![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1219 to 1243 of 1838. Go back in thread:
Posted by headachequeen on November 16, 2004, at 10:49:40
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression » headachequeen, posted by stresser on November 16, 2004, at 8:55:27
> I am really impressed with your parenting skills. Your are the parent I have always wanted to be, but didn't know how. I feel ecredibly guilty, so much so that it's creating a new depression. I know that I don't hug my children enough, and because of it they aren't affectionate people. I was never showed much affection as a child, and should have known better, but I guess I didn't. Some things are hard to change, and some people are hard to change. What I would give to do it all over again.....I think of Bridgey with her little one's and envy her because she hasn't had much of a chance to screw up yet. You will have to excuse my pity party today. It's raining outside....and that seems to put me in a ratty mood. The bottome of the pit seems really deep today, and I don't have a clue as to why. Tomorrow could be a total turn around, who knows. Wierd huh? We will keep plugging away on the medication as always. Keep going everyone! -L
My parenting skills so-called were learned from mistakes and from the lack of parenting I received... my mother was Aberdeen granite and did not believe in displays of emotion... I never received a hug or any demonstration of affection in my entire childhood or teens ...
but I had this grandfather... oh what a treasure...
he was not a hugging person but he was a loving person and I spent a lot of time with my grandparents...and a hug is not always a 'hug' ...
a touch that is gentle and loving.. brushing the hair back from the eyes... a pat on the arm...
a quick arm around the shoulders...
any contact that is gentle, loving, and physical...
and meant to convey the message that you care...parenting is a learn as you go process and we tried to fix our mistakes as we went... we learned to say I'm sorry, I was wrong, can we start again
a lot..one time we had a girl who hated getting out of bed... when she slept she escaped...
so one Sunday rather than make her get up and go to church with the rest of us, she always went with me in the evening anyway and I don't think the hour of the day really matters, we tied her door with toilet paper ribbons and bows and made her a gift of the morning..
She was so happy when she got up...
well once she got past the irritation of the gift-wrapped bedroom door... she didn't see it the way the rest of us did at first.. and it lasted all day..
a first for her..
she had a lot to get past...
her mom used to trade her for rent money from the time she was eleven...
she tried to kill herself a couple of times by overdosing on her mother's valium. The third time they brought her here right from the psych ward at her local hospital...
I was terrified that she would try again; we had never had a child under our roof who had tried to kill herself so immediately...
I was afraid to go to sleep or to turn my back on her for even a second... eventually I relaxed and she relaxed..
she used to mark the bottles in the liquor cabinet.. all three or four of them, and the first thing she would do when she came home from school was check the marks she had put on them...
she was not quite thirteen and had lived through so much I had never imagined...
The agency decided to send her home when she was fifteen...
I couldn't believe it...
how could they do that to her after all that had happened to her...
three months later, her sixteenth birthday, when they can no longer exert control if she chooses to leave, there was a knock on the door and there she was, wondering if she could stay for a few days...
how long? oh, till I finish college...
She is now legally ours... and an incredibly gifted and understanding social worker dealing with add and adhd children as well as a new program she has developed for teens in trouble with the law...
her agency lends her all over the country to teach others how to implement her programme for add and adhd...
and everytime she calls to tell me where she is winging off to next I am in absolute awe that this wondrous creature was able to survive the incredible abuse and torture she endured...my dear L, your parenting skills are not at all in question... you are working from love and care and concern....
you feel that they are not up to par because your daughter is going through one of the teen crises that is so agonising and you feel as all parents do that it must be your fault..
after all, mothers are supposed to be able to fix it all with a kiss...
well, it ain't so.. that is another of the television script-writers' myths...
mothers are not super-creatures...
they are human and doing the best they can to work with the available resources to make life easier for the children they love...
that is what parenting skills really are...
love and using the available resources...
a little resilience is helpful too....the people like my darling Susie's mother, for lack of a better term, are the ones without parenting skills... she didn't even want any...
her child was a useful commodity...
that is lack of parenting skills... lack of caring, lack of love, total self-absorption...you don't even come close to having poor parenting skills...
oh, ma chere amie, you aren't even on the richter scale....
