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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 15:54:39
I experience shivers, anxiety, brain zaps, confusion, muscle twiching, flashing vision, mini-convulsions, buzzing brain, tremors, insomnia, apathy, and the list goes on.
I don't care what any of you say about these medications not causing brain dammage, they do.
Very slowly of course, and the effect is outweighed by temporary brimming positivity.
But sooner or later most people I've seen on/off this board humbly admit that they can never regain the *remission* that they once had.
I used to be the foremost supporter of psychiatric drugs, but knowing what I know
now, I could honesty not recommend anyone to
take an antidepressant.They *are* addictive in the worst way. Every time I try to reduce celexa, I get symptoms that are *much*, *much* worse than what I *ever* initally had, and it lasts ******forever******. I am on like month 3 of reducing my celexa from 20-10mg, and I'm *still* getting brain zaps, and insanely overpowering demonic rage, that I have never experienced in my life (even despite concurrent treatment with mood stabalizers!!!!!)
The drug companies don't know that much. We're trusting them too much. If I had a right mind, I'd get out while I still have a chance.
Linkadge
Posted by zeugma on November 15, 2004, at 16:38:29
In reply to I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 15:54:39
> I experience shivers, anxiety, brain zaps, confusion, muscle twiching, flashing vision, mini-convulsions, buzzing brain, tremors, insomnia, apathy, and the list goes on.
SSRI withdrawal syndrome is no joke. I don't know if there are any long term studies on the after-effects of this phenomenon, because virtually all drug studies are funded by pharm companies these days, and since most current AD's are strong SRI's, they would hardly look to find out flaws in their profitable creations. that is a sickening situation and casts doubt on psychiatry as a branch of medicine. But I still pay a psychiatrist a lot of money to treat me. That's because I know my condition warrants it even though the treatments are much less than optimal.
>
> I don't care what any of you say about these medications not causing brain dammage, they do.
> Very slowly of course, and the effect is outweighed by temporary brimming positivity.
> But sooner or later most people I've seen on/off this board humbly admit that they can never regain the *remission* that they once had.
>> I would nver claim a med put me in 'remission.' I thought I was in remission at one time, when I was off meds, but I slowly degenerated to the point where I had to choose another option, i.e. take meds again. A lot of us suffer from chronic unremitting conditions that can only be treated symptomatically, and in treating the symptoms, we are essentially trading old symptoms for new ones, the side effects of these lovely meds.
> I used to be the foremost supporter of psychiatric drugs, but knowing what I know
> now, I could honesty not recommend anyone to
> take an antidepressant.I think it;s a matter of how badly the person is depressed and whether or not he or she needs them in order to function. I would advise anyone not to take AD's if they don't absolutely need them, because of their side effects and lack of specificity to depression. In fact I sometimes think that the term 'antidepressant' is used too freely. It is as much a marketing term as anything at this point. That's not to say I think the concept is invalid, but that I wouldn't see the drugs as benign alleviators of a specific emotional condition. They're far from being that.
>
> They *are* addictive in the worst way. Every time I try to reduce celexa, I get symptoms that are *much*, *much* worse than what I *ever* initally had, and it lasts ******forever******. I am on like month 3 of reducing my celexa from 20-10mg, and I'm *still* getting brain zaps, and insanely overpowering demonic rage, that I have never experienced in my life (even despite concurrent treatment with mood stabalizers!!!!!)
>
You sound like you are extremely sensitive to SSRI withdrawal. Possibly the mood stabilizers are exacerbating this? Are you sure that the the MS you are on is helping, or that you are truly BP?> The drug companies don't know that much. We're trusting them too much. If I had a right mind, I'd get out while I still have a chance.
>
>
I don't trust them at all. Unfortunately I don't know enough about neurochemistry and drug production to make new drugs for myself. But if I was not positive that I needed to be on *some* med for the rest of my life, I would do without them. As things stand, I can't.-z
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>
Posted by MKB on November 15, 2004, at 17:06:35
In reply to I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 15:54:39
I agree with your basic premise. I'm completely disillusioned with the results I have gotten from anti-depressants, etc: Zoloft, Paxil, Serzone, Wellbutrin, Effexor XR, Depakote.
I've got a sample pack of Lamictal here and I don't even know if I want to bother.
Posted by crazychickuk on November 15, 2004, at 18:52:49
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying » linkadge, posted by MKB on November 15, 2004, at 17:06:35
Links i hear ya.... get of the meds darl .. i feel like i am getting better every day after being of them for 3 mnths.. i stil get the occasional brain zap feels like my brain is dying still.. just get of them ... you got my email if u ever wanna chat .. ((hugs))
Posted by mattsy on November 15, 2004, at 19:49:28
In reply to I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 15:54:39
Do not agree, and you are probably scaring alot of people with this post. Different strokes for different folks. Please don't assume everyone responds the way you do.
Posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 20:05:42
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by mattsy on November 15, 2004, at 19:49:28
Thats the thing, I responded perfectly for about 3 years, then slowly I stop responding to everthing.
Linkadge
Posted by mattsy on November 15, 2004, at 21:08:30
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 20:05:42
Keep searching for the right combo for you though. I was put on zoloft 7 years ago when I developed ocd and am still on it. It was the first med I was put on and it's still working for me. Don't get me wrong, I still relapse every now and then, but that's the way it goes. Doesn't mean the meds not working anymore. Anyways... I wish you and everyone peace of mind. None of us deserve the crap that we have all been through.
Posted by jerrympls on November 15, 2004, at 22:45:34
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 20:05:42
> Thats the thing, I responded perfectly for about 3 years, then slowly I stop responding to everthing.
>
> LinkadgeI'm forced to agree with Linkadge. I responded really well 13 years ago for about 4 months then everything went down hill from there. 13 years later, you'd think there'd be something more advanced - but now my doctors are to the point where they're recommending brain surgery as my last best hope.
Jerry
Posted by Iansf on November 16, 2004, at 0:11:00
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying » linkadge, posted by jerrympls on November 15, 2004, at 22:45:34
> > Thats the thing, I responded perfectly for about 3 years, then slowly I stop responding to everthing.
> >
> > Linkadge
>
> I'm forced to agree with Linkadge. I responded really well 13 years ago for about 4 months then everything went down hill from there. 13 years later, you'd think there'd be something more advanced - but now my doctors are to the point where they're recommending brain surgery as my last best hope.
>
> Jerry
>
Still, that's not necessarily everyone's experience. I started taking antidepressants 16 years ago and none of this has happened to me. I have changed meds several times because of side effect profiles, but never because the drug stopped working and never because there was anything to suggest I was being seriously or permanently damaged. On the other hand, I suspect I would have committed or at least attempted suicide had meds not been available. I know quite a few others who have used psych meds for many years whose experiences match mine. And the only person I know with identifiable brain damage - and very serious brain damage - is someone who was not on meds and attempted suicide but survived.I'm not challenging your statements about your own personal experiences, merely refuting the claims that these things inevitably happen to everyone. They definitely do not. I'm very sorry they happened to you and I wish you success in both returning to normal physically and in overcoming the problems that prompted you to take meds to begin with. It's certainly worthwhile to caution people about the possibility of negative outcomes, but it's not wise to make blanket assumptions based on your own experiences.
John
Posted by jerrympls on November 16, 2004, at 0:28:25
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying » jerrympls, posted by Iansf on November 16, 2004, at 0:11:00
> > > Thats the thing, I responded perfectly for about 3 years, then slowly I stop responding to everthing.
> > >
> > > Linkadge
> >
> > I'm forced to agree with Linkadge. I responded really well 13 years ago for about 4 months then everything went down hill from there. 13 years later, you'd think there'd be something more advanced - but now my doctors are to the point where they're recommending brain surgery as my last best hope.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
>
>
> Still, that's not necessarily everyone's experience. I started taking antidepressants 16 years ago and none of this has happened to me. I have changed meds several times because of side effect profiles, but never because the drug stopped working and never because there was anything to suggest I was being seriously or permanently damaged. On the other hand, I suspect I would have committed or at least attempted suicide had meds not been available. I know quite a few others who have used psych meds for many years whose experiences match mine. And the only person I know with identifiable brain damage - and very serious brain damage - is someone who was not on meds and attempted suicide but survived.
>
> I'm not challenging your statements about your own personal experiences, merely refuting the claims that these things inevitably happen to everyone. They definitely do not. I'm very sorry they happened to you and I wish you success in both returning to normal physically and in overcoming the problems that prompted you to take meds to begin with. It's certainly worthwhile to caution people about the possibility of negative outcomes, but it's not wise to make blanket assumptions based on your own experiences.
>
> JohnJohn-
I can't speak for Link - but I'm not making a blanket statement. Each person responds differently. However, there is a certain population of those with severe treatment resistant depression who suffer as Link and I have and we have every right to our opinions be they positive or negative. Of course, we'd all like our experiences and outcomes to be positive, but life is far from fair or perfect. I know you'd understand that and I understand where you are coming from.
I think we're all on the same side here. No need to quarrel. Celebrate that you have been fortunate.
Posted by ed_uk on November 16, 2004, at 6:55:07
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying » Iansf, posted by jerrympls on November 16, 2004, at 0:28:25
Linkadge, I think you live in Canada, is that right?
