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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by bbly78 on November 11, 2004, at 10:55:25
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by Americk on September 11, 2004, at 21:07:04
I am coming off the Effexor also.. But I was on a 300 dose.. I slowly came down to 225, then 150.. But then my doctor stopped that after 3 days and put me on 75 for 4 days and 37.5 for 4 days.. I feel like crap.. I am now off completely, until I start my new medicine, which could be a week.. For the past two days I have been vomiting, shaky, freezing, numbness in my arms.. If anyone can suggest something, I would greatly appreciate it.. Today I officially come off the effexor.. If the last two days are anything close to whats to come, someone just shoot me now..
Posted by Jo52 on November 11, 2004, at 13:07:42
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by bbly78 on November 11, 2004, at 10:55:25
Call Your Doctor Immediately! I was able to get a 20 mg Prozac (1) for the first week and a 10mg Prozac (1) to take the second week. The symptoms were immediately relieved (within 12 hours) after taking the first Prozac. I also started Wellbutrin at the same time, but it was the Prozac that did the trick. I only took the two - one each week and I was fine. Minor symptoms the third week but nothing that I couldn't ignore. Good Luck! It stinks, but this will definately help.
Posted by MKB on November 11, 2004, at 16:05:39
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by bbly78 on November 11, 2004, at 10:55:25
I managed to finally get off without the Prozac, but I have heard that it helps. Benadryl helped me too.
Posted by Jiggitykid on November 12, 2004, at 7:58:07
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by bbly78 on November 11, 2004, at 10:55:25
It is a horrible tragedy that you and anyone else are having to go through this. I was reading a "health" magazine the other day, and they recommended effexor for menopausal hot flashes!!! This drug is going to kill someone, if it hasn't already. It has destroyed lives already.
Pain medication helps. Some have recommended benedryl, too, which does help. Motion sickness pills can help some, but not tremendously. The best advice I've got for you is to 1) know that you are experiencing a "normal" withdrawal, 2) make sure those around you know what is going on and to expect you to be different for a while while your body and brain adjust to having this evil drug out of your system, and 3) do what you have to do to stay sane :-)! Take care of yourself, don't make major decisions right now, avoid driving at night, and do all you can to minimize the demands on your life until this is over. My "cold-turkey" took two weeks before I felt somewhat better, and a month until I felt normal. You CAN do this. It IS possible. Just keep coming back here to update and know that we all know what you are going through. You are in my prayers!
> I am coming off the Effexor also.. But I was on a 300 dose.. I slowly came down to 225, then 150.. But then my doctor stopped that after 3 days and put me on 75 for 4 days and 37.5 for 4 days.. I feel like crap.. I am now off completely, until I start my new medicine, which could be a week.. For the past two days I have been vomiting, shaky, freezing, numbness in my arms.. If anyone can suggest something, I would greatly appreciate it.. Today I officially come off the effexor.. If the last two days are anything close to whats to come, someone just shoot me now..
Posted by bbly78 on November 12, 2004, at 11:23:58
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » bbly78, posted by Jiggitykid on November 12, 2004, at 7:58:07
Thank you guys so much, I spoke to my doctor after i posted this and he informed that it isnt going to get much better.. that made me feel great. At least though, for the last 24 hours i have managed to keep some soup and crackers in my stomach.. I do start Prozac sometime next week.. The Dr is just waiting on some test results he sent in. As for the Wellbutrin, ugh! I think i would rather come off effexor anyday.. Unfortunately that makes me sick as a dog.. I am hoping and praying that the Prozac will do the trick and i wont have to change meds again.. Thank you again for your input, I will keep you guys updated and let you know how i am doing.
Posted by deon on November 16, 2004, at 10:10:40
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by Americk on September 11, 2004, at 21:07:04
OK...I wish my Doctor would of told me about this evil drug!!! Since day one of taking this pill, haven't been same. My wife has said that I am not the same man i used to be...in other words...this drug hasn't helped me at all. I've been on it for 1 month at 70 mg and it almost destroyed my relationship. I stopped taking it since yesterday. She also prescribed me Lorazepam .5 mg and i found out that taking this stuff with Effexor can cause some major side effects. I"M FREEAKING OUT HERE!!!!!