sorry if I burst your balloon because you are a darned caring and dedicated mom... it is in every post you write about your daughter...
every single word....kat who has met some of the worst
Posted by rainy on November 16, 2004, at 14:43:16
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression, posted by headachequeen on November 16, 2004, at 14:03:16
Which is what Kat just said..the health part. I just got back from my therapist visit where I squirmed until she asked if I were uncomfortable and I told her about the pain in my upper left back, shoulder and arm that has been increasing to the point of waking me every time I turn over.
hurts when I drive, get dressed--you get the picture. I shout "ow" in the grocery store and had an excuse to leave church early becuse I couldn't deal with the pew.Turns out from the package insert that one of the main side effects of provigil is "back pain." They aren't specific about location. Now what I've got is a huge muscle spasm, starting at my left shoulder and running down to the middle of my back, close to my spine. I can feel the knots in the durn thing. I also think that may be where the sudden tingling, especially in my left hand is coming from. I've been blaming Topamax.
At my appointment, the therapist showed me some acupuncture points, we did some "tapping" on them and the pain lessened enough to get me home--a 25 minute trip on a busy highway, without damage. She also gave me, at my request, the # of her acupuncturist.
I have an appointment with an orthopdist Thursday. I'm finding that the provigil does clear the oatmeal out of my head and when taken in divided doses doesn't semm as anxiety provoking as when snarfed down all at once. So--do I complain to Pdoc today about it and risk getting jerked off of it or wait until the muscle guy has had a look?
What kinds of experience have you guys had with acupuncture? A close friend as well as our daughter have found it very helpful. Gererally I prefer alternative routes. another thing about provigil is that it seems to be an appetite supressant and even at 100 mgs and on Topamax, I've wanted to eat and eat the last couple of days. !!??
Wouldn't it be nice to just be?
rainy
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 17, 2004, at 5:09:16
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression, posted by headachequeen on November 16, 2004, at 10:49:40
> My parenting skills so-called were learned from mistakes and from the lack of parenting I received...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding parenting skills to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20041114/msgs/416940.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by rainy on November 18, 2004, at 20:17:37
In reply to Redirect: parenting skills, posted by Dr. Bob on November 17, 2004, at 5:09:16
According to the pacakage insert, on of the main reasons people quit taking provigil is because of muscle stiffness. I've been on 200 mgs of the stuff for about a month in the hope that it would help to alleviate some of the lethargy and muzziness that are apparently a function of bothe the depression and the treatment of bipolar II.
Well. My back has been killing me for about ten days--a super spasm-- but it wasn't until I read the consumer info that came with my refill and saw "muscle stiffness" as one of the things to report promptly to the doc that I connected the two. I went to the orthopedist today in the hope of a referral to P.T for some massage or heat and exercise or something and maybe some significant pain pills like tylenol # 3. I suspected a roator cuff injury, too. I also planned to call my Pdoc immediately after seeing ortho to ask her opinion about dicontinuing provigil (instead of just doing it on my own.)The ortho guy offered me steriods, which I know from experience are a real mood destabilizer. Hypomania or the pits or both within minutes--it's just awful. The he suggested Rx NSAIDs which are major downers for me--even aspirin can shove me over the edge into the doldrums if Topamax isn't paying attention or I'm not. When I toldn him these facts of life and mentioned that I have bipolar II he got sort of annoyed and said I was tying his hands. I also told him I thought it was a srug side effect, he said no it was definately rotator cuff. He said he wasn't familiar with provigil and didn't know about its adverse effects. I asked him about other meds, he said there weree about 30 of them but they would probably all interact with my other "problems." I suggested that he could look them up. Pause. Now none of this was argumentative or angry or harsh on my part.
He gave me some exercises which will be helpful but right now it's painful to attempt them. I asked for some "pain pills." "Pain pills??" "You mean like codeine???" Affirmative nod. "They're addictive!! I would never give codeine to You!" So then I asked him if he would be offenede if I tried acupuncture--I've had some success with tapping on the acupunture points that my therapist showed me Tuesday--it got me through until today at least--and he said that while he had no experience with it I could try it and to let him know if it helped.
