plus, I make sure my hubby knows what to do and say in the unlikely event he needed to take me to the hospital.
gg
Posted by SDW on December 5, 2004, at 23:47:33
In reply to Re: MAOI diet questions again (sorry) » KaraS, posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2004, at 22:01:06
Hi, I have been on Parnate several times over a 15-year period and just recently restarted it after a 5-month break.
It’s true that the restrictions have been exaggerated in the past. I am glad that people are being given the opportunity to use these meds, and I would say: Don’t let the diet scare you. I was scared at first, but over the years I have realized how easy it is if you just follow some sensible rules.
I have never had any kind of reaction. Here are just a couple of things I’ve learned “on the front line” that might be useful…Keep in mind; this has been my experience…use your judgment and trust your doc or pharmacist.
RED WINE:
Some white wines actually have more Tyramine than some red wines, so color isn’t the real factor. Chianti is risky, as are very dark, heavy red wines, but common drinking wines like Burgundy are fine. White wines, like Chablis and Chardonnay, are almost always OK if you consume them in moderation. Age is a factor, so just think twice before drinking a 1947 vintage of anything….With food, the words “Fermented” and “Cured” are red flags…any protein food that gets its characteristic flavor from aging is something to notice.
CHEESE
Some people tolerate small amounts of mild cheddar OK. With cheese, a doctor once told me, “more smelly and moldy, more risky”.PIZZA
is fine. Pepperoni and sausage could be a problem for some.CHOCOLATE
is fine…The original concern was the tiny amount of caffeine in chocolate, and the Phenylalanine (Amino Acid). You would probably have to eat about 1 kg of chocolate to cause a reaction. (Trust me: I have eaten embarrassingly large amounts)BANANAS are fine, if they are not over-ripe. And, just in case you are so inclined, never eat the PEEL. There was a case of a woman who ate stewed banana peel…why she felt she needed to do this anyway, I don’t know.
AVOCADO
Fine, if not overripe.Hope some of this is helpful…I’ll let you know if I think of anything else.
Best,
Stephen
Posted by cybercafe on December 6, 2004, at 18:03:25
In reply to Re: MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI... Vitex » cybercafe, posted by Optimist on December 5, 2004, at 6:28:44
> Cybercafe,
>
> Do you take Ritalin for ADD/ADHD symptoms or more for energy/motivation?I take it for what I consider to be really bad ADHD.
> And do you find Parnate offers much of stimulant effect in general? I'm currently on a lot of stimulating meds, and was wondering if I may need additions to the Parnate if I may go on it.
Yeah, even at a low dose (and on a lot of meds I've tried high dosages), I find it offers a substantial stimulant effect. Really good for me. Probably not good for someone with insomnia :)
> Currently I have 100% remission of my depression/anxiety symptoms but I know it will be short lived. The dopamine agonist Vitex that I'm on seems to be the best thing I've ever taken but it always seems shortlived. That seems to be common I know with a lot of pro-dopamine drugs. It constantly needs to be cycled.Yeah.... I tried just taking ritalin by itself but the antidepressant effects weren't that great (after the first week anyway) and very short lived.
> Does Parnate have much of a pro-dopamine effect by itself? I've heard it does have some but I'm not sure to what magnitude.
I'm not sure how to measure this... but it definately seems to increase energy, decrease need for sleep, increase libido, etc
But at the same time... it seems a lot less likely to induce mania than SSRIs/Effexor and I believed mania to be somehow related to dopamine receptors (D2 in mesocortical regions??)
> Compared to the 450mg of wellbutrin and 5mg of Adderall XR I take every day the Vitex is extremely more robust in the pro-dopamine department. I'd love to be able to find something that could work just as well but last on a more permanent basis.
Yeah I hear you, totally. It was no fun when I tried out just ritalin (no AD) and was depressed when I woke up in the morning. Then finally took ritalin SR and was ok (not great, but okay) for 3 hours. Then took another and had another 3 hours without depression. Then depressed (rebound was hell) for rest of the day!
Havn't seen a pdoc in about a year, but the one I did see (who was quite knowledgable) told me to stay away from amphetamines (Dexedrine, Adderall) as anything more "potent" (reversing uptake transporter?) than ritalin would cause psychosis. Then again, he also told me that if I took ritalin without an antipsychotic I would go psychotic and so far that has not been the case.
> Thanks a lot in advance. Your help is very much appreciated.No problem dude... sorry if I don't log in as often as i used to. Used to log in 20 times a day, now I log in maybe once a month... too busy chasing wealth, sports, women, etc etc !
Good luck and be well!
Just when you've given up you might find the answer is just around the corner!
Posted by Optimist on December 6, 2004, at 20:08:40
In reply to Re: MAOi's vs Wellbutrin + SSRI... Vitex, posted by cybercafe on December 6, 2004, at 18:03:25
> > Thanks a lot in advance. Your help is very much appreciated.
>
> No problem dude... sorry if I don't log in as often as i used to. Used to log in 20 times a day, now I log in maybe once a month... too busy chasing wealth, sports, women, etc etc !That's a good thing. You're doing better so you're not so preoccupied with beating this thing. I find the worse my mood is the more I'm searching the internet for answers. When things are going well, I couldn't care less. I go on with the rest of my life, like sports, women, wealth, etc... lol
Thanks for the input. Mostly likely I will get a script for Parnate on my next pdoc visit. Now it's just a matter of waiting the 5 weeks for my Prozac to get out of my system. It shouldn't be too bad though. I mostly have just low level depression and anxiety. Nothing as serious as many on this forum. It's still a pain in the ass though. :)
My pdoc is quite open minded though so I don't see getting the script as being a problem. Take care.
Posted by sfy on December 7, 2004, at 13:24:05
In reply to Re: MAOI diet questions again (sorry), posted by SDW on December 5, 2004, at 23:47:33
> RED WINE:
> Some white wines actually have more Tyramine than some red wines, so color isn’t the real factor. Chianti is risky, as are very dark, heavy red wines, but common drinking wines like Burgundy are fine. White wines, like Chablis and Chardonnay, are almost always OK if you consume them in moderation. Age is a factor, so just think twice before drinking a 1947 vintage of anything….Despite the long-standing prohibition against it, the most recent reports on MAOI diets have found that Chianti has relatively low levels of tyramine and is permissible.
Posted by KaraS on December 7, 2004, at 23:31:50
In reply to Re: MAOI diet questions again (sorry), posted by KaraS on December 5, 2004, at 19:58:04
This is the end of the thread.
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