The brain shakes are awful and I feel so lost. Reading your posting has made me emotional. I can't stop crying because I'm afraid of what's ahead.
I don't trust my Doctor anymore. I'm so angry!!!
Posted by MKB on November 16, 2004, at 12:10:12
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » Americk, posted by deon on November 16, 2004, at 10:10:40
Tell your wife to be patient for a couple of weeks. Get off it and stay off it. You will not be yourself. I know how terrible it is. Coming off it made me more depressed than I was before. Good luck. You CAN make it, just don't do anything drastic.
Posted by Jiggitykid on November 16, 2004, at 14:20:53
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » Americk, posted by deon on November 16, 2004, at 10:10:40
Your doc either didn't know or didn't believe it. Regardless, I'm SO SORRY for the situation you are in! Trust me - I've been there. This horrible drug nearly destroyed my marriage. One year ago, we were talking divorce, and I had no idea why he was so unhappy with me. After I stopped taking the drug, "I" came back, and he loves me the way he used to. I'll never be the person I was 15 years ago when we married - neither will he, of course - but I'm a functioning, loving person again. When I was taking the effexor, I kept telling the doc and the counselor I was seeing that I was feeling worse, so they advised upping the dose. I got worse - the doctor wondered if I was really, truly mentally ill. Once I stopped taking the drug, I became me again.
I know reading the withdrawal symptoms is scary, but you've got to get off of this drug before it destroys your life and your family. There are ways to cope that make it easier that people have been kind enough to share here. The big thing is that you've got to either educate your doctor, or find a doctor who is already up to speed on this, and figure out the best plan for you, whether it be tapering off or quitting cold turkey (which is what I did, because I had no help at all. I thought I was losing my mind until I found this board. Thank you, Dr. Bob!). Some recommend Prozac during withdrawal. Benedryl helps some. Some prescription pain killers and Ibuprofen help, but you need to be careful when dealing with the pain meds, of course.
Perhaps most importantly of all, you need to have your spouse read this site and understand that what you are going through is NOT YOUR FAULT, and that it is the medication's doing. She needs to be educated about what to expect while you are quitting the medicine. She needs to understand that you AREN'T the person you were, but that you will be once you get this evil drug out of your system.
Check in, and let us know how you are doing. We all support you!! Please, take care of your family. Let them love you.
> OK...I wish my Doctor would of told me about this evil drug!!! Since day one of taking this pill, haven't been same. My wife has said that I am not the same man i used to be...in other words...this drug hasn't helped me at all. I've been on it for 1 month at 70 mg and it almost destroyed my relationship. I stopped taking it since yesterday. She also prescribed me Lorazepam .5 mg and i found out that taking this stuff with Effexor can cause some major side effects. I"M FREEAKING OUT HERE!!!!!
> The brain shakes are awful and I feel so lost. Reading your posting has made me emotional. I can't stop crying because I'm afraid of what's ahead.
> I don't trust my Doctor anymore. I'm so angry!!!
Posted by deon on November 16, 2004, at 17:23:55
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » deon, posted by Jiggitykid on November 16, 2004, at 14:20:53
Thank you...all of you's on this post and most of all....thank you Dr Bob.
Day 2 is almost done and I feel alittle better knowing I'm not alone in this fight of this drug!
I've read the other posts on the possitive effects of Effexor on other ppl but I can GUARONTEE that if and when they need to get off this poison...they'll be posting here.
As for me, my stomach feels like a twisted pretzel but I'm managing to keep food down. I have a job to do as a computer field technician which requires me to drive all over this city and to other towns. Thank god I have an understanding boss in Toronto to give me a few days off with pay to help me get over this nightmare. When I sent him just one of these posts, he couldn't believe what he was reading.
I also let my wife read these posts...she started to cry and felt so guilty. We both fell to the ground embracing eachother with tears knowing that all this can be put into the past and go on with ours lives as loving couples. She's going to help me in anyway she can till this is all over with.I will keep you all posted on my progress.