When I got home, I called pdoc and she agreed that indeed muscle spasm is a common adverse effect of provigil and suggested that I taper off from 200 mgs to 100 the next three mornings and then off. I'm going slower, 100 every other day. The tablets are scored. I only took 100 today because I hurt so bad.
As for the office visit, I think I know where I went wrong. I went in expecting a peer relationship for starters. I also had a diagnosis in mind that didn't fit in with this doctor's field of experience.
I challeneged his MO--I suggested he could look something up--there wasn't a book in sight in the little room and he had one foor out the door the whole time he was in there anyway.
Posted by stresser on November 18, 2004, at 20:40:55
In reply to a cautionary tale, posted by rainy on November 18, 2004, at 20:17:37
Are you sure your back problems are due to the medication, and not a problem with a muscle? I had a problem with my rotator cuff several years ago, and took some skelaxen (sp) for it. That seemed to help a little, but not as much as doing yoga. Yes, yoga, Power yoga to be exact. That strengthend my core, and my back problems that I was having went away along with my shoulder pain. Who would have guessed (not me) that yoga would correct those problems that I would have always have taken medication for. I thought yoga was too slow and boring at first, but when the pain and suffering started to ease up, I started thinking "hey, there might me something to this". I have been practicing several forms of yoga for around eight years or so, in fact; I liked it enough to teach it. It's calming, (I need that)I didn't realize how tight I really was until I had practiced it enought to loosen up my body. You may have some muscle imbalances that can be altered with some form of stretching. If only yoga could cure the other problems in life, huh? ...... There's always good ole' medication. -L
Posted by rainy on November 19, 2004, at 8:06:56
In reply to Re: a cautionary tale, posted by stresser on November 18, 2004, at 20:40:55
You have an excellent point, L. The only reason I connect the two is that the pain seems coincident with starting the provigil and the literature suggests that this med may be contraindicated in people with muscle weakness. I've had the latter ever since I had Guillain-barre in my early 20s and an autoimmune polyneurpathy a decade later. Ortho says rotator, Pdoc says provigil. Also there was no trauma attached to the spasm, physical that is.
I'm covering all bases: going off the provigil, calling the acupuncturist and when the pain lessens, doing the exercises. Also unrolling the yoga mat and getting out the tape someone loaned me. I've been wanting to restart yoga ever since we moved but it's been beyond budget.
My point in my prior post was that the physician refused to provide me with a short course of a commonly used analgesic for acute pain because he thought I would become addicted, apparently because I made the mistake of having a bipolar II diagnosis and telling him about it.
Also of challenging his diagnosis, or saying there might be more to it and of refusing his offerings, because in my experience the consequences of steriods aren't pretty and of NSAIDs, depressing.
So be careful what and how you share with a physician. Pdoc was very supportive of my annoyed unhappiness with the ortho visit. I forgot to ask her for some tylenol # 3, but I'm not sure psychiatrists Rx other meds anyway.
And thanks for the kick in the butt, L--yoga is wonderful for body, mind and spirit. I just have to get over this acute hump.
rainy
Posted by merry on November 19, 2004, at 14:13:41
In reply to Re: a cautionary tale » stresser, posted by rainy on November 19, 2004, at 8:06:56
I think I would like to try yoga. I have a shoulder and hip problem. tightness, pain. chiropractic treatments help a great deal but I cannot afford it much longer. Thanks.
merry
Posted by rainy on November 19, 2004, at 16:12:10
In reply to Re: a cautionary tale, posted by merry on November 19, 2004, at 14:13:41
I was thinking I couldn't afford yoga either until a friend loaned me a mat and a beginner's tape.
It can be relaxing, but there are some kinds that are strenuous--I don't know what they are and we might get kicked off again for discussing them. Yoga doesn't have horrible adverse effects like our friend Topamax and provigil and the SSRIs. At least you don't gain weight with it!
rainy.