Here in England we have Citalopram Oral Drops. I'm not sure if you have them in Canada but I'm sure you could get hold of them if you try. Each drop contains 2mg citalopram. The drops are useful for people who want to come off citalopram because they make it possible to reduce the dose gradually ie. in steps of 2mg.All the best...
Ed
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2004, at 8:51:55
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by ed_uk on November 16, 2004, at 6:55:07
Posted by ed_uk on November 16, 2004, at 10:04:30
In reply to I'll see if I can find them, thnx (nm), posted by linkadge on November 16, 2004, at 8:51:55
Link, you can find a picture of them on the website of the Pharmaceutical journal- a English publication. They are called Cipramil Oral Drops.
Posted by mistermindmasta on November 16, 2004, at 11:51:43
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 20:05:42
> Thats the thing, I responded perfectly for about 3 years, then slowly I stop responding to everthing.
>
> LinkadgeI thnk you're well up on your nutrition, as I recall, but any of the common vitamin and mineral deficiencies can render medications ineffective. It seems that adequate folate intake is necessary for SSRI's to work at all in some people. Same for B6, I think. If you aren't taking in the right nutrients, the drugs won't be able to alter neurotransmitters as well as they might with an abundance of raw materials.
Some studies show that the even the RDA of folate might not be enough. Double the RDA might be necessary for some to respond to antidepressants. I'm just coming up with my own thoughts, there, but just be aware of that possibility. Same for vitamin D. Make sure you're up to date on nutrition if you're going to say you don't respond anymore, because maybe you slowly became somewhat deficient in something. Or... maybe if you have an intestinal disorder that inhibits uptake of vitamins or mins, that would be contributing to this whole situation. Who knows. But if you don't already get all your vitamins, do so.
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2004, at 15:24:22
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by mistermindmasta on November 16, 2004, at 11:51:43
Yeah, I started to take the approach this morning.
I did a nutritional analysis, and am starting a better multivitamin. I have been suplementing with omega 3 for years. And god knows I exercise enough (perhaps too much)
Thanks
Linkadge
Posted by Shalom34Israel on November 16, 2004, at 18:46:23
In reply to I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 15:54:39
> I experience shivers, anxiety, brain zaps, confusion, muscle twiching, flashing vision, mini-convulsions, buzzing brain, tremors, insomnia, apathy, and the list goes on.
>
> I don't care what any of you say about these medications not causing brain dammage, they do.
> Very slowly of course, and the effect is outweighed by temporary brimming positivity.
> But sooner or later most people I've seen on/off this board humbly admit that they can never regain the *remission* that they once had.
>
>
> I used to be the foremost supporter of psychiatric drugs, but knowing what I know
> now, I could honesty not recommend anyone to
> take an antidepressant.
>
> They *are* addictive in the worst way. Every time I try to reduce celexa, I get symptoms that are *much*, *much* worse than what I *ever* initally had, and it lasts ******forever******. I am on like month 3 of reducing my celexa from 20-10mg, and I'm *still* getting brain zaps, and insanely overpowering demonic rage, that I have never experienced in my life (even despite concurrent treatment with mood stabalizers!!!!!)
>
> The drug companies don't know that much. We're trusting them too much. If I had a right mind, I'd get out while I still have a chance.
>
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>You have a mood disorder with psychotic features it sounds like. The best option for that is ECT. ECT causes memory loss, but its better than being dead. The only thing that really works well for severe mood disorders with psychotic features is ECT.
Good luck and dont waste your time with experimental crap anymore. Just go get ECT.
Shalom
Posted by linkadge on November 17, 2004, at 11:41:35
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by Shalom34Israel on November 16, 2004, at 18:46:23
Here in canada, its easier to get a sex change than it is to have ECT done. I think i need like 3 doctors sigatures, and plus they rarely do bilateral.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on November 17, 2004, at 12:04:56
In reply to I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 15:54:39
Hello Linkadge, if some of your current symptoms are due to citalopram withdrawal you could slightly increase your dose of citalopram and attempt a more gradual withdrawal using the Cipramil drops.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on November 17, 2004, at 15:29:26
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by ed_uk on November 17, 2004, at 12:04:56
I suppose I could but if I'm still getting these symptoms after all this time, it fains me to think of just how much these drugs have a hold on me.
Linkadge
Posted by gardenergirl on November 18, 2004, at 23:01:14
In reply to Re: I'm brain dammaged and dying, posted by Shalom34Israel on November 16, 2004, at 18:46:23
Shalom34Israel,
Please consider reading this FAQ topic http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil in regards to your recent posts.Thanks in advance,
gg
This is the end of the thread.
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