Thank you all again with all my heart and soul.
Your doc either didn't know or didn't believe it. Regardless, I'm SO SORRY for the situation you are in! Trust me - I've been there. This horrible drug nearly destroyed my marriage. One year ago, we were talking divorce, and I had no idea why he was so unhappy with me. After I stopped taking the drug, "I" came back, and he loves me the way he used to. I'll never be the person I was 15 years ago when we married - neither will he, of course - but I'm a functioning, loving person again. When I was taking the effexor, I kept telling the doc and the counselor I was seeing that I was feeling worse, so they advised upping the dose. I got worse - the doctor wondered if I was really, truly mentally ill. Once I stopped taking the drug, I became me again.
>
> I know reading the withdrawal symptoms is scary, but you've got to get off of this drug before it destroys your life and your family. There are ways to cope that make it easier that people have been kind enough to share here. The big thing is that you've got to either educate your doctor, or find a doctor who is already up to speed on this, and figure out the best plan for you, whether it be tapering off or quitting cold turkey (which is what I did, because I had no help at all. I thought I was losing my mind until I found this board. Thank you, Dr. Bob!). Some recommend Prozac during withdrawal. Benedryl helps some. Some prescription pain killers and Ibuprofen help, but you need to be careful when dealing with the pain meds, of course.
>
> Perhaps most importantly of all, you need to have your spouse read this site and understand that what you are going through is NOT YOUR FAULT, and that it is the medication's doing. She needs to be educated about what to expect while you are quitting the medicine. She needs to understand that you AREN'T the person you were, but that you will be once you get this evil drug out of your system.
>
> Check in, and let us know how you are doing. We all support you!! Please, take care of your family. Let them love you.
>
> > OK...I wish my Doctor would of told me about this evil drug!!! Since day one of taking this pill, haven't been same. My wife has said that I am not the same man i used to be...in other words...this drug hasn't helped me at all. I've been on it for 1 month at 70 mg and it almost destroyed my relationship. I stopped taking it since yesterday. She also prescribed me Lorazepam .5 mg and i found out that taking this stuff with Effexor can cause some major side effects. I"M FREEAKING OUT HERE!!!!!
> > The brain shakes are awful and I feel so lost. Reading your posting has made me emotional. I can't stop crying because I'm afraid of what's ahead.
> > I don't trust my Doctor anymore. I'm so angry!!!
>
>
Posted by MKB on November 16, 2004, at 20:18:19
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by deon on November 16, 2004, at 17:23:55
Keep hanging on and don't be surprised if tomorrow is worse than today. How many more people are going to have to suffer before the situation changes?
Posted by DustBuster on November 17, 2004, at 1:36:22
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » deon, posted by MKB on November 16, 2004, at 20:18:19
Well, I quit taking Effexor XR this past weekend. Because of all the bad comments and articles I have read (here and many other places), I finally changed my mind, and decided that I don't really trust my pdoc (and won't be seeing him anymore), and it's just not worth the risk to keep taking this med. I am sticking with my T, though.
Apparently I am just lucky, or 3 weeks wasn't long enough to develop any real dependance, since I haven't had any serious withdrawl symptoms, so far. I did have a single horrible 2 hour sleepless "nap" Monday afternoon, during which I had dozens of odd dreams, and seemed to wake every 5-10 minutes, but that might not have anything to do with Effexor, since I haven't slept more than 3-4 hours a night for the past week.
I'm convinced most of the drug has cleared out of my system, since this afternoon, I started feeling really sad, worthless, depressed and angry again. Haven't felt like that since I started the meds. My ears are still ringing, though, so maybe this isn't quite over yet.
One other side effect of Effexor XR I didn't even realize until I quit, was that it apparently dried up my sinuses. I admit, it was nice being able to breath through my nose all day and night long, and not waking up with a sore throat and coughing up phlem.