Posted by stresser on November 19, 2004, at 20:25:55
In reply to no adverse effects » merry, posted by rainy on November 19, 2004, at 16:12:10
Here you are!! This is like "Hide and Seek"!!!!! <g>You are right about yoga, the only side-effects can be some muscle soreness. In it is cheap, all you need is a mat, or a towel. Do any of you take welbutrin? Have I asked that already? If so, what dosage do you take. My daughter is back on it, and we are waiting for it to kick-in. I'm quite concerned, because after reading some of Larry's post's, I understand that sometimes when you take a drug and stop, the second time around it may not work. Do any of you still binge with the topamax? She says it's working, but I do know what she is binging sometimes. We are also really considering changing Pdoc, because he's not helping her at all. We just left the office today, and I don't think anything has changed with her way of thinking about the binging in two years. He's a great guy, but I'm afraid he's not the one. I do know she came home and at half a bag of cookies.....so that didn't help today, huh? Anxiety really brings in on, I did learn that one. FINALLY. I think sometimes I'm brain dead. What's your take on all of this? -L
Posted by rainy on November 20, 2004, at 6:21:59
In reply to Re: no adverse effects, posted by stresser on November 19, 2004, at 20:25:55
I've been on wellbutrin for about five years, with one stop and restart this past september. Honestly, I don't know whether it helps or not. I think it raises my anxiety level a little. I'm on 100 mg SR q.i.d--I take one pill 4 times a day to maintain a steady state of the stuff in my blood or liver or wherever it's metabolized. Pdoc wanted me to take a 300 mg dose in the AM but the effect didn't stick with me--I could feel the clouds descending after about five hours. Sort of like aspirin for depression.
I went off because she thought it wasn't helping. As soon as I went off, I got really depressed so it must have been doing something.
It has had no effect on my appetite or weight as far as I can tell. I do get the jitters within a half an hour after taking each pill.It didn't help with the eating disorder. The literature says don't take it if you have a history of anorexia or bulimea, but it doesn't mention binge eating. The other two theoretically make a wellbutrin user more vulnerable to siezures. My former psychiatrist said that was a far out precaution.
It usually takes about a month to kick in, but people respond differently, especially adolescents.
I do know that we went to a rather silly play last night and I really laughed for the first time in weeks and weeks so something's working.
Speaking from my own experience, binge eating usually occured after a sharp rise/drop in blood sugar, like 20 minutes after a meal. At least as an adult. As a teen--I guess all bets were off. Whenever my parents left the house.
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 9:43:14
In reply to Re: no adverse effects, posted by stresser on November 19, 2004, at 20:25:55
> Here you are!! This is like "Hide and Seek"!!!!! <g>You are right about yoga, the only side-effects can be some muscle soreness. In it is cheap, all you need is a mat, or a towel. Do any of you take welbutrin? Have I asked that already? If so, what dosage do you take. My daughter is back on it, and we are waiting for it to kick-in. I'm quite concerned, because after reading some of Larry's post's, I understand that sometimes when you take a drug and stop, the second time around it may not work. Do any of you still binge with the topamax? She says it's working, but I do know what she is binging sometimes. We are also really considering changing Pdoc, because he's not helping her at all. We just left the office today, and I don't think anything has changed with her way of thinking about the binging in two years. He's a great guy, but I'm afraid he's not the one. I do know she came home and at half a bag of cookies.....so that didn't help today, huh? Anxiety really brings in on, I did learn that one. FINALLY. I think sometimes I'm brain dead. What's your take on all of this? -L
at the risk of raining on the parade, I don't think anything works ALL the time...
I still have times of eating as if I were one of those starving children on the tv PSAs that sends most of the money to admin costs, the money that doesn't go to pay celebrities' expenses that is...
other days I am simply not able to find a hungry place in my body and Stephen is pushing me to eat... the restaurant we go to, the one with the owner who pushes me to eat... we go in for coffee and talk politics and sports and whatever else comes up and I even tried shooting pool... and that is something I knew I would not be good at but I tried it anyway after constant urging by Stephen (my shrink was amazed and so happy when I told him... been doing it for a year and getting quite good it at it actually, will have to call and tell him lol)
but we will be sitting there with coffee and arguing about hockey lockouts or the Grey Cup or whatever and the owner will come over and ask if I would like a snack and suggest something he thinks I should have...
then it turns out he has prepared it for me
it is often the only meal I eat that day.
