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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2004, at 15:00:29
Hi,
Not so long ago, I had an interesting conversation with a retired psychiatric nurse who worked at Storthes Hall in the 1950s. Storthes Hall was a massive psychiatric hospital which has now been turned into student accomodation. Everyone locally knows about Storthes Hall. When I was little and being a nuisance my grandma used to say, 'you'll send me to Storthes Hall'.
I asked the nurse about the treatments they used to use. Mainly, people were just sedated and that was about it. Paraldehyde (Paral) was very popular, it left a very strong smell on the patients' breath. Apparantly, everyone hated chlorpromazine (Thorazine/Largactil) but Librium 'seemed to make people better'.
Does anyone on psycho-babble have any experience with the old sedative-hypnotics? ...... Maybe they were prescribed for severe insomnia.... or maybe you've been taking them for the last 60 years because you can't get off them. Recently, when I was working in a pharmacy, I noticed that most of the people taking barbiturates were in their 90s. One woman was 100!
I'd be interested to know how effective people have found the old sedatives for the treatment of insomnia... or maybe even anxiety, especially if benzos weren't satisfactory.
Has anyone taken any of these old (and rather toxic) drugs......
Secobarbital (eg. Seconal)
Amobarbital (eg. Amytal)
Butabarbital (eg. Soneryl)
Pentobarbital (eg. Nembutal)
Cyclobarbital (eg. Phanodorm)
Ethchlorvynol (eg. Placidyl)
Glutethimide (eg. Doriden)
Tuinal pulvules
Chlormethiazole (eg. Heminevrin, Distraneurine, Hemineurine)
Methaqualone (Quaalude, Sopor, or Mandrax-a combination with diphenhydramine)
Chloral hydrate/betaine (eg. Noctec, Welldorm)
Triclofos (Tricloryl)
Meprobamate (Equanil, Miltown)
Ethinamate (Valamin)
Paraldehyde (Paral)
.... or even a bromide!!!All the best.....
Ed.
Posted by mmcconathy on November 25, 2004, at 15:09:54
In reply to Sedative-hypnotics, posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2004, at 15:00:29
I have taken Amytal (amobarbital) once to level anxiety with Dexedrine.
I took 50mg, then raised it to 200mg for insomnia.
An old-fashioned sedation, decreased behavior, inhibited, an overall feeling of just calm. Nothing more.
I stayed on a 2 month trial with it, and finally stopped it
Posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2004, at 15:22:33
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by mmcconathy on November 25, 2004, at 15:09:54
Subjectively, how did Amytal differ from a benzo?
.......just realised that I missed methyprylon (Noludar) of my list...and thalidomide-the most notorious sedative-hypnotic of all!
Ed.
Posted by mmcconathy on November 25, 2004, at 15:31:50
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by mmcconathy on November 25, 2004, at 15:09:54
heavier sedation
Posted by mmcconathy on November 25, 2004, at 15:40:45
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by mmcconathy on November 25, 2004, at 15:31:50
decreased alertness more, so it was difficult to keep up on cogitive tasks, but aht was only higher doses.
Posted by Phillipa on November 25, 2004, at 16:22:51
In reply to Sedative-hypnotics, posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2004, at 15:00:29
I currently take chloral hydrate, l0cc's at bedtime. It puts me to sleep fast, but only lasts 4-6hrs. I usually divide the dose into 5cc's at bedtime, and then 5cc's when I wake during the night to go back to sleep. I also take l.75 of Klonopin at bedtime too. I have always had bad insomnia. Years ago I took Placidyl to sleep but don't remember much about it. The same with meprobomate. Just remember I stopped it when my anxiety was relieved by valium alone with no problem. Hope this helps. Phillipa
Posted by mmcconathy on November 26, 2004, at 21:07:31
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by Phillipa on November 25, 2004, at 16:22:51
You may want to look into Ativan. I've taken it, it lasts about 6 hours, its smooth and easy anxiety and insomnia.
Amytal lasts 6 hours also, but is more harder to function on when taken for anxiety, and defintly can cause grogginess in the morning. Reasoning, why old-generation medications have become inferior to today's medications.
But can help other people who dont respond.
Take Care
Posted by ed_uk on November 27, 2004, at 17:53:05
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by mmcconathy on November 26, 2004, at 21:07:31
Hi,
Thank you for your responses. I do like Ativan, but benzos are not entirely satisfactory for me. Compared with Ativan, how effective do you find Amytal for anxiety?
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 13:59:58
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics » mmcconathy, posted by ed_uk on November 27, 2004, at 17:53:05
mmmmmm, Ativan causes your feel "clean" and back to normal, normal funtioning without the anxiety. Amytal is more rough, it cuts anxiety but causes more mental fog or slowing, slows your normal functioning, you feel more "down", noticed sedation.
Ativan can do this, but at higher doses, but still they have their own effects.
Are you considering trying Amytal?
Posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 14:15:26
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 13:59:58
Hi mmcconathy,
Sorry about the misunderstanding about the opium. I always get stressed out when people misunderstand my posts!!
No, I wasn't considering trying Amytal. There is no way I would ever get prescribed it. My pdoc doesn't even prescribe Ativan. I just wondered whether certain people might find Amytal more effective for anxiety than a benzo. I'm sure many people would find it less effective though.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 14:22:24
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 13:59:58
Sodium Amytal is also known as the infamous "truth serem", it used at times in criminal interview and hypnosis sessions to recover deep memories.
Posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 14:26:19
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 13:59:58
this is one atvantage over benzo's, it makes information come more clear to recover, while benzo's have been known to cause amnesia.
Forgot to tell you that, sorry
Posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 15:25:05
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 14:26:19
Hi,
It would be nice to try Amytal so that I could compare it with the benzos. Although the barbiturates are more dangerous than the benzodiazepines in general, I have always wondered to what extent the differences between the two classes of drugs have been overexaggerated (eg. by the manufacturers of the benzodiazepines.) To make a comparison, the advantages of the SSRIs (over the benzos) have been overstated, much to the benefit of Lilly, Lundbeck, GSK etc.
Did Amytal have any other advantages apart from the absence of amnesia. Did it reduce your anxiety effectively?
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 19:06:28
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics » mmcconathy, posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 15:25:05
There's not a big differnece between the classes, they both produce a similar feeling of calm, dont that be confusing to you, just toxity issues with barbs.
Barbiturates arnt really known to cause amnesia, they ease memory block to help recall information, amytal sometimes helped me rermeber where i put paper work when i lost it, but it's not really an intresting drug. To me its just a downer.
It was effective for reliving the anxiety caused by dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine). When I took it by itself, it really made me drag, 50-100mg is effective for anxiety, 200mg will cause mental slowing, i usally didnt drive under that dose.
I stoped it because i adapted to the Dexedrine naturally.
What anti-anxiety meds are taking right now?
Posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 19:53:46
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 19:06:28
Hi,
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I take citalopram 60mg/day for anxiety.
How did you get your doc to prescribe the Amytal? (Or wasn't it prescribed!)
Ed.
Posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 21:28:03
In reply to Re: Sedative-hypnotics, posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 19:53:46
Dexedrine was causing more physical anxiety than mental(sweating, heart paplations, feeling lightheaded)
Started with Klonopin, then went to Ativan, Serax, none of them where taking care of the heart paplations, i should of just used a beta-blocker, but eventually mentioned it because my dad used to take it for his severe migranes along with pain med.
He agreed to use a low dose of 50mg. Then soon i raised for insomnia also, so i took it for both occations.
But i got off it, and felt better, thanks to the natural process of adaption.
Take Care
This is the end of the thread.
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