Patrick
Posted by MKB on November 17, 2004, at 2:13:42
In reply to I quit taking Effexor too!, posted by DustBuster on November 17, 2004, at 1:36:22
I think the terrible, sad, worthless feeling is the effect of the Effexor withdrawal. Is it not worse than you felt before you started? Yes, Effexor does dry out your skin, your eyes, every part of you.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 17, 2004, at 5:11:00
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by deon on November 16, 2004, at 17:23:55
Posted by bbly78 on November 17, 2004, at 8:14:17
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » deon, posted by MKB on November 16, 2004, at 12:10:12
Well it has been 3 solid days without the effexor, I feel like crap.. My hands go numb, I can't bend over without coming up dizzy and wishing I could throw up.. I do however start my new meds today, so hopefully I will start to feel better.. I have always said it was a shame that in order to feel better you need medicine, but in the same instance, it sucks to have to take something else to counteract all the side effects of the one that is supposed to help you.. I mean really, you take something for depression or anxiety and it makes you sick, insomniac, etc.. then you end up taking something for the sick stomach and the lack of sleep.. You guys have helped me understand some of the things that are going on in my body.. I will keep in touch to let you know how the new meds go.. hopefully I wont get sick everytime I turn around.. literally..
Posted by MKB on November 17, 2004, at 11:49:08
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by bbly78 on November 17, 2004, at 8:14:17
So sorry you are suffering. I do hope you find something that works without dreadful side effects. If you suffer from simple depression and general anxiety, you might want to try L-Tryptophan, which is natural, safe, and effective. You can read about it at http://www.healthrecovery.com. Also, to understand more of what others have experienced with Effexor you can read comments of people who have signed a petition at www.petitiononline.com/effexor/. View the signatures.
Posted by deon on November 18, 2004, at 9:11:44
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » Americk, posted by deon on November 16, 2004, at 10:10:40
Day 3 is over with starting day 4...symptoms of the brain jolts are still there and the nausia remains. I'm starting to feel like it's a lossing battle even though it's only been a few days. I'm already fed up of this. Will this ever stop? Has anyone out there got this over with? Is there hope at the end of this long tunnel? I've been sleeping but it's not a stable sleep. I'm so tired right now....so tired. I don't want to go back to sleep during the day because I feel that will only make my insomnia worse. I haven't gone to work all this week because I'm afraid that I might get a severe "JOLT" while I'm driving. What a nightmare this is. You know what I just remembered? When I first went to my Doctor about these slight anxiety attacks and she put me on this Effexor....she told me that this would be a 6 month treatment then she would stop prescribing this medication and take me right of. She was only joking right? Is it possible that a Doctor has little knowlege of the withdrawls that a patient would be going through when taken off this medication? If not...she's about to get an awakening from me.
Anyone out there reading this and is taking Effexor....talk to your Doctor before going off about these awfull side effects.
I'll post again in a couple of days to let you know how I'm doing.
Posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 9:27:12
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by deon on November 18, 2004, at 9:11:44
Being informed is essential. Read as much as you can on these boards as many others have posted about this. I just got off Effexor recently, so I know what you are going through. I would suggest going down to the lowest dose possible, then taking it only every other day. Make sure the people around you know that you will not be yourself for awhile until you get this out of your system. It may take several weeks for you to get back to normal. Let your doctor know about your problems and stand firm. If you were not fully informed, you have a right to complain.
Posted by bbly78 on November 18, 2004, at 9:49:48
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by deon on November 18, 2004, at 9:11:44
Well, I saw my doctor yesterday, and he started me on 25mg of Prozac.. Let me tell you, I feel so much better.. I am still feeling a little numb in the hands once in a while, but nothing like it was.. Just one dose of a new med, something to take over the feelings of coming off the effexor, and I feel somewhat like a human.. I am still real sensitive to some smells.. But I cant wait for the whole negative overall feeling to be done.. I will keep in touch
Posted by jbc on November 18, 2004, at 10:19:06
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by deon on November 18, 2004, at 9:11:44
Hang on deon! You will get through this! I have been off almost a year now. About 6 months ago I went thru a couple days of similar type symptoms ("jolts", feeling like my insides were quivering, etc.), but nothing since.
You WILL get through this & come out stronger on the other side! Just hang in there & know that all of out here know what you are going through. We are walking along side you and holding you up when you need us! I am praying for you!