He and Stephen are friends and he knows the problem and has decided to wage war on my non-eating...
so he cooks high-protein stuff, lots of chicken and salads and the like and I cannot hurt his feelings...other days, forget it. I don't eat a thing....
then there are the days when I hide in the closet or a darkened room and eat every thing in sight including the walls and floor...
they are not as often as they once were thank heaven but they still happen...
but chocolate does not happen now... whereas once I could eat a whole box of chocolates quite happily and look for more...
so it is working
but there are moments when life is bigger and stronger and harder than we are and than topomax is...
and remember M has been on it a short time -- I have been on it since Jan 2003 and still have moments when food sings a siren song I never realised it sang...
as for welbutrin... there are benefits I guess, but ever since I discovered it can cause seizures in people who do not have them and exacerbate the problem in those who already have them it has not been on my list of respected meds...
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 10:09:01
In reply to Re: no adverse effects, posted by stresser on November 19, 2004, at 20:25:55
Okay...help neded..
I have a couple of private posts to send...
and cannot find or remember the name of the place where one finds the private mail thing...
was annoyed because the other mailer would not let me access the mailer that lets me use my new mail address so deleted it...
of course it had the info I needed...
I mentioned on the social thing that I cannot find right now either that I am in the midst of an aura...
brain not functioning well and the mailer is not mailing either...
HELP...
cannot call tech help because I know I will neither be able to understand nor follow their directions...
so thoutht I could send these posts to their recipients from this board this way...does that make sense?
assuming I can find the private sending place...
kat
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 20, 2004, at 17:49:57
In reply to mail stuff, posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 10:09:01
> I have a couple of private posts to send...
> and cannot find or remember the name of the place where one finds the private mail thing...See:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#babblemail
Bob
Posted by headachequeen on November 21, 2004, at 19:19:54
In reply to Re: no adverse effects » stresser, posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 9:43:14
> > Here you are!! This is like "Hide and Seek"!!!!! <g>You are right about yoga, the only side-effects can be some muscle soreness. In it is cheap, all you need is a mat, or a towel. Do any of you take welbutrin? Have I asked that already?
and did I answer that already???
if not remind me that it has been on my mind....as for Topomax working regarding weight, remember first that I have been taking it for almost two years and the weight thing is simply a side effect...
it is primarily meant to deal with seizures and it has helped as I find it moderates the effects of the tegretol (hanging garlic around my neck and reaching for silver bullets as I write) and it also moderates the number of seizures I have (as a rule, that is)
the second reason I was put on topomax was to curtail migraines and it has done that marvellously... still not a migraine since the time I began taking it...
marvellous stuff indeed...
drinking lots of water and being careful and there are no ugly side effects...
but the weight side effect seems to have worked...Friday evening we went out for dinner.. broiled chicken and a caesar salad without the dressing for me, just a bit of lemon juice because I no longer like the dressing (I know, so why order a caesar salad then? because I like ordinary salads and their dressings even less --- have become very picky about food of late... now THAT is a change)
as we were sitting there after dinner having coffee and liqueurs, well everyone else was, I was having coffee and more water... they run a hose to the table for me...
a gentleman approached the table, a friend of one of the people at our table. He was duly introduced to us and, with my scrambled memory cells, I could not remember his name and would not recognise him if I fell over him in a bowl of soup, but he sat down with us and ordered coffee and a glass of wine...
during the conversation he informed my husband that he was a very lucky man as I had to be one of the most beautiful and sexy women he had ever met... of course I gave him a quarter as soon as I heard... it seemed only fair to pay him for such a statement
now I am wondering where to send the topomax developers a letter of thanks...
no migraines, better control of seizures and now this...
what more can I ask for????I do not dance... I am the clumsiest person on two feet... used to be just lacking in co-ordination but of late it has gone right to clumsy and my grandparents' religion frowned on dancing so it was never really part of my life and what you don't have you don't miss..
this chap asked me to dance at one point...
I thanked him and explained that I don't dance...
and Stephen explained that I had been ill and that dancing was really beyond me right now...
his reply was that I just had never had the right partner....
so while I do not do things I cannot do well, I decided it was time to brave the unknown.. he had been warned; up we got and away we went and I think it must have been the topomax or the clobazam or the accupuncture because under his tutelage and in spite of the orphan annie boots I love to wear (Stephen hates them <G>) I was dancing like a person who knew what she was doing...
he really knew what he was doing... from a generation that danced when dancing was dancing not today's stuff... they look like they are all in stages of tonic clonic seizures actually :) and I thought I would never make even a small joke about that !!!...
It was incredible...
So, topomax does work....
now if only it would enable me to play the piano...
my life's dreams would be fulfilled...
powerful stuff... it can do almost anything....
but they tell me it doesn't do windows...so, L, ma chere amie, give it time with M...
she is going to get there... she is going to have falling back times and she is going to go ahead and she is going to have plateaux and she is going to accept herself one day....
if I can be described at MY age as beautiful and can find myself on the dance floor not making a total fool of myself, she can do it...
and you will survive her getting there...
just hang in a little longerkat who would never have said this anywhere... certainly not to that excuse for a human who called himself a psychiatrist at the hospital <G>
Posted by rainy on November 27, 2004, at 18:32:27
In reply to Does Topomax help with weight??? » headachequeen, posted by headachequeen on November 21, 2004, at 19:19:54
This sounds like whining and complaing right after Thanksgiving probably because it is. I'm on 300 mgs of Topamax, 100 t.i.d without missing a beat. Also 100 mgs trazodone at bedtime and theoretically 400 wellbutrin SR but I keep messing up on that last dose. I'm hesitant to take it just before bed because I get jittery as hell about a half hour after taking the little dear. Here's the complaint.
For the last three or four days I've been ravenously hungry upon waking and throughout the day. When I eat, food has no taste and I'm not over eating, but I'm seriously hungry between meals. Also more thirsty than usual, although today my thirst seems back to normal. I usually drink at least 8 10 oz glasses of water a day.
I'm also shakey around 3 or 4 PM and feel as though I'm "flying to pieces." Any thoughts? Nothing much has changed in my life except for going off provigil 10 days ago. And beginning acupuncture on Wednesday. One session so far, second tomorrow. Is this Topamax poop out?
rainy
Posted by kotsunega on November 27, 2004, at 20:17:42
In reply to change of subject, posted by rainy on November 27, 2004, at 18:32:27
What's your dx? Any chance your symptoms are breaking through the meds?
Posted by stresser on November 27, 2004, at 20:20:45
In reply to change of subject, posted by rainy on November 27, 2004, at 18:32:27
Do any of you find it easy to eat right through the topamax appetite depressent? My daughter is still not having any luck with the topamax at all. We are dropping her back in dosage as well, because she is have a small problem with her memory......not good. What to do now? I actually don't think there is anything out there for binge eating.....at all. Therapy is starting to look like it's a farce, just like the topamax....sorry to be so negative, it's just that this has been a negative experience for us up to this point. Any suggestions? -L
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 27, 2004, at 20:54:24
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by stresser on November 27, 2004, at 20:20:45
the memory thing is just a side effect. It will just pass with time. If you drop back it won't likely help. It will just be harder to make the meds work. If you had stuck it out with the higher dose it would have eventually went away. I go through the same thing every time I go up on mine. You get the "stupids". I would say if you don't feel like this psych doc is helping her, go find another one. After 2 years and you feel like you are spinning your wheels and getting nowhere, being nice just isn't enough. They have to be actually helping! And she has to want to change. And since you can't get in her head and see what is actually going on, that makes it all the more hard. :( Teenagers! Glad I have a few more years to go! Hang in there hon!