Posted by Jiggitykid on November 18, 2004, at 11:49:48
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by deon on November 18, 2004, at 9:11:44
It DOES stop. It just takes time. For me, the worst of the symptoms were over after the first 7 days or so, then, after another week, I began to feel more normal. It took a month before I felt really more normal. If this makes you feel any better, for me and for some posting here, after the two-weeks (ish), senses become heightened, almost as if all of your senses are "reawakening." Things are brighter, louder, smell better, and let's just say that my husband was thrilled with another heightened sense/sensation during this time! It settles back out. You WILL get better. Don't give up.
Your doctor is either uneducated about this medication (which most still are) or is one of those who considers this a "noisy minority reaction." You need to educate her, fast.
Merck is in lots of hot water right now because of non-disclosure of info about Vioxx. Why in the world would anyone doubt that they know about the withdrawal effects (and the effects while on the drug) of Effexor? I personally cannot wait to join a class-action against them. This drug nearly ruined my life and my marriage and the withdrawal was something no one should have to go though without making an informed choice.
Please, hang in there. Are you taking anything to help?
> Day 3 is over with starting day 4...symptoms of the brain jolts are still there and the nausia remains. I'm starting to feel like it's a lossing battle even though it's only been a few days. I'm already fed up of this. Will this ever stop? Has anyone out there got this over with? Is there hope at the end of this long tunnel? I've been sleeping but it's not a stable sleep. I'm so tired right now....so tired. I don't want to go back to sleep during the day because I feel that will only make my insomnia worse. I haven't gone to work all this week because I'm afraid that I might get a severe "JOLT" while I'm driving. What a nightmare this is. You know what I just remembered? When I first went to my Doctor about these slight anxiety attacks and she put me on this Effexor....she told me that this would be a 6 month treatment then she would stop prescribing this medication and take me right of. She was only joking right? Is it possible that a Doctor has little knowlege of the withdrawls that a patient would be going through when taken off this medication? If not...she's about to get an awakening from me.
> Anyone out there reading this and is taking Effexor....talk to your Doctor before going off about these awfull side effects.
> I'll post again in a couple of days to let you know how I'm doing.
>
>
>
Posted by Jiggitykid on November 18, 2004, at 11:51:34
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » deon, posted by MKB on November 18, 2004, at 9:27:12
>>If you were not fully informed, you have a right to complain.<<
Which NO ONE has been. That's the whole problem. Merck needs to be held accountable for this. If the FDA sat on information, like allegations are being made that they had information about Vioxx and didn't reveal it, then they need to be held accountable, as well. I'd say it's time to clean house in both organizations.
Posted by Jiggitykid on November 18, 2004, at 11:54:40
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » deon, posted by jbc on November 18, 2004, at 10:19:06
>>>About 6 months ago I went thru a couple days of similar type symptoms ("jolts", feeling like my insides were quivering, etc.), but nothing since.<<<
You know, sometimes I wonder if we've been permanently damaged by the effexor. I've been "clean" for about a year, too. I stopped taking it just before Thanksgiving last year ('03). About 6 months ago, just like you, I woke in the middle of the night with the brain zaps. It only lasted a little while, but it frightened me that it might not be over. Thank goodness, it's not happened again.
Effexor is a horrible, horrible drug. I agree with what someone posted recently - there are those here who are saying that it is helping. God help you when you have to quit taking it.
Posted by jbc on November 18, 2004, at 12:48:49
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » jbc, posted by Jiggitykid on November 18, 2004, at 11:54:40
AMEN!
> >>>About 6 months ago I went thru a couple days of similar type symptoms ("jolts", feeling like my insides were quivering, etc.), but nothing since.<<<
>
> You know, sometimes I wonder if we've been permanently damaged by the effexor. I've been "clean" for about a year, too. I stopped taking it just before Thanksgiving last year ('03). About 6 months ago, just like you, I woke in the middle of the night with the brain zaps. It only lasted a little while, but it frightened me that it might not be over. Thank goodness, it's not happened again.
>
> Effexor is a horrible, horrible drug. I agree with what someone posted recently - there are those here who are saying that it is helping. God help you when you have to quit taking it.