Posted by headachequeen on November 27, 2004, at 23:03:06
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by stresser on November 27, 2004, at 20:20:45
> Do any of you find it easy to eat right through the topamax appetite depressent? My daughter is still not having any luck with the topamax at all. We are dropping her back in dosage as well, because she is have a small problem with her memory......not good. What to do now? I actually don't think there is anything out there for binge eating.....at all. Therapy is starting to look like it's a farce, just like the topamax....sorry to be so negative, it's just that this has been a negative experience for us up to this point. Any suggestions? -L
Don't drop back on the dose
the memory drop will stop in a few days... or sooner even... it happens with an increase and then things return to normal...
it is part of the whole routine with the increments... a reason to do the increments slowly....
and it is so hard to know what is happening inside her head...
heaven knows I wish I knew what was happening in my own...rainy, check out the interaction of these meds with each other...
trying to remember trazodone and its effects...if the food doesn't really have appeal you are not eating from hunger but from emotional reaction...
shall post properly tomorrow...
getting my head back on and have some research info on that topic but it is downstairs.. the emotional hunger not turning heads around properly :(
kat
Posted by rainy on November 28, 2004, at 7:44:21
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by kotsunega on November 27, 2004, at 20:17:42
Kotsunega, my dx is bipolar II. I thought about medication interaction but I've been on all of these meds for a longish time. I began to mention that I also thought of adult onset diabetes since many psycotropic medications can screw with our blood sugar levels, but got a message to stop writing as soon as I mentioned my upcoming loss of insurance on 12/31.
I'm more inclined to suspect acupuncture as the culprit--that or not enough Topamax and/or Trazodone since neither seem to be doing their job. Maybe the Topamax does keep me from falling deeper into the pit.
You may be right, Kat about emotional hunger, I've been missing our family terribly, but even cayenne pepper and hot, hot Dijon mustard taste like nothing. Coffe has no flavor. This is
acute.
The flying to pieces, shakey bit is the most unpleasant.
Thanks for your comments.
Kat, I'll look up stuff myself today, please don't exert yourself.
rainy
Posted by iris2 on November 28, 2004, at 9:17:14
In reply to change of subject, posted by rainy on November 27, 2004, at 18:32:27
I would suspect that going off the provigil is having the effect of increasing your hunger. Since it is such a strong stimulant perhaps even if it did not decrease your hunger when you were on it it is having the effect of increasing it when you go off of it. I would think this is a very transient affect and will go away soon. I had that problem with Topamax but the drug is so different I do not think you will have such a big problem as I did. I wonder if the reason you are not tasting the food so much has more to do with the other medications you are taking and you are just noticing it more because you are hungrier and thinking more about the food?
Just a thought or two.
Irene
Posted by iris2 on November 28, 2004, at 9:27:11
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by stresser on November 27, 2004, at 20:20:45
Topamax does not always suppress appetite so she might not be eating through anything at all. From what you have said in thte past it would appear at least at times that the drug is helping her mood and perhaps her binge eating. Drugs most of the time are not the entire answer. Sometimes it takes going through several different therapists to find the one that will be helpful to someone. I do not meen to say that you or her need to be totally impatient and not give a therapist a good trial but I think it can be apparent that a therapist is not a good fit for someone withing several visits. That does not meen that a therapist who you do not agree with or have differences of oppinion is the wrong one but personalities do come into play here as does each therapists ability to deal with certain illnesses better or not. I personally have gone through several different therapists several times to find one who I could communicate effectively with and one who seemed competent and helpful to me. That does not meen that a particular therapist might not be a good one but it might not be the right fit for her.
Remember that a teen is fickle and you need to evaluate her progress on a longer time scale and not these ups and downs she is having daily Perhaps if you keep a log yourself of her habits and moods you will be able to ascertain if the medication is doing what it should in a time interval of several weeks instead of taking one day at a time.
irene
Posted by rainy on November 28, 2004, at 9:38:35
In reply to Re: change of subject » stresser, posted by iris2 on November 28, 2004, at 9:27:11
Of course you don't have to answer, but I'm interested. Are you taking Topamax, and if so, what been your experience with this tricky drug?
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on November 28, 2004, at 17:49:29
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by rainy on November 28, 2004, at 7:44:21
>
> I'm more inclined to suspect acupuncture as the culprit--that or not enough Topamax and/or Trazodone since neither seem to be doing their job. Maybe the Topamax does keep me from falling deeper into the pit.
> You may be right, Kat about emotional hunger, I've been missing our family terribly, but even cayenne pepper and hot, hot Dijon mustard taste like nothing. Coffe has no flavor. This is
> acute.