Posted by KimberlyDi on November 18, 2004, at 14:50:07
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by deon on November 18, 2004, at 9:11:44
Haven't been to Psycho-Bab in a long time, probably because I'm no longer suffering from the side effects of taking Effexor, nor the withdrawal from quitting Effexor. There is life after Effexor, entirely off of Effexor, and freedom from all the symptoms that you might originally fear are a permanent side-effect from taking Effexor. It all goes away. The occasional hand twinges were the last to go. If you are on Day 4, you've got a rough road to travel still. I didn't go cold turkey, not after the first attempt failed miserably. I tapered down with a tightly controlled schedule. Misery became a constant companion but each week had me functioning with less and less Effexor. I lasted, I think, because I was *controlling* the schedule and I saw the signs of success.
You'll make it. God Bless!
KDi in Texas
> Day 3 is over with starting day 4...symptoms of the brain jolts are still there and the nausia remains. I'm starting to feel like it's a lossing battle even though it's only been a few days. I'm already fed up of this. Will this ever stop? Has anyone out there got this over with? Is there hope at the end of this long tunnel? I've been sleeping but it's not a stable sleep. I'm so tired right now....so tired. I don't want to go back to sleep during the day because I feel that will only make my insomnia worse. I haven't gone to work all this week because I'm afraid that I might get a severe "JOLT" while I'm driving. What a nightmare this is. You know what I just remembered? When I first went to my Doctor about these slight anxiety attacks and she put me on this Effexor....she told me that this would be a 6 month treatment then she would stop prescribing this medication and take me right of. She was only joking right? Is it possible that a Doctor has little knowlege of the withdrawls that a patient would be going through when taken off this medication? If not...she's about to get an awakening from me.
> Anyone out there reading this and is taking Effexor....talk to your Doctor before going off about these awfull side effects.
> I'll post again in a couple of days to let you know how I'm doing.
>
>
>
Posted by DustBuster on November 18, 2004, at 21:01:43
In reply to Re: I quit taking Effexor too! » DustBuster, posted by MKB on November 17, 2004, at 2:13:42
> I think the terrible, sad, worthless feeling is the effect of the Effexor withdrawal. Is it not worse than you felt before you started?
I don't know. Maybe. Probably, a little worse. I completely forgot how bad it feels to be this depressed.
I joined a depression support group at meetup.com, and went to the monthly meeting last night. Nobody else showed up, so I went to my favorite bar and got drunk instead. This city sucks.
I yelled at my two sweet kitty cats last night, for no reason other than I was upset (and drunk) and angry and wanted to make sure they stayed away from me. This morning, I just laid in the recliner, staring at the ceiling for a couple hours, thinking about nothing. One of the cats jumped onto my chest, trying to get some attention, but I just couldn't be bothered to move a muscle to pet her. I can't believe that was just this morning. Seems like days ago, already.
Weighed myself, and was shocked to see I've gained back 5 lbs since last weekend (I'm horribly obese, but had been losing 1-2 lbs per week over the past four months). Of course it's most likely due to the fact that I haven't exercised once since stopping the effexor. The only time I've even been outside of the house all week was to pick up the mail, and to drive 60 miles round trip to that stupid non-existent "support" group meeting.
I really want to go back on AD meds, I don't want to feel like this anymore. This just really sucks. I'd rather feel nothing, like I did on effexor. But I cancelled my appt with my pdoc, and I know I won't be able to get another one for at least another three weeks. Besides, I don't know if I trust him anyway. Psychiatrists just seem to be pill pushers nowadays. Here's your script, that'll be $150, now go away, but first make another appt in a month so I can get paid then too!
I am just so confused. I probably shouldn't have stopped taking the effexor, and I definately shouldn't have cancelled my pdoc appt. I probably wouldn't have quit if I hadn't joined this damned message board.
I feel like such an frickin idiot, I'm even afraid to call up my sister, who has been such a kind listener lately. I just don't want to bother her anymore with my problems. I don't even want to hit "submit" here, since I'm so obviously just searching for attention from anyone.
Patrick
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