>Rainy, what dosage of topomax are you at now?
as for the emotional thing...
for lack of a better adjective, I use emotional, dietitians are now getting into the discussion, telling us that people are turning to food to get them through bad times and emotionally stressful times...it is a case of eating not from physical hunger but from emotional hunger, because you are stressed, anxious, angry, upset, even because you are happy or in a celebratory mood...
of course the eating disorders are at the extreme of this, where the normal eating routines are so disrupted that a person binges or starves and feels completely helpless to control his or her own dietary patterns.
Emotional eating is less debilitating than these extremes (the disorders) and more widespread. In fact it is believed that everyone succumbs to some extent, however food they say won't solve things in the long term (no kidding, sez I)The food eaten in these instances is numbing, the person doesn't even taste it. Then the person feels worse, eats more and the problem spirals.
According to the dietitians and nutrition specialists involved in this latest study, an American one, Americans - I think they could say North Americans, though - ecpect to always feel happy, however irrational that may be, so when there is something wrong, they expect the quick fix, and food is everywhere. Reaching for food can be an attempt to recreate happier times in childhood, or other moments when the person was comfortable and content, often or most usually times when food was involved...
think of the happy times in our lives, they most often involve food, preparing food, or eating...
special meals, special foods, and so on.One of the suggestions that accompanied one of the interviews included alternatives for the person who turns to food...
instead of turning blindly to food have a glass of water; have a cup of tea or coffee; go for a walk, pet the dog; call a friend; do something you enjoy doing; go to another area of the office or house and do something that will occupy your thoughts and put the idea of eating aside.Physical activity helps people clear their minds and cope with stress stress, and excerise increases blood sugar making one less hungry physically.
another idea was that before eating anything, decide what it is you want to eat, not just the actual food, but the flavour, texture...
simply sticking food in one's mouth is not really satisfying, but if one takes the time to decide if one wants spicy or sweet, salty or chocolatey, soft or crunchy, chicken or peanut butter, and so on, weighing all the options, then the food when it is eaten is more satisfying leading to less binge eating and less constant eating...
also slow and careful preparation is supposed to help with lessening eating...
fast food and packaged foods tend to increase the frequent eating...Dividing a box or large bag of snack foods into one portion servings and packaging them and storing them that way helps as well...
if the box of crackers or cookies or whatever is divided into one-portion servings then one is less inclined to eat the whole thing...and parents who use food as rewards for behaviour set the pattern for food abuse as their children grow up...
Another suggestion is that instead of eating when one does not know why one is driven to the cupboard or refrigerator, sit down and write about the feelings that are at work at that time...
it may help you come to terms with your self and to better understand yourself....
that is it from the notes so far...eventually this may all come together into something that comes together...
or it may end up being trashed as something that I no longer wish to follow up
but it has been an interesting bit of work thus far and if it helps someone here then it has been worth the effort...the one thing that has been repeated and repeated is that we expect things to be fixed instantly...
our emotional selves were not damaged overnight and will not be fixed overnight....binge eating, anorexia, bulemia, and the other eating disorders including this milder but more pervasive one are symptoms of a greater problem and that problem needs to be addressed before the symptoms can disappear...
this takes time...I spent the afternoon interviewing a marvellous psycholgist... she works with women with various eating disorders and I will be sorting my notes...
and auditing the tapes for the next few days or longer... in between trying to decorate four trees, decorate the house, rearrange the living room, and see the neurologist and go for eegs and all that garbage...
and there is still work to be done on two almost overdue pieces of work that have to be in by the 12th of the month...
what idiot agreed to a December deadline...
and that was before I fried brain cells with high fever and all the rest of it...
at least now I would have an excuse for such a lamebrained thought...
however, as I go through all this material I shall sift out that which is useful for L and for you Rainy and for anyone else here...
eventually I hope to put it and the other interview material into something that is helpful and read-worthy and pitch it to someone who wants to publish it...but never again a December deadline LOL
kat
Posted by rainy on November 28, 2004, at 18:07:03
In reply to Re: change of subject » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 28, 2004, at 17:49:29
300 mgs
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